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Giants, who were they not injured, were headed to HOF, iyo?

Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 10:23 am
Weíve discussed Bavaro in detail, so Iíll start with Justin Tuck.

Obviously, even if healthy, you are never quite sure, but still interestedin your opinions.

Tiki was never injured, so he doesnít count in terms of this discussion.


And go.
Jason Sehorn  
Ira : 7/16/2019 10:25 am : link
.
I think Tiki will make  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/16/2019 10:30 am : link
it eventually.

Sehorn went from amazing, to avg. after the knee injury.
Hard to say  
Greg from LI : 7/16/2019 10:30 am : link
There are a lot of player who play at a HOF level for a few years, but it's difficult to say who could keep it up for the long term.

Hakeem Nicks got hurt in his fourth season, when he was 24 years old. Prior to that season, he was 10th in receptions through age 23, 6th in receiving yardage, and 4th in TDs. Could he have been a HOF worthy player if he had stayed healthy and maintained that level of production? Maybe, but who knows if he would have done that?
Troy Archer looked like he was going to be very good  
Steve in ATL : 7/16/2019 10:30 am : link
don't know that he would have been HOF but his early death was devastating in those Giants dark years of the 70s.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/16/2019 10:32 am : link
Bavaro is the obvious choice.
Maybe Chris Snee?  
Greg from LI : 7/16/2019 10:33 am : link
Injuries greatly diminished his play around age 28, and he was out of football by 31.
OBJ?  
Moondawg : 7/16/2019 10:33 am : link
?
Maybe Plax?  
DC Gmen Fan : 7/16/2019 10:34 am : link
had he not shot himself?
RE: Maybe Chris Snee?  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14499700 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Injuries greatly diminished his play around age 28, and he was out of football by 31.


I think Snee is an excellent choice
RE: Maybe Chris Snee?  
widmerseyebrow : 7/16/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14499700 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Injuries greatly diminished his play around age 28, and he was out of football by 31.


That's a good choice. He was at the top of his position for a short period and then fell off substantially with injuries. He just didn't achieve the longevity that great guards do. If you projected a "normal" career arc of a dominant guard he'd be talked about in the same vein as some of the recent ones that are going to get in.
RE: Maybe Plax?  
Ben in Tampa : 7/16/2019 10:42 am : link
In comment 14499704 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
had he not shot himself?


Plax was breaking down physically even before the gunshot, so I dunno if he would had enough top years left to get in.
Plax, Bavaro and Sehorn  
MotownGIANTS : 7/16/2019 10:49 am : link
in no particular order.
Victor Cruz  
NephilimGiants : 7/16/2019 10:52 am : link
.
Jpp also  
NephilimGiants : 7/16/2019 10:53 am : link
.
I think some  
pjcas18 : 7/16/2019 10:53 am : link
of you underestimate how high the bar is for the NFL HOF.

Bavaro I agree. But consider there are just 9 TE's in the HOF. Period. Ever. Bavaro could have made it 10 if he wasn't injured, but wanted to add that for context.

But Snee?

longshot at best. He went to 4 pro-bowls, but was only once an all-pro.

There are very few guards in the HOF at all and he does not measure up to them IMO - even if he were healthy longer.

Larry Allen: 11 pro-bowls, 6 time all-pro
John Hannah: 9 pro-bowls 7 time all-pro
Will Shields: 11 pro-bowls, 2 time all-pro
Mike Munchak: 9 pro-bowls, 2 time all-pro

There are only 46 modern era OL in Canton total (tackles, guards, and centers). Snee has two rings, which IMO helps his case, but he does not belong in Canton even if he were healthy.

Good player, not a HOFer.

Only Bavaro from my lifetime had a chance.
The two that..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/16/2019 10:54 am : link
come to mind are Bavaro and Simms. Simms is a double-edged one - he lost stats early in his career to injuries and then lost the chance for a 2nd ring vs. Buffalo. He gets that ring by playing and he's more than likely in.
Plax?  
pjcas18 : 7/16/2019 10:55 am : link
doesn't sniff Canton with perfect health for another 20 years.

People need to look at the WR's in Canton:

Plaxico was a good player, but he's not close to these guys statistically (at least not the ones I saw play)

Modern Era: Wide Receivers (27)
Lance Alworth 1962-1972
Raymond Berry 1955-1967
Fred Biletnikoff 1965-1978
Tim Brown 1988-2004
Cris Carter 1987-2002
Tom Fears 1948-1956
Marvin Harrison 1996-2008
Bob Hayes 1965-1975
Elroy Hirsch (also HB) 1946-1956
Michael Irvin 1988-1999
Charlie Joiner 1969-1986
Steve Largent 1976-1989
Dante Lavelli 1946-1956
James Lofton 1978-1993
Don Maynard 1958, 1960-1973
Tommy McDonald 1957-1968
Bobby Mitchell (also HB) 1958-1968
Art Monk 1980-1995
Randy Moss 1998-2012
Terrell Owens 1996-2010
Pete Pihos 1947-1955
Andre Reed 1985-2000
Jerry Rice 1985-2000
John Stallworth 1974-1987
Lynn Swann 1974-1982
Charley Taylor (also HB) 1964-1975, 1977
Paul Warfield 1964-1977
Agree with pj's position  
JonC : 7/16/2019 10:57 am : link
Cruz had a shot, and certainly Bavaro.
pj, if Snee had been healthy, he would have made at least two or three  
Greg from LI : 7/16/2019 11:06 am : link
more Pro Bowls and likely gotten at least one more All Pro nod.

2011 is when his play started declining noticeably. He was 29 years old that year. He had made three straight Pro Bowls and one All Pro at that point. Will Shields had made 5 Pro Bowls, but no All Pro at that point. Munchak, four Pro Bowl and one All Pro.

The great guards often have long careers and stay productive well into their 30s. Didn't happen with Snee. If it had, he might have had a shot, that was what I was saying.
Jumbo Elliot  
HugeS : 7/16/2019 11:10 am : link
Surprised nobody mentioned Jumbo. Bavaro arguably deserves the HOF even with the shortened career but Jumbo Elliot was probably the most talented offensive lineman to ever put on a Giants uniform. Unfortunately serious back problems really began derailing him in 1990. He still came back and put on one of the most dominant performances by a tackle in Super Bowl history against Bruce Smith no less. He was the unsung MVP of Super Bowl 25. One of the best when he was healthy but like Snee his body broke down early and often and several back surgeries later he was never the same player again.
Mark Bavaro  
BillKo : 7/16/2019 11:25 am : link
Sehorn just looked like he was ready to take off as a superstar.

But Bavaro is the obvious choice, would have went down as one of the best two ways TEs in the history of the game.
RE: pj, if Snee had been healthy, he would have made at least two or three  
pjcas18 : 7/16/2019 11:29 am : link
In comment 14499776 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
more Pro Bowls and likely gotten at least one more All Pro nod.

2011 is when his play started declining noticeably. He was 29 years old that year. He had made three straight Pro Bowls and one All Pro at that point. Will Shields had made 5 Pro Bowls, but no All Pro at that point. Munchak, four Pro Bowl and one All Pro.

The great guards often have long careers and stay productive well into their 30s. Didn't happen with Snee. If it had, he might have had a shot, that was what I was saying.


I guess, it's an opinion question so other opinions are as correct as mine, but I don't view Snee as a potential HOFer.

Cruz should have been on my list, started out like a lightning bolt. but faded just as quickly - due to injury.


Yeah, assuming he was productive at his age, a young Simms  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 11:32 am : link
who was killed by effectively being MIA his first 5 years, would most likely have been a lock for the Hall.
At the time, I thought Hakeem Nicks was on that kind of trajectory.  
81_Great_Dane : 7/16/2019 11:33 am : link
He hadn't had the record-breaking season yet but seemed to still be improving when the injuries hit. Cruz was really good but I didn't think he was a HOF-level performer.

Agree that Bavaro is the obvious choice, but I don't know how Bavaro could have avoided injury, given his style of play.
What about  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 11:35 am : link
Joe Morris? No one expected him to replicate those two monster years, but itís probably reasonable to believe he could have had a bunch of productive years on the ground were his career not hindered by injury.
Tucker Frederickson was extremely talented  
carpoon : 7/16/2019 11:35 am : link
and looked good in his very short injury-filled career. He may have had a chance.
Simms missed a lot of time early in his career...  
BillKo : 7/16/2019 11:35 am : link
...but also was hurt a lot even in his prime/glory years.

He only played full seasons in 84,85,86, and 93.

That's just four seasons.
Bavaro is obvious  
mfsd : 7/16/2019 11:39 am : link
I think Carl Banks too. He played a full career, but if memory serves injuries kinda limited him for his last few years with the Giants and Browns.

Banks at 1986 playoff level was no doubt Hall of Fame caliber
RE: Simms missed a lot of time early in his career...  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 11:41 am : link
In comment 14499833 BillKo said:
Quote:
...but also was hurt a lot even in his prime/glory years.

He only played full seasons in 84,85,86, and 93.

That's just four seasons.


Fair point
Anyone think Charles Way could have made it as a FB  
Snacks : 7/16/2019 11:42 am : link
if he was able to keep going? I agree with those who think Sehorn could have made it.
I thought Will Peterson was becoming an  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 11:45 am : link
elite corner before his back wrecked a promising career at a still very young age
Don't sleep on Kenny Phillips  
BillyM : 7/16/2019 11:51 am : link
That kid was very very good before a massive micro fracture injury.

If he stayed healthy, with a ring or two, he would have had a shot
some of the projections/names on here....  
BillKo : 7/16/2019 12:04 pm : link
....are somewhat questionable IMO. But that's why we talk about it!

Just as a reference, Mark Collins was one of the best corners I've seen - coverage and tackling. And while never hurt, he never got a sniff of HOF mention.
If Cruz gets consideration  
Chris684 : 7/16/2019 12:14 pm : link
JPP needs to get some.

Who knows what kind of career JPP is able to put together without the back and the fireworks.

Sky was the limit.
Ron Johnson  
HomerJones45 : 7/16/2019 12:17 pm : link
Great running back: run with power and speed and could catch like a wideout.

I'll say it. Frederickson was not that good and was a bust as a #1 pick in the entire draft. Ernie Koy was a better player but Tuck got good press and was one of Wellington's favorites because he'd hang at Toots Shors with the boys.

The next four players chosen: Ken Willard who played 9 years ran for 6500 yards and caught 277 passes for the Niners, Dick Butkus, Gayle Sayers and Craig Morton.

The Giants draft that year was comical. No second round pick. In the third round, the Giants take Chuck Mercein and the immortal kicker Bob Timberlake. In the 4th round, they take another immortal, Henry Carr. And then in the 5th round they take a punter Frank Lambert.
RE: some of the projections/names on here....  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14499884 BillKo said:
Quote:
....are somewhat questionable IMO. But that's why we talk about it!

Just as a reference, Mark Collins was one of the best corners I've seen - coverage and tackling. And while never hurt, he never got a sniff of HOF mention.


Bill, thatís why weíre not mentioning Tiki as he was healthy
RE: Ron Johnson  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14499894 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
Great running back: run with power and speed and could catch like a wideout.

I'll say it. Frederickson was not that good and was a bust as a #1 pick in the entire draft. Ernie Koy was a better player but Tuck got good press and was one of Wellington's favorites because he'd hang at Toots Shors with the boys.

The next four players chosen: Ken Willard who played 9 years ran for 6500 yards and caught 277 passes for the Niners, Dick Butkus, Gayle Sayers and Craig Morton.

The Giants draft that year was comical. No second round pick. In the third round, the Giants take Chuck Mercein and the immortal kicker Bob Timberlake. In the 4th round, they take another immortal, Henry Carr. And then in the 5th round they take a punter Frank Lambert.


Not taking Sayers or Butkus over Frederickson was beyond egregious and incompetent, imv
RE: Anyone think Charles Way could have made it as a FB  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/16/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14499847 Snacks said:
Quote:
if he was able to keep going? I agree with those who think Sehorn could have made it.


Most likely not due positional bias but he was a fucking monster as a FB and a very good runner. And Iíll agree w Seahorn as well.
A lot of the guys mentioned were injured on the back half of their  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/16/2019 12:26 pm : link
career already past their primes. The two Giants that come to mind that were injured that had a chance to build HOF careers in my lifetime were Cruz and Sehorn. Just unbelievable before their injuries cut them short. Sehorn especially, guy never played corner before the NFL and his 3rd and 4th seasons were tremendous. Just a ridiculous athlete.
I'd have..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/16/2019 12:49 pm : link
to put Nicks ahead of Cruz.

Cruz was a very good Wr, but Nicks was absolutely brilliant before he was injured. With his hands, if he had any speed left after the Compartment Syndrome impact - he'd probably have been a middling guy.

Just terrible he was done by 24.
WOW  
djstat : 7/16/2019 12:49 pm : link
Hall of Fame is just that...Hall of Fame...not Hall of Good.

Sehorn had one great year in '97 before his knee injury. Hard to say he would have continued being great even without injury.

Snee was Hall of Good. He was never dominant the way a Larry Allen was or a Mike Munchek was. Still a great player but IMO not HOF.

Charles Way at FB? No chance. Lorenzo Neal, Mike Alstott, Keith Byers all better then Way.

Nicks is legit. He was amazing his first three years and then his body fell apart.

Cruz - Had an amazing 2011. A good 2012. An ok 2013. Wasn't doing much prior to injury in '14. I think it is ridiculous to say he had a shot at the HOF.
Cruz has 0 shot at the HOF  
dep026 : 7/16/2019 12:51 pm : link
Come on...

The one guy not mentioned is an interesting one.

Jeremy Shockey.
RE: Cruz has 0 shot at the HOF  
pjcas18 : 7/16/2019 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14499918 dep026 said:
Quote:
Come on...

The one guy not mentioned is an interesting one.

Jeremy Shockey.


Of course he has no shot, what BB '56 was saying was who had a shot if they didn't get injured.

which is why so many people suggest Bavaro as the obvious choice.

Shockey has no HOF chance IMO and not sure it's injuries, his career just didn't pan out as well as it started. He pretty much peaked as a rookie (other than not getting in the end zone).
RE: RE: Cruz has 0 shot at the HOF  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14499924 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499918 dep026 said:


Quote:


Come on...

The one guy not mentioned is an interesting one.

Jeremy Shockey.



Of course he has no shot, what BB '56 was saying was who had a shot if they didn't get injured.

which is why so many people suggest Bavaro as the obvious choice.

Shockey has no HOF chance IMO and not sure it's injuries, his career just didn't pan out as well as it started. He pretty much peaked as a rookie (other than not getting in the end zone).


And that fucking dropped pass in the EZ against the Niners in the choke game, his rookie year
Hmmm  
Thegratefulhead : 7/16/2019 1:03 pm : link
Sehorn
Bavaro
Simms
Shockey was good  
dep026 : 7/16/2019 1:04 pm : link
For 65-70 catches a year. If healthy and playing 12-13 years he would have gotten over 900 receptions. I just donít think he was ever healthy.
Sehorn for sure  
BillT : 7/16/2019 1:07 pm : link
Could have been a 10 time pro bowler and been All Pro a number of times as well.

How about Nicks. Could he have been a Chris Carter type?
JPP posted a DPOY type season  
Chris684 : 7/16/2019 1:12 pm : link
in just his 2nd year in the league.

Then the back set in and ultimately the fireworks but he was still productive.
If Shockey catches that pass vs. SF  
PetesHereNow : 7/16/2019 1:16 pm : link
Does that put the game out of reach? Do we go on to beat the Bucs?

Is Fassel still fired in December 03? Do they draft Eli in 04? Itís an interesting hypothetical. But one could argue that if he catches that pass, the history of the last 15 years may be quite different.
RE: WOW  
Snacks : 7/16/2019 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14499916 djstat said:
Quote:
Hall of Fame is just that...Hall of Fame...not Hall of Good.

Sehorn had one great year in '97 before his knee injury. Hard to say he would have continued being great even without injury.

Snee was Hall of Good. He was never dominant the way a Larry Allen was or a Mike Munchek was. Still a great player but IMO not HOF.

Charles Way at FB? No chance. Lorenzo Neal, Mike Alstott, Keith Byers all better then Way.

Nicks is legit. He was amazing his first three years and then his body fell apart.

Cruz - Had an amazing 2011. A good 2012. An ok 2013. Wasn't doing much prior to injury in '14. I think it is ridiculous to say he had a shot at the HOF.


With respect re Lorenzo Neal i disagree:

Neal played 16 years and had 226 rushes for 807 yards 6 TDs.

Way played 5 years and had 337 rushes for 1,356 yards and 10 TDs.

Had Way stayed healthy he would have put up a greater career than Neal. This doesn't even count receptions which Way would have had more of. JMO
Here we go  
Rong5611 : 7/16/2019 1:22 pm : link
These 3 retired Giants that are the only ones close to consideration for the HOF. IMO- Banks, Bavaro, Tiki (maybe). Eli makes it, eventually, when the time comes - those playoff runs were brilliant.

-- Banks was really good. All Decade Team for the 1980's. It could be argued that he belongs.

-- Bavaro, if he stayed healthy he would have made it. No question about that. He was awesome. Injuries took their toll.

-- Tiki was good, generated alot of yards both rushing and receiving. One of the better RB's during his time. Maybe if he's on the 2007 SB team, he makes it. But, he wasn't.

-- Sehorn was good, but not HOF good, even when he was healthy. Made a foolish mistake by returning that kick in the pre-season.

-- Simms was really good, still has the best SB performance of all time. He led his team to 2. Yes, he got hurt late in the 1990 season, but they were 10-1 when that happened. They aren't in position to go all the way without his performance. But, his stats aren't good enough overall for the HOF.


Charles Way in 1997 was better than Alstott ever was  
Greg from LI : 7/16/2019 1:34 pm : link
Especially as a lead blocker. Alstott really wasn't much of a blocker despite his rep.
Alstott's fame..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/16/2019 1:36 pm : link
was probably equal parts his ability and equal parts Chris Berman....
RE: Alstott's fame..  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 1:39 pm : link
In comment 14499950 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
was probably equal parts his ability and equal parts Chris Berman....


Because we were in good hands with Alstott?
RE: WOW  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/16/2019 1:55 pm : link
In comment 14499916 djstat said:
Quote:
Hall of Fame is just that...Hall of Fame...not Hall of Good.

Sehorn had one great year in '97 before his knee injury. Hard to say he would have continued being great even without injury.

Snee was Hall of Good. He was never dominant the way a Larry Allen was or a Mike Munchek was. Still a great player but IMO not HOF.

Charles Way at FB? No chance. Lorenzo Neal, Mike Alstott, Keith Byers all better then Way.

Nicks is legit. He was amazing his first three years and then his body fell apart.

Cruz - Had an amazing 2011. A good 2012. An ok 2013. Wasn't doing much prior to injury in '14. I think it is ridiculous to say he had a shot at the HOF.


Not one of those guys was better than Way as a blocker. Neal maybe even but not better. And he was a better runner and receiver IMO. Byers? If not for his college rep no one would even know who he was as a pro years later. Alstott was very good but healthy Iíd take Way as a FB. Their blocking wasnít close.

Is you can say no to the HOF but those three werenít better
Bavaro yes  
Jimmy Googs : 7/16/2019 2:05 pm : link
Some of the others mentioned (Sehorn Snee and WRs) give a slight pause when thinking through but ultimately are a ďnoĒ.

Only Bavaro imv goes on...
Based on injuries  
Rudy5757 : 7/16/2019 2:45 pm : link
Bavaro was an absolute monster
Simms was a great QB when healthy and imo better than Eli
Charles Way - before he got injured he was a great 2 way FB
JPP for sure, before his back and his hand he could have been a HOFer
Nicks - He was much better than Cruz ever was
Sehorn - he was just breaking out before the knee
Armstead - had early injuries 1st 3 years then went on to 5 straight pro bowls. If he had the early health and longevity hes probably in
Shockey - He was one of the best when healthy, he would be in if he had any full seasons, in his 10 full seasons he never played 16 games.

Guys mentioned above that I disagree with
Snee - was very good, I guess a little hard to judge an OL but I never felt he was the best ever
Cruz - a fan favorite and a good WR too many drops and didn't do well when he was the #1 target. He was fading before the injuries


RE: RE: Alstott's fame..  
BillKo : 7/16/2019 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14499953 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499950 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


was probably equal parts his ability and equal parts Chris Berman....



Because we were in good hands with Alstott?


Haha...and Berman's sound effects of him banging into defenders.
Rodney Hampton??  
mushroom : 7/16/2019 3:51 pm : link
Great rookie year than a knee injury never quite the same. Maybe not HOF career but much better than it was
RE: Based on injuries  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/16/2019 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14500002 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:

Shockey - He was one of the best when healthy, he would be in if he had any full seasons, in his 10 full seasons he never played 16 games.



Here's a question for everyone. Was Shockey that good or did he benefit from playing in Peyton's TE friendly offense?
Bavaro  
Rick in Dallas : 7/16/2019 3:59 pm : link
Easy choice
RE: RE: Based on injuries  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2019 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14500037 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14500002 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:



Shockey - He was one of the best when healthy, he would be in if he had any full seasons, in his 10 full seasons he never played 16 games.





Here's a question for everyone. Was Shockey that good or did he benefit from playing in Peyton's TE friendly offense?


He was that good, imho
I think Shockey and Cruz are both viable answers  
Sonic Youth : 7/16/2019 4:15 pm : link
People forget how good Cruz was in '11. That was one of the best years by a slot WR ever in NFL history.
OP had a solid one also  
Sonic Youth : 7/16/2019 4:15 pm : link
with Tuck. Damn you Flozell
Bavaro, Sehorn and Cruz  
Torrag : 7/16/2019 4:18 pm : link
All were performing at elite levels when injuries struck and they were never the same.
David Wilson  
MM_in_NYC : 7/16/2019 5:14 pm : link
...joking.
RE: If Cruz gets consideration  
Scuzzlebutt : 7/16/2019 5:57 pm : link
In comment 14499892 Chris684 said:
Quote:
JPP needs to get some.

Who knows what kind of career JPP is able to put together without the back and the fireworks.

Sky was the limit.


JPP had HOF talent, but I never thought he had the heart to maximize the talent. I donít think injuries were the only thing holding him back.
RE: David Wilson  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/16/2019 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14500088 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
...joking.


No clue how good David Wilson could be. He never ran behind a good offensive line. Right when the online started to really fall apart up the middle.

He managed to break one record before he was forced to retire.
Al Blozis  
Phil in Joisey : 7/16/2019 6:39 pm : link
Killed in WW II after only 23 or so games as a Giants
offensive tackle. At 6'6" and 250 pounds he was an incredible force often blocking two defensive linemen at a time. An All-Pro immediately upon joining the Giants from
Georgetown.
RE: RE: David Wilson  
MM_in_NYC : 7/16/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14500111 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14500088 MM_in_NYC said:


Quote:


...joking.



No clue how good David Wilson could be. He never ran behind a good offensive line. Right when the online started to really fall apart up the middle.

He managed to break one record before he was forced to retire.


Agreed. I was disappointed with the pick (Glenn was sitting right there) but Wilson's rookie year had a lot to get excited.
troy archer  
hankb1126 : 7/16/2019 7:45 pm : link
I did not see any mention of troy to this list but his career was definitely cut short do to injury
tucker frederickson  
hankb1126 : 7/16/2019 7:49 pm : link
tucker plated college ball when you had to play both offense and defense tucker was an all-American at 3 positions rb,lb and safety only played rb for giants maybe his best position was on defense
RE: Tucker Frederickson was extremely talented  
hankb1126 : 7/16/2019 7:52 pm : link
In comment 14499832 carpoon said:
Quote:
and looked good in his very short injury-filled career. He may have had a chance.



tucker's career was also cut short because he was offered a very lucrative job at allen &co where I still think he works for unless e retired
RE: troy archer  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/16/2019 8:10 pm : link
In comment 14500149 hankb1126 said:
Quote:
I did not see any mention of troy to this list but his career was definitely cut short do to injury


He was mentioned early on n One of my older cousins who played
College Football and coached told me he was the real deal. HOF who knows l, but he was expected to be a very very good player.
Probably not HOF level  
ron mexico : 7/16/2019 8:12 pm : link
But David Wilson could have been an exciting player if he could get the mental side down.

At the very least he could have been a pro bowl level return man.
Tuck  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/16/2019 8:15 pm : link
.
I always thought that Troy Archer was gonna be special.  
yatqb : 7/16/2019 9:55 pm : link
Terrific talent and a tragic, terrible loss.
Bahahaha....the legend of David Wilson continues  
Greg from LI : 7/16/2019 10:07 pm : link
.
RE: Bahahaha....the legend of David Wilson continues  
Gmen703 : 7/16/2019 10:16 pm : link
In comment 14500299 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Clint Sintim.
JPP was obvious  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/16/2019 10:48 pm : link
20 years from now Iíll explain how damn key he was to that chip.

Tuck and his ownage of Mankins will live forever in my mind.

Atleast we had Strahan because there were a couple of pass rushers we had who had the potential to be better.

Not to mention Jonas.
Osi?  
sb from NYT Forum : 7/17/2019 1:18 am : link
Once he returned to firm from his left knee injury in 2008, his right knee gave out in 2011. He had 53 sacks in his previous 5 years before his second injury.
Ron Johnson is the only one on a par with Bavaro,  
BlueLou'sBack : 7/17/2019 3:21 am : link
and maybe even above Bavaro on the basis of talent and his impact on the team overall. He was a tremendous RB in all facets of the game, and was injured in his 2nd year as a full time starter, IIRC?

Troy Archer - we didn't see much of him his career was so cut short by his premature death. But Howard Livingston, founder of Inside Football and a former Giant player himself, said Archer had a kind of power he'd seen only one other time among all the Giants he knew, and that other guy to have what Howard called 'natural power' a power that seemingly can't be explained by or developed by weight lifting training, the other guy with that natural power was Lawrence Taylor.

Shame we didn't get to see Archer develop.
RE: Troy Archer looked like he was going to be very good  
Ivan15 : 7/17/2019 6:36 am : link
In comment 14499694 Steve in ATL said:
Quote:
don't know that he would have been HOF but his early death was devastating in those Giants dark years of the 70s.


+1
Not sure about HOF  
Bubba : 7/17/2019 6:46 am : link
but Larry Jacobson showed a lot of promise until tearing up his foot
on broken glass.
RE: What about  
jvm52106 : 7/17/2019 8:09 am : link
In comment 14499827 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Joe Morris? No one expected him to replicate those two monster years, but itís probably reasonable to believe he could have had a bunch of productive years on the ground were his career not hindered by injury.


I like Morris too but he didn't do much in 82 and 83. Came on in 84 and exploded in 85-86. From there was pretty average and was a one trick pony (no threat in the passing game).

What Hampton? The carries and injuries piled up but, if he didn't miss time early in 90 and the the rest of the playoff run in 90, he may be viewed quite differently. Reeves killed the guy.

I wonder what Terry Kinard's career would have been like without the knee injury in 86.
There are definitely a few "homer" choices here...  
EricJ : 7/17/2019 8:14 am : link
.
Jonas Seawright  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/17/2019 9:20 am : link
end thread....
Ron Johnson and Bavaro  
PatersonPlank : 7/17/2019 9:38 am : link
The rest are really stretching it.
MAYBE...Joe Morris...  
x meadowlander : 7/17/2019 10:08 am : link
...OJ Anderson was good, but Morris was a substantially better back. If Morris hadn't gotten hurt, I believe he'd have 2 rings, another 2 or 3,000 yds to his Giant career and almost a HOF by default.

MAYBE...TROY ARCHER. Not just the accident that killed him, the foot injury that messed up his last season. Felt like that kid was set to explode into a perennial pro bowler.

Also - I don't know that he would have made Hall of Fame, but Dan Lloyd was one of my favorite Giants when he got sick - a fine linebacker who was just coming into his own, I believed he would have been the eventual replacement for Brian Kelley.
Of guys whose careers were largely contemporary to Morris'  
Mad Mike : 7/17/2019 10:55 am : link
the HOF'ers are...

Marcus Allen
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders

There is no scenario where a healthier Joe Morris is the next name on that list.
Troy Archer would be my choice. Dan Lloyd no, but he was the player  
plato : 7/17/2019 11:04 am : link
leading the giants to convert to a 3/4. get the best players on field, and best lbíers included Harry carson and spaceman lloyd.

another HOF candidate if uninsured might have bee Tucker Fredrickson. his knee injury and the slowly developing technology of sports medicine doomed his career.

😢then there is charlie Conerly, #42 who is kept from the HOF by WWII and his service in the Pacific, and a stupid head coach (according to Frank Gifford) who only let CC play 3/4 of every football game thus diminishing his stats. that crap about heinrichís playing 1/4 to feel out Ďdí was just idiocy, even then. i still think CC was best all time giant QB, except for Eli.
uninsured = uninsured, thank you apple  
plato : 7/17/2019 11:05 am : link
spell.
uninsured = uninjured thank you apple  
plato : 7/17/2019 11:06 am : link
spell.
RE: Of guys whose careers were largely contemporary to Morris'  
x meadowlander : 7/17/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14500590 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
the HOF'ers are...

Marcus Allen
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders

There is no scenario where a healthier Joe Morris is the next name on that list.
Between the 5 backs you list, I count 2 Super Bowl rings combined.

IF Morris had a fat 1990 campaign, and IF he had the same Super Bowl MVP success as OJ - MAYBE.


Part of Morris' problem was platooning time at RB with Rob Carpenter and Butch Woolfolk.
Wasnít Bob Tucker on a HOF track?  
Big Blue '56 : 7/20/2019 10:05 am : link
Iím blanking on whether or not his career was derailed by injury or he simply faded when Tarkenton left
4 guys come to mind  
Matt M. : 7/20/2019 9:55 pm : link
Bavaro, Way, Hampton, and Tuck
Nothing to do with injury shortening his career but  
BlueLou'sBack : 7/20/2019 11:27 pm : link
why isn't Brad Van Pelt talked about more as an HOF candidate? From 1976 through 1980, five straight years, he was both a Pro Bowl player and a 1st or 2nd team All Pro - most of those 1st team All Pro selection when more than one organization named "All Pro" teams. 18 career ints over 11 seasons as a NYG OLB.

1973-1983 was a pretty darn bleak decade plus for the Giants, and Van Pelt was one of the teams' very few good players.
RE: Wasnít Bob Tucker on a HOF track?  
steve in ky : 7/21/2019 12:04 am : link
In comment 14502828 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Iím blanking on whether or not his career was derailed by injury or he simply faded when Tarkenton left


He doesn't get the credit he really should. For many seasons he was a key guy in our offense. But I don't remember him having any major injuries that impacting his career significantly. I seem to recall him wanting out of the organization at some point which I guess largely led to his being traded to Minnesota.
Another vote  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 7/26/2019 7:55 am : link
for Troy Archer, and one for Carl Banks who was the best OLB vs the run in the NFL for a few years. I, too, would vote for Charlie Conerly. He was a stud QB. Another very fine player who has yet to be mentioned -- though probably not HOF caliber -- is DL John Mendenhall. He was a bright light during some dark years.
Ron Johnson - arguably the greatest RB the Giants every had  
PatersonPlank : 7/26/2019 8:42 am : link
- First Giant to rush for 1,000, and did it twice (70 and 72). Remember this were 14 game seasons.
- 2 time Pro-Bowl player.
- Great receiver. In his 3 real seasons had 1,270, 1,514, and 1,633 total yds from scrimmage (again only 14 games). These are great stats even today
- The Giants teams sucked
- 4,300 rushing yds basically done in 3 seasons (those 2 seasons accounted for 3,100 of them)

Although he was in the league for 6 seasons, Johnson really only played 3 seasons. His first season was a rookie year with Cleveland, he got hurt in 1971, and 1974 and 1975 were injuries also. Then he retired before playing a down in 1976.

If it wasn't for injuries, lets saw he played 8 or so full seasons. At an average rushing of 1,100 per year, plus another 300 yds in receiving, thats a lot of stats.
Simms  
Torn Tendon : 7/26/2019 12:09 pm : link
If he played and won Super Bowl XXV, he'd be in the HoF.
Corey  
cjac : 7/26/2019 12:39 pm : link
Coleman
This thread is a list of every productive Giant not named Eli  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/26/2019 12:43 pm : link
since I've been a fan, lol
RE: WOW  
widmerseyebrow : 7/27/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14499916 djstat said:
Quote:
Charles Way at FB? No chance. Lorenzo Neal, Mike Alstott, Keith Byers all better then Way.


I tend to think Way is a little overrated around here (and I loved him), but its not hard to imagine him having a Keith Byars type career had he not gotten injured. Alstot and Neal were better than Way in their "specialties" (running and blocking respectively) but were really one dimensional.
Charles Way was overrated  
bc4life : 7/27/2019 2:32 pm : link
The plan to make him the feature back was absurd.

But to be fair the otehrs were not HOF. Neal great blocking back - Mike Anabolstott very good not HOF. Keith Byers - tough runner, very good blocker - best block ever thrown against a Giant (Peppers was on the receiving end)
not HOF  
bc4life : 7/27/2019 2:33 pm : link
but would have liked to see Ben Talley play at least a year or two.
RE: David Wilson  
santacruzom : 7/28/2019 2:13 am : link
In comment 14500088 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
...joking.


I was going to go with Jamaar Taylor.
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