a high risk to wait to 2020. First of all they probably would n't have been in position to get a QB or one better than Jones risk.
This, for some reason we kept seeing posters say "just wait until 2020 to get a QB." They acted as if it would easy to obtain one of the QB's without knowing where the Giants would finish this season. They are very unlikely to be in a position to draft Tua or Fromm. They would not only need to trade a kings ransom to trade up for them, they would also need the teams to be willing to trade the picks. It is more than likely that those teams will also need a long term answer at QB and will not be willing to make a trade.
Not this.
I am not advocating delaying to 2020 was a better alternative, but also don't recall posters being so casual about the risk associated with waiting nor saying it would be easy. There were some good threads debating the options including but not limited to some of your hypothetical likelys & unlikelys.
Hopefully the main reason (if not sole) they didn't wait is because DG/front office really believe Daniel Jones is their next guy.
It is now, Jones was legitimate first round prospect and one or two on most teams boards. The media and fans didn’t think much of him and just used the Cutcliffe connection. The backlash was the most I’ve seen in a long time, and teams distanced themselves from this to increase the criticism at the Giants.
"The backlash was the most I’ve seen in a long time"
Yeah me too ... probably since the 70's when they took Phil Simms.
; )
RE: The rumors were Denver and the 'Skins. The Broncos had the 10th Â
pick, but traded out after we drafted Jones. Since both teams ended up with qb's, neither will admit that they really wanted a different qb.
The Skins' coaches may have wanted him but Danny wanted Haskins.
In any event, the two teams before #17 who wanted Jones are likely Denver and Cincy. Denver trading AFTER the Giants' pick is beyond obvious as to what they wanted to do. Anything they say now is just spin, actions speak louder than words.
After reading a lot of what was written about Jones, and having watched a lot of his old game film, I'm fairly confident that NFL scouts had Jones a lot more highly regarded than in the media.
If he becomes a top 10 qb in the league, you will see more narrative that Jones would have been gone by 17 and the savvy of DG and the Giants. If he stinks, it will go the other way.
pointed out at the time, the Giants did exactly what people said they should do when there were reports that they liked Jones the best out of the QBs a few days before the draft. The reports were that they'd go defense at 6 and then Jones at 17.
People argued that if they like any QB at all they should take them at 6 to make sure they got him. They did that because they realised they wouldn't be able to take him later and the blow-back was enormous.
The Buffalo Bills were anticipating that the Bengals were going to trade up from 11 to 9 take Daniel Jones in front of the Broncos who were picking at 10.
So Phil might be on to something.
Inside the Bills Draft Room - ( New Window )
Cincy did take Ryan Finley in Round 4 and a lot of the same negatives that people said about Jones they also said about Finley although there were plenty of other reasons Finley lasted until the 4th Round. I do agree that the Giants needed to come out of this draft with a QB. The question will be whether they needed to take Jones at 6 or would they have been better off taking Allen and then seeing how the chips fall with Lock or Grier. At this point I can't say that one option is clearly better. After reading Sy's report I did look over some more on Allen and I could see what Sy was saying. There is definitely the possibility that Allen is more of an Olivier Vernon-type that works as a 4-3 DE but, despite his size, really does not translate to 3-4 OLB
RE: Daniel Jones agent was convinced he would be picked prior to 17 Â
I was most surprised he was at the draft, most projected 2nd round 63 Madden rating players don't do that. They knew he was going high.
Quite possible DG played the entire league, possibly got Jets GM canned for not getting a haul of picks. Refreshing change of pace from Reese constantly getting jumped. Almost certainly a leaky FO.
RE: RE: Daniel Jones agent was convinced he would be picked prior to 17 Â
I was most surprised he was at the draft, most projected 2nd round 63 Madden rating players don't do that. They knew he was going high.
Quite possible DG played the entire league, possibly got Jets GM canned for not getting a haul of picks. Refreshing change of pace from Reese constantly getting jumped. Almost certainly a leaky FO.
The entire league knew we liked DJ and nobody would risk losing a QB you liked that much at 6. I think the bigger issues for the Jets were Bell plus not getting someone from 8-13 to trade up. I think a number of them probably liked Clelin Ferrell if they were not going QB but expected him to be around with their pick and then the Raiders happened.
The Buffalo Bills were anticipating that the Bengals were going to trade up from 11 to 9 take Daniel Jones in front of the Broncos who were picking at 10.
So Phil might be on to something.
Inside the Bills Draft Room - ( New Window )
Pretty much conclusively sums it up.
I said it here before to the we need to cut Eli crowd if we drafted Â
a QB crowd. You can't cut Eli and not scream to the league you aren't taking a QB. So yeh we paid Eli, but it saved us a lot of draft picks as we didn't have to trade up. That roster bonus was put in the contract for this very reason, it put the Giants in a bad spot as far as cutting him post draft and there is a reason why Eli's agent is considered the best in the business.
And if it was clear that the Giants were taking Jones at 6 Â
you don't think the Bengals and Broncos would have possible tried to work out something for the 3/4/5th pick? Nobody knew what the hell the Giants were doing, but waaaah DG lied to us.
Shit you gotta think the Raiders would have gladly taken an offer Â
Not because I didn't like Jones or liked another QB more, I didn't want the Giants to draft a QB at all this year. I wanted them to build a stronger team around Eli and try to make another run at a championship (even if that meant a one or two year extension for him after this year}. I simply wasn't ready to give up on him. So, yeah, I was pissed. I even wrote a song about how pissed I was, how much I didn't like the pick.
The thing is...fifteen years ago I didn't like the Giants trading for Eli. I wasn't ready to give up on Kerry Collins, but even if I was, Ben Roethlisberger was there for the taking without giving up any picks (I didn't like Rivers at all. He reminded me of Bernie Kosar and I hated Bernie Kosar). Ideally, I would have liked the Giants to draft Sean Taylor in the 1st and Matt Schaub in the 2nd.
Anyway, what's done is done. Jones is a Giant now and I'm resigned to the fact that this is most likely Eli's last year in blue. It really doesn't matter to me if any other team wanted Jones or not. If Gettleman thought he was the goods, so be it. It's his call. I hope he made the right one.
This has been pretty obvious for months now. All the blowback when Gettelman said as much after the draft was a dead giveaway. Followed up by Cutcliffe's comments of the same vein.
It's irrelevant to the young man's career and I honestly believe DG doesn't give two shits what anyone outside of the Giants franchise thinks. All that matters now is that he proves himself over a long and productive career.
RE: The dumbest thing in the article was the Miami statement Â
Miami was interested but that was before they traded for Rosen.
Um, they didn't trade for Rosen until late in the second round, well before Jones was taken. WTF does them trading for Rosen have to do with them potentially being interested in Jones and possibly taking them. The Jets were interested in Dan Marino but that was before they selected Sam Darnold. That makes about the same sense as that Miami sentence.
More hack shit take journalism at its worst. The writer actually tried to poke holes in what Simms was selling. And why not? Why on earth would anyone want to know the truth? Shit sells so just keep on stirring it.
I can’t even talk the jones pick with many people who immediately go into a tirade as they all feed off this crap. I just say ok, you’re right, but maybe jones will be good. I don’t even have the energy anymore.
RE: And if it was clear that the Giants were taking Jones at 6 Â
you don't think the Bengals and Broncos would have possible tried to work out something for the 3/4/5th pick? Nobody knew what the hell the Giants were doing, but waaaah DG lied to us.
Raiders and Bucs were pretty set on who they were taking unless Quinnen Williams fell. I think the failure to trade down to 10 or 11 is one of the reasons Jets GM was fired. My guess is he overplayed his hand and both teams said they would rather take the risk that Jones was not there later on (Buffalo was fine with Oliver or one of the Clemson DL based on an interview I heard later on so the move from 9 to 11 was merely bonus picks for either drafting the player they would have taken at 9 or at least one on the same tier so really were not expecting full trade value to get it done).
that still say the Eli Manning trade was poor, despite winning two Super Bowls. There will be those that will say the pick was bad value even if Jones is a very good QB. It’s all bull and hot air.
I have a friend who is one of those hyper critical fans. In his warped negative view he insists that Eli was an average qb. Anyway, he’s already said that for jones to validate the pick he has to be “great.”
Then I got tired and ignored everything else but he was kind of enough to admit that Eli had two great playoff runs. Other than that, average.
This is the kind of fan you can’t argue with. And there are 1000s just like him. This guy will never ever ever ever give jones his due because he was the 6th pick and he should have gone 17th or 30th. This guy also hated the Eli trade but softened on it thx to the two rings.
Fans are too smart for their own good and really dumb at the same time.
He’s fucking horrible
Josh in the City : 4/25/2019 10:57 pm : link
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn’t get any worse. Fire gettleman!
RE: RE: RE: I don't know how Jones will turn out but it would have been Â
I am not advocating delaying to 2020 was a better alternative, but also don't recall posters being so casual about the risk associated with waiting nor saying it would be easy. There were some good threads debating the options including but not limited to some of your hypothetical likelys & unlikelys.
Hopefully the main reason (if not sole) they didn't wait is because DG/front office really believe Daniel Jones is their next guy.
Lets hope they were correct...
Yes there was some debate, but there were aslso some posters that spoke about 2020 as if it was a sure-fire QB jackpot for the Giants.
Anyway, I'm glad we can move on and let this kid prove what he's got.
He's far from a certainty, but honestly Haskins has some weaknesses as does Darnold. Im comfortable with the choice.
I think it's clear Elway was eyeing Jones at #10 Â
Quote:
a high risk to wait to 2020. First of all they probably would n't have been in position to get a QB or one better than Jones risk.
This, for some reason we kept seeing posters say "just wait until 2020 to get a QB." They acted as if it would easy to obtain one of the QB's without knowing where the Giants would finish this season. They are very unlikely to be in a position to draft Tua or Fromm. They would not only need to trade a kings ransom to trade up for them, they would also need the teams to be willing to trade the picks. It is more than likely that those teams will also need a long term answer at QB and will not be willing to make a trade.
Not this.
I am not advocating delaying to 2020 was a better alternative, but also don't recall posters being so casual about the risk associated with waiting nor saying it would be easy. There were some good threads debating the options including but not limited to some of your hypothetical likelys & unlikelys.
Hopefully the main reason (if not sole) they didn't wait is because DG/front office really believe Daniel Jones is their next guy.
Lets hope they were correct...
"The backlash was the most I’ve seen in a long time"
Yeah me too ... probably since the 70's when they took Phil Simms.
; )
The Skins' coaches may have wanted him but Danny wanted Haskins.
In any event, the two teams before #17 who wanted Jones are likely Denver and Cincy. Denver trading AFTER the Giants' pick is beyond obvious as to what they wanted to do. Anything they say now is just spin, actions speak louder than words.
If he becomes a top 10 qb in the league, you will see more narrative that Jones would have been gone by 17 and the savvy of DG and the Giants. If he stinks, it will go the other way.
People argued that if they like any QB at all they should take them at 6 to make sure they got him. They did that because they realised they wouldn't be able to take him later and the blow-back was enormous.
So Phil might be on to something.
Inside the Bills Draft Room - ( New Window )
Cincy did take Ryan Finley in Round 4 and a lot of the same negatives that people said about Jones they also said about Finley although there were plenty of other reasons Finley lasted until the 4th Round. I do agree that the Giants needed to come out of this draft with a QB. The question will be whether they needed to take Jones at 6 or would they have been better off taking Allen and then seeing how the chips fall with Lock or Grier. At this point I can't say that one option is clearly better. After reading Sy's report I did look over some more on Allen and I could see what Sy was saying. There is definitely the possibility that Allen is more of an Olivier Vernon-type that works as a 4-3 DE but, despite his size, really does not translate to 3-4 OLB
I was most surprised he was at the draft, most projected 2nd round 63 Madden rating players don't do that. They knew he was going high.
Quite possible DG played the entire league, possibly got Jets GM canned for not getting a haul of picks. Refreshing change of pace from Reese constantly getting jumped. Almost certainly a leaky FO.
Quote:
And they usually know.
I was most surprised he was at the draft, most projected 2nd round 63 Madden rating players don't do that. They knew he was going high.
Quite possible DG played the entire league, possibly got Jets GM canned for not getting a haul of picks. Refreshing change of pace from Reese constantly getting jumped. Almost certainly a leaky FO.
The entire league knew we liked DJ and nobody would risk losing a QB you liked that much at 6. I think the bigger issues for the Jets were Bell plus not getting someone from 8-13 to trade up. I think a number of them probably liked Clelin Ferrell if they were not going QB but expected him to be around with their pick and then the Raiders happened.
So Phil might be on to something.
Inside the Bills Draft Room - ( New Window )
Pretty much conclusively sums it up.
The thing is...fifteen years ago I didn't like the Giants trading for Eli. I wasn't ready to give up on Kerry Collins, but even if I was, Ben Roethlisberger was there for the taking without giving up any picks (I didn't like Rivers at all. He reminded me of Bernie Kosar and I hated Bernie Kosar). Ideally, I would have liked the Giants to draft Sean Taylor in the 1st and Matt Schaub in the 2nd.
Anyway, what's done is done. Jones is a Giant now and I'm resigned to the fact that this is most likely Eli's last year in blue. It really doesn't matter to me if any other team wanted Jones or not. If Gettleman thought he was the goods, so be it. It's his call. I hope he made the right one.
It's irrelevant to the young man's career and I honestly believe DG doesn't give two shits what anyone outside of the Giants franchise thinks. All that matters now is that he proves himself over a long and productive career.
Um, they didn't trade for Rosen until late in the second round, well before Jones was taken. WTF does them trading for Rosen have to do with them potentially being interested in Jones and possibly taking them. The Jets were interested in Dan Marino but that was before they selected Sam Darnold. That makes about the same sense as that Miami sentence.
More hack shit take journalism at its worst. The writer actually tried to poke holes in what Simms was selling. And why not? Why on earth would anyone want to know the truth? Shit sells so just keep on stirring it.
I can’t even talk the jones pick with many people who immediately go into a tirade as they all feed off this crap. I just say ok, you’re right, but maybe jones will be good. I don’t even have the energy anymore.
Raiders and Bucs were pretty set on who they were taking unless Quinnen Williams fell. I think the failure to trade down to 10 or 11 is one of the reasons Jets GM was fired. My guess is he overplayed his hand and both teams said they would rather take the risk that Jones was not there later on (Buffalo was fine with Oliver or one of the Clemson DL based on an interview I heard later on so the move from 9 to 11 was merely bonus picks for either drafting the player they would have taken at 9 or at least one on the same tier so really were not expecting full trade value to get it done).
I have a friend who is one of those hyper critical fans. In his warped negative view he insists that Eli was an average qb. Anyway, he’s already said that for jones to validate the pick he has to be “great.”
Then I got tired and ignored everything else but he was kind of enough to admit that Eli had two great playoff runs. Other than that, average.
This is the kind of fan you can’t argue with. And there are 1000s just like him. This guy will never ever ever ever give jones his due because he was the 6th pick and he should have gone 17th or 30th. This guy also hated the Eli trade but softened on it thx to the two rings.
Fans are too smart for their own good and really dumb at the same time.
Josh in the City : 4/25/2019 10:57 pm : link
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn’t get any worse. Fire gettleman!
Not this.
I am not advocating delaying to 2020 was a better alternative, but also don't recall posters being so casual about the risk associated with waiting nor saying it would be easy. There were some good threads debating the options including but not limited to some of your hypothetical likelys & unlikelys.
Hopefully the main reason (if not sole) they didn't wait is because DG/front office really believe Daniel Jones is their next guy.
Lets hope they were correct...
Yes there was some debate, but there were aslso some posters that spoke about 2020 as if it was a sure-fire QB jackpot for the Giants.
Anyway, I'm glad we can move on and let this kid prove what he's got.
He's far from a certainty, but honestly Haskins has some weaknesses as does Darnold. Im comfortable with the choice.