NFT: Yankees trade deadline discussion

with the other 22 year old all star/MVP potential middle infielders we have...

In comment 14512324 arniefez said:

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So will the Yankees. I wouldn't. He's redundant. They would miss him as much as they Andujar and Stanton this year.

Congratulations on the stupidest comment of the day

It's just a rumor at this stage though.

as currently constituted will win nothing in the post season with this starting pitching. The comments on that thought were about the same as the comments on trading Torres tonight.

I'm not interested in dumping him. I'm interested in trading him for an elite starter and an elite reliever only because they have the replacement pieces not to miss him.

No one is trading you pitchers like Garrett and Castillo for a few prospects.

I wouldn't trade Torres for Syndergaard. Certainly not for Stroman or Minor or Boyd. But I'd trade him for an ace and potential closer.

There is nothing coming in the system that's going to help anytime soon. They have a championship core with no ace and no plan to get an ace. If it takes Torres to do it so be it.

I'm lucky enough to have seen the Yankees win 7 times. But for most of you you're the Red Sox bitches.

You're literally the only one on BBI who wants the Yankees to win. You're the only one who wants an ace. Thank god you're around to enlighten us, bad fans.

In comment 14512354 arniefez said:

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as currently constituted will win nothing in the post season with this starting pitching. The comments on that thought were about the same as the comments on trading Torres tonight. I'm not interested in dumping him. I'm interested in trading him for an elite starter and an elite reliever only because they have the replacement pieces not to miss him. No one is trading you pitchers like Garrett and Castillo for a few prospects. I wouldn't trade Torres for Syndergaard. Certainly not for Stroman or Minor or Boyd. But I'd trade him for an ace and potential closer. There is nothing coming in the system that's going to help anytime soon. They have a championship core with no ace and no plan to get an ace. If it takes Torres to do it so be it. I'm lucky enough to have seen the Yankees win 7 times. But for most of you you're the Red Sox bitches.

And if Castillo’s season thus far is a fluke or he can’t handle NY? Then what? Not to mention, no plan to get an ace? You realize Cole is a FA and Strasburg likely will be as well. Ryu too. There’s three ways.

I know they shy away from these types of contracts, but there is a big need for a starter of his caliber. CC/Gardy/Chapman money (if Chappy opts out) could be put toward Cole. Obviously Didi needs a contract, too. If they come up short this year they're going to have to aim higher than the Paxtons and Grays of the world.

Hope that lying sack of shit never wins anything.

There is a point to be made:

The Yankees do not have a #2 or a #1 coming up in the system in the next 3 year window.

Before we say Garcia, there is less than a 50% chance he is a #1 inside 3 years.

There is a 50% chance Chapman is not elite in 3 years.

Pure conjecture...but that's allowed for decisions get made on conjecture ( anything with over a 30% chance of being right or wrong is considered conjecture in real business strategy and real war gaming).

Who do the Yankees have to trade now or offseason? the right answer is not our least favorite player its where do we have acceptable redundancy? Acceptable redundancy is not an equal player...its above MLB replacement level options

Stanton? ( id say yes)
Hicks ( nope)
Judge ( nope)
Didi ( Yes)
Torres ( yes
Andujar ( yes)
Frazier ( yes)
Gardner ( yes)
Voit ( eh...not hard to get 1B so id say yes)
Sanchez ( nope, not because he is not flawed but because the market for catchers is zilch)

Any pitchers redundant? Nope
Any relief pitchers redundant? Nope

Maybin? Obviously
Tauchman? Obviously
Encarcion? Obviously

Its not a fun thing to consider and its not advocacy but there is an old line that a great trade leaves both teams good and hopeful but in regret and concern for what they lost.

A great SP and a great RP are the hardest things to get in baseball

Lastly, looking over that list, Torres is one of the last possible redundant's id trade...imo

Before they came to NYY. Gray finished 3rd one year and Paxton when healthy was a top 10 arm in the AL.

It's not a given that someone with a pedigree is going to come here and pitch well.

In comment 14512374 Dunedin81 said:

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Before they came to NYY. Gray finished 3rd one year and Paxton when healthy was a top 10 arm in the AL. It's not a given that someone with a pedigree is going to come here and pitch well.

That is absolutely true. I was going to add that Cole better remember whatever the Houston coaches told him to do, because I don't want the Pittsburgh version.

They have brought in several solid to good pitchers in recent years who have completely fallen apart. At some point the pitching coach needs to be held responsible.

We'd have to package Andujar, Frazier, Florial and Garcia at this point to get a true front line starter, but I don't know if they are even available.

Of course we'd all love Cashman to package Adams, Wade, Acevedo and a bag of balls for some stud, but that ain't happening.

At this point, I'd rather just sit tight and hope Severino and Betances come back healthy at some point. If that doesn't happen, we are screwed anyway. Adding a Minor or Ray won't make any difference.

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In comment 14512380 nygmen84 said:

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If HOU gets Wheeler he'll only throw perfect games the rest of the season.

However, if Houston is willing to give up Whitley and another pitcher for a rental, I can't really blame BVW.

But MLB arms have often struggled as starters for NYY. It predates Rothschild, though he doesn't seem to be helping. It's weird, IDK if it's park or pressure but the list of failed SP acquisitions is remarkably long.

Houston's pitching coach, and, I don't know which, but definitely some other team's training staff.

in a deal with the Yanks for a SP.

In comment 14512380 nygmen84 said:

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At some point Houston is going to fail at turning chicken shit into chicken salad. Might as well be with Wheeler.

about German telling the coaches he doesn't want to feature his slider as much, and would rather throw his curve and change-up. Sonny Gray made similar comments about being forced to throw certain pitches he didn't want to throw. I think it's reasonable to think pitchers aren't fully buying into what Rothschild - and more importantly, the analytics guys above him - are commanding them to do on the mound. David Cone is a proponent of analytics but emphasizes that players needs to buy in. Just a theory.

Really, since the dynasty teams, there aren't many starting pitcher acquisition success stories. Javier Vazquez, Jeff Weaver, Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Randy Johnson, AJ Burnett, Nathan Eovaldi, Michael Pineda, Sonny Gray....Paxton is just another in a long line.

The best MLB veteran stafter they've acquired since 2000, after Sabathia and Mussina, is Hiroki Kuroda, believe it or not.

are much better than the starting pitcher analytics. (I don't know if that's a thing.)

It might just be bad luck, but it does seem systemic now that Paxton is fucking up. Especially since Sonny fucking Gray looks like a stud again and we're left with a prospect who didn't make the top 30 as a result of that experiment.

In comment 14512401 Greg from LI said:

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Really, since the dynasty teams, there aren't many starting pitcher acquisition success stories. Javier Vazquez, Jeff Weaver, Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Randy Johnson, AJ Burnett, Nathan Eovaldi, Michael Pineda, Sonny Gray....Paxton is just another in a long line. The best MLB veteran stafter they've acquired since 2000, after Sabathia and Mussina, is Hiroki Kuroda, believe it or not.

And many of those guys went on to success elsewhere, suggesting it's not a matter of talent. Is the ball park really that big of difference maker? I don't think so.

And be impressed enough in one day to waive his no trade...

One can dream

In comment 14512407 adamg said:

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are much better than the starting pitcher analytics. (I don't know if that's a thing.) It might just be bad luck, but it does seem systemic now that Paxton is fucking up. Especially since Sonny fucking Gray looks like a stud again and we're left with a prospect who didn't make the top 30 as a result of that experiment.

It's quite the conundrum. Obviously, the pressure of NY is real, and something some guys aren't made for. The other is probably buying into the analytics and Rothschild, this might be more of the issue

“I've heard some executives question whether the Mets will actually move Syndergaard by Wednesday, and the same for the Indians and Bauer. One GM I spoke with expects both to be traded and -- here's the fun part -- he tabs the Yankees and Astros as frontrunners to land Bauer.”

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In comment 14512383 Dunedin81 said:

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But MLB arms have often struggled as starters for NYY. It predates Rothschild, though he doesn't seem to be helping. It's weird, IDK if it's park or pressure but the list of failed SP acquisitions is remarkably long.

Really ? The Yankees are among the worst teams in baseball at developing starting pitching. Since the ascension of George Steinbrenner , the Yankees have developed a total of seven good or great starting pitchers that pitched primarily for the Yankees. Seven pitchers in over four decades. Those pitchers are: Ron Guidry, Scott Kamienieki, Andy Pettite, Chien Ming Wang, Phil Hughs , Ivan Nova and Luis Severino. The jury is still out on Domingo German and Jordan Montgomery.

In comment 14512425 Strahan91 said:

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“I've heard some executives question whether the Mets will actually move Syndergaard by Wednesday, and the same for the Indians and Bauer. One GM I spoke with expects both to be traded and -- here's the fun part -- he tabs the Yankees and Astros as frontrunners to land Bauer.”

Remember when Bauer accused the stros of cheating and got into it with Mccullers about pine tar. Then the next start it showed mccullers with pine tar on his cleats.

In comment 14512428 Ron from Ninerland said:

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In comment 14512383 Dunedin81 said: Quote: But MLB arms have often struggled as starters for NYY. It predates Rothschild, though he doesn't seem to be helping. It's weird, IDK if it's park or pressure but the list of failed SP acquisitions is remarkably long. Really ? The Yankees are among the worst teams in baseball at developing starting pitching. Since the ascension of George Steinbrenner , the Yankees have developed a total of seven good or great starting pitchers that pitched primarily for the Yankees. Seven pitchers in over four decades. Those pitchers are: Ron Guidry, Scott Kamienieki, Andy Pettite, Chien Ming Wang, Phil Hughs , Ivan Nova and Luis Severino. The jury is still out on Domingo German and Jordan Montgomery.

How about the pitchers they traded and did well for their next team?

an interesting article that had an interesting trade.

Sending Hicks plus to the Mets for Syndergaard...Mets need a legit CF. I suspect it would cost Garcia and maybe another SP prospect or IF prospect.

I would do that. Yanks have enough firepower to live without Hicks. Gardy, Tauchman or Maybin can cover CF without too big a defensive drop. They would lose Hicks pop.

Going back 3-4 years. That's industry opinion. For fixing or improving big leaguers, Houston and Pittsburgh before that. For developing pitching, TB and NYY.

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Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14512490 section125 said:

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an interesting article that had an interesting trade. Sending Hicks plus to the Mets for Syndergaard...Mets need a legit CF. I suspect it would cost Garcia and maybe another SP prospect or IF prospect. I would do that. Yanks have enough firepower to live without Hicks. Gardy, Tauchman or Maybin can cover CF without too big a defensive drop. They would lose Hicks pop.

That would be a great trade but don’t think it would ever happen. The Mets will not trade with the Yankees only hope I have of it happing tho is mike Francesa he said yesterday syndergard has no shot at becoming a yankee so anything mike says something like that the opposite happens so there is hope

In comment 14512324 arniefez said:

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So will the Yankees. I wouldn't. He's redundant. They would miss him as much as they Andujar and Stanton this year.

Please explain how they miss Andujar? Gio Urshela is doing fine and is a much better fielder in his sleep then Andujar.

try to quantify such things disagree with you:

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Really ? The Yankees are among the worst teams in baseball at developing starting pitching

The opposite is true recently. The Yankees are among the best at developing starting pitching. Some of those guys have been moved to get other players, but in terms of making pitchers better and getting the most out of the expectations of prospects, the Yankees are among the best.

Peter Gammons
@pgammo
Keep hearing Clint Frazier to Arizona for Ray or Bradley, or multi players_not Garcia-for both
8:36 AM · Jul 30, 2019

In comment 14512567 Ryan in Albany said:

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Peter Gammons @pgammo Keep hearing Clint Frazier to Arizona for Ray or Bradley, or multi players_not Garcia-for both 8:36 AM · Jul 30, 2019

If it's Ray for Frazier straight up, let me know if they need someone to drive Clint to the airport. I'll make time.

I've been saying Robbie Ray for a bit now...

Robbie is only good and he only has one more year of control. He hasn't pitched more than 170 innings in his career and he's at 126 right now. We need someone who offers more length or better quality.

If we we're going to include Frazier for 1.5 years of a pitcher, I would've liked to go after Stroman. I don't hate Ray, but I think it's a hefty price to pay for him.

they clearly think Ray is better than Stroman. I have no idea to be honest, don't know enough and haven't watch enough on either player.

I'm guessing they like Ray's size and being a lefty over the smaller framed righty in Stroman. NL to AL scares me, probably the biggest factor.

I don't necessarily think it means they think Ray > Stroman - I think they preferred not to trade Frazier within the division.

In comment 14512579 UConn4523 said:

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they clearly think Ray is better than Stroman. I have no idea to be honest, don't know enough and haven't watch enough on either player. I'm guessing they like Ray's size and being a lefty over the smaller framed righty in Stroman. NL to AL scares me, probably the biggest factor.

They could've also overplayed their hand and underestimated the cost to get a pitcher this year.

Ray has more red flags imo. Velocity has dipped by 2.4 mph since 2016, hasn't pitched more than 176 innings, and coming from a different league/into the AL.

I hope it works out and obviously the Yankees know more than I do, but as a fan I wouldn't be for a Frazier for Ray swap.

In comment 14512582 arcarsenal said:

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I don't necessarily think it means they think Ray > Stroman - I think they preferred not to trade Frazier within the division.

I don't think that should be a focus to a team with championship aspirations the next two years. Get the best players we can and try and compete.

In comment 14512579 UConn4523 said:

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they clearly think Ray is better than Stroman. I have no idea to be honest, don't know enough and haven't watch enough on either player. I'm guessing they like Ray's size and being a lefty over the smaller framed righty in Stroman. NL to AL scares me, probably the biggest factor.

I don't know enough about Ray either. RAB twitter guy doesn't seem to approve though...

We Like Clint Frazier
@RiverAveBlues
·
12m
Ray has a bottom five walk rate and a bottom five home run rate which is, uh, a bad combination.
Quote Tweet

Peter Gammons
@pgammo
· 46m
Keep hearing Clint Frazier to Arizona for Ray or Bradley, or multi players_not Garcia-for both

In comment 14512582 arcarsenal said:

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I don't necessarily think it means they think Ray > Stroman - I think they preferred not to trade Frazier within the division.

Certainly possible, but i'm not sure that would be the #1 reason. They've made it a point to get bigger pitchers in here, hard throwers, and guys who force ground balls. They must see something with Ray's game (if they are indeed interested) that they think they can exploit.

Looking briefly at stats Storman's k% is below the league average and Ray's is way above the league average. Sounds like they like his slider/sinker potential.

we are talking about a 2/3 starter. Just thinking of reasons why they might think they can tweak his game and make him more effective.

but I think there are a lot of posters on this board who value Frazier significantly higher than non-NYY fans and baseball people do.

Just the impression that I get. Which is not to say that the opinions are invalid.

really wants to offload Frazier before having to put him fulltime or close to fulltime in the field next year. His statements about Frazier being a focal point for the OF next year, IMO, is him talking up the asset he's most comfortable trading.

The 2020 OF will be Judge/Stanton/Hicks and then Tauchman (he won't have options so he will be here), and I can see them resigning Maybin whom apparently the clubhouse is infatuated with.

They don't need Frazier and certainly don't need the bad fielding.