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NFT: Wheeler (athletic) top 50 NHL Prospects

pjcas18 : 7/22/2019 10:14 am
Just one man's opinion and it's behind the Athletic paywall, but I usually like his stuff.

Players not eligible are those who played "significantly" last year, which is a little subjective, but removes players like Dahlin, Tkachuk, Kotkaniemi, Svechnikov, Chytil, etc.

To summarize for teams where BBI has fans (to the best of my knowledge)

Hughes #1 overall (seeming by a lot).

MTL: 3 (Suzuki #15, Caufield #25, Poehling #50)

NYR: 3 (Kakko #2, Fox #10 - he thinks Fox is a top pair D, Kravstov #36)

NYI: 3 (Dobson #21, Wahlstrom #45, Wilde #46)

PHI (I think someone here likes PHI) 3:(Cam York #24, Morgan Frost #32, Joel Farabee #35)

NJD: 2 (Hughes #1, Ty Smith, #40)

TOR: 1 (Rasmus Sandin #42)

COL (for Davisian): 3 (Makar #4, Bowen Byram #8, Alex Newhook #28)

Sorry Tony, No Capitals. But you have a cup so whatever.

No Bruins, no Penguins and no Lightning.

He did mention about 100 players could have been in the 30 - 50 range (including K'Andre Miller).


Link - ( New Window )
pj  
Jay on the Island : 7/22/2019 10:39 am : link
Is Jesper Boqvist in the top 100?
RE: pj  
pjcas18 : 7/22/2019 10:40 am : link
In comment 14503685 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Is Jesper Boqvist in the top 100?


I think he'd probably be there, but he only went to 50.
My mistake  
Jay on the Island : 7/22/2019 10:46 am : link
I misread the last line
for the Isles he mentioned Sorokin just being aged out since he's 23  
Eric on Li : 7/22/2019 10:48 am : link
so could have been 4. Isles system is in good shape to support the NHL team with Dobson likely phasing in somehow this year, fingers crossed on Sorokin next year when his contract expires, and most of their interesting F's/D set to be in the AHL this year. If they could just find a scoring upgrade with their cap room.
Why Colorado for Davisian?  
Anakim : 7/22/2019 10:51 am : link
.
K'Andre Miller will and should be up there before long  
Anakim : 7/22/2019 10:52 am : link
.
RE: Why Colorado for Davisian?  
pjcas18 : 7/22/2019 10:56 am : link
In comment 14503704 Anakim said:
Quote:
.


Just because he's local and probably gets a lot of Av's news and maybe even follows them to an extent.

I feel like i know a shit load more about the Bruins than I ever wanted or cared to know because I live here and my kids are fans.
RE: for the Isles he mentioned Sorokin just being aged out since he's 23  
Jay on the Island : 7/22/2019 10:56 am : link
In comment 14503699 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
so could have been 4. Isles system is in good shape to support the NHL team with Dobson likely phasing in somehow this year, fingers crossed on Sorokin next year when his contract expires, and most of their interesting F's/D set to be in the AHL this year. If they could just find a scoring upgrade with their cap room.

The Isles are obviously very high on Sorokin. IMO one of the main reasons they added Varlamov was to help convince Sorokin to come over next year when his KHL deal expires. I think he is going to be a star once he arrives next year.
No  
pjcas18 : 7/22/2019 10:59 am : link
goalies made the list.

So I wouldn't read into it.

I think Carter Hart made it last year, so I don't think he's immune to including them, but Hart was a 20-year old phenom.

If Spencer Knight isn't on here (and he's not) wouldn't think any goalie should feel bad about not being on it.
Igor > Ilya  
Anakim : 7/22/2019 11:00 am : link
.
RE: No  
Eric on Li : 7/22/2019 11:05 am : link
In comment 14503727 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
goalies made the list.

So I wouldn't read into it.

I think Carter Hart made it last year, so I don't think he's immune to including them, but Hart was a 20-year old phenom.

If Spencer Knight isn't on here (and he's not) wouldn't think any goalie should feel bad about not being on it.


Not reading into beyond what Wheeler said about Sorokin in his pre-amble:

Quote:
The age eligibility created a problem for one player in particular: 23-year-old goaltender Ilya Sorokin. Sorokin remains one of the top goalie prospects in the world after a .940 season for CSKA. He was included on my 2018 list. And while I could have used a different age cutoff for goalies than players, in the interest of simplicity and continuity in my ranking each summer, he was not made eligible for this year’s ranking.
RE: RE: for the Isles he mentioned Sorokin just being aged out since he's 23  
Eric on Li : 7/22/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14503719 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14503699 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


so could have been 4. Isles system is in good shape to support the NHL team with Dobson likely phasing in somehow this year, fingers crossed on Sorokin next year when his contract expires, and most of their interesting F's/D set to be in the AHL this year. If they could just find a scoring upgrade with their cap room.


The Isles are obviously very high on Sorokin. IMO one of the main reasons they added Varlamov was to help convince Sorokin to come over next year when his KHL deal expires. I think he is going to be a star once he arrives next year.


I think there's definitely some truth in that, but bigger than Sorokin I think they were trying to lure Panarin with Varlamov since they don't have any other russian players (same as they were rumored to be in on BOB expect obviously a lot cheaper). They all the same agent as well - Panarin, BOB, Varlamov, Sorokin (Paul Theofanous). Panarin really was such a perfect fit for what the Isles need. Huge kick in the nuts.
RE: RE: No  
pjcas18 : 7/22/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14503737 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14503727 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


goalies made the list.

So I wouldn't read into it.

I think Carter Hart made it last year, so I don't think he's immune to including them, but Hart was a 20-year old phenom.

If Spencer Knight isn't on here (and he's not) wouldn't think any goalie should feel bad about not being on it.



Not reading into beyond what Wheeler said about Sorokin in his pre-amble:



Quote:


The age eligibility created a problem for one player in particular: 23-year-old goaltender Ilya Sorokin. Sorokin remains one of the top goalie prospects in the world after a .940 season for CSKA. He was included on my 2018 list. And while I could have used a different age cutoff for goalies than players, in the interest of simplicity and continuity in my ranking each summer, he was not made eligible for this year’s ranking.



I just meant in general - not one goalie on the list.
RE: RE: RE: No  
Eric on Li : 7/22/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14503749 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


I just meant in general - not one goalie on the list.


Right but last year Sorokin was 1 of 3 on his list and he specifically spelled out that the other 2 dropped out due to graduation (Hart) and just getting passed over (Samsonov) while Sorokin could have been on the list if he hadn't aged out. I don't think it's a stretch to take that to mean Sorokin is his top G prospect currently and may have been the 1 goalie on his top 50 had he not been 23.
I think 40 is a little light for Ty Smith  
Stu11 : 7/22/2019 11:19 am : link
Only knock is his size, but I think he has a huge ceiling offensively.
Appreciate the work that goes into a column like this  
Metnut : 7/22/2019 11:42 am : link
but ranking Bouchard 5th and Dobson 21st is a joke.
RE: Appreciate the work that goes into a column like this  
Eric on Li : 7/22/2019 11:47 am : link
In comment 14503805 Metnut said:
Quote:
but ranking Bouchard 5th and Dobson 21st is a joke.


Wheeler has consistently liked Bouchard more, had him 7th pre-draft last year, and about 20 spots higher in his top 50 so he's just sticking by his eval. He could be right. He moved Dobson up almost 30 spots from last year's rank so while he's a little lower on him than others it's not obscene. The consensus has him somewhere between 10-20 overall so he's not far off that range. I suspect Pronman will have him closer to 10 since he's been higher on Dobson even going back to last year but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Both think he's one of the best young D not in the NHL yet.
Fuck the Av's  
Davisian : 7/22/2019 11:58 am : link
But yeah, I have to hear more about them than I care to.

Kravtsov  
Professor Falken : 7/22/2019 12:05 pm : link
at #36? Yeah, ok.
I think some people  
pjcas18 : 7/22/2019 12:47 pm : link
are too hung up on the numbers. Obviously as a fan we'd all like our guy to be ranked the highest, but it's not too meaningful.

If you had access to read the comments I think you'd see almost every top 50 prospect is expected to be an impact player or better.

And he's tiered things too that you can see in the article but i couldn't copy. Hughes and Kakko pretty much a notch above everyone. that a couple tiers basically with most players in them.

It's a data point, not an outcome.

But I like Wheeler's work.
RE: I think some people  
figgy2989 : 7/22/2019 12:50 pm : link
In comment 14503882 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
are too hung up on the numbers. Obviously as a fan we'd all like our guy to be ranked the highest, but it's not too meaningful.

If you had access to read the comments I think you'd see almost every top 50 prospect is expected to be an impact player or better.

And he's tiered things too that you can see in the article but i couldn't copy. Hughes and Kakko pretty much a notch above everyone. that a couple tiers basically with most players in them.

It's a data point, not an outcome.

But I like Wheeler's work.


100% agree, I mean what makes Kakko the #2 overall prospect ahead of a guy like Maker? It's his opinion and I think he did a pretty solid job with this list.
RE: I think some people  
Eric on Li : 7/22/2019 1:06 pm : link
In comment 14503882 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
are too hung up on the numbers. Obviously as a fan we'd all like our guy to be ranked the highest, but it's not too meaningful.

If you had access to read the comments I think you'd see almost every top 50 prospect is expected to be an impact player or better.

And he's tiered things too that you can see in the article but i couldn't copy. Hughes and Kakko pretty much a notch above everyone. that a couple tiers basically with most players in them.

It's a data point, not an outcome.

But I like Wheeler's work.


Agreed. It's funny with prospect lists we all get hung up to some degree of placement, meanwhile with established players (think about something like the NFL100 list every year) we all realize how subjective it is and that at the end of the day they are all good players. 1 year Landon Collins could be in the top 10 of that list, other years he's off it altogether. There's no exact science to how players end up producing excellent seasons in any sport and usually lots of factors are out of their control (coaching, role, supporting cast, etc).

It's just a good thing to have players who have talents + production that consistently stands out from their peers. Some will work out as expected, some will overachieve, some will underachieve. As you said the specific rankings are just a speculative data point, not an outcome.
Miller  
Jay in Toronto : 7/22/2019 4:05 pm : link
surprised me. Maybe cause of his injury?

Also keepers are hard to predict, so I won't question no Shesterkin
And I sure hope he's right about Fox  
Jay in Toronto : 7/22/2019 4:07 pm : link
Though I think in the long-run, Miller will be better
Yaroslav  
pjcas18 : 7/22/2019 4:11 pm : link
Askarov is supposed to be the next Hasek.

He could be a top 10 pick next year.


And Spencer Knight is the best positional goalie and puck handler I've seen since Price.

neither could pan out, that's how hard IMO it is to predict goalie success.

....  
BrettNYG10 : 7/22/2019 4:20 pm : link
Is Fox really supposed to be that good?

Thanks for sharing pj.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 7/22/2019 8:16 pm : link
In comment 14504072 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Is Fox really supposed to be that good?

Thanks for sharing pj.


Not sure. I didn't think so, but this guy knows better than I do.

I always thought of him as a lesser McAvoy, but clearly a good player.
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