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NFT: Buying PC Advice sought

Jay in Toronto : 7/19/2019 5:27 pm
Greetings,

My 5 year-old-desktop PC is on its last legs. I've been trying to educate myself on advances in the past 5 years.
My needs:

1. I am a memory hog -- I often have multiple programs open (Excel, Word, 12 Tabs in Chrome etc) so I'm figuring the more RAM (I now have 8) the better. I'll go 16 I figure.

2. I have my TV directly connected to my video port where I stream off the web. Some have advised me to get a separate video card for this purpose and would use my RAM more efficiently. (Another possibility is getting the VEGA11 that is integrated with the Ryzen 5 2400G or 3400G, maximizing value).

There are shops here where you can buy components and they will build a unit. That might be the best value and flexibility.

Some believe that #2 does not apply and I should just save $ and get an integrated board like the Intel 630. Or a faster CPU and a real el-cheapo graphics card.

Any advice would be appreciated.

If you can suggest a particular array of components for good value (memory, case, power etc, that would be particularly appreciated :)

As well, looking toward the future, what ports should be mandatory? USBC?

TIA
I have a 10 year old PC...  
vonritz : 7/19/2019 5:45 pm : link
Hooked up to my TV via cat5 and have no major problems with video (I have dual monitors going all the time). I get some funkiness for a couple seconds when I first start a vid, but that's it. A good video card, say $200+, will easily do the job solo. I think an 8G vid card is good. Go with 32G of ram while you're at it. I7 chip. You can get a future proofed machine for $1500 tops.
Go to YouTube  
CardinalX : 7/19/2019 5:54 pm : link
There are numerous videos on building pics. I say this because they will give component prices and component importance so you can measure that vs either what you end up either buying or paying someone to build. A non gaming PC should be obtainable for $500 relatively easy. And expandable for future upgrades
Thanks guys  
Jay in Toronto : 7/19/2019 6:19 pm : link
$1500 USD is probably about 50% more than I had initially budgeted.

That's why I thought the Ryzon would be the way to go
I don't know if this will help as I'm a Mac guy - not pc. But I just  
Ira : 7/19/2019 6:25 pm : link
got a new Mac Mini and found that with the more recent memory, 8 gb is enough where I used to use 16. So, you might want to start out with 8 and the capability of adding 8 more should you really need it.
I had a brand new Mac mini a few years ago...  
vonritz : 7/19/2019 6:45 pm : link
And it crashed or locked up constantly while connected to TV and monitor. Never again. PC handles home audio infinitely better.
RE: Thanks guys  
Gmen703 : 7/19/2019 8:06 pm : link
In comment 14502588 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
$1500 USD is probably about 50% more than I had initially budgeted.

That's why I thought the Ryzon would be the way to go


Ryzen has the better band for your buck. The newer processors look promising and the top of the line previous generation are at deep discounts. Definitely go for the increased RAM. Most people barely use 8 gb but 16 for you seems reasonable.
Depends on what you are using but for the above apps you listed 8gb  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 7/19/2019 8:41 pm : link
Should be enough memory and 16 more than enough. When you say last legs what is the issue? What are the specs on the current machine? I’d think a desktop from 2014 can handle office and chrome (even with many tabs open). A wipe/reinstall fixes many issues or upgrade of one part may get things running good as new.

If you go the new pc route...I just built a pc this year and for storage I’d definitely recommend getting an NVMe SSD which connects directly on the motherboard on a PCIe bus. Lighting fast. I went with 500 gb Samsung 970 pro and also have a 2 tb traditional ssd as a secondary disk. AMD cpus and Radeon gpus are good value.
Memories:  
KeoweeFan : 7/19/2019 8:41 pm : link
- a friend who was a Xerox employee had Star computer, with a mouse and icons, that he used to keep the stats of our youth soccer team. We all agreed it was an interesting novelty. (Their Palo Alto Lab gave away the technology for free to a young visiting techie.)

- I was part of a group of "executives" that were invited to Cornell for a technical review by a Chemistry Professor who tried to impress us by saying that previous students had to use calculators to solve problems (all her visitors used slide rules) but she predicted that desk top computers would eventually be on every professional's desk. We rode back home agreeing how ridiculous academics were.

- My first company computer that I could take home was a Compaq Portable. We called them "Luggables". (I actually got a life long back problem from carrying and leaning over that machine.) It had (2) 5" drives; one for the program and the second for the data.

- Later, personal computers for $ 1500 in current dollars would have been a bargain.

If you need more proof that I am an old fart with opinions 40 years old, let me know and I'll provide more evidence.
Thin margins...  
trueblueinpw : 7/19/2019 9:07 pm : link
Build you one shops are probably going to be more than buying direct from Dell. Check out the scratch and dent, any of the PC online companies like Lenovo or HP or Dell will have specials. If you’re near a Microcenter they usually have open box and refurbs.

I’d get an i7 and 16 GB of RAM and 1TB SSD (less if you’ll have secondary storage like a NAS or external HD). I think you’ll be fine with a 2 to 4GB video card. Probably don’t even need that much if all you’re doing is watching video.
Myself (Dell, HP)  
Jay in Toronto : 7/19/2019 11:08 pm : link
And friends (Lenovo) have had issues with just about every major brand.

Something appeals to me about knowing/choosing every component.

But of course, once I have the bottom line, I'll compare.

If I go off-shelf, it seems like a major decision is whether I get an integrated board, the Ryzen, or a video board with an I3 or equivalent.
i have built  
FranchiseQB : 7/19/2019 11:54 pm : link
two custom rigs for video editing. actually i spec'd out with a friend and had another friend do the build. i would get at least 64gb of ram/ absolutely nothing lower than 32. get a video card with hdmi out you will be fine going to a tv,
trueblueinpw  
Jay in Toronto : 7/20/2019 10:02 am : link
Didn't know what you were referring to in Microcenter being in Canada LOL

Am travelling to DC and maybe NYC soon. DO they build as well? Do they have knowledgeable staff to advise or is it more of a depot?

And I just realized I would have to buy Windows 10 separately.
RE: trueblueinpw  
trueblueinpw : 7/20/2019 10:21 am : link
In comment 14502825 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
Didn't know what you were referring to in Microcenter being in Canada LOL

Am travelling to DC and maybe NYC soon. DO they build as well? Do they have knowledgeable staff to advise or is it more of a depot?

And I just realized I would have to buy Windows 10 separately.


I don’t thank no they’re in Canada. It’s just a retailer, the staff at the one here in my town are okay, but honestly, I’ve been in the business longer than most of them have been alive so I don’t ask them much more than stock location questions.

I can’t tell, are you looking for a rig to watch video or to edit video? If you’re watching video, I stand by the Dell recommendation but would add that I only ever buy their Optiplex and Lattitude lines because they are business class machines. The business class lines are engineered with specific parts and designed for long MTTF. With the consumer lines your looking at what the companies can put together with spot market parts. So, the consumer stuff, Apple excepted, tend have more problems. If you have someone put something together for you, and if they’re good at what they do, they should be able to engineer something that will last a long time.
Jay  
JerseyCityJoe : 7/20/2019 12:16 pm : link
Go to Costco and pick up Dell for about $900- and be done with it.
Thanks Trueblue  
Jay in Toronto : 7/20/2019 12:51 pm : link
I had a horrible experience with Dell on the personal consumer side but be willing to consider the business side.

In looking in to Optiplex, it would be interesting to consider refurbished. Have you done that? It doesn't look like I could do a whole lot better than my current i5-3400, but my computer is a sick puppy.

An example below. A somewhat upgrade on cpu, double the RAM and an SSD. I'd like to have the newer USB ports, though.


example - ( New Window )
RE: Memories:  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/20/2019 1:17 pm : link
In comment 14502658 KeoweeFan said:
Quote:
- a friend who was a Xerox employee had Star computer, with a mouse and icons, that he used to keep the stats of our youth soccer team. We all agreed it was an interesting novelty. (Their Palo Alto Lab gave away the technology for free to a young visiting techie.)

I assume you’re referring to the famous Steve Jobs visit to Xerox PARC. A lot of what happened has become popular myth. They weren’t given any technology, any rights, or a version of the Alto. They got a demo - that’s all. And even that wasn’t for free - they got the rights to pre-IPO Apple stock, from which they made several million dollars.

For that matter it’s not like Apple didn’t know about the Alto and what it did. They had a former PARC employee working for them as well as others who had seen and used it. The Apple Lisa and Mac projects were already underway and building on the concepts Xerox pioneered. The biggest thing the visits did was fully open Jobs’ eyes to the possibilities and he got fully behind the projects.

Of course Jobs could have also just watched Xerox’s ad featuring the Alto. Broadcast in 1972 when Jobs was in high school:

Xerox Alto - ( New Window )
I always buy refurbs...  
trueblueinpw : 7/20/2019 1:38 pm : link
Either Dells or Macs. But, I’m in the business and if something breaks I can part it and fix it myself. Having said that, I’ve never had one of my refurbs fail. The truth about PCs is they’re generally overbuilt as software tend to lag years behind OS capability (see 16 bit operating systems, e.g.). But most companies have three year refresh cycles for their leased PCs and that’s almost certainly what you’re seeing with that Best Buy refurbed Opti. So, the downside is that there may be a lot of hours on the machine and that can wear down the heatsinks and mechanical fans. If something goes on the refurb it will be the power supply (though those are sometimes replaced as part of the refurbish) or you’ll see the processor overheat which generally results in an OS abend (shut down or restart or blue screen). But here again, many refurbs now will replace the heatsink elements as part of the refurb.

I know you don’t have Micro Center there but if Best But does an extended warranty that may hedge against failure. But it also will probably eat your savings. I have no experience with BB watery, but Micro Center is excellent. I do find BB customer service to be very good, excellent compared to most other retailers.

If you look at Dells refurbs you might get a good refurb and maybe consider an extended warranty from them. Check out outlet.us.dell.com and make sure you’re looking at the for work section. The precision workstations are good too.
KeoweeFan and Trueblue  
Jay in Toronto : 7/20/2019 2:17 pm : link
My claim to fame as an old-timer (besides doing my PhD on punch cards on a main-frame) is that I am an original Osborne owner. :)

Thanks for the advice.  
Jay in Toronto : 7/20/2019 2:39 pm : link
I am now leaning towards (in this possible order of alternatives):

a. Buying and SSD drive and Windows 10 and having someone install them and clean up my system.

I have two free slots. I imagine it would be prudent to add some DDR3 RAM

b. Buying a refurb

c.A new build

I'd love to get one at COSTCO with the 2 year-warranty, but they don't sell business Dell.
Try the upgrade first...  
trueblueinpw : 7/20/2019 7:39 pm : link
A new SSD and more RAM along with a clean and proper install of Windows 10 should drastically speed up your box. If you have a free slot then toss in a new video card. Should be fast enough but if not you could use the new parts (maybe not the RAM) on a new rig.
Thanks everyone!!  
Jay in Toronto : 7/21/2019 12:07 pm : link
I have a recommendation on a local PC repair/build place.

I will start with his evaluation of my box. If there is nothing fatal I will proceed with SSD, Windows 10 and appropriate RAM.

It would be nice if some contemporary USB and Wifi Can be added.

Much appreciated for all the excellent help.

GO GIANTS!! (and Badgers, Rangers and Yanks)
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