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Big Picture - psychological impact of last night

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2019 10:05 am
I want to preface my comments with the following:

Daniel Jones is not going to replicate what he did last night for the rest of the preseason. And his detractors will come out of the woodwork with the first incompletion and especially first interception.

This thread is not meant to be an Eli Manning bash-fest.

Now with that out of the way:

Eli is in an unenviable position right now. The only way last night could have gone worse for him is if he threw a pick-6 before Jones came onto the field and did what he did. Expectations for Jones went from the outhouse to the penthouse in just one drive (it's actually a bit comical).

But on a rebuilding ball club, there will be calls for Jones with every Manning misfire and three-and-out. I wish it didn't come down to this, but it is what it is.

It's going to be very interesting to see how the Giants handle this.
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I feel bad for Eli  
Dr. D : 8/9/2019 12:05 pm : link
not only did he play behind a horrible OL for about 6 years, but the defense was also terrible for most of that time.

Someone (maybe Papa) said last night that the Giants lead the league since around '15 in losing games after leading with less than 2 minutes in the game.

How many more wins would Eli and the Giants have if the defense didn't BLOW SO MANY F*ING GAMES the last 5 years!

I feel good about DJ and the future, but still hope Eli goes out on a high.

RE: RE: RE: Jones will eventually be handed the starting job  
GiantEgo : 8/9/2019 12:16 pm : link
Quote:




The film is the film.


Assuming you know what your looking at
Obviously Eli was feeling...  
bw in dc : 8/9/2019 12:21 pm : link
the pressure way before last night. He looks like he used the off-season to get into much better shape. And early reports seemed to indicate he was really getting much better zip on the ball. I trace this right back to the selection of Jones. Competition, or at least the threat of it, is a great motivator.

So count me in on last night not being a good one for Eli.

Eli had one bland drive, with a very odd roll-out pass play, that basically gave Anderson a chance to quickly show off his punting. But then Jones comes in and moves the team down the field efficiently and hangs a TD on the scoreboard, courtesy of his arm.

The fans get fired up and Jones is the talk of a lot of opinion shows this morning. He built up a lot of equity last night.

So this is now a QB controversy. Game on. Eli is now officially on the clock. And he's going to need to do something very positive to eclipse what Jones did last night.





Very detailed..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 12:23 pm : link
breakdown about Eli and yet, you whiff completely on who came in to punt!
Nothing wrong with having pressure to perform  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/9/2019 12:25 pm : link
It's healthy.

RE: Very detailed..  
bw in dc : 8/9/2019 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14524624 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
breakdown about Eli and yet, you whiff completely on who came in to punt!


If you are going to whiff on something in preseason, I think the punter falls into the acceptable category...
don't feel bad for Eli  
stoneman : 8/9/2019 12:29 pm : link
He is making more than Brady - LOL

I think everybody is really reaching here and over-engineering (for both side of the ledger). Jones had one great series, he will have some bad ones. Eli had one so-so series, he will have some great ones. Pre-season game 1- some good, some bad playes. Next game please.
I just found..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 12:30 pm : link
it funny that you insert a Teddy Roosevelt-like saying "Competition, or at least the threat of it, is a great motivator" - provide some details about how it was a poor showing for Eli and then wrap it up in a bow with the coup de grace

Quote:
that basically gave Anderson a chance to quickly show off his punting


You can admit that at that point you had flipped over to see your favorite team against the Browns:)
It was nice to see Jones perform well  
Milton : 8/9/2019 12:31 pm : link
But it has nothing to do with Eli or the starting job. All it means is that the Eli-bashers now think they have a leg to stand on. But it's all in their head. Eli will start the season and the Giants will play well and win games.
p.s.--Let's not forget that the Jets took their first string defense off the field when Jones came in and the Giants left their starting OL in to protect him.
RE: I just found..  
bw in dc : 8/9/2019 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14524635 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
it funny that you insert a Teddy Roosevelt-like saying "Competition, or at least the threat of it, is a great motivator" - provide some details about how it was a poor showing for Eli and then wrap it up in a bow with the coup de grace



Quote:


that basically gave Anderson a chance to quickly show off his punting



You can admit that at that point you had flipped over to see your favorite team against the Browns:)


It was actually the Ravens game. I get both feeds.

Nonetheless, well played...
RE: don't feel bad for Eli  
Dr. D : 8/9/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14524633 stoneman said:
Quote:
He is making more than Brady - LOL

I think everybody is really reaching here and over-engineering (for both side of the ledger). Jones had one great series, he will have some bad ones. Eli had one so-so series, he will have some great ones. Pre-season game 1- some good, some bad playes. Next game please.

Obviously Eli's made a shitload of money, but I think there's more to it for guys like him.

And I don't feel sorry for Eli because of last night. I feel sorry for him because Reese put together such a shitty team for about 7 years of his career. Possibly even derailing his shot at the HOF.

If Jones..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 12:38 pm : link
turns out to be the real deal, I'll gladly pose in a photo-op with you where DJ can pour a beer over our heads as we bow down at his feet....

I'd have Bruce do it, but the fucker shuns alcohol.....
I used to shun alcohol  
Dr. D : 8/9/2019 12:43 pm : link
and then I turned 17 (which I figured was close enough to the drinking age at the time of 18). We've been pretty friendly ever since.
RE: the thing is - its not going to be clear  
KeoweeFan : 8/9/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14524306 ron mexico said:
Quote:
You are going to have a decade and a half of experience in Eli vs a few quarters of pre-season with Jones.

You are going to have to make a leap of faith to make the switch, and when you do, Jones probably wont give them a better chance to win at that very moment.

If you wait till its clear, you are either waiting for mathematical elimination or next year


You also have to question how much of his defense did Greg Williams show last night, knowing they would play again during the season.

I'm a great DJ fan, but it is one thing to throw rapidly "into the basket" against a vanilla defense vs what they may see when the real bullets fly.
Jones would be the first to tell you that Eli is much more advanced in reading defenses and calling protections than the rookie.
RE: Nothing wrong with having pressure to perform  
Percy : 8/9/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14524627 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It's healthy.
Agree.
RE: Didn't Jones  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 8/9/2019 3:04 pm : link
In comment 14524308 bc4life said:
Quote:
have the 1s on OLine against some of the 2s on defense?

Jones hasn't even mastered the offense yet. People are getting way ahead of themselves


I'm fairly certain most of us know that it is really early. You aren't telling us anything new. Why can't you let people have their moment?
speaking of psychological impacts...  
bigbluehoya : 8/9/2019 3:08 pm : link
imagine taking the time to log in today to throw cold water on the excitement about just-drafted quarterback who looked really good in our first glimpse at him?
RE: speaking of psychological impacts...  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/9/2019 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14524837 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
imagine taking the time to log in today to throw cold water on the excitement about just-drafted quarterback who looked really good in our first glimpse at him?


bc4life and BBelle21 are asshurt. Some fans they are.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/9/2019 3:13 pm : link
My biggest problem with the guys who keep saying "let's not get ahead of ourselves! Pump the brakes!, etc.." - is that they are the same exact ones who would have been all over the board talking about what a shitty pick he was had he struggled.

It doesn't go both ways for many of these posters. If Jones and Haskins' performances last night were flipped, you better believe there'd be posters here already convinced that we blew it by not taking Haskins and that Jones is already a bust.

There's really no need to tell people to temper their enthusiasm. Most people already understand that 5 passes are 5 passes. That's all it was.

But I also don't understand the mentality where it's just so necessary to make sure a wet blanket is tossed over any remotely positive takeaway.

We should all be very happy and encouraged by what we saw last night, while also being able to put it in perspective and understand that it's just one drive and that there's a very long way to go in this process.
LimpDick in Hoboken  
bc4life : 8/9/2019 3:29 pm : link
Asshurt? GFY. The guy had 6 snaps had the 1st blocking for him palying against the Jets 2s. They din't blitz or dsiguise coverages. There's reason for optimism but way premature to talk about benching Eli.

If you go back and read my posts on draft day I'm one of the few who admitted they weren't qualified to judge the pick, but admitted it caught me off guard. And, gave him the benfit of the doubt.

Get your facts straight asshole.
agree with arc  
Dr. D : 8/9/2019 3:58 pm : link
..
RE: RE: RE: Jones will eventually be handed the starting job  
ron mexico : 8/9/2019 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14524570 since1925 said:
Quote:
In comment 14524518 GiantEgo said:


Quote:


In comment 14524422 since1925 said:
Quote: Last night, we watched a guy with zero pass rush against him throw to the first man in his progression five times. That was nice. I root for everyone in a blue uniform.

There was more to it than that have a look at this

There was no bigger detractor of Jones than Mark Schofield who called him a 4th or 5th round talent. Link - ( New Window )



Watch the film in the article you posted. Jones is never under any duress in the pocket. And on every single throw, he looks at one guy and then throws to that guy. Exactly as I stated.

It's okay to be excited. But a person can be excited and still accept reality. The film is the film.


I'd say he had significant pressure on the 1st and 4th throw. The first one being his own fault, but non the less.
can't believe I never noticed we had a poster named  
Dr. D : 8/9/2019 4:01 pm : link
LimpDick in Hoboken
arc is 100% right.  
bceagle05 : 8/9/2019 4:04 pm : link
I'll add that it was hilarious to see the reporters on Twitter clowning Giants fans for "wanting to put Jones in the HOF now." These same reporters destroyed the kid before he even shook Roger Goodell's hand on draft night, and they have the unmitigated gall (Stephen A. Smith voice) to laugh at others for being reactionary.
RE: LimpDick in Hoboken  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/9/2019 4:06 pm : link
In comment 14524861 bc4life said:
Quote:
Asshurt? GFY. The guy had 6 snaps had the 1st blocking for him palying against the Jets 2s. They din't blitz or dsiguise coverages. There's reason for optimism but way premature to talk about benching Eli.

If you go back and read my posts on draft day I'm one of the few who admitted they weren't qualified to judge the pick, but admitted it caught me off guard. And, gave him the benfit of the doubt.

Get your facts straight asshole.


My bad. You're clearly not asshurt in the least.














More like, extremely asshurt.
gfy  
bc4life : 8/9/2019 4:56 pm : link
it's a big site - let's just stay away each other
Haha.  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/9/2019 5:16 pm : link
Sooo mad.
.....  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 8/9/2019 6:55 pm : link
I think that 3 yard completion on the rollout showed Eliís limitations. The reason the tight end was covered so tightly is because the defender has zero worries about Eli as a rusher. There was daylight there to tuck and run for at least 8 yards if the defender was going to stick with the receiver like that
This thread is an unfortunate but yet perfect example  
Jimmy Googs : 8/9/2019 7:43 pm : link
of presenting how way too many Giant fans on BBI have a self concept problem...
RE: RE: speaking of psychological impacts...  
BBelle21 : 8/9/2019 8:32 pm : link
In comment 14524841 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14524837 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


imagine taking the time to log in today to throw cold water on the excitement about just-drafted quarterback who looked really good in our first glimpse at him?



bc4life and BBelle21 are asshurt. Some fans they are.


Goodness itís really weird that youíre still thinking about this. Like I said in the game thread...insecure. Eric asked the ďgalsĒ to get over it. I did. What about you? Btw, stop questioning others fandom. It comes off as, I donít know, asshurt
RE: This thread is an unfortunate but yet perfect example  
crick n NC : 8/9/2019 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14525195 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
of presenting how way too many Giant fans on BBI have a self concept problem...


Hi I'm crick and I have a self concept problem
There you go! Thatís a good start  
Jimmy Googs : 8/9/2019 9:06 pm : link
admitting you have this issue.

Except I know Crick doesnít but he is willing to post this to show others everything wiil be ok...
Feel bad for Eli?  
trueblueinpw : 8/9/2019 9:09 pm : link
Biggest Eli fan ever. But I donít feel bad for him. What a career! What a life! But he needs to be terrific and win all season or itís an easy choice to start the rook. Someone said this Giants team isnít a ďwin nowĒ team, but I beg to differ. Barks is a RB and they donít last in the NFL.
RE: There you go! Thatís a good start  
crick n NC : 8/9/2019 9:43 pm : link
In comment 14525346 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
admitting you have this issue.

Except I know Crick doesnít but he is willing to post this to show others everything wiil be ok...


Hi Googs!
RE: This thread is an unfortunate but yet perfect example  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/9/2019 11:07 pm : link
In comment 14525195 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
of presenting how way too many Giant fans on BBI have a self concept problem...


You really can't make up the amount of irony dripping off this steaming pile of shit post.
RE: RE: RE: speaking of psychological impacts...  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/9/2019 11:11 pm : link
In comment 14525289 BBelle21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14524841 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 14524837 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


imagine taking the time to log in today to throw cold water on the excitement about just-drafted quarterback who looked really good in our first glimpse at him?



bc4life and BBelle21 are asshurt. Some fans they are.



Goodness itís really weird that youíre still thinking about this. Like I said in the game thread...insecure. Eric asked the ďgalsĒ to get over it. I did. What about you? Btw, stop questioning others fandom. It comes off as, I donít know, asshurt


"What's the big deal about? It wasn't even against the starters."

Geeeeeek.
.  
crick n NC : 8/9/2019 11:18 pm : link
'psychological impact of last night'...  
Torrag : 8/10/2019 2:36 am : link
This post is a serious over reaction to the situation. The media is sure to follow.
RE: RE: This thread is an unfortunate but yet perfect example  
Jimmy Googs : 8/10/2019 6:07 am : link
In comment 14525538 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14525195 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


of presenting how way too many Giant fans on BBI have a self concept problem...



You really can't make up the amount of irony dripping off this steaming pile of shit post.


Patient #1
RE: RE: speaking of psychological impacts...  
Canton : 8/10/2019 7:25 am : link
In comment 14524841 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14524837 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


imagine taking the time to log in today to throw cold water on the excitement about just-drafted quarterback who looked really good in our first glimpse at him?



bc4life and BBelle21 are asshurt. Some fans they are.


Again, the voice of reason. Good post.
RE: RE: RE: RE: speaking of psychological impacts...  
BBelle21 : 8/10/2019 10:16 am : link
In comment 14525540 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14525289 BBelle21 said:


Quote:


In comment 14524841 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 14524837 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


imagine taking the time to log in today to throw cold water on the excitement about just-drafted quarterback who looked really good in our first glimpse at him?



bc4life and BBelle21 are asshurt. Some fans they are.



Goodness itís really weird that youíre still thinking about this. Like I said in the game thread...insecure. Eric asked the ďgalsĒ to get over it. I did. What about you? Btw, stop questioning others fandom. It comes off as, I donít know, asshurt



"What's the big deal about? It wasn't even against the starters."

Geeeeeek.


Aww still thinking about it I see. Some of us gals get over things faster than others
One thought I had was about the weather delay.  
Matt M. : 8/10/2019 10:46 am : link
Do we know if Jones was slated to remain in the game if there was no delay? If he was, it may not have only been the delay that kept him out. Did Shurmer decide to end his night there so it was only a very positive experience?

On the team level, I thought there was a very positive psychological impact. It may have only been pre-season game #1. But, I think getting a win was important. They want to shed the losing environment. Getting a W out of the gate is a big boost. They also continued to outplay the Jets with every level of reserves. Maybe we actually have some depth this year.

As for Eli, I agree with you Eric. But, that position can also change with 3 more games this summer. We can't really expect 4 games from Jones with 100% completion rate, no INTs, etc. So, I am sure we will see some of the mistakes. We also were made aware of a mental mistake on the very first play where he did not put Ellison in motion.

Moving forward, as I said in another thread, I am 100% comfortable with the plan for Eli to start. He has also had a good camp. This should be his season to lose. But, there should be a short leash. IF they have 2 or 3 losses early, I have no problem shifting to Jones. But, if this team is winning, stick with Eli. Either way, there are absolutely NO circumstances under which I would even consider re-signing Eli. Even if he has an other worldly season and they win the SB, it would be irresponsible to re-sign him. He has not shown the kind of late career resiliency Brady has, so it would be unreasonable to expect sustained success. So, win or lose, next year is all about Jones.
Matt  
dep026 : 8/10/2019 11:08 am : link
If there wasnít a weather delay... Shurmur said he was going to get at least 1 more series.
Well if its handled like benching of Eli  
micky : 8/10/2019 1:34 pm : link
for Geno Smith, it's going to be a clusterfuck.
Does anyone think DJ comes in at halftime? Seems like there were  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/10/2019 2:54 pm : link
plenty of times last year that Shurmur was annoyed with Eli (throw it to Odell, missing the wide open guy on the 2 point conversion)
RE: Does anyone think DJ comes in at halftime? Seems like there were  
ron mexico : 8/10/2019 3:10 pm : link
In comment 14526115 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
plenty of times last year that Shurmur was annoyed with Eli (throw it to Odell, missing the wide open guy on the 2 point conversion)


I don't. I think they will only make the change once. They won't make an in game switch only to have Eli start again next week (if that's what you are suggesting).


RE: RE: Does anyone think DJ comes in at halftime? Seems like there were  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/10/2019 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14526136 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14526115 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


plenty of times last year that Shurmur was annoyed with Eli (throw it to Odell, missing the wide open guy on the 2 point conversion)



I don't. I think they will only make the change once. They won't make an in game switch only to have Eli start again next week (if that's what you are suggesting).



Oh no I wasn't suggesting that at all. But now that I think about it probably best not to throw your 1st round pick QB in at halftime with minimal practice time unless Eli is really stinking up the joint which is unlikely.
Friend of mine, that was  
section125 : 8/10/2019 5:20 pm : link
an All Big 10 guard and played a season with the Saints, said Jones is the real deal. Said he looked very good and made all the correct reads while delivering good passes. Says if he has a decent line, he'll be a star. He says he thinks Jones is a cross between Archie and Peyton.

Also said Shurmur was smart to take him out after a good outing for positive reinforcement.

FYI, he had told me after the draft that Flowers would not make it as an NFL lineman because his technique was terrible.
As far as the reads thing  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/10/2019 5:55 pm : link
Greg Cosell seemed pretty clear that all 5 passes were not typical progression reads and they kept things very simple just to get his feet wet.
RE: As far as the reads thing  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/10/2019 6:55 pm : link
In comment 14526264 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Greg Cosell seemed pretty clear that all 5 passes were not typical progression reads and they kept things very simple just to get his feet wet.


No rookie QB is making full field reads and coaches rarely expect them to unless they are a pure pocket passer type like Eli. That is why those guys tend to struggle so much as rookies, while the mobile guys generally fare a bit better.
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