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Phil Simms: 'Multiple' teams were set to take Jones before17

V.I.G. : 7/21/2019 8:25 pm
Phil Simms: 'Multiple' teams were set to take Daniel Jones before No. 17

My best guess is still DEN. Simms describes his confidence / sources in strong language.
Hope heís right - ( New Window )
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At the time I really hated the Jones pick because I felt his arm  
BlueLou'sBack : 7/22/2019 12:53 am : link
was clearly inferior to Haskins and especially Drew Lock's arm.

But I don't, we don't, and vast majority of the TV draft pundits don't know shit about the players' characters and personality and what's in their mind and hearts, and that shit matters way more in the determination of an NFL player (given of course they pass the basic physical athletic requirements of their positions).

I still think Jones' arm does not rival Haskins' or Lock's... so what? From various reports, Jones is well ahead of the other two on getting his playbook down, and Shurmur supposedly has a larger and more complex playbook than average in the NFL.

He seems to be a fit, the best fit, for Shurmur. And as much as some here might not like it, you can bet that PS is here at least through 2020 unless things really fall apart like under MacAdoo.
RE: At the time I really hated the Jones pick because I felt his arm  
Nine-Tails : 7/22/2019 1:47 am : link
In comment 14503459 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
was clearly inferior to Haskins and especially Drew Lock's arm.

But I don't, we don't, and vast majority of the TV draft pundits don't know shit about the players' characters and personality and what's in their mind and hearts, and that shit matters way more in the determination of an NFL player (given of course they pass the basic physical athletic requirements of their positions).

I still think Jones' arm does not rival Haskins' or Lock's... so what? From various reports, Jones is well ahead of the other two on getting his playbook down, and Shurmur supposedly has a larger and more complex playbook than average in the NFL.

He seems to be a fit, the best fit, for Shurmur. And as much as some here might not like it, you can bet that PS is here at least through 2020 unless things really fall apart like under MacAdoo.


Drew Lock is a very flawed prospect. Sure he has an eye-popping arm and is a good athlete, which makes some people see him as poor-mans Mahomes as a prospect, but he just has so many flaws. Also, he was definitely not Denver's top qb. Denver passed on the chance to draft him three times. You would think a team with no long-term answer wouldn't pass on their number one guy that many times.
I liked Drew Lock in the draft  
Milton : 7/22/2019 2:50 am : link
But I felt he had a salesman's personality from his interview at the combine. He was too smooth, the kind of guy who has an answer/excuse for everything.
RE: I liked Drew Lock in the draft  
BlueLou'sBack : 7/22/2019 2:58 am : link
In comment 14503468 Milton said:
Quote:
But I felt he had a salesman's personality from his interview at the combine. He was too smooth, the kind of guy who has an answer/excuse for everything.


Yup. And Haskins' shtick with the video breakdown was too gussied up for my taste. Jones was more real, less trumped up. But still a wee bit nervous about his arm strength.
Iíll say it again  
Giant John : 7/22/2019 5:20 am : link
Jones by no means has a weak arm. People saying that are just wrong.
I don't think he has a weak arm either, but he doesn't have a strong  
Ira : 7/22/2019 5:31 am : link
arm.
My son is a big college football fan and he told me about Jones early  
idinkido : 7/22/2019 5:35 am : link
on the college season. We were talking college QBs and he came out with that he thought Jones could be the best of the lot. He told me that Jones was carrying one of the worse teams in college football on his back. If Haskins had played at Duke, he would have gotten killed behind that OL, and if he did manage to get off a pass, his receivers would have probably dropped it. Jones is mobile, his legs get him out of trouble and he can pass accurately on the move.
No longer  
Big Blue '56 : 7/22/2019 6:23 am : link
matters.
A large percentage of threads may not matter  
Jimmy Googs : 7/22/2019 6:27 am : link
but still attract conversation...
RE: I don't think he has a weak arm either, but he doesn't have a strong  
Jimmy Googs : 7/22/2019 6:29 am : link
In comment 14503474 Ira said:
Quote:
arm.


Just glad he has two...
RE: A large percentage of threads may not matter  
Big Blue '56 : 7/22/2019 6:48 am : link
In comment 14503483 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
but still attract conversation...


Agreed. To expand on my comment, thereís no way of proving whoís early radar he was on and heís here now. He either has it or he doesnít. The few media people I listen to, like him. We assume Shurmur does, which is most important. Still, doing it on a professional football field is all that matters obviously.
The topic is interesting to discuss because the Giants  
Jimmy Googs : 7/22/2019 6:54 am : link
had that second #1 pick
RE: RE: Denver - Pitt Trade  
mfsd : 7/22/2019 7:11 am : link
In comment 14503424 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14503420 Samiam said:


Quote:


Didnít that trade come after the Jones pick? If yes, writer said Pitt would have passed. How does he know what Denver would have done? For that matter, he goes down the list of teams picking. How does he know who would trade up?


Yes. That trade came immediately following the Jones pick. But the writer completely ignores Denver as a possibility in his analysis. Which is fine, it doesnít matter anyways. John Elway could come out tomorrow and tell the world that he was drafting Jones if he was available and the same posters that called Gettleman a liar would say that Elway is lying too.

Think about that. Giants fans that have absolutely no clue what was going down came out and blatantly called Gettleman a liar. Simply because they didnít like the pick. Great fans we have. Whatís next, we boo Jones while heís attending a Yankee game? Oh wait, we did that too...


Yuo. A good number of Giants fans did not distinguish themselves with their reaction to the Jones pick.

Having a different opinion, disagreeing with decisions the Giants make? All reasonable. But a bunch of fans acted like insufferable crybabies about it.
The rumors were Denver and the 'Skins. The Broncos had the 10th  
Ira : 7/22/2019 7:50 am : link
pick, but traded out after we drafted Jones. Since both teams ended up with qb's, neither will admit that they really wanted a different qb.
It's either sink or swim  
micky : 7/22/2019 7:52 am : link
Thats all that matters from here on out
I guess the guy writing the article  
cjac : 7/22/2019 8:01 am : link
completely forgot about Denver.

They traded back right after Jones was picked at 6.

it was actually a good play by them, sit tight and see if he falls, if not acquire more picks knowing Pittsburgh wants to trade up for a guy.

i'm 95% sure Denver would have taken Jones if he was there
Where there is smoke, there's fire  
Rong5611 : 7/22/2019 8:05 am : link
I doubt he would have made it to #17 based on the rumors. That said, I almost threw my remote when we passed on Josh Allen like many of us.

But, based on the reports from the various team activities/mini-camps, I've been impressed so far with Jones, especially handles himself well with the media and how he's approaching his opportunity. I really like his mobility. Has better arm strength that we thought.

I'm very interested in watching him in the preseason. Have to think he will start the first two. If not, I'm sure he will play alot. We'll learn a great deal about him in the next 45 days.

So far, so good.

Eh, you see it every year  
Cenotaph : 7/22/2019 8:23 am : link
When a pick differs from where the common perception of where a guy 'should' go happens, there's a backlash of "Well, they could have traded down and got him later". If you really believe that's your guy, you take him when you have the chance, especially at QB. If we had picked Haskins there wouldn't have been much drama because pundits had him 'rated' better. Well, DEN trading back indicates they weren't sold on Haskins either - and as mentioned the article ignores the DEN trade. CIN, DEN, WAS were all definite possibilities, as were dark horses like PIT (the 2004 draft QB teams all need to be thinking about the next guy).

End of the day, Giants got criticized for passing on a QB one year (never mind for a player that was rated as best in the draft and certainly looks like it), then slammed for taking the 'wrong' QB or by not getting enough value through a trade down. I personally think Murray is a big risk at QB also, but no one questions that one (even though they had just drafter a QB in the top-10 last year) because it was widely known before hand that ARI was going for Murray. It lined up with the pundits expectations so was a 'good' pick. If Jones works out, he and SB could be the core of a very good team hopefully for years. If not, well then the criticism is deserved - but we won't know for years which is why these snap 'draft grade' exercises are dumb - it's really more a grade on how close realty was to the mock drafts, except the mocks are used as the basis to compare.
RE: I don't think he has a weak arm either, but he doesn't have a strong  
PatersonPlank : 7/22/2019 8:31 am : link
In comment 14503474 Ira said:
Quote:
arm.


He actually does have a pretty good arm
The Denver..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/22/2019 8:33 am : link
trade with Pitt was made for a couple of reasons if you believe the chatter.

Both Denver and Cincy liked Jones. Once he was off the board, Pitt knew that Cincy had their eye set on Bush. Denver just lost their chance to get Jones, so they were fine trading back with Pittsburgh. Pitt jumped up and snatched Bush

The Cincy beat writers have been brutal on the Bengals for telegraphing wanting Jones and Bush. Reminds me a lot of the Ross days!!
I listened to the Cufcliffe interview  
johnnyb : 7/22/2019 8:41 am : link
On WFAN I believe a week after the draft. He insisted there were at least two teams that would have taken Jones before the Giants picked again at 17. I guess he has motivation to not tell the whole truth but he was rather convincing. Does it matter now? Nope. Jones is our QB of the future, like it or not, and as a fan I will route for him to succeed.

I do remember some backlash when Simms was taken. Imagine what BBI would have been like if this site existed in 1978!
...  
christian : 7/22/2019 8:53 am : link
The draft is so dynamic, any number of things could have played out if the Giants hadn't picked Jones.

Who knows what trades or surprises could have gone down. Nothing is certain between picks 7-17 in the NFL draft.

Piling on a first round where the Giants drafted a top rated corner, defensive tackle, and quarterback, comes off as either hate for hate's sake on Gettleman or disappointment the draft didn't align with a mock draft.
FWIW  
V.I.G. : 7/22/2019 9:12 am : link
I'm sold on Jones for the '19 QB Class.

The question will come down to whether we should have taken any QB at all or waited til '20 to take one of those QBs. Hypothetically, if Eli plays well enough in '19 that we draft too high or we can't take or trade up for one of the 20 QBs, then Eli would have been extended anyway in '20. If he doesn't we get one of those '20 QBs. We won't know the correct answer to that until '22/3.

Anyway, I hope DJ is the goods.

/Kirk out/
I don't know how Jones will turn out but it would have been  
Blue21 : 7/22/2019 9:48 am : link
a high risk to wait to 2020. First of all they probably would n't have been in position to get a QB or one better than Jones risk.
RE: I listened to the Cufcliffe interview  
M.S. : 7/22/2019 9:58 am : link
In comment 14503520 johnnyb said:
Quote:
I do remember some backlash when Simms was taken. Imagine what BBI would have been like if this site existed in 1978!


Wait... wasn't I posting on BBI in 1978? (:-)
RE: I don't know how Jones will turn out but it would have been  
Jay on the Island : 7/22/2019 10:06 am : link
In comment 14503592 Blue21 said:
Quote:
a high risk to wait to 2020. First of all they probably would n't have been in position to get a QB or one better than Jones risk.

This, for some reason we kept seeing posters say "just wait until 2020 to get a QB." They acted as if it would easy to obtain one of the QB's without knowing where the Giants would finish this season. They are very unlikely to be in a position to draft Tua or Fromm. They would not only need to trade a kings ransom to trade up for them, they would also need the teams to be willing to trade the picks. It is more than likely that those teams will also need a long term answer at QB and will not be willing to make a trade.
I don't know if Jones is any good  
NoPeanutz : 7/22/2019 10:20 am : link
But I am 100% convinced that Jones would have been gone by 17. Denver, Cincinnati and Miami all were public about their need for QBs, and nobody picked one after Jones went off the board. Chances are good that the Washington coaches also had Jones above Haskins, if those other 4 teams (NYG, DEN, MIA, CIN) did.
RE: RE: I don't know how Jones will turn out but it would have been  
Jimmy Googs : 7/22/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14503614 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14503592 Blue21 said:


Quote:


a high risk to wait to 2020. First of all they probably would n't have been in position to get a QB or one better than Jones risk.


This, for some reason we kept seeing posters say "just wait until 2020 to get a QB." They acted as if it would easy to obtain one of the QB's without knowing where the Giants would finish this season. They are very unlikely to be in a position to draft Tua or Fromm. They would not only need to trade a kings ransom to trade up for them, they would also need the teams to be willing to trade the picks. It is more than likely that those teams will also need a long term answer at QB and will not be willing to make a trade.


Not this.

I am not advocating delaying to 2020 was a better alternative, but also don't recall posters being so casual about the risk associated with waiting nor saying it would be easy. There were some good threads debating the options including but not limited to some of your hypothetical likelys & unlikelys.

Hopefully the main reason (if not sole) they didn't wait is because DG/front office really believe Daniel Jones is their next guy.

Lets hope they were correct...
RE: If it wasnít obvious before  
short lease : 7/22/2019 11:19 am : link
In comment 14503414 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
It is now, Jones was legitimate first round prospect and one or two on most teams boards. The media and fans didnít think much of him and just used the Cutcliffe connection. The backlash was the most Iíve seen in a long time, and teams distanced themselves from this to increase the criticism at the Giants.


"The backlash was the most Iíve seen in a long time"

Yeah me too ... probably since the 70's when they took Phil Simms.

; )
RE: The rumors were Denver and the 'Skins. The Broncos had the 10th  
RobCarpenter : 7/22/2019 11:24 am : link
In comment 14503497 Ira said:
Quote:
pick, but traded out after we drafted Jones. Since both teams ended up with qb's, neither will admit that they really wanted a different qb.


The Skins' coaches may have wanted him but Danny wanted Haskins.

In any event, the two teams before #17 who wanted Jones are likely Denver and Cincy. Denver trading AFTER the Giants' pick is beyond obvious as to what they wanted to do. Anything they say now is just spin, actions speak louder than words.

In my own opinion  
lax counsel : 7/22/2019 1:05 pm : link
After reading a lot of what was written about Jones, and having watched a lot of his old game film, I'm fairly confident that NFL scouts had Jones a lot more highly regarded than in the media.

If he becomes a top 10 qb in the league, you will see more narrative that Jones would have been gone by 17 and the savvy of DG and the Giants. If he stinks, it will go the other way.
Was Jones at #6  
PEEJ : 7/22/2019 1:14 pm : link
really a bigger surprise than Clennin Farrell at #4 ?
As Eric  
darren in pdx : 7/22/2019 1:18 pm : link
pointed out at the time, the Giants did exactly what people said they should do when there were reports that they liked Jones the best out of the QBs a few days before the draft. The reports were that they'd go defense at 6 and then Jones at 17.

People argued that if they like any QB at all they should take them at 6 to make sure they got him. They did that because they realised they wouldn't be able to take him later and the blow-back was enormous.
RE: ...  
Mike in NY : 7/22/2019 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14503451 HitSquad said:
Quote:
The Buffalo Bills were anticipating that the Bengals were going to trade up from 11 to 9 take Daniel Jones in front of the Broncos who were picking at 10.

So Phil might be on to something.
Inside the Bills Draft Room - ( New Window )


Cincy did take Ryan Finley in Round 4 and a lot of the same negatives that people said about Jones they also said about Finley although there were plenty of other reasons Finley lasted until the 4th Round. I do agree that the Giants needed to come out of this draft with a QB. The question will be whether they needed to take Jones at 6 or would they have been better off taking Allen and then seeing how the chips fall with Lock or Grier. At this point I can't say that one option is clearly better. After reading Sy's report I did look over some more on Allen and I could see what Sy was saying. There is definitely the possibility that Allen is more of an Olivier Vernon-type that works as a 4-3 DE but, despite his size, really does not translate to 3-4 OLB
RE: Daniel Jones agent was convinced he would be picked prior to 17  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/22/2019 1:51 pm : link
In comment 14503405 George from PA said:
Quote:
And they usually know.

I was most surprised he was at the draft, most projected 2nd round 63 Madden rating players don't do that. They knew he was going high.

Quite possible DG played the entire league, possibly got Jets GM canned for not getting a haul of picks. Refreshing change of pace from Reese constantly getting jumped. Almost certainly a leaky FO.
RE: RE: Daniel Jones agent was convinced he would be picked prior to 17  
Mike in NY : 7/22/2019 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14503932 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14503405 George from PA said:


Quote:


And they usually know.


I was most surprised he was at the draft, most projected 2nd round 63 Madden rating players don't do that. They knew he was going high.

Quite possible DG played the entire league, possibly got Jets GM canned for not getting a haul of picks. Refreshing change of pace from Reese constantly getting jumped. Almost certainly a leaky FO.


The entire league knew we liked DJ and nobody would risk losing a QB you liked that much at 6. I think the bigger issues for the Jets were Bell plus not getting someone from 8-13 to trade up. I think a number of them probably liked Clelin Ferrell if they were not going QB but expected him to be around with their pick and then the Raiders happened.
RE: ...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/22/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14503451 HitSquad said:
Quote:
The Buffalo Bills were anticipating that the Bengals were going to trade up from 11 to 9 take Daniel Jones in front of the Broncos who were picking at 10.

So Phil might be on to something.
Inside the Bills Draft Room - ( New Window )

Pretty much conclusively sums it up.
I said it here before to the we need to cut Eli crowd if we drafted  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/22/2019 2:06 pm : link
a QB crowd. You can't cut Eli and not scream to the league you aren't taking a QB. So yeh we paid Eli, but it saved us a lot of draft picks as we didn't have to trade up. That roster bonus was put in the contract for this very reason, it put the Giants in a bad spot as far as cutting him post draft and there is a reason why Eli's agent is considered the best in the business.
And if it was clear that the Giants were taking Jones at 6  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/22/2019 2:07 pm : link
you don't think the Bengals and Broncos would have possible tried to work out something for the 3/4/5th pick? Nobody knew what the hell the Giants were doing, but waaaah DG lied to us.
Shit you gotta think the Raiders would have gladly taken an offer  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/22/2019 2:09 pm : link
for 4 for even a lowball offer. They clearly loved Ferrell and the odds of him being available there would have been high I'm assuming.
And the Bills weren't anticipating  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/22/2019 2:10 pm : link
They were openly discussing a trade back to 11, hinging on the Giants selection in the video.
I hated the pick.  
Klaatu : 7/22/2019 2:20 pm : link
Not because I didn't like Jones or liked another QB more, I didn't want the Giants to draft a QB at all this year. I wanted them to build a stronger team around Eli and try to make another run at a championship (even if that meant a one or two year extension for him after this year}. I simply wasn't ready to give up on him. So, yeah, I was pissed. I even wrote a song about how pissed I was, how much I didn't like the pick.

The thing is...fifteen years ago I didn't like the Giants trading for Eli. I wasn't ready to give up on Kerry Collins, but even if I was, Ben Roethlisberger was there for the taking without giving up any picks (I didn't like Rivers at all. He reminded me of Bernie Kosar and I hated Bernie Kosar). Ideally, I would have liked the Giants to draft Sean Taylor in the 1st and Matt Schaub in the 2nd.

Anyway, what's done is done. Jones is a Giant now and I'm resigned to the fact that this is most likely Eli's last year in blue. It really doesn't matter to me if any other team wanted Jones or not. If Gettleman thought he was the goods, so be it. It's his call. I hope he made the right one.
Multiple teams were set to take Jones before17  
Torrag : 7/22/2019 3:07 pm : link
This has been pretty obvious for months now. All the blowback when Gettelman said as much after the draft was a dead giveaway. Followed up by Cutcliffe's comments of the same vein.

It's irrelevant to the young man's career and I honestly believe DG doesn't give two shits what anyone outside of the Giants franchise thinks. All that matters now is that he proves himself over a long and productive career.
RE: The dumbest thing in the article was the Miami statement  
djm : 7/22/2019 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14503421 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Miami was interested but that was before they traded for Rosen.

Um, they didn't trade for Rosen until late in the second round, well before Jones was taken. WTF does them trading for Rosen have to do with them potentially being interested in Jones and possibly taking them. The Jets were interested in Dan Marino but that was before they selected Sam Darnold. That makes about the same sense as that Miami sentence.


More hack shit take journalism at its worst. The writer actually tried to poke holes in what Simms was selling. And why not? Why on earth would anyone want to know the truth? Shit sells so just keep on stirring it.

I canít even talk the jones pick with many people who immediately go into a tirade as they all feed off this crap. I just say ok, youíre right, but maybe jones will be good. I donít even have the energy anymore.
RE: And if it was clear that the Giants were taking Jones at 6  
Mike in NY : 7/22/2019 5:23 pm : link
In comment 14503946 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
you don't think the Bengals and Broncos would have possible tried to work out something for the 3/4/5th pick? Nobody knew what the hell the Giants were doing, but waaaah DG lied to us.


Raiders and Bucs were pretty set on who they were taking unless Quinnen Williams fell. I think the failure to trade down to 10 or 11 is one of the reasons Jets GM was fired. My guess is he overplayed his hand and both teams said they would rather take the risk that Jones was not there later on (Buffalo was fine with Oliver or one of the Clemson DL based on an interview I heard later on so the move from 9 to 11 was merely bonus picks for either drafting the player they would have taken at 9 or at least one on the same tier so really were not expecting full trade value to get it done).
RE: There are those  
djm : 7/22/2019 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14503435 darren in pdx said:
Quote:
that still say the Eli Manning trade was poor, despite winning two Super Bowls. There will be those that will say the pick was bad value even if Jones is a very good QB. Itís all bull and hot air.


I have a friend who is one of those hyper critical fans. In his warped negative view he insists that Eli was an average qb. Anyway, heís already said that for jones to validate the pick he has to be ďgreat.Ē

Then I got tired and ignored everything else but he was kind of enough to admit that Eli had two great playoff runs. Other than that, average.

This is the kind of fan you canít argue with. And there are 1000s just like him. This guy will never ever ever ever give jones his due because he was the 6th pick and he should have gone 17th or 30th. This guy also hated the Eli trade but softened on it thx to the two rings.

Fans are too smart for their own good and really dumb at the same time.
Never forget...  
dep026 : 7/22/2019 5:31 pm : link
Quote:
Heís fucking horrible
Josh in the City : 4/25/2019 10:57 pm : link
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesnít get any worse. Fire gettleman!
RE: RE: RE: I don't know how Jones will turn out but it would have been  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 7/25/2019 3:04 pm : link
Quote:


Not this.

I am not advocating delaying to 2020 was a better alternative, but also don't recall posters being so casual about the risk associated with waiting nor saying it would be easy. There were some good threads debating the options including but not limited to some of your hypothetical likelys & unlikelys.

Hopefully the main reason (if not sole) they didn't wait is because DG/front office really believe Daniel Jones is their next guy.

Lets hope they were correct...


Yes there was some debate, but there were aslso some posters that spoke about 2020 as if it was a sure-fire QB jackpot for the Giants.

Anyway, I'm glad we can move on and let this kid prove what he's got.

He's far from a certainty, but honestly Haskins has some weaknesses as does Darnold. Im comfortable with the choice.
I think it's clear Elway was eyeing Jones at #10  
JonC : 7/25/2019 3:15 pm : link
and I'd heard Cincy was also eyeing him. I think the Redskins preferred Haskins but were also going to strongly consider Jones if Haskins was gone.
I think we really only know what a few GMs have said  
Jimmy Googs : 7/25/2019 4:43 pm : link
and clearly one or more of them is lying...
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