These 3 retired Giants that are the only ones close to consideration for the HOF. IMO- Banks, Bavaro, Tiki (maybe). Eli makes it, eventually, when the time comes - those playoff runs were brilliant.
-- Banks was really good. All Decade Team for the 1980's. It could be argued that he belongs.
-- Bavaro, if he stayed healthy he would have made it. No question about that. He was awesome. Injuries took their toll.
-- Tiki was good, generated alot of yards both rushing and receiving. One of the better RB's during his time. Maybe if he's on the 2007 SB team, he makes it. But, he wasn't.
-- Sehorn was good, but not HOF good, even when he was healthy. Made a foolish mistake by returning that kick in the pre-season.
-- Simms was really good, still has the best SB performance of all time. He led his team to 2. Yes, he got hurt late in the 1990 season, but they were 10-1 when that happened. They aren't in position to go all the way without his performance. But, his stats aren't good enough overall for the HOF.
Charles Way in 1997 was better than Alstott ever was Â
Hall of Fame is just that...Hall of Fame...not Hall of Good.
Sehorn had one great year in '97 before his knee injury. Hard to say he would have continued being great even without injury.
Snee was Hall of Good. He was never dominant the way a Larry Allen was or a Mike Munchek was. Still a great player but IMO not HOF.
Charles Way at FB? No chance. Lorenzo Neal, Mike Alstott, Keith Byers all better then Way.
Nicks is legit. He was amazing his first three years and then his body fell apart.
Cruz - Had an amazing 2011. A good 2012. An ok 2013. Wasn't doing much prior to injury in '14. I think it is ridiculous to say he had a shot at the HOF.
Not one of those guys was better than Way as a blocker. Neal maybe even but not better. And he was a better runner and receiver IMO. Byers? If not for his college rep no one would even know who he was as a pro years later. Alstott was very good but healthy I’d take Way as a FB. Their blocking wasn’t close.
Is you can say no to the HOF but those three weren’t better
Bavaro was an absolute monster
Simms was a great QB when healthy and imo better than Eli
Charles Way - before he got injured he was a great 2 way FB
JPP for sure, before his back and his hand he could have been a HOFer
Nicks - He was much better than Cruz ever was
Sehorn - he was just breaking out before the knee
Armstead - had early injuries 1st 3 years then went on to 5 straight pro bowls. If he had the early health and longevity hes probably in
Shockey - He was one of the best when healthy, he would be in if he had any full seasons, in his 10 full seasons he never played 16 games.
Guys mentioned above that I disagree with
Snee - was very good, I guess a little hard to judge an OL but I never felt he was the best ever
Cruz - a fan favorite and a good WR too many drops and didn't do well when he was the #1 target. He was fading before the injuries
Killed in WW II after only 23 or so games as a Giants
offensive tackle. At 6'6" and 250 pounds he was an incredible force often blocking two defensive linemen at a time. An All-Pro immediately upon joining the Giants from
Georgetown.
tucker plated college ball when you had to play both offense and defense tucker was an all-American at 3 positions rb,lb and safety only played rb for giants maybe his best position was on defense
I did not see any mention of troy to this list but his career was definitely cut short do to injury
He was mentioned early on n One of my older cousins who played
College Football and coached told me he was the real deal. HOF who knows l, but he was expected to be a very very good player.
Once he returned to firm from his left knee injury in 2008, his right knee gave out in 2011. He had 53 sacks in his previous 5 years before his second injury.
Ron Johnson is the only one on a par with Bavaro, Â
and maybe even above Bavaro on the basis of talent and his impact on the team overall. He was a tremendous RB in all facets of the game, and was injured in his 2nd year as a full time starter, IIRC?
Troy Archer - we didn't see much of him his career was so cut short by his premature death. But Howard Livingston, founder of Inside Football and a former Giant player himself, said Archer had a kind of power he'd seen only one other time among all the Giants he knew, and that other guy to have what Howard called 'natural power' a power that seemingly can't be explained by or developed by weight lifting training, the other guy with that natural power was Lawrence Taylor.
Shame we didn't get to see Archer develop.
RE: Troy Archer looked like he was going to be very good Â
Joe Morris? No one expected him to replicate those two monster years, but it’s probably reasonable to believe he could have had a bunch of productive years on the ground were his career not hindered by injury.
I like Morris too but he didn't do much in 82 and 83. Came on in 84 and exploded in 85-86. From there was pretty average and was a one trick pony (no threat in the passing game).
What Hampton? The carries and injuries piled up but, if he didn't miss time early in 90 and the the rest of the playoff run in 90, he may be viewed quite differently. Reeves killed the guy.
I wonder what Terry Kinard's career would have been like without the knee injury in 86.
There are definitely a few "homer" choices here... Â
...OJ Anderson was good, but Morris was a substantially better back. If Morris hadn't gotten hurt, I believe he'd have 2 rings, another 2 or 3,000 yds to his Giant career and almost a HOF by default.
MAYBE...TROY ARCHER. Not just the accident that killed him, the foot injury that messed up his last season. Felt like that kid was set to explode into a perennial pro bowler.
Also - I don't know that he would have made Hall of Fame, but Dan Lloyd was one of my favorite Giants when he got sick - a fine linebacker who was just coming into his own, I believed he would have been the eventual replacement for Brian Kelley.
Of guys whose careers were largely contemporary to Morris' Â
leading the giants to convert to a 3/4. get the best players on field, and best lb’ers included Harry carson and spaceman lloyd.
another HOF candidate if uninsured might have bee Tucker Fredrickson. his knee injury and the slowly developing technology of sports medicine doomed his career.
😢then there is charlie Conerly, #42 who is kept from the HOF by WWII and his service in the Pacific, and a stupid head coach (according to Frank Gifford) who only let CC play 3/4 of every football game thus diminishing his stats. that crap about heinrich’s playing 1/4 to feel out ‘d’ was just idiocy, even then. i still think CC was best all time giant QB, except for Eli.
why isn't Brad Van Pelt talked about more as an HOF candidate? From 1976 through 1980, five straight years, he was both a Pro Bowl player and a 1st or 2nd team All Pro - most of those 1st team All Pro selection when more than one organization named "All Pro" teams. 18 career ints over 11 seasons as a NYG OLB.
1973-1983 was a pretty darn bleak decade plus for the Giants, and Van Pelt was one of the teams' very few good players.
I’m blanking on whether or not his career was derailed by injury or he simply faded when Tarkenton left
He doesn't get the credit he really should. For many seasons he was a key guy in our offense. But I don't remember him having any major injuries that impacting his career significantly. I seem to recall him wanting out of the organization at some point which I guess largely led to his being traded to Minnesota.
for Troy Archer, and one for Carl Banks who was the best OLB vs the run in the NFL for a few years. I, too, would vote for Charlie Conerly. He was a stud QB. Another very fine player who has yet to be mentioned -- though probably not HOF caliber -- is DL John Mendenhall. He was a bright light during some dark years.
Ron Johnson - arguably the greatest RB the Giants every had Â
- First Giant to rush for 1,000, and did it twice (70 and 72). Remember this were 14 game seasons.
- 2 time Pro-Bowl player.
- Great receiver. In his 3 real seasons had 1,270, 1,514, and 1,633 total yds from scrimmage (again only 14 games). These are great stats even today
- The Giants teams sucked
- 4,300 rushing yds basically done in 3 seasons (those 2 seasons accounted for 3,100 of them)
Although he was in the league for 6 seasons, Johnson really only played 3 seasons. His first season was a rookie year with Cleveland, he got hurt in 1971, and 1974 and 1975 were injuries also. Then he retired before playing a down in 1976.
If it wasn't for injuries, lets saw he played 8 or so full seasons. At an average rushing of 1,100 per year, plus another 300 yds in receiving, thats a lot of stats.
-- Banks was really good. All Decade Team for the 1980's. It could be argued that he belongs.
-- Bavaro, if he stayed healthy he would have made it. No question about that. He was awesome. Injuries took their toll.
-- Tiki was good, generated alot of yards both rushing and receiving. One of the better RB's during his time. Maybe if he's on the 2007 SB team, he makes it. But, he wasn't.
-- Sehorn was good, but not HOF good, even when he was healthy. Made a foolish mistake by returning that kick in the pre-season.
-- Simms was really good, still has the best SB performance of all time. He led his team to 2. Yes, he got hurt late in the 1990 season, but they were 10-1 when that happened. They aren't in position to go all the way without his performance. But, his stats aren't good enough overall for the HOF.
Because we were in good hands with Alstott?
Sehorn had one great year in '97 before his knee injury. Hard to say he would have continued being great even without injury.
Snee was Hall of Good. He was never dominant the way a Larry Allen was or a Mike Munchek was. Still a great player but IMO not HOF.
Charles Way at FB? No chance. Lorenzo Neal, Mike Alstott, Keith Byers all better then Way.
Nicks is legit. He was amazing his first three years and then his body fell apart.
Cruz - Had an amazing 2011. A good 2012. An ok 2013. Wasn't doing much prior to injury in '14. I think it is ridiculous to say he had a shot at the HOF.
Not one of those guys was better than Way as a blocker. Neal maybe even but not better. And he was a better runner and receiver IMO. Byers? If not for his college rep no one would even know who he was as a pro years later. Alstott was very good but healthy I’d take Way as a FB. Their blocking wasn’t close.
Is you can say no to the HOF but those three weren’t better
Only Bavaro imv goes on...
Simms was a great QB when healthy and imo better than Eli
Charles Way - before he got injured he was a great 2 way FB
JPP for sure, before his back and his hand he could have been a HOFer
Nicks - He was much better than Cruz ever was
Sehorn - he was just breaking out before the knee
Armstead - had early injuries 1st 3 years then went on to 5 straight pro bowls. If he had the early health and longevity hes probably in
Shockey - He was one of the best when healthy, he would be in if he had any full seasons, in his 10 full seasons he never played 16 games.
Guys mentioned above that I disagree with
Snee - was very good, I guess a little hard to judge an OL but I never felt he was the best ever
Cruz - a fan favorite and a good WR too many drops and didn't do well when he was the #1 target. He was fading before the injuries
Quote:
was probably equal parts his ability and equal parts Chris Berman....
Because we were in good hands with Alstott?
Haha...and Berman's sound effects of him banging into defenders.
Shockey - He was one of the best when healthy, he would be in if he had any full seasons, in his 10 full seasons he never played 16 games.
Here's a question for everyone. Was Shockey that good or did he benefit from playing in Peyton's TE friendly offense?
Quote:
Shockey - He was one of the best when healthy, he would be in if he had any full seasons, in his 10 full seasons he never played 16 games.
Here's a question for everyone. Was Shockey that good or did he benefit from playing in Peyton's TE friendly offense?
He was that good, imho
Who knows what kind of career JPP is able to put together without the back and the fireworks.
Sky was the limit.
JPP had HOF talent, but I never thought he had the heart to maximize the talent. I don’t think injuries were the only thing holding him back.
No clue how good David Wilson could be. He never ran behind a good offensive line. Right when the online started to really fall apart up the middle.
He managed to break one record before he was forced to retire.
offensive tackle. At 6'6" and 250 pounds he was an incredible force often blocking two defensive linemen at a time. An All-Pro immediately upon joining the Giants from
Georgetown.
Quote:
...joking.
No clue how good David Wilson could be. He never ran behind a good offensive line. Right when the online started to really fall apart up the middle.
He managed to break one record before he was forced to retire.
Agreed. I was disappointed with the pick (Glenn was sitting right there) but Wilson's rookie year had a lot to get excited.
tucker's career was also cut short because he was offered a very lucrative job at allen &co where I still think he works for unless e retired
He was mentioned early on n One of my older cousins who played
College Football and coached told me he was the real deal. HOF who knows l, but he was expected to be a very very good player.
At the very least he could have been a pro bowl level return man.
Clint Sintim.
Tuck and his ownage of Mankins will live forever in my mind.
Atleast we had Strahan because there were a couple of pass rushers we had who had the potential to be better.
Not to mention Jonas.
Troy Archer - we didn't see much of him his career was so cut short by his premature death. But Howard Livingston, founder of Inside Football and a former Giant player himself, said Archer had a kind of power he'd seen only one other time among all the Giants he knew, and that other guy to have what Howard called 'natural power' a power that seemingly can't be explained by or developed by weight lifting training, the other guy with that natural power was Lawrence Taylor.
Shame we didn't get to see Archer develop.
+1
on broken glass.
I like Morris too but he didn't do much in 82 and 83. Came on in 84 and exploded in 85-86. From there was pretty average and was a one trick pony (no threat in the passing game).
What Hampton? The carries and injuries piled up but, if he didn't miss time early in 90 and the the rest of the playoff run in 90, he may be viewed quite differently. Reeves killed the guy.
I wonder what Terry Kinard's career would have been like without the knee injury in 86.
MAYBE...TROY ARCHER. Not just the accident that killed him, the foot injury that messed up his last season. Felt like that kid was set to explode into a perennial pro bowler.
Also - I don't know that he would have made Hall of Fame, but Dan Lloyd was one of my favorite Giants when he got sick - a fine linebacker who was just coming into his own, I believed he would have been the eventual replacement for Brian Kelley.
Marcus Allen
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
There is no scenario where a healthier Joe Morris is the next name on that list.
another HOF candidate if uninsured might have bee Tucker Fredrickson. his knee injury and the slowly developing technology of sports medicine doomed his career.
😢then there is charlie Conerly, #42 who is kept from the HOF by WWII and his service in the Pacific, and a stupid head coach (according to Frank Gifford) who only let CC play 3/4 of every football game thus diminishing his stats. that crap about heinrich’s playing 1/4 to feel out ‘d’ was just idiocy, even then. i still think CC was best all time giant QB, except for Eli.
Marcus Allen
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
There is no scenario where a healthier Joe Morris is the next name on that list.
IF Morris had a fat 1990 campaign, and IF he had the same Super Bowl MVP success as OJ - MAYBE.
Part of Morris' problem was platooning time at RB with Rob Carpenter and Butch Woolfolk.
1973-1983 was a pretty darn bleak decade plus for the Giants, and Van Pelt was one of the teams' very few good players.
He doesn't get the credit he really should. For many seasons he was a key guy in our offense. But I don't remember him having any major injuries that impacting his career significantly. I seem to recall him wanting out of the organization at some point which I guess largely led to his being traded to Minnesota.
- 2 time Pro-Bowl player.
- Great receiver. In his 3 real seasons had 1,270, 1,514, and 1,633 total yds from scrimmage (again only 14 games). These are great stats even today
- The Giants teams sucked
- 4,300 rushing yds basically done in 3 seasons (those 2 seasons accounted for 3,100 of them)
Although he was in the league for 6 seasons, Johnson really only played 3 seasons. His first season was a rookie year with Cleveland, he got hurt in 1971, and 1974 and 1975 were injuries also. Then he retired before playing a down in 1976.
If it wasn't for injuries, lets saw he played 8 or so full seasons. At an average rushing of 1,100 per year, plus another 300 yds in receiving, thats a lot of stats.