or been in a position to, but I recently made acquaintances with someone who works for the NYR org. We were at a social function in town having a few beers together. Nothing too concrete, but a few takeaways from the conversation...
-he thinks Kreider is probably a goner. They need the cap space and there's demand in the market for a guy like him. Obviously that's something that anyone could put together, but he seemed to have a bit of force behind this opinion/inclination.
-Staal is not going anywhere. (this is the point that he seemed most definitive about, fwiw). The org is aware of what he is at this point, but they still absolutely love the person and he has been nothing short of tremendous in the locker room in terms of culture, embracing the rebuild, and truly working with the young kids.
-would not be at all surprised to see them invest in moving Smith (whether it be a buyout, accepting less in a Kreider trade to attach Smith, separate trade to move Smith by attaching some other asset).
-no inside baseball on Strome, but thinks he probably stays because it's not enough salary space to justify the loss of experience. He's nothing special, but the team does need a quorum of seasoned pros in the room and on the ice.
I've heard that about Staal in a lot of interviews with former Rangers, usually on podcasts. Just that he's a really great locker room presence, really funny guy, important to have in the room. While he's obviously overpaid, hopefully being able to finally slot him in further down in the lineup will make his deficiencies less obvious
or been in a position to, but I recently made acquaintances with someone who works for the NYR org. We were at a social function in town having a few beers together. Nothing too concrete, but a few takeaways from the conversation...
-he thinks Kreider is probably a goner. They need the cap space and there's demand in the market for a guy like him. Obviously that's something that anyone could put together, but he seemed to have a bit of force behind this opinion/inclination.
-Staal is not going anywhere. (this is the point that he seemed most definitive about, fwiw). The org is aware of what he is at this point, but they still absolutely love the person and he has been nothing short of tremendous in the locker room in terms of culture, embracing the rebuild, and truly working with the young kids.
-would not be at all surprised to see them invest in moving Smith (whether it be a buyout, accepting less in a Kreider trade to attach Smith, separate trade to move Smith by attaching some other asset).
-no inside baseball on Strome, but thinks he probably stays because it's not enough salary space to justify the loss of experience. He's nothing special, but the team does need a quorum of seasoned pros in the room and on the ice.
Thanks for the info, Hoya. Def. Stay in contact with this dude. We're lacking a Rangers asshat ever since Seth left.
if they have to move Kredier, though I hope there's another way. But I really hate the idea of taking less for him just to take on Smith. Bury Smith in the minors and save a million, accept futures for Kreider and save 4 there. That should get us pretty close to what we need. I'd be pretty annoyed if we move Kreider but don't get full value just to move Smith's albatross.
Regardless, Kreider won't be that much with one year left Â
or get rid of some D-men contracts or some combo of each, then it's probably going to be Kreider. Especially if they feel like $7M per is an overpay to extend him, and if he won't access significantly less.
Staal could be traded tomorrow and nobody should be shocked. I trust that the person I spoke with was being honest with me, but his role with the team isn't hockey-related. He's got some really neat access from an interaction perspective, but he's not part of the aparatus that makes hockey decisions, just for the record.
"Let’s get this out of the way: The Rangers are not going to sign Kevin Shattenkirk, the 28-year-old righty who has been (incorrectly) linked to Broadway since the 2016 trade deadline. Management is not diving in with anything remotely in line with the long-term contract the New Rochelle native is going to command. Indeed, several league sources believe that Shattenkirk has a $49M offer coming his way. It won’t be from Gorton."
RE: Reminder what Uncle Larry said a few years ago: Â
"Let’s get this out of the way: The Rangers are not going to sign Kevin Shattenkirk, the 28-year-old righty who has been (incorrectly) linked to Broadway since the 2016 trade deadline. Management is not diving in with anything remotely in line with the long-term contract the New Rochelle native is going to command. Indeed, several league sources believe that Shattenkirk has a $49M offer coming his way. It won’t be from Gorton."
Both great players, but there are a lot better deals out there. I'm also not convinced Trouba is a #1 dman.
In Trouba's case, yeah - I can see that.
I think Panarin is a good contract though. It's costly, but I think we'll get a good return on it. He should be this player for almost the entire life of the deal barring a career-altering injury or something unexpected. I don't think we'll get into the 2nd half or late part of it and feel like he's an anchor or anything like that.
and drop Namenstikov, Strome, Staal and Smith/Shattenkirk.
bingo!
Thirded!
After reading hoya’s post, I am now accepting the fact that Staal will be a member of the Rangers this year. Let’s hope for the others to be gone.
I really hope not. Just attach an asset and trade him to a team he will go to. I mean we just saw Milan Lucic and David Clarkson get traded and they have worse contracts than Staal.
RE: I'm nervous about having ~$20 million tied up in Trouba/Panarin. Â
Both great players, but there are a lot better deals out there. I'm also not convinced Trouba is a #1 dman.
It depends on your expectations for a #1D.
He was 13th in D points last year with much less of his points coming on the PP than people ahead of him like Krug or Yandle (who is a PP machine).
He's defensively responsible, has good size, and is not afraid to hit or block shots.
There are only a handful of defenseman I say are easily better two-way defenseman than him.
The biggest questions I've heard about him are how will he fare outside of Byfuglien's shadow.
I think he'll thrive.
But I always like the American D. Seth Jones, Zack Werenski, Charlie McAvoy, Trouba, Gostibehere, Carlson, Hanifin, Faulk, etc. so I'm sure I'm a little biased.
RE: RE: I'm nervous about having ~$20 million tied up in Trouba/Panarin. Â
Both great players, but there are a lot better deals out there. I'm also not convinced Trouba is a #1 dman.
It depends on your expectations for a #1D.
He was 13th in D points last year with much less of his points coming on the PP than people ahead of him like Krug or Yandle (who is a PP machine).
He's defensively responsible, has good size, and is not afraid to hit or block shots.
There are only a handful of defenseman I say are easily better two-way defenseman than him.
The biggest questions I've heard about him are how will he fare outside of Byfuglien's shadow.
I think he'll thrive.
But I always like the American D. Seth Jones, Zack Werenski, Charlie McAvoy, Trouba, Gostibehere, Carlson, Hanifin, Faulk, etc. so I'm sure I'm a little biased.
What do you mean by that outside of Byfuglien's shadow? He was paired with Josh Morrissey a lot of the time, no?
Both great players, but there are a lot better deals out there. I'm also not convinced Trouba is a #1 dman.
It depends on your expectations for a #1D.
He was 13th in D points last year with much less of his points coming on the PP than people ahead of him like Krug or Yandle (who is a PP machine).
He's defensively responsible, has good size, and is not afraid to hit or block shots.
There are only a handful of defenseman I say are easily better two-way defenseman than him.
The biggest questions I've heard about him are how will he fare outside of Byfuglien's shadow.
I think he'll thrive.
But I always like the American D. Seth Jones, Zack Werenski, Charlie McAvoy, Trouba, Gostibehere, Carlson, Hanifin, Faulk, etc. so I'm sure I'm a little biased.
What do you mean by that outside of Byfuglien's shadow? He was paired with Josh Morrissey a lot of the time, no?
Meaning he wasn't the #1 D on WIN. Byfuglien was #1 RD, so Trouba had less pressure on him - didn't always play against the other teams top line b/c the Byfuglien pair did.
But Byfuglien only played 42 games last year so people who watched learned Trouba can absolutely play the hard minutes and not sacrifice offense or give up anything defensively.
Trouba IMO is what people thought McDonagh would become.
I like Trouba a lot. I like Panarin a lot. I'm just nervous with the big money deals. Once 2021 rolls around, they'll be flush with cap space again, though.
It's the percentage of cap space they take up that may be an issue if they don't perform. The cap will go up so their percentage will shrink and if they're playing at a high level, 20 mil won't be much of an issue.
I like Trouba a lot. I like Panarin a lot. I'm just nervous with the big money deals. Once 2021 rolls around, they'll be flush with cap space again, though.
Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but I would not worry about those two. Both contracts end when the players are 34 and 32 respectively. You get the prime years and in theory no later years drag that you sometimes have to live with to get the prime years.
Gorton did well with both of these IMO.
I agree Gorton had a great offseason and both of those deals are good Â
my question with the rangers is the coach and how the org will do developing and getting the most out of what they've accumulated. Last year they had much better talent than their record IMO. Obviously it was just the guys first year in the NHL and it's just 1 data point, but to me it's probably their biggest variable in the near-medium term.
-he thinks Kreider is probably a goner. They need the cap space and there's demand in the market for a guy like him. Obviously that's something that anyone could put together, but he seemed to have a bit of force behind this opinion/inclination.
-Staal is not going anywhere. (this is the point that he seemed most definitive about, fwiw). The org is aware of what he is at this point, but they still absolutely love the person and he has been nothing short of tremendous in the locker room in terms of culture, embracing the rebuild, and truly working with the young kids.
-would not be at all surprised to see them invest in moving Smith (whether it be a buyout, accepting less in a Kreider trade to attach Smith, separate trade to move Smith by attaching some other asset).
-no inside baseball on Strome, but thinks he probably stays because it's not enough salary space to justify the loss of experience. He's nothing special, but the team does need a quorum of seasoned pros in the room and on the ice.
-he thinks Kreider is probably a goner. They need the cap space and there's demand in the market for a guy like him. Obviously that's something that anyone could put together, but he seemed to have a bit of force behind this opinion/inclination.
-Staal is not going anywhere. (this is the point that he seemed most definitive about, fwiw). The org is aware of what he is at this point, but they still absolutely love the person and he has been nothing short of tremendous in the locker room in terms of culture, embracing the rebuild, and truly working with the young kids.
-would not be at all surprised to see them invest in moving Smith (whether it be a buyout, accepting less in a Kreider trade to attach Smith, separate trade to move Smith by attaching some other asset).
-no inside baseball on Strome, but thinks he probably stays because it's not enough salary space to justify the loss of experience. He's nothing special, but the team does need a quorum of seasoned pros in the room and on the ice.
Thanks for the info, Hoya. Def. Stay in contact with this dude. We're lacking a Rangers asshat ever since Seth left.
bingo!
Quote:
and drop Namenstikov, Strome, Staal and Smith/Shattenkirk.
bingo!
Thirded!
Quote:
In comment 14502560 Davisian said:
Quote:
and drop Namenstikov, Strome, Staal and Smith/Shattenkirk.
bingo!
Thirded!
After reading hoya’s post, I am now accepting the fact that Staal will be a member of the Rangers this year. Let’s hope for the others to be gone.
I would. No one wants Staal or his contract. Plus, he has a NMC.
Quote:
Staal could be traded tomorrow and nobody should be shocked.
I would. No one wants Staal or his contract. Plus, he has a NMC.
LOL - totally fair. poorly worded. I just meant to put my comments in the correct light. I would indeed be shocked based on what a bad contract it is.
*SethInAstoria
Too bad he was wrong.
In Trouba's case, yeah - I can see that.
I think Panarin is a good contract though. It's costly, but I think we'll get a good return on it. He should be this player for almost the entire life of the deal barring a career-altering injury or something unexpected. I don't think we'll get into the 2nd half or late part of it and feel like he's an anchor or anything like that.
Quote:
In comment 14504827 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14502560 Davisian said:
Quote:
and drop Namenstikov, Strome, Staal and Smith/Shattenkirk.
bingo!
Thirded!
After reading hoya’s post, I am now accepting the fact that Staal will be a member of the Rangers this year. Let’s hope for the others to be gone.
I really hope not. Just attach an asset and trade him to a team he will go to. I mean we just saw Milan Lucic and David Clarkson get traded and they have worse contracts than Staal.
It depends on your expectations for a #1D.
He was 13th in D points last year with much less of his points coming on the PP than people ahead of him like Krug or Yandle (who is a PP machine).
He's defensively responsible, has good size, and is not afraid to hit or block shots.
There are only a handful of defenseman I say are easily better two-way defenseman than him.
The biggest questions I've heard about him are how will he fare outside of Byfuglien's shadow.
I think he'll thrive.
But I always like the American D. Seth Jones, Zack Werenski, Charlie McAvoy, Trouba, Gostibehere, Carlson, Hanifin, Faulk, etc. so I'm sure I'm a little biased.
Quote:
Both great players, but there are a lot better deals out there. I'm also not convinced Trouba is a #1 dman.
It depends on your expectations for a #1D.
He was 13th in D points last year with much less of his points coming on the PP than people ahead of him like Krug or Yandle (who is a PP machine).
He's defensively responsible, has good size, and is not afraid to hit or block shots.
There are only a handful of defenseman I say are easily better two-way defenseman than him.
The biggest questions I've heard about him are how will he fare outside of Byfuglien's shadow.
I think he'll thrive.
But I always like the American D. Seth Jones, Zack Werenski, Charlie McAvoy, Trouba, Gostibehere, Carlson, Hanifin, Faulk, etc. so I'm sure I'm a little biased.
What do you mean by that outside of Byfuglien's shadow? He was paired with Josh Morrissey a lot of the time, no?
No, I think he's a top pairing dman, but not a #1 guy. If Miller or someone else develop into that, it'd be great and a non-issue.
I don't think either contract is 'bad'. But other teams have better bargains. Kravtsov/Kappo being real bargains will help mitigate it.
Both Panarin/Trouba have prime years left. If we can get 4/5 70+ point seasons out of Panarin before a decline, that'd be great.
Quote:
In comment 14506094 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Both great players, but there are a lot better deals out there. I'm also not convinced Trouba is a #1 dman.
It depends on your expectations for a #1D.
He was 13th in D points last year with much less of his points coming on the PP than people ahead of him like Krug or Yandle (who is a PP machine).
He's defensively responsible, has good size, and is not afraid to hit or block shots.
There are only a handful of defenseman I say are easily better two-way defenseman than him.
The biggest questions I've heard about him are how will he fare outside of Byfuglien's shadow.
I think he'll thrive.
But I always like the American D. Seth Jones, Zack Werenski, Charlie McAvoy, Trouba, Gostibehere, Carlson, Hanifin, Faulk, etc. so I'm sure I'm a little biased.
What do you mean by that outside of Byfuglien's shadow? He was paired with Josh Morrissey a lot of the time, no?
Meaning he wasn't the #1 D on WIN. Byfuglien was #1 RD, so Trouba had less pressure on him - didn't always play against the other teams top line b/c the Byfuglien pair did.
But Byfuglien only played 42 games last year so people who watched learned Trouba can absolutely play the hard minutes and not sacrifice offense or give up anything defensively.
Trouba IMO is what people thought McDonagh would become.
Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but I would not worry about those two. Both contracts end when the players are 34 and 32 respectively. You get the prime years and in theory no later years drag that you sometimes have to live with to get the prime years.
Gorton did well with both of these IMO.
As Wilson Phillips said, just hold on for one more day
As Wilson Phillips said, just hold on for one more day
This assumes no buyouts for the defensemen.
Quote:
Namestnikov and Beleskey will be coming off the books in 2020 and Henrik, Staal, Shattenkirk and Smith will be coming off the books in 2021.
As Wilson Phillips said, just hold on for one more day
This assumes no buyouts for the defensemen.
Right