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Giants, who were they not injured, were headed to HOF, iyo?

Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 10:23 am
We’ve discussed Bavaro in detail, so I’ll start with Justin Tuck.

Obviously, even if healthy, you are never quite sure, but still interestedin your opinions.

Tiki was never injured, so he doesn’t count in terms of this discussion.


And go.
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RE: RE: Alstott's fame..  
BillKo : 7/16/2019 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14499953 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499950 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


was probably equal parts his ability and equal parts Chris Berman....



Because we were in good hands with Alstott?


Haha...and Berman's sound effects of him banging into defenders.
Rodney Hampton??  
mushroom : 7/16/2019 3:51 pm : link
Great rookie year than a knee injury never quite the same. Maybe not HOF career but much better than it was
RE: Based on injuries  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/16/2019 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14500002 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:

Shockey - He was one of the best when healthy, he would be in if he had any full seasons, in his 10 full seasons he never played 16 games.



Here's a question for everyone. Was Shockey that good or did he benefit from playing in Peyton's TE friendly offense?
Bavaro  
Rick in Dallas : 7/16/2019 3:59 pm : link
Easy choice
RE: RE: Based on injuries  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14500037 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14500002 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:



Shockey - He was one of the best when healthy, he would be in if he had any full seasons, in his 10 full seasons he never played 16 games.





Here's a question for everyone. Was Shockey that good or did he benefit from playing in Peyton's TE friendly offense?


He was that good, imho
I think Shockey and Cruz are both viable answers  
Sonic Youth : 7/16/2019 4:15 pm : link
People forget how good Cruz was in '11. That was one of the best years by a slot WR ever in NFL history.
OP had a solid one also  
Sonic Youth : 7/16/2019 4:15 pm : link
with Tuck. Damn you Flozell
Bavaro, Sehorn and Cruz  
Torrag : 7/16/2019 4:18 pm : link
All were performing at elite levels when injuries struck and they were never the same.
David Wilson  
MM_in_NYC : 7/16/2019 5:14 pm : link
...joking.
RE: If Cruz gets consideration  
Scuzzlebutt : 7/16/2019 5:57 pm : link
In comment 14499892 Chris684 said:
Quote:
JPP needs to get some.

Who knows what kind of career JPP is able to put together without the back and the fireworks.

Sky was the limit.


JPP had HOF talent, but I never thought he had the heart to maximize the talent. I don’t think injuries were the only thing holding him back.
RE: David Wilson  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/16/2019 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14500088 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
...joking.


No clue how good David Wilson could be. He never ran behind a good offensive line. Right when the online started to really fall apart up the middle.

He managed to break one record before he was forced to retire.
Al Blozis  
Phil in Joisey : 7/16/2019 6:39 pm : link
Killed in WW II after only 23 or so games as a Giants
offensive tackle. At 6'6" and 250 pounds he was an incredible force often blocking two defensive linemen at a time. An All-Pro immediately upon joining the Giants from
Georgetown.
RE: RE: David Wilson  
MM_in_NYC : 7/16/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14500111 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14500088 MM_in_NYC said:


Quote:


...joking.



No clue how good David Wilson could be. He never ran behind a good offensive line. Right when the online started to really fall apart up the middle.

He managed to break one record before he was forced to retire.


Agreed. I was disappointed with the pick (Glenn was sitting right there) but Wilson's rookie year had a lot to get excited.
troy archer  
hankb1126 : 7/16/2019 7:45 pm : link
I did not see any mention of troy to this list but his career was definitely cut short do to injury
tucker frederickson  
hankb1126 : 7/16/2019 7:49 pm : link
tucker plated college ball when you had to play both offense and defense tucker was an all-American at 3 positions rb,lb and safety only played rb for giants maybe his best position was on defense
RE: Tucker Frederickson was extremely talented  
hankb1126 : 7/16/2019 7:52 pm : link
In comment 14499832 carpoon said:
Quote:
and looked good in his very short injury-filled career. He may have had a chance.



tucker's career was also cut short because he was offered a very lucrative job at allen &co where I still think he works for unless e retired
RE: troy archer  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/16/2019 8:10 pm : link
In comment 14500149 hankb1126 said:
Quote:
I did not see any mention of troy to this list but his career was definitely cut short do to injury


He was mentioned early on n One of my older cousins who played
College Football and coached told me he was the real deal. HOF who knows l, but he was expected to be a very very good player.
Probably not HOF level  
ron mexico : 7/16/2019 8:12 pm : link
But David Wilson could have been an exciting player if he could get the mental side down.

At the very least he could have been a pro bowl level return man.
Tuck  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/16/2019 8:15 pm : link
.
I always thought that Troy Archer was gonna be special.  
yatqb : 7/16/2019 9:55 pm : link
Terrific talent and a tragic, terrible loss.
Bahahaha....the legend of David Wilson continues  
Greg from LI : 7/16/2019 10:07 pm : link
.
RE: Bahahaha....the legend of David Wilson continues  
Gmen703 : 7/16/2019 10:16 pm : link
In comment 14500299 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Clint Sintim.
JPP was obvious  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/16/2019 10:48 pm : link
20 years from now I’ll explain how damn key he was to that chip.

Tuck and his ownage of Mankins will live forever in my mind.

Atleast we had Strahan because there were a couple of pass rushers we had who had the potential to be better.

Not to mention Jonas.
Osi?  
sb from NYT Forum : 7/17/2019 1:18 am : link
Once he returned to firm from his left knee injury in 2008, his right knee gave out in 2011. He had 53 sacks in his previous 5 years before his second injury.
Ron Johnson is the only one on a par with Bavaro,  
BlueLou'sBack : 7/17/2019 3:21 am : link
and maybe even above Bavaro on the basis of talent and his impact on the team overall. He was a tremendous RB in all facets of the game, and was injured in his 2nd year as a full time starter, IIRC?

Troy Archer - we didn't see much of him his career was so cut short by his premature death. But Howard Livingston, founder of Inside Football and a former Giant player himself, said Archer had a kind of power he'd seen only one other time among all the Giants he knew, and that other guy to have what Howard called 'natural power' a power that seemingly can't be explained by or developed by weight lifting training, the other guy with that natural power was Lawrence Taylor.

Shame we didn't get to see Archer develop.
RE: Troy Archer looked like he was going to be very good  
Ivan15 : 7/17/2019 6:36 am : link
In comment 14499694 Steve in ATL said:
Quote:
don't know that he would have been HOF but his early death was devastating in those Giants dark years of the 70s.


+1
Not sure about HOF  
Bubba : 7/17/2019 6:46 am : link
but Larry Jacobson showed a lot of promise until tearing up his foot
on broken glass.
RE: What about  
jvm52106 : 7/17/2019 8:09 am : link
In comment 14499827 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Joe Morris? No one expected him to replicate those two monster years, but it’s probably reasonable to believe he could have had a bunch of productive years on the ground were his career not hindered by injury.


I like Morris too but he didn't do much in 82 and 83. Came on in 84 and exploded in 85-86. From there was pretty average and was a one trick pony (no threat in the passing game).

What Hampton? The carries and injuries piled up but, if he didn't miss time early in 90 and the the rest of the playoff run in 90, he may be viewed quite differently. Reeves killed the guy.

I wonder what Terry Kinard's career would have been like without the knee injury in 86.
There are definitely a few "homer" choices here...  
EricJ : 7/17/2019 8:14 am : link
.
Jonas Seawright  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/17/2019 9:20 am : link
end thread....
Ron Johnson and Bavaro  
PatersonPlank : 7/17/2019 9:38 am : link
The rest are really stretching it.
MAYBE...Joe Morris...  
x meadowlander : 7/17/2019 10:08 am : link
...OJ Anderson was good, but Morris was a substantially better back. If Morris hadn't gotten hurt, I believe he'd have 2 rings, another 2 or 3,000 yds to his Giant career and almost a HOF by default.

MAYBE...TROY ARCHER. Not just the accident that killed him, the foot injury that messed up his last season. Felt like that kid was set to explode into a perennial pro bowler.

Also - I don't know that he would have made Hall of Fame, but Dan Lloyd was one of my favorite Giants when he got sick - a fine linebacker who was just coming into his own, I believed he would have been the eventual replacement for Brian Kelley.
Of guys whose careers were largely contemporary to Morris'  
Mad Mike : 7/17/2019 10:55 am : link
the HOF'ers are...

Marcus Allen
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders

There is no scenario where a healthier Joe Morris is the next name on that list.
Troy Archer would be my choice. Dan Lloyd no, but he was the player  
plato : 7/17/2019 11:04 am : link
leading the giants to convert to a 3/4. get the best players on field, and best lb’ers included Harry carson and spaceman lloyd.

another HOF candidate if uninsured might have bee Tucker Fredrickson. his knee injury and the slowly developing technology of sports medicine doomed his career.

😢then there is charlie Conerly, #42 who is kept from the HOF by WWII and his service in the Pacific, and a stupid head coach (according to Frank Gifford) who only let CC play 3/4 of every football game thus diminishing his stats. that crap about heinrich’s playing 1/4 to feel out ‘d’ was just idiocy, even then. i still think CC was best all time giant QB, except for Eli.
uninsured = uninsured, thank you apple  
plato : 7/17/2019 11:05 am : link
spell.
uninsured = uninjured thank you apple  
plato : 7/17/2019 11:06 am : link
spell.
RE: Of guys whose careers were largely contemporary to Morris'  
x meadowlander : 7/17/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14500590 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
the HOF'ers are...

Marcus Allen
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders

There is no scenario where a healthier Joe Morris is the next name on that list.
Between the 5 backs you list, I count 2 Super Bowl rings combined.

IF Morris had a fat 1990 campaign, and IF he had the same Super Bowl MVP success as OJ - MAYBE.


Part of Morris' problem was platooning time at RB with Rob Carpenter and Butch Woolfolk.
Wasn’t Bob Tucker on a HOF track?  
Big Blue '56 : 7/20/2019 10:05 am : link
I’m blanking on whether or not his career was derailed by injury or he simply faded when Tarkenton left
4 guys come to mind  
Matt M. : 7/20/2019 9:55 pm : link
Bavaro, Way, Hampton, and Tuck
Nothing to do with injury shortening his career but  
BlueLou'sBack : 7/20/2019 11:27 pm : link
why isn't Brad Van Pelt talked about more as an HOF candidate? From 1976 through 1980, five straight years, he was both a Pro Bowl player and a 1st or 2nd team All Pro - most of those 1st team All Pro selection when more than one organization named "All Pro" teams. 18 career ints over 11 seasons as a NYG OLB.

1973-1983 was a pretty darn bleak decade plus for the Giants, and Van Pelt was one of the teams' very few good players.
RE: Wasn’t Bob Tucker on a HOF track?  
steve in ky : 7/21/2019 12:04 am : link
In comment 14502828 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
I’m blanking on whether or not his career was derailed by injury or he simply faded when Tarkenton left


He doesn't get the credit he really should. For many seasons he was a key guy in our offense. But I don't remember him having any major injuries that impacting his career significantly. I seem to recall him wanting out of the organization at some point which I guess largely led to his being traded to Minnesota.
Another vote  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 7/26/2019 7:55 am : link
for Troy Archer, and one for Carl Banks who was the best OLB vs the run in the NFL for a few years. I, too, would vote for Charlie Conerly. He was a stud QB. Another very fine player who has yet to be mentioned -- though probably not HOF caliber -- is DL John Mendenhall. He was a bright light during some dark years.
Ron Johnson - arguably the greatest RB the Giants every had  
PatersonPlank : 7/26/2019 8:42 am : link
- First Giant to rush for 1,000, and did it twice (70 and 72). Remember this were 14 game seasons.
- 2 time Pro-Bowl player.
- Great receiver. In his 3 real seasons had 1,270, 1,514, and 1,633 total yds from scrimmage (again only 14 games). These are great stats even today
- The Giants teams sucked
- 4,300 rushing yds basically done in 3 seasons (those 2 seasons accounted for 3,100 of them)

Although he was in the league for 6 seasons, Johnson really only played 3 seasons. His first season was a rookie year with Cleveland, he got hurt in 1971, and 1974 and 1975 were injuries also. Then he retired before playing a down in 1976.

If it wasn't for injuries, lets saw he played 8 or so full seasons. At an average rushing of 1,100 per year, plus another 300 yds in receiving, thats a lot of stats.
Simms  
Torn Tendon : 7/26/2019 12:09 pm : link
If he played and won Super Bowl XXV, he'd be in the HoF.
Corey  
cjac : 7/26/2019 12:39 pm : link
Coleman
This thread is a list of every productive Giant not named Eli  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/26/2019 12:43 pm : link
since I've been a fan, lol
RE: WOW  
widmerseyebrow : 7/27/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14499916 djstat said:
Quote:
Charles Way at FB? No chance. Lorenzo Neal, Mike Alstott, Keith Byers all better then Way.


I tend to think Way is a little overrated around here (and I loved him), but its not hard to imagine him having a Keith Byars type career had he not gotten injured. Alstot and Neal were better than Way in their "specialties" (running and blocking respectively) but were really one dimensional.
Charles Way was overrated  
bc4life : 7/27/2019 2:32 pm : link
The plan to make him the feature back was absurd.

But to be fair the otehrs were not HOF. Neal great blocking back - Mike Anabolstott very good not HOF. Keith Byers - tough runner, very good blocker - best block ever thrown against a Giant (Peppers was on the receiving end)
not HOF  
bc4life : 7/27/2019 2:33 pm : link
but would have liked to see Ben Talley play at least a year or two.
RE: David Wilson  
santacruzom : 7/28/2019 2:13 am : link
In comment 14500088 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
...joking.


I was going to go with Jamaar Taylor.
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