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Shurmur prepared PowerPoint presentation to trade Odell?!

Josh in the City : 7/18/2019 9:12 pm
So on my drive home today, I heard Anita Marks say on ESPN radio that Pat Shurmur created a PowerPoint presentation in order to convince Tisch to trade Odell. I didnít hear who her source was but she said that Shurmur listed all the reasons why he thought the Giants offense could still work without Odell on the team and that while Gettleman supported the decision, they had to convince ownership (specifically Tisch) that it was the right decision for the team. This is the first I heard anything about this and was curious if anyone heard the segment and whether she is the first to report this?
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If Tisch is a decision maker...  
EricJ : 7/19/2019 7:58 am : link
then we have more problems than I thought....

That guy should be a silent partner. When we want advice on which director to work with the next time we are on "Hard Knocks", then Tisch can weigh in.
This exactly ^  
arniefez : 7/19/2019 8:14 am : link
so now the Giants have 2 Mara's and at least one Tisch deciding the on field roster? No wonder they're such a mess. George Young must be spinning.

As far as negotiating went it was pretty simple. They were sending him to Buffalo or Cleveland. That wasn't by accident it was probably the condition of the trade for the owners especially on the Mara side.
RE: If Tisch is a decision maker...  
Matt in SGS : 7/19/2019 8:15 am : link
In comment 14501986 EricJ said:
Quote:
then we have more problems than I thought....

That guy should be a silent partner. When we want advice on which director to work with the next time we are on "Hard Knocks", then Tisch can weigh in.


Which Tisch are we talking about here though. It was well established back in 1991 that the Mara's handle the football aspect and the Tisch family assisted on the business/financial end. Jonathan Tisch is the Treasurer of the NY Giants. Trading Odell has a big impact on finances, not only from a dead cap standpoint, but from jersey sales, sponsorships, etc. Trading Odell wasn't simply a decision that "this guy is going to be a pain in the ass and we've got Saquon, so let's trade him".

Steve Tisch however, I'd agree with. He's part owner, but all in all, since his father took over, I've never heard a situation where the Tisch family has ever stood in the way of a football decision. He's clearly informed (he has to be), but if Mara is ok, Tisch has usually been ok. The only time I remember Robert Tisch getting involved in a Giants' transaction was when he screwed up the Rodney Hampton negotiation in 1996 and blew the news to the press that the Giants were going to match the Niner's offer for him. George Young's plan was to let the Niners twist for a week and set up his own moves, but someone shoved a microphone in Tisch's face at a Ranger game and Tisch blurted it out. Otherwise, while Steve Tisch finds the camera often, I've rarely heard him speak on any real tactical football matters.
I'm..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/19/2019 8:20 am : link
just glad he didn't have a slide on how to replace apparel sales with this:
RE: It doesnít even matter anymore  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/19/2019 8:24 am : link
In comment 14501876 djm said:
Quote:
Itís done. Itís up to the giants to convert the assets and cap space returned in the Beckham deal into winning football. Beckham was a risk. Giants decided to act. Now they need to make it work.


Itís doesn't. So why isnít OBJ having one of his minions Putting stuff out there? Because he and his people are following a model of keeping his names out there. IMO he and his crew will be milking the Giants trading him and how he was mistreated for as long as it helps keeping him out there

Look at Conor McGregor who got his ass kicked and will again if the fights another top tier fighter. Wonít ever stop him from self promoting. They are a brand. Keep tweeting. Keep doing interviews. Miss 8 games but your name will be out there OBJ. .
Good one  
Dirt1 : 7/19/2019 8:42 am : link
Fatman!!
Am I the only one who hates Power Point?  
Marty in Albany : 7/19/2019 8:53 am : link
"Power Point" is a great name, but it is mostly ineffective. It works best if you need to show a chart and then explain how the chart works. For instance, a chart with yards gained and points scored with and without Beckham.

For most other things Power Point sucks and is just a crutch for poor speakers. Usually it just diverts attention from what the speaker is saying, (which is often a good thing).

Rant over.
Shurmur isn't a public speaker  
UConn4523 : 7/19/2019 9:06 am : link
and Power Point is used to show more than just charts. Its actually a very useful tool, especially if you are trying to illustrate something that's hard to example in words, or understand without seeing an example.

I'm not the best with powerpoint, but its extremely useful, IMO.

I think its awesome that Shurmur did this, if true.
RE: RE: It doesnít even matter anymore  
ron mexico : 7/19/2019 9:29 am : link
In comment 14501999 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 14501876 djm said:


Quote:


Itís done. Itís up to the giants to convert the assets and cap space returned in the Beckham deal into winning football. Beckham was a risk. Giants decided to act. Now they need to make it work.



Itís doesn't. So why isnít OBJ having one of his minions Putting stuff out there? Because he and his people are following a model of keeping his names out there. IMO he and his crew will be milking the Giants trading him and how he was mistreated for as long as it helps keeping him out there

Look at Conor McGregor who got his ass kicked and will again if the fights another top tier fighter. Wonít ever stop him from self promoting. They are a brand. Keep tweeting. Keep doing interviews. Miss 8 games but your name will be out there OBJ. .


Are you saying this info is coming from OBJ's camp?

That doesn't make a lot of sense for a variety of reasons.
I dont know why this is a story  
ron mexico : 7/19/2019 9:35 am : link
Of course you would need to explain to ownership why you are trading one of your biggest stars less than a year after making the highest paid player at his position.

Who cares what medium is used to do that

Why should Tisch be a silent partner?  
Oscar : 7/19/2019 9:37 am : link
Mara has given zero indication he has a clue what heís doing. If I were Tisch I would insist on being involved in everything. He owns 50% of the team but itís often presented like that stake gets him access to the sidelines and little else.
I'dve just had 1 slide.  
x meadowlander : 7/19/2019 9:40 am : link
That was the moment...  
x meadowlander : 7/19/2019 9:41 am : link
...Beckham lost me.


He could've ended Norman's career, or even killed him.
RE: That was the moment...  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/19/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14502065 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...Beckham lost me.


He could've ended Norman's career, or even killed him.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but Norman is an incredibly difficult person to paint as a sympathetic figure.
RE: Honestly  
HomerJones45 : 7/19/2019 10:10 am : link
In comment 14501849 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
with the benefit of hindsight, based on the moves the Giants made, trading Odell now made sense. I thought they might wait until next year, but better to trade a year too soon than a year too late.

When you look at what the Giants were going to do going into 2019

- Saquon was going to be the focal point of the offense. Odell was likely not going to fall in line that easilly.

- Clearly the Giants were ready to move on from Eli this year and were going to go QB in the first round. Pair Odell with a rookie QB probably was not going to be the best thing because that QB would get intimidated by Odell and feel the need to force the ball. And again...the offense is going through Saquon.

- Watching Antonio Brown's meltdown and forced the Steelers to trade him for 30 cents on the dollar likely got the Giants attention to move him now. You could easily see Odell following Brown's template, particularly because Odell's camp had been leaking for a long time he wanted to go to LA.

- And I still believe that Peppers was always in the conversation with the Browns and Gettleman, and that factored into the decision to let Collins walk and save $$ and recoup the 3rd round comp pick next year.

With an offense that no longer featured a WR of Odell's caliber because they have the best RB in football, and Odell's injuries and whatever the hell happened the last 4 games, it was time to go.

Still, if there was a power point presentation, I'd love to see it. Did he have a Giants template? Did he use transitions to make the words appear on the screen with a mouse click? Did he use sound effects?
Did he use the slides as talking points and spoke about other things in more detail, the cardinal sin of all power point presentations is just to read the slides out loud. So many questions....
This is all so 1970's complete with the posthumous trashing anyone who leaves and fans falling for the 70's Giant specialty, a few decent games at the end of the season when it's all over. Don't fall for it. Shurmur is a nothing- a mediocrity. All the vets knew it and they had to go at fire sale prices in hopes that new players who don't know any better might pay some attention to him. This team is a Barkley sore leg from being one of the worst teams in the League.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/19/2019 10:13 am : link
I guess in this heat a wet blanket gets covered in mildew and mold awfully fucking quickly.
Anita Marks claims to have inside sources  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/19/2019 10:30 am : link
And I don't entirely doubt her. Claimed Shumur was behind almost all the trades, which is good, a GM who gets the right personnel his coach needs, what a concept.
Ugh  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/19/2019 10:32 am : link
And Tisch is the reason this franchise has been so horrible of latr, coach needs to put together a slide presentation for that interfering clown. Fuck Fuck fuck.
I don't agree with Homer...  
x meadowlander : 7/19/2019 10:36 am : link
...but there's a lot of truth in this one line:

"This team is a Barkley sore leg from being one of the worst teams in the League."
RE: I dont know why this is a story  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/19/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14502057 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Of course you would need to explain to ownership why you are trading one of your biggest stars less than a year after making the highest paid player at his position.

Who cares what medium is used to do that


It's a story for idiots who need another thread in which to complain about a player who's no longer on the team.
RE: RE: If Tisch is a decision maker...  
EricJ : 7/19/2019 10:56 am : link
In comment 14501993 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:


Which Tisch are we talking about here though.


I was talking about the only Tisch left who is alive and would have seen Shurmur's powerpoint. WTF ??
Huh??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/19/2019 10:59 am : link
Both Steve Tisch and Jonathan Tisch are still alive, aren't they?
I have little doubt...  
bw in dc : 7/19/2019 11:00 am : link
Shurmur put together the PP because Gettleman couldn't.
RE: Huh??  
Big Blue '56 : 7/19/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14502180 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Both Steve Tisch and Jonathan Tisch are still alive, aren't they?


Most likely referring to Bob Tisch
RE: I have little doubt...  
Big Blue '56 : 7/19/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14502181 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Shurmur put together the PP because Gettleman couldn't.


And, like clock work
RE: RE: Huh??  
EricJ : 7/19/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14502190 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14502180 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


Both Steve Tisch and Jonathan Tisch are still alive, aren't they?



Most likely referring to Bob Tisch


yes BOB.. sorry
RE: Its at least good to know that the NYG's are using  
jamesk479 : 7/19/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14501874 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
computers equipped with Microsoft Office software.

You hear these reports that the team is way behind the rest of the league on analytics and fans get concerned.


MS Office? Lol. That's behind the entire world. As much money as these teams have, I want to hear they are using Jupyter Notebooks, Python, or R from real statistics/math professionals, not mere data analysts.

But half of you schmucks probably think sports analytics (aka, statistical analysis; aka SCIENCE) is fake news.
to the crowd that thinks Gettleman should have  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/19/2019 11:32 am : link
negotiated harder and sought a wider range of trade partners

1 - the 49ers for example have a leaky office -- every talk they had about this with the Giants made the rounds.

2 - once it got around that the Giants were seeking a trade partner to ship Odell out it would have become a circus and Odell would have created leverage for himself about it tying the Giants hands more and limiting their ability to make a decent deal.

3 -the Giants did fine with what they got -- ultimately they got rid of a head ache and got more of a team player in Peppers. Lawrence has the appearance of being a mammoth defensive star and Ximines has some real promise too -- if two of those three become star starters, then the Giants have done well

4 - not that I wish it -- but the Browns have the potential for becoming a real chit show with the number of big egos and mouths they are gathering.
RE: Am I the only one who hates Power Point?  
jamesk479 : 7/19/2019 11:48 am : link
In comment 14502023 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
"Usually it just diverts attention from what the speaker is saying, (which is often a good thing).

Rant over.


Despite its limitations, it has become a standard thing to use. People expect you to have it. I know many teachers get complaints if they do not have them.

Since on the subject of rants - I also hate the use of the word "crutch" in this context. Also, I hate the casual use of the word "hate" (lol, but seriously!). Do you despise, abhor or loathe PowerPoints?. Does the use of one fill you with such intense feeling that it ruins the rest of your day? If so, I would get help. Or, perhaps we should reserve the word hate for things that we really do, and maybe their will be less hate in the world.

For example, I do not hate the Philladelphia Eagles. I hope that we embarrass them whenever we play though. If I am filled with intense feeling after a bad loss, it is usually more directed towards inept play or coaching - and I always have respect for good football play if even from our rivals.

Also, some of you clearly state that you hate OBJ. If you are still holding intense grudges, you need help.
i'm willing to put money  
Gordo : 7/19/2019 1:01 pm : link
on the fact that OBJ never gets back to his first three years.

this is his 6th year in the league, hes had a major injury already. Now he's in a new offense on team that is always getting blown up and rebuilt. This has a Randy Moss on the Raiders feel to it. If Mayfield is the real deal and that team doesn't implode then maybe, but I doubt it will last more than a season. Too many egos in that locker room for it not to eat itself.
I'll bet OBJ easily gets 1200 yards this year  
ron mexico : 7/19/2019 1:21 pm : link
1400 is not out of the question either.
RE: I'll bet OBJ easily gets 1200 yards this year  
NYG007 : 7/19/2019 2:33 pm : link
In comment 14502369 ron mexico said:
Quote:
1400 is not out of the question either.


And I'll counter, I guarantee they don't win a playoff game.
RE: RE: I'll bet OBJ easily gets 1200 yards this year  
ron mexico : 7/19/2019 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14502445 NYG007 said:
Quote:
In comment 14502369 ron mexico said:


Quote:


1400 is not out of the question either.



And I'll counter, I guarantee they don't win a playoff game.


I wouldn't take even odds on that, but I would make that bet
RE: RE: Honestly  
BlueLou'sBack : 7/19/2019 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14501975 Fred-in-Florida said:
In comment 14501849 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
with the benefit of hindsight, based on the moves the Giants made, trading Odell now made sense. I thought they might wait until next year, but better to trade a year too soon than a year too late.

Matt...

Your're absolutely right about that statement. I thought that the injury to his ankle(s) the year before limited his explosiveness. He still drew double coverage but was more on reputation than performance.


I rarely disagree with Matt in SGS, but we really don't have true hindsight yet. For that, we need to see what we get from Peppers, Lawrence and Xman - and also how OBJ's career progresses. Although for sure a year early is better than a year too late...
RE: I'll bet OBJ easily gets 1200 yards this year  
bw in dc : 7/19/2019 3:04 pm : link
In comment 14502369 ron mexico said:
Quote:
1400 is not out of the question either.


I think he's going to kill it, too. And be a total pain in the ass the entire time... ;)



The fact Tisch  
pjcas18 : 7/19/2019 3:06 pm : link
has his hands in who to trade or not, reeks of Daniel Snyder.

You hire a GM to make these decisions, maybe a President of Football Operations.

not a movie producer.

I guess every owner wants to know about major moves, but still seems heavy handed to me.
Any GM/Coach is going to have to convince the owner to trade the face  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/19/2019 3:22 pm : link
of the franchise. And like it or not that is exactly what he became.
RE: The fact Tisch  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/19/2019 3:35 pm : link
In comment 14502466 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
has his hands in who to trade or not, reeks of Daniel Snyder.

You hire a GM to make these decisions, maybe a President of Football Operations.

not a movie producer.

I guess every owner wants to know about major moves, but still seems heavy handed to me.


Do you honestly believe there's a franchise in ANY major sport in which trades of high level players get done without the owner's approval? Even Jerry West has to tell Steve Ballmer before he trades Blake Griffin. If the owner says "No", it doesn't happen even if Jerry's contract stipulates final say on all basketball matters. The owner can just fire Jerry and pay his contract.
But it doesn't seem strange  
pjcas18 : 7/19/2019 3:38 pm : link
or dysfunctional to anyone the coach goes to the owner (probably the lesser football guy owner out of the two owners) to make his trade pitch?

That comes from the GM is my point or gets made to the GM who makes it ownership.

Coach to owner for trades only happens in New England IMO, because they don't have a GM.
I'm geussing  
ron mexico : 7/19/2019 3:42 pm : link
Both the GM and coach approached both owners about the trade...but I didn't hear the segment.

Seems reasonable for a trade of that magnitude and the amount of dead money they are going to eat.

They basically threw away 20mil of the owners money by signing him then trading him.



RE: I don't agree with Homer...  
BlueLou'sBack : 7/19/2019 3:51 pm : link
In comment 14502144 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...but there's a lot of truth in this one line:

"This team is a Barkley sore leg from being one of the worst teams in the League."


They are a Barkley sore leg away from having any Pro Bowlers or stars (well maybe Engram?) but moving Beckham for 3 guys that might all be pretty good players - Lawrence, Peppers, and Xman - and perhaps one absolute stud in Lawrence...

On a roster largely devoid of talent it's close to a no-brainer IMO. It's still a team game, and one standout WR does not make anyone a perennial contender; that is for certain.
RE: But it doesn't seem strange  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/19/2019 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14502480 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
or dysfunctional to anyone the coach goes to the owner (probably the lesser football guy owner out of the two owners) to make his trade pitch?

That comes from the GM is my point or gets made to the GM who makes it ownership.

Coach to owner for trades only happens in New England IMO, because they don't have a GM.


Mara, Gettleman, and Shurmer were probably on board, but Tisch needed to be convinced the team would be/could be better on the field without Odell. Perhaps Shurmer was the best person to do that of the three. My problem would've been Shurmer isn't exactly Bill B., Bill P., Bill W., or Bill anything in terms of head coaching at this point in his career. That would've had to be some Powerpoint presentation for me to get over the fact it's being given by a head coach with a 31% winning percentage through 3 seasons.
RE: But it doesn't seem strange  
BlueLou'sBack : 7/19/2019 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14502480 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
or dysfunctional to anyone the coach goes to the owner (probably the lesser football guy owner out of the two owners) to make his trade pitch?

That comes from the GM is my point or gets made to the GM who makes it ownership.

Coach to owner for trades only happens in New England IMO, because they don't have a GM.


In this specific case, it may be because Shurmur was the one who reportedly wanted OBJ kept around at the time of DG inking his big deal. DG reportedly was already looking to move on from OBJ a year ago, but Shurmur plead a case to keep him, right?
RE: RE: I don't agree with Homer...  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/19/2019 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14502490 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14502144 x meadowlander said:


Quote:


...but there's a lot of truth in this one line:

"This team is a Barkley sore leg from being one of the worst teams in the League."



They are a Barkley sore leg away from having any Pro Bowlers or stars (well maybe Engram?) but moving Beckham for 3 guys that might all be pretty good players - Lawrence, Peppers, and Xman - and perhaps one absolute stud in Lawrence...

On a roster largely devoid of talent it's close to a no-brainer IMO. It's still a team game, and one standout WR does not make anyone a perennial contender; that is for certain.


Hernadez and Zeitler May Be Pro Bowl level. And who cares about the Pro Bowl. If our OL player well together and stud team wins Thatís the goal.


OBJ didnít help the team win shit. Peppers Andy Zeitler are an upgrade over a fantasy guy who plays 8-12 games a year and can help the team
RE: I'm geussing  
christian : 7/19/2019 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14502483 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Both the GM and coach approached both owners about the trade...but I didn't hear the segment.

Seems reasonable for a trade of that magnitude and the amount of dead money they are going to eat.

They basically threw away 20mil of the owners money by signing him then trading him.




The Giants paid 22M for 12 games of Beckham. No matter what the Giants got in exchange, the owner deserves to be advised on that.

If the coach had a PPT ready to whip out for a trade -- that doesn't quite align with the story that the Browns approached the Giants, blew them away, and by dinner Beckham was a Brown.
They ought to erase all traces of the PPT  
ron mexico : 7/19/2019 7:16 pm : link
Make sure it's gone from the backup servers if they exist.

Nothing good would come from that coming to the light of day.
RE: RE: I'll bet OBJ easily gets 1200 yards this year  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/19/2019 7:37 pm : link
In comment 14502465 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14502369 ron mexico said:


Quote:


1400 is not out of the question either.



I think he's going to kill it, too. And be a total pain in the ass the entire time... ;)



1200 yds, and then completely dissappear in a playoff game lodd.

Football's Carmela Anthony,
Think both sides got what they wanted.  
TMS : 7/19/2019 10:19 pm : link
We will see how it plays out. Lets not beat it to death on this site again and again and again.
This is the only image you needed  
Stan in LA : 7/20/2019 5:15 pm : link
I'm reading this as saying that Mara wanted OBJ gone, but Tisch  
GeofromNJ : 7/21/2019 5:33 pm : link
had to be convinced, hence Shurmur was asked to prepare a PPT to convince Tisch. I have no idea whether Anita Marks has inside access. More than a few posters on this site expressed doubt in the past. But the idea that Mara wanted OBJ gone, but Tisch has reservations, makes sense to me.
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