So on my drive home today, I heard Anita Marks say on ESPN radio that Pat Shurmur created a PowerPoint presentation in order to convince Tisch to trade Odell. I didn’t hear who her source was but she said that Shurmur listed all the reasons why he thought the Giants offense could still work without Odell on the team and that while Gettleman supported the decision, they had to convince ownership (specifically Tisch) that it was the right decision for the team. This is the first I heard anything about this and was curious if anyone heard the segment and whether she is the first to report this?
Even if he could see the benefit he probably should stay far away from football decisions.
The second slide of just some random hot 22 yo girl to distract Tisch.
The second slide of just some random hot 22 yo girl to distract Tisch.
😂
With the espn interview Beckham plus other things, gettleman got shurmur on board and got the owners to sign off. No presentation was needed
When you look at what the Giants were going to do going into 2019
- Saquon was going to be the focal point of the offense. Odell was likely not going to fall in line that easilly.
- Clearly the Giants were ready to move on from Eli this year and were going to go QB in the first round. Pair Odell with a rookie QB probably was not going to be the best thing because that QB would get intimidated by Odell and feel the need to force the ball. And again...the offense is going through Saquon.
- Watching Antonio Brown's meltdown and forced the Steelers to trade him for 30 cents on the dollar likely got the Giants attention to move him now. You could easily see Odell following Brown's template, particularly because Odell's camp had been leaking for a long time he wanted to go to LA.
- And I still believe that Peppers was always in the conversation with the Browns and Gettleman, and that factored into the decision to let Collins walk and save $$ and recoup the 3rd round comp pick next year.
With an offense that no longer featured a WR of Odell's caliber because they have the best RB in football, and Odell's injuries and whatever the hell happened the last 4 games, it was time to go.
Still, if there was a power point presentation, I'd love to see it. Did he have a Giants template? Did he use transitions to make the words appear on the screen with a mouse click? Did he use sound effects?
Did he use the slides as talking points and spoke about other things in more detail, the cardinal sin of all power point presentations is just to read the slides out loud. So many questions....
But last year...the offense did better.
OBJ and his people’s media shill. And so what if he did. I guess he could have written it on a cocktail napkin like Mike Leach? Mayfield has to back him. Marks still trying to remain relevant and still carrying OBJs water. Guy is the biggest pussy in sports. STFU and try and play 16 games
You hear these reports that the team is way behind the rest of the league on analytics and fans get concerned.
Hopefully Shurmur incorporated some illustrative graphs and charts to spice up the deck...
Shurmur could have gone a number of ways with this to be persuasive with his remarks...
Not "World war"
fyi
But my problem with trading him is that Gettleman didnt negotiate. Theres one thing to say
"look we have an offer, it includes x picks, i need an answer within 1 hour as to whether youd be interested in beating this if not, hes gone."
its another to just answer the phone and take the first offer you received just because it has a 1st round pick included.
Actually this explains it all. Great Power Point right there.
You hear these reports that the team is way behind the rest of the league on analytics and fans get concerned.
Hopefully Shurmur incorporated some illustrative graphs and charts to spice up the deck...
The mere mention of analytics even in jest is a trigger for some. Here's a glimpse of NoGainDayne -
But my problem with trading him is that Gettleman didnt negotiate. Theres one thing to say
"look we have an offer, it includes x picks, i need an answer within 1 hour as to whether youd be interested in beating this if not, hes gone."
its another to just answer the phone and take the first offer you received just because it has a 1st round pick included.
Sheesh, did you write that with a straight face? Were you in the room with DG?
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It’s Anita Marks. Just ignore her.
OBJ and his people’s media shill. And so what if he did. I guess he could have written it on a cocktail napkin like Mike Leach? Mayfield has to back him. Marks still trying to remain relevant and still carrying OBJs water. Guy is the biggest pussy in sports. STFU and try and play 16 games
I think you’re getting her confused with Kim Jones. Anita Marks doesnt care about making Odell look good. Shes been pretty objective about the whole trade and has no issue with it happening.
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In comment 14501841 Danny Kanell said:
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It’s Anita Marks. Just ignore her.
OBJ and his people’s media shill. And so what if he did. I guess he could have written it on a cocktail napkin like Mike Leach? Mayfield has to back him. Marks still trying to remain relevant and still carrying OBJs water. Guy is the biggest pussy in sports. STFU and try and play 16 games
I think you’re getting her confused with Kim Jones. Anita Marks doesnt care about making Odell look good. Shes been pretty objective about the whole trade and has no issue with it happening.
When it comes to credibility, Kim Jones is light years ahead of Anita Marks. Anita has fabricated stories a few times and what exactly is her resume other than posing nude in playboy?
Kim Jones got the Beckham information wrong, she had a bad source, it happens. Kim has covered the giants, NFL and the Yankees. She has a lot of contacts and insight into what is going on.
[quote] with the benefit of hindsight, based on the moves the Giants made, trading Odell now made sense. I thought they might wait until next year, but better to trade a year too soon than a year too late.
Matt...
Your're absolutely right about that statement. I thought that the injury to his ankle(s) the year before limited his explosiveness. He still drew double coverage but was more on reputation than performance.
That guy should be a silent partner. When we want advice on which director to work with the next time we are on "Hard Knocks", then Tisch can weigh in.
As far as negotiating went it was pretty simple. They were sending him to Buffalo or Cleveland. That wasn't by accident it was probably the condition of the trade for the owners especially on the Mara side.
That guy should be a silent partner. When we want advice on which director to work with the next time we are on "Hard Knocks", then Tisch can weigh in.
Which Tisch are we talking about here though. It was well established back in 1991 that the Mara's handle the football aspect and the Tisch family assisted on the business/financial end. Jonathan Tisch is the Treasurer of the NY Giants. Trading Odell has a big impact on finances, not only from a dead cap standpoint, but from jersey sales, sponsorships, etc. Trading Odell wasn't simply a decision that "this guy is going to be a pain in the ass and we've got Saquon, so let's trade him".
Steve Tisch however, I'd agree with. He's part owner, but all in all, since his father took over, I've never heard a situation where the Tisch family has ever stood in the way of a football decision. He's clearly informed (he has to be), but if Mara is ok, Tisch has usually been ok. The only time I remember Robert Tisch getting involved in a Giants' transaction was when he screwed up the Rodney Hampton negotiation in 1996 and blew the news to the press that the Giants were going to match the Niner's offer for him. George Young's plan was to let the Niners twist for a week and set up his own moves, but someone shoved a microphone in Tisch's face at a Ranger game and Tisch blurted it out. Otherwise, while Steve Tisch finds the camera often, I've rarely heard him speak on any real tactical football matters.
It’s doesn't. So why isn’t OBJ having one of his minions Putting stuff out there? Because he and his people are following a model of keeping his names out there. IMO he and his crew will be milking the Giants trading him and how he was mistreated for as long as it helps keeping him out there
Look at Conor McGregor who got his ass kicked and will again if the fights another top tier fighter. Won’t ever stop him from self promoting. They are a brand. Keep tweeting. Keep doing interviews. Miss 8 games but your name will be out there OBJ. .
For most other things Power Point sucks and is just a crutch for poor speakers. Usually it just diverts attention from what the speaker is saying, (which is often a good thing).
Rant over.
I'm not the best with powerpoint, but its extremely useful, IMO.
I think its awesome that Shurmur did this, if true.
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It’s done. It’s up to the giants to convert the assets and cap space returned in the Beckham deal into winning football. Beckham was a risk. Giants decided to act. Now they need to make it work.
It’s doesn't. So why isn’t OBJ having one of his minions Putting stuff out there? Because he and his people are following a model of keeping his names out there. IMO he and his crew will be milking the Giants trading him and how he was mistreated for as long as it helps keeping him out there
Look at Conor McGregor who got his ass kicked and will again if the fights another top tier fighter. Won’t ever stop him from self promoting. They are a brand. Keep tweeting. Keep doing interviews. Miss 8 games but your name will be out there OBJ. .
Are you saying this info is coming from OBJ's camp?
That doesn't make a lot of sense for a variety of reasons.
Who cares what medium is used to do that
He could've ended Norman's career, or even killed him.
He could've ended Norman's career, or even killed him.
I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but Norman is an incredibly difficult person to paint as a sympathetic figure.
When you look at what the Giants were going to do going into 2019
- Saquon was going to be the focal point of the offense. Odell was likely not going to fall in line that easilly.
- Clearly the Giants were ready to move on from Eli this year and were going to go QB in the first round. Pair Odell with a rookie QB probably was not going to be the best thing because that QB would get intimidated by Odell and feel the need to force the ball. And again...the offense is going through Saquon.
- Watching Antonio Brown's meltdown and forced the Steelers to trade him for 30 cents on the dollar likely got the Giants attention to move him now. You could easily see Odell following Brown's template, particularly because Odell's camp had been leaking for a long time he wanted to go to LA.
- And I still believe that Peppers was always in the conversation with the Browns and Gettleman, and that factored into the decision to let Collins walk and save $$ and recoup the 3rd round comp pick next year.
With an offense that no longer featured a WR of Odell's caliber because they have the best RB in football, and Odell's injuries and whatever the hell happened the last 4 games, it was time to go.
Still, if there was a power point presentation, I'd love to see it. Did he have a Giants template? Did he use transitions to make the words appear on the screen with a mouse click? Did he use sound effects?
Did he use the slides as talking points and spoke about other things in more detail, the cardinal sin of all power point presentations is just to read the slides out loud. So many questions....
"This team is a Barkley sore leg from being one of the worst teams in the League."
Who cares what medium is used to do that
It's a story for idiots who need another thread in which to complain about a player who's no longer on the team.
Which Tisch are we talking about here though.
I was talking about the only Tisch left who is alive and would have seen Shurmur's powerpoint. WTF ??
Most likely referring to Bob Tisch
And, like clock work
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Both Steve Tisch and Jonathan Tisch are still alive, aren't they?
Most likely referring to Bob Tisch
yes BOB.. sorry
You hear these reports that the team is way behind the rest of the league on analytics and fans get concerned.
MS Office? Lol. That's behind the entire world. As much money as these teams have, I want to hear they are using Jupyter Notebooks, Python, or R from real statistics/math professionals, not mere data analysts.
But half of you schmucks probably think sports analytics (aka, statistical analysis; aka SCIENCE) is fake news.
1 - the 49ers for example have a leaky office -- every talk they had about this with the Giants made the rounds.
2 - once it got around that the Giants were seeking a trade partner to ship Odell out it would have become a circus and Odell would have created leverage for himself about it tying the Giants hands more and limiting their ability to make a decent deal.
3 -the Giants did fine with what they got -- ultimately they got rid of a head ache and got more of a team player in Peppers. Lawrence has the appearance of being a mammoth defensive star and Ximines has some real promise too -- if two of those three become star starters, then the Giants have done well
4 - not that I wish it -- but the Browns have the potential for becoming a real chit show with the number of big egos and mouths they are gathering.
Rant over.
Despite its limitations, it has become a standard thing to use. People expect you to have it. I know many teachers get complaints if they do not have them.
Since on the subject of rants - I also hate the use of the word "crutch" in this context. Also, I hate the casual use of the word "hate" (lol, but seriously!). Do you despise, abhor or loathe PowerPoints?. Does the use of one fill you with such intense feeling that it ruins the rest of your day? If so, I would get help. Or, perhaps we should reserve the word hate for things that we really do, and maybe their will be less hate in the world.
For example, I do not hate the Philladelphia Eagles. I hope that we embarrass them whenever we play though. If I am filled with intense feeling after a bad loss, it is usually more directed towards inept play or coaching - and I always have respect for good football play if even from our rivals.
Also, some of you clearly state that you hate OBJ. If you are still holding intense grudges, you need help.
this is his 6th year in the league, hes had a major injury already. Now he's in a new offense on team that is always getting blown up and rebuilt. This has a Randy Moss on the Raiders feel to it. If Mayfield is the real deal and that team doesn't implode then maybe, but I doubt it will last more than a season. Too many egos in that locker room for it not to eat itself.
And I'll counter, I guarantee they don't win a playoff game.
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1400 is not out of the question either.
And I'll counter, I guarantee they don't win a playoff game.
I wouldn't take even odds on that, but I would make that bet
In comment 14501849 Matt in SGS said:
Matt...
Your're absolutely right about that statement. I thought that the injury to his ankle(s) the year before limited his explosiveness. He still drew double coverage but was more on reputation than performance.
I rarely disagree with Matt in SGS, but we really don't have true hindsight yet. For that, we need to see what we get from Peppers, Lawrence and Xman - and also how OBJ's career progresses. Although for sure a year early is better than a year too late...
I think he's going to kill it, too. And be a total pain in the ass the entire time... ;)
You hire a GM to make these decisions, maybe a President of Football Operations.
not a movie producer.
I guess every owner wants to know about major moves, but still seems heavy handed to me.
You hire a GM to make these decisions, maybe a President of Football Operations.
not a movie producer.
I guess every owner wants to know about major moves, but still seems heavy handed to me.
Do you honestly believe there's a franchise in ANY major sport in which trades of high level players get done without the owner's approval? Even Jerry West has to tell Steve Ballmer before he trades Blake Griffin. If the owner says "No", it doesn't happen even if Jerry's contract stipulates final say on all basketball matters. The owner can just fire Jerry and pay his contract.
That comes from the GM is my point or gets made to the GM who makes it ownership.
Coach to owner for trades only happens in New England IMO, because they don't have a GM.
Seems reasonable for a trade of that magnitude and the amount of dead money they are going to eat.
They basically threw away 20mil of the owners money by signing him then trading him.
"This team is a Barkley sore leg from being one of the worst teams in the League."
They are a Barkley sore leg away from having any Pro Bowlers or stars (well maybe Engram?) but moving Beckham for 3 guys that might all be pretty good players - Lawrence, Peppers, and Xman - and perhaps one absolute stud in Lawrence...
On a roster largely devoid of talent it's close to a no-brainer IMO. It's still a team game, and one standout WR does not make anyone a perennial contender; that is for certain.
That comes from the GM is my point or gets made to the GM who makes it ownership.
Coach to owner for trades only happens in New England IMO, because they don't have a GM.
Mara, Gettleman, and Shurmer were probably on board, but Tisch needed to be convinced the team would be/could be better on the field without Odell. Perhaps Shurmer was the best person to do that of the three. My problem would've been Shurmer isn't exactly Bill B., Bill P., Bill W., or Bill anything in terms of head coaching at this point in his career. That would've had to be some Powerpoint presentation for me to get over the fact it's being given by a head coach with a 31% winning percentage through 3 seasons.
That comes from the GM is my point or gets made to the GM who makes it ownership.
Coach to owner for trades only happens in New England IMO, because they don't have a GM.
In this specific case, it may be because Shurmur was the one who reportedly wanted OBJ kept around at the time of DG inking his big deal. DG reportedly was already looking to move on from OBJ a year ago, but Shurmur plead a case to keep him, right?
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...but there's a lot of truth in this one line:
"This team is a Barkley sore leg from being one of the worst teams in the League."
They are a Barkley sore leg away from having any Pro Bowlers or stars (well maybe Engram?) but moving Beckham for 3 guys that might all be pretty good players - Lawrence, Peppers, and Xman - and perhaps one absolute stud in Lawrence...
On a roster largely devoid of talent it's close to a no-brainer IMO. It's still a team game, and one standout WR does not make anyone a perennial contender; that is for certain.
Hernadez and Zeitler May Be Pro Bowl level. And who cares about the Pro Bowl. If our OL player well together and stud team wins That’s the goal.
OBJ didn’t help the team win shit. Peppers Andy Zeitler are an upgrade over a fantasy guy who plays 8-12 games a year and can help the team
Seems reasonable for a trade of that magnitude and the amount of dead money they are going to eat.
They basically threw away 20mil of the owners money by signing him then trading him.
The Giants paid 22M for 12 games of Beckham. No matter what the Giants got in exchange, the owner deserves to be advised on that.
If the coach had a PPT ready to whip out for a trade -- that doesn't quite align with the story that the Browns approached the Giants, blew them away, and by dinner Beckham was a Brown.
Nothing good would come from that coming to the light of day.
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1400 is not out of the question either.
I think he's going to kill it, too. And be a total pain in the ass the entire time... ;)
1200 yds, and then completely dissappear in a playoff game lodd.
Football's Carmela Anthony,