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Clarification on Challenging PI

FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 8:49 am
Does anyone know if you can challenge PI both ways? Can a challenge flag be thrown to challenge if the receiver pushed off?

What about if PI is called and the defensive coach thinks there was no foul?

I'm really envisioning this rule being a disaster, but does anyone know the parameters on how it can be used?
So this isn't something...  
BillKo : 8/9/2019 8:51 am : link
..they are just testing in the preseason? This is going to be a rule for reg season?

I see it being a disaster too.........I would hope you'd be able to call it both ways, only makes sense.
It goes both ways for O and D.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2019 8:52 am : link
But you are fully aware that they rarely call OPI and it annoys me. So, I can see the same shit happening on instant replay.
I'm..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 8:54 am : link
pretty sure it is a permanent rule although I could be wrong.

I guess I even thought it was just an idea being floated. I'm not sure I completely realized it had gone into effect, then I saw what type of plays it can be used to challenge, and if I'm coaching, I'm putting strategy in to throw deep in a close game knowing I'm going to toss the laundry on any type of contact.
RE: It goes both ways for O and D.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 8:54 am : link
In comment 14524097 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But you are fully aware that they rarely call OPI and it annoys me. So, I can see the same shit happening on instant replay.


That's at least good to know - even though I agree that OPI will still rarely be called.

Do you know if a coach can challenge to negate a PI call?
Yes they can.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2019 8:55 am : link
But supposedly it will only be overturned if it is egregious.
That is supposed to go both ways on called and non-called plays.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2019 8:56 am : link
I am pretty sure they stress the word egregious to overturn any call.
Seems to me ..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 8:57 am : link
that armbars and grabbing will be considered egregious!!
It's in for 2019 regular season but it's not permanent  
shyster : 8/9/2019 8:57 am : link
yet.

Can be challenged from all perspectives, defense, offense, calls and non-calls.

Booth has sole review last two minutes of each half.

Challenges still have the same limit. Challenges seeking OPI to take TDs off the board will be the most critical, I think.
nfl.com - ( New Window )
Thanks..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 8:57 am : link
for clarifying.
RE: RE: It goes both ways for O and D.  
TrueBlue56 : 8/9/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14524104 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14524097 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


But you are fully aware that they rarely call OPI and it annoys me. So, I can see the same shit happening on instant replay.



That's at least good to know - even though I agree that OPI will still rarely be called.

Do you know if a coach can challenge to negate a PI call?


It is on a 1 year trial run. They will look at this at the end of the season and see if they need to make changes.

Yes, a coach can challenge that there wasn't pass interference if a flag was thrown.
RE: Yes they can.  
BillKo : 8/9/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14524107 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But supposedly it will only be overturned if it is egregious.


There is the problem. Egregious for you, might not be for me.

Ruling on PI is actually going to be harder than replays for things like fumbles/breaking the goal line/knee down because those are very distinct rules.

PI in itself is VERY subjective.
RE: Seems to me ..  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14524112 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that armbars and grabbing will be considered egregious!!


Well, we'll find out what their definition of egregious is. The problem is with all these different refs you may have differing opinions. Is it one ref per game that reviews it? I don't think it will be clear on an armbar unless it impedes the receiver going up to catch the ball or blatantly knocks him off his route but that is just how I feel.
RE: RE: Seems to me ..  
BillKo : 8/9/2019 9:02 am : link
In comment 14524121 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14524112 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


that armbars and grabbing will be considered egregious!!



Well, we'll find out what their definition of egregious is. The problem is with all these different refs you may have differing opinions. Is it one ref per game that reviews it? I don't think it will be clear on an armbar unless it impedes the receiver going up to catch the ball or blatantly knocks him off his route but that is just how I feel.


That it exactly! It's almost you'd want to have one guy ruling on all the games so at least there would be some consistency LOL...but even then......it's going to really be bad IMO.
RE: RE: Seems to me ..  
TrueBlue56 : 8/9/2019 9:07 am : link
In comment 14524121 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14524112 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


that armbars and grabbing will be considered egregious!!



Well, we'll find out what their definition of egregious is. The problem is with all these different refs you may have differing opinions. Is it one ref per game that reviews it? I don't think it will be clear on an armbar unless it impedes the receiver going up to catch the ball or blatantly knocks him off his route but that is just how I feel.


My understanding and I might be wrong, but doesn't all reviews go to New York and Al Riveron? If that is the case, then at least there should be some guideline they will use. It's better than 17 different referees with subjective views.
Many of these 'New Rules'  
mvftw : 8/9/2019 9:10 am : link
Are Tested in Pre-Season and Not Enforced in the Season...
I can't see..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 9:12 am : link
how you can avoid enforcing a challenge rule though.

It sort of will be an event everytime the challenge flag comes out.
Here, I found this.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2019 9:13 am : link

Link - ( New Window )
37%..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 9:15 am : link
overturn rate seems like it is high - not low.

Also very interesting to see Dallas and Philly have the highest rate of success.

Cool poster.
I love how they say ONLY a certain percentage of plays were challenged  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2019 9:19 am : link
No shit. There are only a select amount of plays that can be challenged. You have a total of 6 possible challenges per game from the coaches plus any plays within 2 minutes. That is a small percentage. That is called twisting the data to make it sound good. And if there wasn't a penalty to challenging a play then the number would also be higher especially in the second half when those timeouts are crucial.
RE: Seems to me ..  
ColHowPepper : 8/9/2019 9:30 am : link
In comment 14524112 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that armbars and grabbing will be considered egregious!!
Ballantine's two plays are instructive: the pass break-up, clearly he had firm, more than momentary hold on the receiver's arm, good reversal. The pick stood, not challenged, and if it had been, imo, original call sustained, momentary touch of the hand that didn't impact anything.
This sucks, teams will be challenging everything "just in case"  
PatersonPlank : 8/9/2019 9:31 am : link
The games will take 5 hours
I can't believe the NFL  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/9/2019 9:59 am : link
caved to the pressure of a blown call by the Saints and their fans.

I have ZERO doubt this rule will be repealed next season. Absolutely ridiculous with these reviews now.
RE: It's in for 2019 regular season but it's not permanent  
KeoweeFan : 8/9/2019 10:02 am : link
In comment 14524114 shyster said:
Quote:
yet.

Can be challenged from all perspectives, defense, offense, calls and non-calls.

Booth has sole review last two minutes of each half.

Challenges still have the same limit. Challenges seeking OPI to take TDs off the board will be the most critical, I think. nfl.com - ( New Window )

Instead of a challenge flag for PI, the lesser of two evils would seem to be to give the booth the responsibility to call egregious PI infractions the entire game.

That's also a slippery slope, but much better IMO than the current challenge "experiment".
That's a different discussion...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 10:04 am : link
but I think all replays should be initiated by New York.

Overturn ridiculously bad calls and avoid the delays on borderline crap that oftentimes doesn't even materially impact the game.
RE: RE: Seems to me ..  
KeoweeFan : 8/9/2019 10:10 am : link
In comment 14524121 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14524112 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


that armbars and grabbing will be considered egregious!!



Well, we'll find out what their definition of egregious is. The problem is with all these different refs you may have differing opinions. Is it one ref per game that reviews it? I don't think it will be clear on an armbar unless it impedes the receiver going up to catch the ball or blatantly knocks him off his route but that is just how I feel.

The problem remains!
The ref may take a re-look and agree that a foul indeed occurred but in his mind it was not "egregious".
But the fans in the stadium and on TV have now witnessed the "non-egregious" foul in multiple views in slow motion and will be irate if the foul is not called on the opposition! This will not end well.
RE: That's a different discussion...  
sb from NYT Forum : 8/9/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14524269 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but I think all replays should be initiated by New York.

Overturn ridiculously bad calls and avoid the delays on borderline crap that oftentimes doesn't even materially impact the game.


This makes a lot of sense, I agree.
This rule is a disaster  
Rudy5757 : 8/9/2019 12:01 pm : link
Next thing is to take the refs off the field and just have a guy place the ball.

They missed a call in a big game and everyone just like they do every year. This is not the proper response. You can call Pass interference on almost every play, its a judgement call just like the guy in the booth has to make a judgement. There is not cut and dried way to make the correct call.

The one on Ballentine was a PI because he grabbed the arm but the ref didnt see it so in my mind it was a good play. He was probably taught that way as well. even the guys in the booth make mistakes. If a play has to be reviewed more than 1 time to make the call the original call should stand.
Definitely not a fan of the rule  
Dinger : 8/9/2019 1:05 pm : link
I'm in agreement it will be a disaster. Think this is going to be another reason to not watch the game live. Between what is a catch and isn't a catch, coordinated TD celebrations, extremely long commercials and now this rule, better off DVRing and watching 2 hours after kickoff.....

on a separate note, really, this has been one of the most insightful posts on BBI in a long time.
RE: This sucks, teams will be challenging everything  
fredgbrown : 8/11/2019 1:20 pm : link
In comment 14524196 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
The games will take 5 hours


It says in the link that each coach will have 2 challenges per game so they can't challenge everything.
IT's going to be a clusterfuck  
Torrag : 8/11/2019 1:42 pm : link
That's really all we need to know. But what rule in the NFL isn't?
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