Nothing really new here, and not sure I should even give this clicks but it's a slow news morning and figured the segment was worth a post.
I actually think Kellerman is better than most of the ESPN talking head trash-pile (not saying much), and I know he's a Giants fan. I think a lot of Giants fan share the sentiment even if they wouldn't put it so bluntly or state it so publicly. What say you BBI?
Kellerman: Eli Stinks - (
New Window )
What's the motivation here? What other athlete, current or past has segments saying they stink? It speaks more about the level of journalism than anything else.
We are out of the "shock jock" Era and in the Era of loudmouthed armchair guys. No accountability either. Skip Bayless can be wrong 99 times out of 100 and often is, yet as long as he gets clicks/views/ratings - it doesn't matter.
Assessing singular blame for a teams struggles just shows a true lack of IQ. The OL was shit. The defense was shit. We struggled in coaching and also with QB play.
When your a bad team - there’s plenty of blame to spread around, just not on a QB. The Giants have had one of the least talented roster in the NFL for nearly a decade. Throw in the mental case at WR last year and that didn’t help matters.
The disrespect being shown to BOTH of these men by so many people boggles my mind. Yes, Eli has played poorly at times but I'm in the camp that thinks he isn't done yet.
This is the year we find out for sure as I believe he has enough of a supporting cast now. Barring injury, if he can't play well with this cast then i'm wrong and he is in fact done.
Let it be known, Max told EVERYONE the day after the draft the Jones pick was an "epic failure."
I remember, do you guys? I'll hold him to that
But he's just one of many hacks who's going to be riding this hobby horse all season. God forbid they should have to think of anything original, or actually informative to write/say.
We all know this.
Give Eli time and he shines.
Let it be known, Max told EVERYONE the day after the draft the Jones pick was an "epic failure."
I remember, do you guys? I'll hold him to that
Um, why can't he have it both ways? You can believe that Eli is done and at the same time feel that Jones was a bad pick at 6 or not believe in Jones at all. These positions are not in conflict with one another at all.
Let it be known, Max told EVERYONE the day after the draft the Jones pick was an "epic failure."
I remember, do you guys? I'll hold him to that
Yes you can. You can fully recognize Eli is, likely, a bottom tiered QB while saying you have very low expectations for Daniel Jones. Max isn’t the only person who is a fan of the team to feel this way.
Eli deserves a share of the blame, but nothing like he gets day in and day out.
We would be a 3 Time SB winner if not for Plax shooting himself in the leg.
This. Max is a boxing guy. Would you ask John Madden about boxing?
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In one sense, you say Eli now stinks. Yet, on the other hand, you also said we are nuts for taking Daniel Jones at #6.
Let it be known, Max told EVERYONE the day after the draft the Jones pick was an "epic failure."
I remember, do you guys? I'll hold him to that
Yes you can. You can fully recognize Eli is, likely, a bottom tiered QB while saying you have very low expectations for Daniel Jones. Max isn’t the only person who is a fan of the team to feel this way.
I understand your point, but disagree in part. Certainly, if you view Eli as over the hill, there is evidence to support it; not arguing that fact. But Max is not a scout, was not at the combine, was not at Jones' pro day (which many experts claimed was near perfection), cannot read film, and probably never played a down of football in his life.
As a result, if you are going to take the "Eli is over the hill stance," AT LEAST give Jones a year or two to prove that he has the goods, or doesn't. I appreciate his boxing expertise. He is NOT a football guy. He's a talking head on ESPN.
I just don't see the point in crying that the Giants need to address QB. So they do with a premium pick, and he's going to cry about that too. It's like the person that complains about the NJ cold in the winter, and the NJ hot equally in the summer. He honestly has zero idea how Jones is going to be, so let's not peg the kid a bust day 1.
Let it be known, Max told EVERYONE the day after the draft the Jones pick was an "epic failure."
I remember, do you guys? I'll hold him to that
Sure you can. It actually makes perfect sense. Eli being finished is completely independent in thinking Jones was a poor choice at #6.
What's the motivation here? What other athlete, current or past has segments saying they stink? It speaks more about the level of journalism than anything else.
We are out of the "shock jock" Era and in the Era of loudmouthed armchair guys. No accountability either. Skip Bayless can be wrong 99 times out of 100 and often is, yet as long as he gets clicks/views/ratings - it doesn't matter.
It's not the reasons why Eli failed that cause me to feel like Eli is a bottom 3rd QB, it's the things he did that were unforced and the fact that all things being equal I still don't think he's a positive, he's at best IMO a neutral factor at this point.
He's not a good QB, and sure with a good OL, good running game, good receiving options, good defense and good coaching the Giants might succeed with Eli, but think of how many teams in the NFL actually have that? Very few. You're a good QB IMO when you can win without one or two of those and Eli just hasn't proven to be that.
I like Eli, I'm not a hater, but In a draft of all 32 expected starting QB's I think Eli is bottom 5 or 6 picked and he should be.
"2 time Super Bowl MVP" means absolutely zero for Eli Manning on the field in 2019.
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In one sense, you say Eli now stinks. Yet, on the other hand, you also said we are nuts for taking Daniel Jones at #6.
Let it be known, Max told EVERYONE the day after the draft the Jones pick was an "epic failure."
I remember, do you guys? I'll hold him to that
Sure you can. It actually makes perfect sense. Eli being finished is completely independent in thinking Jones was a poor choice at #6.
Nope, Eli being finished, or close to it, is in direct correlation for why we used a premium pick on QB this year. And to that, since Max really has ZERO evidence to suggest he knows more than multiple scouts that wanted Jones in the early to mid first round, how can he in good faith, with certainty claim "The Jones pick was awful." How? On what?
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I ask on these types of things is - "Why??"
What's the motivation here? What other athlete, current or past has segments saying they stink? It speaks more about the level of journalism than anything else.
We are out of the "shock jock" Era and in the Era of loudmouthed armchair guys. No accountability either. Skip Bayless can be wrong 99 times out of 100 and often is, yet as long as he gets clicks/views/ratings - it doesn't matter.
Why? Giant fans are suckers and soak this shit up. I saw this on ESPN, but I was not going to link it. Clicking on this nonsense does nothing but encourage them. Slow day on the sports scene, just make a negative comment about Eli, you will get plenty of clicks and get your editor off your back. FWIW it works here too, slow day on BBI, just start a negative thread about Eli and BOOM, instant views and countless replies. You and I are part of the problem, neither one of us can resist the urge to comment on any thread that has ELi in it. You can apply that same reasoning to all of our regulars... It is what it is.
You know - that's pretty dead on
I could not disagree more - respectfully of course - Eli used to have some of the best pocket fluidity in the game for years. He had enough of a rush evasion step or two to create that extra 0.5-1.5 seconds. He doesn't have that anymore - hopefully that's why he lost weight this year to get some of that back. But otherwise he's completely dead legged
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In comment 14504886 BillyM said:
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In one sense, you say Eli now stinks. Yet, on the other hand, you also said we are nuts for taking Daniel Jones at #6.
Let it be known, Max told EVERYONE the day after the draft the Jones pick was an "epic failure."
I remember, do you guys? I'll hold him to that
Sure you can. It actually makes perfect sense. Eli being finished is completely independent in thinking Jones was a poor choice at #6.
Nope, Eli being finished, or close to it, is in direct correlation for why we used a premium pick on QB this year. And to that, since Max really has ZERO evidence to suggest he knows more than multiple scouts that wanted Jones in the early to mid first round, how can he in good faith, with certainty claim "The Jones pick was awful." How? On what?
This is a bad take. Eli being finished and the Giants HAVING to take a QB and on top of that HAVING to take Jones at 6 are all not mutually exclusive.
You can believe that a) eli is finished as a QB that can lead you to a winning record
and b) Daniel Jones is not a quality QB prospect
or c) Daniel Jones does not have value at pick #6, but does represent value at a later pick.
or d) the Giants did need to take a QB but it should have been Haskins (for example).
all perfectly reasonable takes aka opinions.
Not saying I support any of them, but your rationale for rejecting Kellerman's opinion does not make sense.
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In comment 14504920 bw in dc said:
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In comment 14504886 BillyM said:
Quote:
In one sense, you say Eli now stinks. Yet, on the other hand, you also said we are nuts for taking Daniel Jones at #6.
Let it be known, Max told EVERYONE the day after the draft the Jones pick was an "epic failure."
I remember, do you guys? I'll hold him to that
Sure you can. It actually makes perfect sense. Eli being finished is completely independent in thinking Jones was a poor choice at #6.
Nope, Eli being finished, or close to it, is in direct correlation for why we used a premium pick on QB this year. And to that, since Max really has ZERO evidence to suggest he knows more than multiple scouts that wanted Jones in the early to mid first round, how can he in good faith, with certainty claim "The Jones pick was awful." How? On what?
This is a bad take. Eli being finished and the Giants HAVING to take a QB and on top of that HAVING to take Jones at 6 are all not mutually exclusive.
You can believe that a) eli is finished as a QB that can lead you to a winning record
and b) Daniel Jones is not a quality QB prospect
or c) Daniel Jones does not have value at pick #6, but does represent value at a later pick.
or d) the Giants did need to take a QB but it should have been Haskins (for example).
all perfectly reasonable takes aka opinions.
Not saying I support any of them, but your rationale for rejecting Kellerman's opinion does not make sense.
I agree with everything you are saying. But I refuse to agree that Max's take that Jones was the wrong pick at #6 was based on ANY tangible evidence that he did personal research on, scouting on, or had an inside scoop on. I don't believe it for a second. It was a knee jerk assessment based on what others were saying, the Mel Kiper's of the world.
Now, there IS evidence that Eli is declining, so I have no problem with that opinion. Go back and watch his highlights to Burress, posted a few weeks ago on BBI. He has nowhere close the arm he had back then.
I'm simply noting, that I am calling Max's bluff that he is SO CERTAIN Jones was not a good pick, and has bust written all over him. He's entitled to his opinion, and can certainly be right in both cases. But jeez, at least regarding Jones, come from a position of patience and expertise. Not sure he has either
Now that would be something!!!!
Kellerman was so good when he was strictly a local radio personality. His Giants takes were fresh and he didn't hold grudges or give guys breaks that came on his show.
No one has anything factual to say about Jones other than the Giants selected him at #6 overall. The rest as Joe Strummer says "is unwritten".
I hope Jones proves him and the other naysayers (like Ray Lucas - I wanted to punch him in the face) so wrong they do get called out for it.
Same with Eli, I'd love for Eli to prove his detractors (me included) wrong, but these are all opinions.
No one has anything factual to say about Jones other than the Giants selected him at #6 overall. The rest as Joe Strummer says "is unwritten".
I hope Jones proves him and the other naysayers (like Ray Lucas - I wanted to punch him in the face) so wrong they do get called out for it.
Same with Eli, I'd love for Eli to prove his detractors (me included) wrong, but these are all opinions.
Agreed.
Kerry Collins
YA Tittle
Kurt Warner
Phil Simms
One noticeable Giant omission.
I think the biggest difference b/w Brady and Eli is that short accuracy... That short accuracy has the benefit of quicker release times, higher completion %, and more YAC. Explains Brady's Net Yard/attempt (which factors sacks...)
PFR - ( New Window )
Kerry Collins
YA Tittle
Kurt Warner
Phil Simms
One noticeable Giant omission.
LOL. Collins instead of Eli? Fuck me.
This is the same guy who said Daniel Jones HAS to he a Hall of Famer to make up for being picked that high.
Eli deserves a share of the blame, but nothing like he gets day in and day out.
We would be a 3 Time SB winner if not for Plax shooting himself in the leg.
This is such a fantasy that Giants fans created. There is zero guarantee of that.
You should listen to it. He was highly effusive in his praise of Vintage Eli. Called the Manningham throw the greatest throw in SB history. This isn't a matter of hot takes. You can tell that he truly believes that you can no longer win with him.
You know who else agrees? Gettlemen in drafting Jones at 6.
For fun - here's the clip. Watch Eli's feet create the space necessary to step into the throw. Otherwise the guard would have been pushed into him and it would have been underthrown...
Eli / Mario SB - ( New Window )
I pretty much decided then and there that I'd be sure to ignore any of his future opinions going forward.
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Four "Giants" on the list
Kerry Collins
YA Tittle
Kurt Warner
Phil Simms
One noticeable Giant omission.
LOL. Collins instead of Eli? Fuck me.
Not only that, but Kurt Warner? WTF?
That said, from an efficiency standpoint, Eli actually had one of his better seasons in 2018. He completed a career-high 66 percent of his passes and threw only 11 interceptions.
He's clearly on the downside of his career. And to be frank, he would probably be better served being on another team that is "only" a QB short of being a contender.
But based on 2018, he doesn't "stink." He's still being vastly underrated, like has most of his career.