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Michael Thomas (Giants) Tweet yesterday- labor problems

Matt in SGS : 8/7/2019 12:27 pm
The Giants Michael Thomas is one of the leading voices for the NFLPA (he's currently one of their VPs). He sent this tweet out yesterday, which was clearly meant for the players (though, would be great advice for anyone to follow, but I don't think we make the salaries of professional athletes).

Quote:

Michael Thomas
@Michael31Thomas
Men, save your money!!! Put 50% of every check into savings and don’t touch it. On me!!! & #9994;& #127999;
6:49 PM · Aug 6, 2019·Twitter for iPhone


There has been an outreach to the players on the ways for them to save money/budget and it's clear the union is prepping for a strike or lockout. The current CBA finishes up after 2020, so this is all ahead of 2021. The NFLPA is getting a jumpstart for players to set up their savings so they can dig in vs. the owners.

I know the NFL hasn't had a work stoppage since 1987 and the awful replacement games, but it feels like this is coming in 2021..right around the time the Giants might well be contenders (of course).
This is kind of funny  
ZogZerg : 8/7/2019 12:32 pm : link
Heard this morning that Adrian Peterson is BROKE and is playing this year to try and earn another contract.

The thing is, a large % of the NFL isn't making "huge" money. These are the guys that are going to be hurt by the labor stoppage. And, these are most likely the guys that aren't going to benefit from most of the issues that will lead to the stoppage.
I'm with the players on this...  
bw in dc : 8/7/2019 12:36 pm : link
The economics of the NFL are too one sided with too much leverage and powers for the owners. The need to pull the pin on the grenade and blow the system up.

For starters - kill the hard cap, make teams spend a minimum (instead of a maximum), expand the rosters to 60-65, allow guaranteed contracts up to 3 years, remove the franchise tag, and stick with 16 games.
RE: This is kind of funny  
giants#1 : 8/7/2019 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14521325 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Heard this morning that Adrian Peterson is BROKE and is playing this year to try and earn another contract.

The thing is, a large % of the NFL isn't making "huge" money. These are the guys that are going to be hurt by the labor stoppage. And, these are most likely the guys that aren't going to benefit from most of the issues that will lead to the stoppage.


I actually disagree. The biggest sticking point is likely the revenue split and/or which revenue streams count towards the overall pie. The mediocre vets are also helped by the rookie caps and earning higher minimum salaries with a portion of their salary not affecting the cap to make them more competitive with UDFAs and younger vets (salary wise).

Also contrary to what you wrote, to an extent, is the fact that the franchise tags have persisted to this point. The elite players hate them, but they apply to such a small minority of players that it never becomes a significant issue in the bargaining. If anything it also keeps the salaries of the elite players down a bit, which means more money for the 2nd/3rd tier players.

As for the tweet itself, I wouldn't read too much into it at this point. We're 2 years from the CBA expiration (though I think 2020 would be uncapped?) so it's at least partly just public posturing to up the pressure and try and increase their leverage.
RE: I'm with the players on this...  
RobCarpenter : 8/7/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14521329 bw in dc said:
Quote:
The economics of the NFL are too one sided with too much leverage and powers for the owners. The need to pull the pin on the grenade and blow the system up.

For starters - kill the hard cap, make teams spend a minimum (instead of a maximum), expand the rosters to 60-65, allow guaranteed contracts up to 3 years, remove the franchise tag, and stick with 16 games.


They need to improve retirement benefits too.

In any event, I'm not expecting NFL players to be playing football in 2021.
The only significant changes I'd like to see are in player healthcare  
Torrag : 8/7/2019 1:08 pm : link
Significantly improved long term healthcare for the players is a must. If you play in the NFL you should get 100% free healthcare coverage for the rest of your life. The long term effects on your body are atrocious.

The rest of the system works just fine. The last thing I want to see is players dictating terms to teams about who plays where and for who. The NBA is a disaster for 90% of their fanbases. The competitve balance in the NFL is the best system in all of professional sports. I'm against anything that could threaten that dynamic.
The product is suffering...  
Racer : 8/7/2019 1:09 pm : link
...due to make-goods and concessions on both sides as the collective bargaining process has played out.

The players definitely deserve a larger slice of the pie and better long-term financial and healthcare support. The barriers to young player development and the entire franchise tag system are two examples of things that are grossly inefficient and would never be put in place if we were starting things from scratch.

I'm not really hopeful regarding progress however, D. Smith is not a problem solver. He opened the year with a 'go to war' quote to support my pessimism.
As pro-player as I am  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/7/2019 1:15 pm : link
it's the players that dug themselves into that hole. Nothing will change in their favor until they're prepared and committed to not play and not get paid.
bw on the side of workers...  
Chris in Philly : 8/7/2019 1:20 pm : link
We're through the looking glass! :)
The XFL will be jumping for joy  
jvm52106 : 8/7/2019 1:23 pm : link
if they can get off the ground year 1 and see the NFL strike year 2. Borderline guys will jump to guaranteed money with the XFL if faced with a possible shutdown in near future...
They should forcefully take a percentage of the pay check  
BH28 : 8/7/2019 1:23 pm : link
and put it in an investment account for these players for their future. A lot of these guys don't have the knowledge to do this.

People in general don't have the willpower to take a percentage of their take home pay and invest it. But if it was automatically taken out of your paycheck, different story. I think that would go a long way to help these guys build wealth.
RE: They should forcefully take a percentage of the pay check  
bradshaw44 : 8/7/2019 1:30 pm : link
In comment 14521390 BH28 said:
Quote:
and put it in an investment account for these players for their future. A lot of these guys don't have the knowledge to do this.

People in general don't have the willpower to take a percentage of their take home pay and invest it. But if it was automatically taken out of your paycheck, different story. I think that would go a long way to help these guys build wealth.


I don't understand why budgeting isn't mandatory learning from elementary school through college. It would open a lot of peoples eyes.
I think Thomas gives bad advice  
Bill L : 8/7/2019 2:03 pm : link
Even with recent stock market volatility, there are any number of places to put their money rather than into a savings account.
RE: They should forcefully take a percentage of the pay check  
Bill L : 8/7/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14521390 BH28 said:
Quote:
and put it in an investment account for these players for their future. A lot of these guys don't have the knowledge to do this.

People in general don't have the willpower to take a percentage of their take home pay and invest it. But if it was automatically taken out of your paycheck, different story. I think that would go a long way to help these guys build wealth.


Don't all of these guys (most of these guys anyway) have managers/agents? Don't they have a responsibility to look after clients' finances?
RE: I'm with the players on this...  
Jay on the Island : 8/7/2019 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14521329 bw in dc said:
Quote:
The economics of the NFL are too one sided with too much leverage and powers for the owners. The need to pull the pin on the grenade and blow the system up.

For starters - kill the hard cap, make teams spend a minimum (instead of a maximum), expand the rosters to 60-65, allow guaranteed contracts up to 3 years, remove the franchise tag, and stick with 16 games.

Killing the hard cap would allow teams like Washington and Dallas to spend at will. They are currently in a tough spot with Prescott, Zeke, Cooper, Jaylon Smith, Byron Jones, La'El Collins, and Sean Lee needing new contracts. If there was no cap they could easily re-sign all of them.
I think the NFL has to revisit the length of practice time  
Rudy5757 : 8/7/2019 2:16 pm : link
I think training camps are too short. Im not saying 2 a days, but the rules regarding players being allowed in a facility are stupid. The product has suffered because of the lack of practice and instruction. Once a draftee is considered done with school they should be allowed to learn the system in a classroom environment and also get in the training program.

Rookies should be on 3 year guaranteed contracts based on where they were drafted and the next 2 years teams should have the right to match any offers from other teams or get compensation based on the contract. Rookies are a gamble for both sides.

Each contract should have a 50% guarantee. you sign a $100 mil contract you are automatically guaranteed $50 mil only if you make the team.

I like the cap, there are modifications that could be made but something needs to be in place to protect the competitive balance. You need a hard bottom cap and penalties for exceeding the top cap.

It's not the NFLs fault that many of the players are broke. Everyone has to learn how to manage their money. Give them classes and try to teach them but ultimately the players are responsible for their own actions.

RE: The only significant changes I'd like to see are in player healthcare  
bw in dc : 8/7/2019 2:16 pm : link
In comment 14521362 Torrag said:
Quote:


The rest of the system works just fine. The last thing I want to see is players dictating terms to teams about who plays where and for who. The NBA is a disaster for 90% of their fanbases. The competitve balance in the NFL is the best system in all of professional sports. I'm against anything that could threaten that dynamic.


How is the rest of the system fine when the owners have guaranteed money but the players - the actual product - don't?

Competitive balance? What does that mean? It's actually a league of attrition where health almost more than anything dictates the outcome. So if teams can't spend more money than the ridiculous cap, or can't have larger rosters because of some obtuse limitation on supply, how is their competitive balance when the balance of a season is so predicated on injuries?
One suggestion I like  
Jay on the Island : 8/7/2019 2:17 pm : link
Is altering the franchise tag. Instead of having a 1 year deal locked in the team would have a certain amount of time to extend the player. They could still sign a 1 year deal if they wish but if they do agree to an extension the cap number is half of what it would normally be. This would benefit both the player and team as they would be willing to roll the dice on an extension and offer more if the player's cap number was lower.
RE: RE: I'm with the players on this...  
FStubbs : 8/7/2019 2:31 pm : link
In comment 14521449 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14521329 bw in dc said:


Quote:


The economics of the NFL are too one sided with too much leverage and powers for the owners. The need to pull the pin on the grenade and blow the system up.

For starters - kill the hard cap, make teams spend a minimum (instead of a maximum), expand the rosters to 60-65, allow guaranteed contracts up to 3 years, remove the franchise tag, and stick with 16 games.


Killing the hard cap would allow teams like Washington and Dallas to spend at will. They are currently in a tough spot with Prescott, Zeke, Cooper, Jaylon Smith, Byron Jones, La'El Collins, and Sean Lee needing new contracts. If there was no cap they could easily re-sign all of them.


Yeah, you don't want a situation like MLB where you have 4-5 teams at the top and the rest of the teams are farm teams for those 4-5 teams.
the actual product - don't?  
Torrag : 8/7/2019 2:33 pm : link
Many players earn guaranteed money in the NFL. The facts are that in a league with 50+ player rosters and injuries the ideas of fully guaranteed contracts for everyone isn't financially feasible. It's a sports league for profit not a social justice experiment. 1+1 doesn't equal 3.

Do the players have avenues to negotiate and earn increased revenue in the next CBA? Yes. Should such changes fundamentally alter the current economic model of the league? No way.

It's the most successful sports league in the world because both sides make money AND if a team is well run and intelligently utilizes the roster building tools available to them they can bolster the fortunes of their franchise and contend for championships.
MLB actually has a lot of parity...  
Dunedin81 : 8/7/2019 2:42 pm : link
Over the last 20 years, only four teams have won multiple WS, the Sox and Giants each with 3 and the Yankees and Cardinals each with 2. Football has seen a single team win 6 SBs and lose 3 more. In fact, since the dawn of the Patriots' dynasty they've been in half the Super Bowls played.
RE: I think Thomas gives bad advice  
EricJ : 8/7/2019 2:42 pm : link
In comment 14521437 Bill L said:
Quote:
Even with recent stock market volatility, there are any number of places to put their money rather than into a savings account.


So now Thomas should be offering investment advice? Really?

By the way, his comment was made public not to REALLY tell the players to save their money. It was a signal to the owners that they are prepared to sit out and fight.
I am actually NOT with the players here...  
EricJ : 8/7/2019 2:47 pm : link
There absolutely SHOULD be an imbalance of how the revenue is split. The owners bought their franchises. They took all of the investment risk here.

If you own a restaurant and have an amazing chef, you may pay him more than the other chefs in the area but he is NOT going to get anywhere near the profits that you are earning as the entrepreneur.

Now, I am also for the idea of extending healthcare for veterans who played at least X number of years and for players who played only a short time but had a career ending injury (in that case, only medical issues related to their injuries would be covered).

These players went to college and all received a degree. If they are done playing in four years, then time to get busy on your field of study. You are already years ahead of your fellow graduates from a financial standpoint.

The players have an option NOT to play. They are all smiles on draft day but then complain years later about making more money than 99% of the population.
The players are not the product...  
Brown_Hornet : 8/7/2019 3:05 pm : link
...they are the salesmen.

The game is the product.

RE: the actual product - don't?  
bw in dc : 8/7/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14521488 Torrag said:
Quote:
Many players earn guaranteed money in the NFL. The facts are that in a league with 50+ player rosters and injuries the ideas of fully guaranteed contracts for everyone isn't financially feasible. It's a sports league for profit not a social justice experiment. 1+1 doesn't equal 3.

Do the players have avenues to negotiate and earn increased revenue in the next CBA? Yes. Should such changes fundamentally alter the current economic model of the league? No way.

It's the most successful sports league in the world because both sides make money AND if a team is well run and intelligently utilizes the roster building tools available to them they can bolster the fortunes of their franchise and contend for championships.


The NFL is absolutely successful for the owners. It's turned into a great investment. For players? Let's check.

The NBA's average salary per player is $7.7M, nearly every contract is guaranteed.

The MLB average salary is $4.5M, nearly every contract guaranteed.

The NHL is $2.8M, nearly every contract guaranteed.

The NFL? $2.9M...with very few exceptions guaranteed beyond the signing bonus.

So have an interesting definition of "many". Do many corners have fully guaranteed money? Do many safeties? Do many DTs? Do many Gs? Do many Cs? Do many fullbacks? Many kickers?

Who do you think have more guaranteed contracts? Coaches or players, btw?

And why exactly would it be bad for teams to spend more for players - isn't that a good thing? - if they want to?

But NFL rosters are double hockey and baseball...  
Dunedin81 : 8/7/2019 3:14 pm : link
and more than 4X basketball.
RE: The players are not the product...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/7/2019 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14521519 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...they are the salesmen.

The game is the product.


The game is not the product.

The game played at the highest level is the product. Nobody wants to see an NFL game played by guys off the street. We had replacement referees one preseason and the world had a meltdown.
RE: But NFL rosters are double hockey and baseball...  
bw in dc : 8/7/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14521525 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
and more than 4X basketball.


I get it, but the larger point is guaranteed money. And if the league is so healthy or thriving, then the players need more of the play. Thus, why I also listed the Avg $ per player.
RE: The players are not the product...  
bw in dc : 8/7/2019 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14521519 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...they are the salesmen.

The game is the product.


Really? Would you rather watch an NFL game or a Canadian game? And why?
RE: I am actually NOT with the players here...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/7/2019 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14521498 EricJ said:
Quote:


The players have an option NOT to play. They are all smiles on draft day but then complain years later about making more money than 99% of the population.


Why would you compare like that?

When you are talking money in your job, you compare against people in your field, not "99% of the population". Minimum wage workers in NYC working a deep fryer make a lot more money than people in some corner of the world too. That doesnt make the comparison logical. "Be happy you're making more money that people who have nothing to do with your line of work" is not what you would accept from your employer.
RE: RE: The players are not the product...  
Matt in SGS : 8/7/2019 3:30 pm : link
In comment 14521531 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14521519 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...they are the salesmen.

The game is the product.




The game is not the product.

The game played at the highest level is the product. Nobody wants to see an NFL game played by guys off the street. We had replacement referees one preseason and the world had a meltdown.


For those of us old enough to remember 1987, we saw what happened when they brought in the replacement players. The football was XFL level atrocious and the Giants managed to field the worst of all the replacement teams (and killed any chance of a repeat).
RE: RE: But NFL rosters are double hockey and baseball...  
Dunedin81 : 8/7/2019 3:33 pm : link
In comment 14521536 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14521525 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


and more than 4X basketball.



I get it, but the larger point is guaranteed money. And if the league is so healthy or thriving, then the players need more of the play. Thus, why I also listed the Avg $ per player.


But that's not the point. Players as a whole can make more of the revenue in salary but because there are so many more of them they're going to make less on a per-player basis. I don't have an issue with guaranteed contracts, but you need to have some provision for non-performing or injured players not to blow up a team's cap (buy-outs or something of the sort). I would also note that the NFL's cap has more than doubled in the last 16 years. Only the NBA compares to that level of growth.
RE: RE: the actual product - don't?  
giants#1 : 8/7/2019 3:39 pm : link
In comment 14521521 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14521488 Torrag said:


Quote:


Many players earn guaranteed money in the NFL. The facts are that in a league with 50+ player rosters and injuries the ideas of fully guaranteed contracts for everyone isn't financially feasible. It's a sports league for profit not a social justice experiment. 1+1 doesn't equal 3.

Do the players have avenues to negotiate and earn increased revenue in the next CBA? Yes. Should such changes fundamentally alter the current economic model of the league? No way.

It's the most successful sports league in the world because both sides make money AND if a team is well run and intelligently utilizes the roster building tools available to them they can bolster the fortunes of their franchise and contend for championships.



The NFL is absolutely successful for the owners. It's turned into a great investment. For players? Let's check.

The NBA's average salary per player is $7.7M, nearly every contract is guaranteed.

The MLB average salary is $4.5M, nearly every contract guaranteed.

The NHL is $2.8M, nearly every contract guaranteed.

The NFL? $2.9M...with very few exceptions guaranteed beyond the signing bonus.

So have an interesting definition of "many". Do many corners have fully guaranteed money? Do many safeties? Do many DTs? Do many Gs? Do many Cs? Do many fullbacks? Many kickers?

Who do you think have more guaranteed contracts? Coaches or players, btw?

And why exactly would it be bad for teams to spend more for players - isn't that a good thing? - if they want to?


And the NFL plays far fewer games than any other sport:

The NBA's average salary per player is $94k/game

The MLB average salary is $28k/game

The NHL is $34k/game

The NFL? $181k/game
RE: RE: RE: I'm with the players on this...  
santacruzom : 8/7/2019 3:43 pm : link
In comment 14521485 FStubbs said:
Quote:

Killing the hard cap would allow teams like Washington and Dallas to spend at will. They are currently in a tough spot with Prescott, Zeke, Cooper, Jaylon Smith, Byron Jones, La'El Collins, and Sean Lee needing new contracts. If there was no cap they could easily re-sign all of them.


With only one exception that I know of off the top of my head, every player on that list but one was drafted by the Cowboys. Assuming the Cowboys want to keep them and the player wants to continue to play for them while earning a competitive salary to do so, why should the cap be an obstacle to either of those wishes?
RE: RE: RE: I'm with the players on this...  
santacruzom : 8/7/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14521485 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 14521449 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 14521329 bw in dc said:




Killing the hard cap would allow teams like Washington and Dallas to spend at will. They are currently in a tough spot with Prescott, Zeke, Cooper, Jaylon Smith, Byron Jones, La'El Collins, and Sean Lee needing new contracts. If there was no cap they could easily re-sign all of them.



Yeah, you don't want a situation like MLB where you have 4-5 teams at the top and the rest of the teams are farm teams for those 4-5 teams.


But in this scenario, the Cowboys losing any of those players to another team strictly because of the cap would result in them being the farm team for whoever else acquires the player.
Note to all players ...  
Spider56 : 8/7/2019 3:46 pm : link
You too can be replaced ... “ yes, even you Dorn “.
With an average career length of 3-4 years, the players have little leverage.
As it should be ...
Stop making comparisons to scab players...  
EricJ : 8/7/2019 3:53 pm : link
like we saw in the late 80's. Most of the current group of players would continue to play because most of them do not have alternatives to pay them what they can make in the NFL today.

The idea that the game quality will decline is ridiculous. It already has declined due to past negotiations which limit the amount of practices, and the types of practices that you can have. Most of you did not even notice the decline in quality because it happened over time. If you speak with professionals in the industry they will tell you the same thing. You have no time to practice and prepare for the regular season anymore.

Next, the idea that most of the starting players would leave and a whole new crop of people would then step up is also just ridiculous. The current group of players are not leaving.
On the Bright Side,  
OntheRoad : 8/7/2019 3:55 pm : link
it will get players used to saving half their paycheck. Or if a strike does not happen or is short, they'll have a windfall.
RE: RE: RE: But NFL rosters are double hockey and baseball...  
bw in dc : 8/7/2019 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14521542 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:

But that's not the point. Players as a whole can make more of the revenue in salary but because there are so many more of them they're going to make less on a per-player basis. I don't have an issue with guaranteed contracts, but you need to have some provision for non-performing or injured players not to blow up a team's cap (buy-outs or something of the sort). I would also note that the NFL's cap has more than doubled in the last 16 years. Only the NBA compares to that level of growth.


If you keep some kind of cap model, then, yes, there should be way to account for injuries/suspensions/non-performers/etc that can be carved out of the cap.

But as I stated, I think the cap should be based on a minimum threshold. And if a team wants to blow through that to invest more in player comp, then God bless them, and good for the players.

Then there is the issue of average playing career. Average NFL career is basically 3.3 years. The NBA is a full year and half more; and the MLB and NHL are over two years more. That to me makes it more imperative for the NFLPA to get more guaranteed money, and more opportunities to get more money (without a cap).
RE: Stop making comparisons to scab players...  
RobCarpenter : 8/7/2019 3:57 pm : link
In comment 14521577 EricJ said:
Quote:
like we saw in the late 80's. Most of the current group of players would continue to play because most of them do not have alternatives to pay them what they can make in the NFL today.

The idea that the game quality will decline is ridiculous. It already has declined due to past negotiations which limit the amount of practices, and the types of practices that you can have. Most of you did not even notice the decline in quality because it happened over time. If you speak with professionals in the industry they will tell you the same thing. You have no time to practice and prepare for the regular season anymore.

Next, the idea that most of the starting players would leave and a whole new crop of people would then step up is also just ridiculous. The current group of players are not leaving.


You could have made the same argument in 1987 about why they wouldn't strike. And they did just that.

And the quality of the play would absolutely decline from having players that aren't NFL starters.
RE: Note to all players ...  
bw in dc : 8/7/2019 4:02 pm : link
In comment 14521565 Spider56 said:
Quote:
You too can be replaced ... “ yes, even you Dorn “.
With an average career length of 3-4 years, the players have little leverage.
As it should be ...


I really don't get this anti-player sentiment. Short careers, punishing sport, post-playing health complications, etc.

Do really root for the owners to make more money? Do wear a Giants shirt with Mara or Tisch on the back of it?
RE: As pro-player as I am  
Reale01 : 8/7/2019 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14521373 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
it's the players that dug themselves into that hole. Nothing will change in their favor until they're prepared and committed to not play and not get paid.


Is that the first time you ever put "I am" and "pro-player" in the same sentence? ;-)
BW ...  
Spider56 : 8/7/2019 4:08 pm : link
I’ve been pro mgmt in all sports since Curt Flood ruined baseball in the 60s.
And yes ... I’d wear a Mara shirt before I bought an overpriced jersey ... Players no longer have any loyalty to fans or their teams, so I have zero loyalty to them. They’re all overpaid and spoiled.
I want to see the players taken care of...  
Dunedin81 : 8/7/2019 4:11 pm : link
but a prolonged work stoppage could devastate the sport. A lot of indications that between political nonsense, changes to game play necessitated by injuries, continued dominance of a single team, and just saturation pro football is peaking or potentially has already peaked in popularity. Hopefully they can find some middle ground.
RE: RE: The players are not the product...  
Brown_Hornet : 8/7/2019 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14521537 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14521519 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...they are the salesmen.

The game is the product.




Really? Would you rather watch an NFL game or a Canadian game? And why?

No, The NFL has, by far, the best salesmen.

The game is the product.

High School is great, but the NFL is better.

The players are employees. They're the best at selling this great game.
RE: RE: The players are not the product...  
Brown_Hornet : 8/7/2019 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14521531 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14521519 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...they are the salesmen.

The game is the product.




The game is not the product.

The game played at the highest level is the product. Nobody wants to see an NFL game played by guys off the street. We had replacement referees one preseason and the world had a meltdown.
Yep, the NFL has the best employees.

The game is still the product.
RE: I am actually NOT with the players here...  
KeoweeFan : 8/7/2019 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14521498 EricJ said:
Quote:
There absolutely SHOULD be an imbalance of how the revenue is split. The owners bought their franchises. They took all of the investment risk here.

If you own a restaurant and have an amazing chef, you may pay him more than the other chefs in the area but he is NOT going to get anywhere near the profits that you are earning as the entrepreneur.



Now, I am also for the idea of extending healthcare for veterans who played at least X number of years and for players who played only a short time but had a career ending injury (in that case, only medical issues related to their injuries would be covered).

These players went to college and all received a degree. If they are done playing in four years, then time to get busy on your field of study. You are already years ahead of your fellow graduates from a financial standpoint.

The players have an option NOT to play. They are all smiles on draft day but then complain years later about making more money than 99% of the population.


Eric, I'm with you. (I'm an old fart and my comment will demonstrate that.)
If I recall, in the decade of 1960 - 1970 the average player's salary was well under $50K (Google says $23-25K), 4 or 5 times the wage of an average working American. (In another sport, Yankee stars had to have a winter job to survive year 'round.)
Today the average player's salary is 50 times that of an average fan. This trend is not sustainable; eventually the entire system will implode.

In the real world your salary is not direct function of the profits of the corporation. (A "bonus" is reasonable, as long as it can fluctuate both up and down.)
Benefits of course are an obvious subject of union negotiation.
RE: RE: They should forcefully take a percentage of the pay check  
Diver_Down : 8/7/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14521439 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14521390 BH28 said:


Quote:


and put it in an investment account for these players for their future. A lot of these guys don't have the knowledge to do this.

People in general don't have the willpower to take a percentage of their take home pay and invest it. But if it was automatically taken out of your paycheck, different story. I think that would go a long way to help these guys build wealth.



Don't all of these guys (most of these guys anyway) have managers/agents? Don't they have a responsibility to look after clients' finances?


The assumption that the managers/agents are competent is a fallacy.

A quick story that I might have told in the past. LT had the misfortune of running out of heating oil. His account was serviced with regular deliveries on credit. My grandmother was in charge of Accounts Receivable. She put a stop to all scheduled deliveries until the outstanding balance was paid in full. She recounts the story stating that LT was insisting that oil be delivered and a service technician come to relight his oil burner. She refused until paid in full. As she recounts the story, she never knew who LT was. She thought he was a basketball player. LT's manager eventually took care of the account and oil was delivered.
RE: RE: They should forcefully take a percentage of the pay check  
LauderdaleMatty : 8/7/2019 11:37 pm : link
In comment 14521402 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 14521390 BH28 said:


Quote:


and put it in an investment account for these players for their future. A lot of these guys don't have the knowledge to do this.

People in general don't have the willpower to take a percentage of their take home pay and invest it. But if it was automatically taken out of your paycheck, different story. I think that would go a long way to help these guys build wealth.



I don't understand why budgeting isn't mandatory learning from elementary school through college. It would open a lot of peoples eyes.



This. But also credit is way too easy for people to get. U can get in a hole
ASAP. And for most players a career is less than a few years. And everyone should be taught money management.
RE: RE: the actual product - don't?  
Mike in Boston : 8/8/2019 6:23 am : link
In comment 14521521 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14521488 Torrag said:


Quote:


Many players earn guaranteed money in the NFL. The facts are that in a league with 50+ player rosters and injuries the ideas of fully guaranteed contracts for everyone isn't financially feasible. It's a sports league for profit not a social justice experiment. 1+1 doesn't equal 3.

Do the players have avenues to negotiate and earn increased revenue in the next CBA? Yes. Should such changes fundamentally alter the current economic model of the league? No way.

It's the most successful sports league in the world because both sides make money AND if a team is well run and intelligently utilizes the roster building tools available to them they can bolster the fortunes of their franchise and contend for championships.



The NFL is absolutely successful for the owners. It's turned into a great investment. For players? Let's check.

The NBA's average salary per player is $7.7M, nearly every contract is guaranteed.

The MLB average salary is $4.5M, nearly every contract guaranteed.

The NHL is $2.8M, nearly every contract guaranteed.

The NFL? $2.9M...with very few exceptions guaranteed beyond the signing bonus.

So have an interesting definition of "many". Do many corners have fully guaranteed money? Do many safeties? Do many DTs? Do many Gs? Do many Cs? Do many fullbacks? Many kickers?

Who do you think have more guaranteed contracts? Coaches or players, btw?

And why exactly would it be bad for teams to spend more for players - isn't that a good thing? - if they want to?


Raising the minimum teams must spend would put more money in players' pockets. Guaranteeing contracts probably doesn't--it'll just makes the numbers more honest, and probably reduce signing bonuses and increase base pay.
Also this notion that owners are taking this great financial risk...  
Dunedin81 : 8/8/2019 8:26 am : link
is severely dated. Thanks in large part to anti-trust exemptions and subsidies, pro sports may be the safest large-scale investment available right now. Revenue streams are substantial and outside of maybe hockey capital appreciation has been marked in the major sports.
I keep thinking this thread  
ron mexico : 8/8/2019 8:47 am : link
is about one of the players whose wife gave birth recently

...  
christian : 8/8/2019 10:41 am : link
The owners can't hide behind the virtues of free market and and business norms with the enormous exemptions and public subsidies afforded to them.

I'm as pro-business as it gets, but just remember money not given to the players isn't invested in the business, it's going into the owners' pockets.
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