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Point of Emphasis - Holding

FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 8:28 am
I was watching several games last night and it popped out that the refs were indeed calling OL holds with frequency. I think we had 5 called against us, including one on the opening drive.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is to watch more subjectivity brought into play. We are going to micro-analyze every key pass incompletion to see if there was contact and we are going to see borderline blocks get flagged as holds, but what bothers me most about the subjectivity is bias.

Not outright favortism, but the underlying reputational bias. The Giants are perceived to have a poor OL - so they will get flagged. The Cards are perceived to have a poor OL - they were getting flagged. The Skins were getting flagged. The Dolphins were getting flagged.

What I fear will happen is good, borderline blocks will reverse critical plays while teams like the Cowboys or Rams will get away with them.

There's already a razor-thin margin for error among the vast majority of teams, but I think the league has set themselves up to have a bigger shitshow than the NO game last year. You'll see games impacted weekly on the holding calls and reviewing PI. I guarantee it.
Fats  
Jints in Carolina : 8/9/2019 8:32 am : link
I don't know about you, but except for the Giants I find myself drifting away from the NFL product and heading towards college football.
They  
mdthedream : 8/9/2019 8:32 am : link
flag more during the preseason.I do not like the new pass interference rule where you can replay if it was a penalty. They will be trowing deep late and than challenging the call.
Jints...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 8:36 am : link
I think because of fantasy football I'm still watching as much of the pro game as ever. The difference is, if the Giants aren't on, I'm watching the Red Zone channel and I find afterwards, it was like a barrage of ADD!

I really enjoyed the college football season last year. Syracuse played well and I got to see one of the best games of the year in person when they played clemson, and I saw several Clemson games and finally realized what the college atmosphere is like. Between the Clemson games and going to VaTech the previous season - it blows what I grew up with in NY for college games away.

still don't think I'll be a die-hard - and it looks like I know jackshit about what I'm watching because I really was very lukewarm on Jones.
I agree FMiC  
Burtman : 8/9/2019 8:40 am : link
Quote:
I can't tell you how frustrating it is to watch more subjectivity brought into play. We are going to micro-analyze every key pass incompletion to see if there was contact and we are going to see borderline blocks get flagged as holds, but what bothers me most about the subjectivity is bias.


We've got to rely on refs who couldn't even see that it was a pass and not a fumble. I'm not filled with confidence in those bozo refs.
Calling it right now...  
Britt in VA : 8/9/2019 8:41 am : link
Weíre going to lose a game due to this at some point this season.
you were lukewarm on Jones' performance last night?  
Jints in Carolina : 8/9/2019 8:41 am : link
Wow LOL
What bothered..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 8:42 am : link
me on that Tanney "fumble" is that they basically said they would let replay sort it out, even though it was obvious in real-time that it was a forward pass.
RE: you were lukewarm on Jones' performance last night?  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 8:42 am : link
In comment 14524077 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
Wow LOL


No. I was lukewarm on him pre-draft. I saw him play live twice last year and thought he looked terrible. Against Clemson and Wake.
RE: RE: you were lukewarm on Jones' performance last night?  
Jints in Carolina : 8/9/2019 8:45 am : link
In comment 14524081 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14524077 Jints in Carolina said:


Quote:


Wow LOL



No. I was lukewarm on him pre-draft. I saw him play live twice last year and thought he looked terrible. Against Clemson and Wake.


ah ok...yeah i was not the happiest camper when we took him 6th.
Yeah that Tanney  
RollBlue : 8/9/2019 8:48 am : link
"fumble" call was brutal, and from an experienced Ref. I watching a few other games, I noticed some new guys as head refs, which I found encouraging. My opinion is that people develop bias, and some of these refs have been around forever. I hope we see a large turnover in the next few years, get some fresh blood in there.
I was not too..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 8:50 am : link
happy to see that Walt Anderson was reffing the HoF game. I was hoping he'd have retired!
Not a big fan of being able to challenge PI  
Stu11 : 8/9/2019 8:56 am : link
as Banks said to expect DB's to not lay a glove on WR's is unrealistic.
RE: I was not too..  
Mike in NY : 8/9/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14524094 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
happy to see that Walt Anderson was reffing the HoF game. I was hoping he'd have retired!


Walt Coleman did retire though so thatís a positive! I think Anderson will be in the next batch of retirees with Tony Corrente and Jerome Boger. All of them are in their early to mid 60ís I believe. I donít think the NFL wants 4 new white hats in one year so probably asked someone like Walt Anderson to stay on so they can evaluate a few possible replacements this preseason.
Stu..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 9:00 am : link
I think the bigger issue is how the league reacts or overreacts.

I think they need to do something to address blatantly missed calls that can impact a game, like what we saw with NO, but putting a reactionary rule in that is going to create more problems isn't the way to go.
Mike..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 9:01 am : link
I always appreciate the reffing insight.
You are on top of it!
Fats, these are points of emphasis are often temporary  
Tony in Tampa : 8/9/2019 9:02 am : link
The NFL and the refs do this type of stuff every year. It is my understanding that the refs come into training camp and go over the new rules and on what they will be focusing. They call it tight for the first few weeks, there's an uproar by the players and media and then the refs back off-or players somewhat adapt.

Well known that by strict interpretation you can literally call a holding penalty on every play. That would slow the game down to a crawl and the league will not allow that.

This is just to cut down on the egregious sh!t.
Tony..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 9:05 am : link
while I agree - the holds being called last night weren't very egregious in any of the games I was watching.

Heck, on the play where Darnold found the wide open man for a 35 yard gain, the Jets tackle ripped a Giant to the ground.

What worries me is the bias. A couple of years ago, they had an emphasis on illegal contact. Then the regular season started and the Giants were still getting dinged. they finished the year with the 3rd most illegal contact penalties.
RE: Jints...  
barens : 8/9/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14524067 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I think because of fantasy football I'm still watching as much of the pro game as ever. The difference is, if the Giants aren't on, I'm watching the Red Zone channel and I find afterwards, it was like a barrage of ADD!

I really enjoyed the college football season last year. Syracuse played well and I got to see one of the best games of the year in person when they played clemson, and I saw several Clemson games and finally realized what the college atmosphere is like. Between the Clemson games and going to VaTech the previous season - it blows what I grew up with in NY for college games away.

still don't think I'll be a die-hard - and it looks like I know jackshit about what I'm watching because I really was very lukewarm on Jones.


+ 1 here. I think fantasy football is what's keeping the NFL so popular. If it weren't for that, I can't even imagine what the ratings would be like.



RE: Fats, these are points of emphasis are often temporary  
KeoweeFan : 8/9/2019 9:53 am : link
In comment 14524127 Tony in Tampa said:
Quote:
The NFL and the refs do this type of stuff every year. It is my understanding that the refs come into training camp and go over the new rules and on what they will be focusing. They call it tight for the first few weeks, there's an uproar by the players and media and then the refs back off-or players somewhat adapt.

Well known that by strict interpretation you can literally call a holding penalty on every play. That would slow the game down to a crawl and the league will not allow that.

This is just to cut down on the egregious sh!t.

The problem is not the call, but rather the challenge. (If it's not egregious, it may not be called on the field, but the challenge flags are now likely to be thrown on even "iffy" calls after meaningful plays (e.g. end of game).
The fan in the stadium and on TV will then see the play in slow motion from 5 different angles and then as Banks said you're sure to find an infraction on almost every play.
That will change the game (and DB's technique). Whether that is good or bad is another thread.
Sometimes, when changes are made, the refs are gung ho during  
Ira : 8/9/2019 10:15 am : link
pre-season, but settle down the regular season begins.
RE: Mike..  
Mike in NY : 8/9/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14524123 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I always appreciate the reffing insight.
You are on top of it!


footballzebras.com
FatMan in Charlotte  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2019 10:18 am : link
My biggest problem last night (and my entire family heard me repeatedly bitching about it) was that in a game that was already delayed 60 minutes, they were calling holding penalties on 3rd teamers in the 4th quarter. Give me a (blanking) break!!! So situational awareness.
Eric..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 10:23 am : link
and a couple of those holds didn't even look like penalties (for both teams)!
RE: Mike..  
Mike in NY : 8/9/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14524123 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I always appreciate the reffing insight.
You are on top of it!


Wikipedia also helps too. Jerome Boger was born in 1955 so that means he turns 64 this year. Walt Anderson was born in 1952 so he is ~67. Tony Corrente was born November 1951 so he turns 68 this season. All 3 are older than I thought. There is about 6 year gap agewise between Boger and probably the next oldest Referee who would likely be Bill Vinovich looking at them on TV. Both Craig Wrolstad and Carl Cheffers have been in the NFL almost 20 years, but both were young when initially hired. I remember reading an article about Wrolstad where it talked about him graduating High School around 1983 or 1984 if I remember correctly which puts his DOB around 1965 or 1966 so 10 years younger than Boger.
I like..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 10:26 am : link
footballzebras.com to see the ref assignments and their takes.
RE: Eric..  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14524310 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
and a couple of those holds didn't even look like penalties (for both teams)!


I know there was one where I was left scratching my head. Again, if it's borderine, why?
Fatman...this happens every year, point of emphasis, players get  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/9/2019 10:37 am : link
message and after a few weeks the flags go down. I'm assuming the holding has been getting out of control, sure seems like it.
RE: Stu..  
Stu11 : 8/9/2019 10:47 am : link
In comment 14524122 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I think the bigger issue is how the league reacts or overreacts.

I think they need to do something to address blatantly missed calls that can impact a game, like what we saw with NO, but putting a reactionary rule in that is going to create more problems isn't the way to go.

Agree 100%. This is a total overreaction to one stupid play that the city of NOLA can't get over. Now after your CB makes a solid play on 3rd down we don't only have to wait out a potential flag, but now a challenge.
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