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Are we feeling a little bit better about our receivers?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2019 10:36 am
Obviously way too early and too small a sample size, but I thought the wide receivers as a group did some interesting things.

I was also left with the impression that these guys have to be all-stars to Daniel Jones considering his targets at Duke.
Not really, considering they may be without Tate  
barens : 8/9/2019 10:39 am : link
for 4 games, and while I'm sure Shepard's going to play, we don't know the extent of his injury.

I'll say this tho, Fowler is growing on me.
Fowler played well.  
Chip : 8/9/2019 10:39 am : link
The QBs also dont't have to look for OBJ all the time which will help Engram and Shepherd have better years. I was excited about Coleman until the injury. We can also add a receiver at cut time for a low pick if necessary.
White Jr. looks like a keeper to me...  
Chris684 : 8/9/2019 10:41 am : link
Overall Carl said it best about this current group.

You can't look to replace the talent of Beckham, because you won't be able to.

But by committee, you can definitely replace the production by spreading the ball around.
they caught the ball  
bc4life : 8/9/2019 10:42 am : link
but Jets played vanilla. and in real game they won't have benefit of OBJ drawing heat.

First few games will be real tests, espcially with no Tate and no o# 1 they have to game plan for.
Yes. Losing OBJ definitely weakens our receiving corps, but it seems  
Ira : 8/9/2019 10:43 am : link
like we have very good depth at that position behind Tate and Shepard. I particularly enjoyed watching Reggie White Jr, who I've been following since he joined the team. Improving out o-line should give all our receivers more time to get open.
I liked what I saw  
Mark from Jersey : 8/9/2019 10:44 am : link
amazing what can happen when a QB has time.

Having Barkley out there will only help things.

Going to be a tough competition:
1 - SS
2 - GT
3 - RS
4 - CL (Specials)
5 & 6 - Fowler and Alonzo seem to have the leg up. White flashed but may need some seasoning (PS). I feel like Ford is one of the odd men out but it is only one game.
Eric...  
ryanmkeane : 8/9/2019 10:44 am : link
i've been thinking about the collective "talent" of the receivers vs the actual scheme and how eli/shurmur like to spread the ball around. Let's take the Washington game last year as an example, Eli looked great spreading the ball around without Beckham and we were dictating play out there.

I think most of us spend too much time thinking we need bonafide studs at the WR position for this to be a good team. While there are absolutely good arguments to be made for that, i think more often than not, the scheme, play calling, and overall QB play is what makes the difference. Look at the playoff teams from this past season. A team like the Rams has some very solid receivers, but they aren't world beaters.

Tate (obviously the suspension is a killer), Shepard, and a few other guys playing support roles I think are more than adequate to get the job done for the offense that we want to have. Lest we forget Engram, who is a huge weapon at TE/WR as well. I think we'll be fine.

The biggest issue with this team right now is the pass rush.
a little yes.  
Andy in Boston : 8/9/2019 10:44 am : link
something about DG and crew the last 2 years.....vs. Reese's last few years....our depth seems to be improving and overall talent evaluation seems to be improving.
Also  
Mark from Jersey : 8/9/2019 10:46 am : link
doubtful we cut Slayton. Hopefully the hammy isn't that bad or we IR him.
Remember  
Toth029 : 8/9/2019 10:46 am : link
No Engram either. Or Barkely.

They'll be fine.
As i often harped upon, losing a diva receiver  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/9/2019 10:47 am : link
Is likely addition by subtraction in Shurmur's offense. And we saw a bit of that yesterday and end of last year. On paper JAGy WRs like Thielen and Diggs excel in his O. They ain't exactly Randy Moss or Megatron.

Football is one of the least discrete sports out there, it's highly dynamical.
I've always thought RB and WR is a luxury  
Giantfan in skinland : 8/9/2019 10:50 am : link
Pair a good QB with a good OL and you can manage with replacement level players at RB and WR (we obviously have the luxury of an exceptional talent at RB). It doesn't mean + players at RB/WR don't help, I've just never viewed that as where you need to start to be successful. So to me, whether this team sinks or swims depends on the play of the OL. They did their job last night and I think we saw the difference.
We have a bunch of decent #3 / #4 types.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/9/2019 10:50 am : link
If reasonably healthy, the corps could be decent once Shepard heals and Tate returns. Engram is key, and it will help if Slayton can stretch the field.

Guys like Fowler, Latimer, Russell and R.Shepard aren't going to create much separation on their own, even against man coverage. That makes the QB's job really hard. How many perfect throws can you expect from Eli - or even from SuperDaniel?
fun facts  
Bill2 : 8/9/2019 10:51 am : link
Rank order which receivers had the highest degrees of separation last year and by how much?

- Odell Beckham Jr?

- Sterling Shepard?

- Golden Tate?

- Zack Ertz?

- Evan Engram?
I don't think WR will be a strength by any stretch  
bigbluehoya : 8/9/2019 10:52 am : link
but the interesting thing about it is that there's so much parity within the group that a ton of different guys should get targets, which can almost make it harder to game plan for.
RE: fun facts  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/9/2019 10:53 am : link
In comment 14524425 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Rank order which receivers had the highest degrees of separation last year and by how much?

- Odell Beckham Jr?

- Sterling Shepard?

- Golden Tate?

- Zack Ertz?

- Evan Engram?


I feel like this is going to be one of those lies, damned lies, and analytics type posts.
Shep will be just fine for week 1  
ZogZerg : 8/9/2019 10:55 am : link
I thought some of the receivers made some tough contested catches. It was great to see. We just need 1 or 2 of them to step up for the regular season.
I absolutely  
jvm52106 : 8/9/2019 10:56 am : link
do. The Giants now, assuming all stay healthy, get healthy and get off suspension, have a WR group that is varied and all will be counted on. Each of that group knows they will be playing adn will be playing a fairly decent amount. Everyone has a role to play and could be the star that week. It has worked for YEARS for the Patriots.

The more varied your team is, the less able other teams are to single out what you are doing. Barkley will be the focus of the defense but, even though he is a single star player, he is different than a single star WR. He can carry the ball, he could be blocking and he could line out wide or head out in the pattern from the RB position. Defenses will need to watch Barkley at every level.

Our WR's, will be facing single coverage or looser zone coverage because of Barkley. Any one of them could be the #1 receiver on any given play or series. I like this version far better than what we have been the last 4 years.

The Oline helps with all of this of course!
I dont know yet  
MotownGIANTS : 8/9/2019 10:56 am : link
on 1 hand no Barkley, Engram or Shep .... but then it is 1st pre-season game so no real prep, bland D, etc etc however did not seem like guys were running the wrong routes (yet no hot reads) and no dropsies per se....

I am optimisic but tempered I want to see how it goes in game 3 (1st half or so).
as long as 2 of Engram + Shep + Tate are healthy they should be ok  
Eric on Li : 8/9/2019 10:57 am : link
and obviously Barkley too. In a balanced attack options for the QB are more important than individuals having the talent to beat double teams. Just about any competent starting WR can win 1 on 1 pretty regularly and a balanced approach will get at least 1 or 2 options with 1 on 1's every play.

Fowler and Latimer are competent behind them, but likely won't win as frequently. Solid depth. Shepard too but to a lesser degree, he's mostly a ST'er.

A deep threat would definitely add a dimension because it's even more risky for a defense to go 1 on 1 with someone who can go 80 yards. Slayton filling the role Coleman could have played would be big. Ted ginn was able to fill that role for mostly plodding/run oriented Carolina offenses in recent history.
Zeke  
Bill2 : 8/9/2019 10:58 am : link
There is truth in that, much like PFF, if we don't like the results we can always strongly blame the methodology and the source.

If we do...we be posting FACTS!

if it gives us pause...we all win


Or we can dig deeper and analyze the year to year trends so we double check our recency bias
No  
DavidinBMNY : 8/9/2019 11:00 am : link
But comments about the OL helping - resonate. With time, you don't need the greatest WR in the league to make plays. I do think the WR are Team first guys who do more then just catch the ball. So the make-up of the unit is solid.

I don't think the Jets have much at CB. Let's see WR against better CB play.
RE: I liked what I saw  
DavidinBMNY : 8/9/2019 11:01 am : link
In comment 14524394 Mark from Jersey said:
Quote:
amazing what can happen when a QB has time.

Having Barkley out there will only help things.

Going to be a tough competition:
1 - SS
2 - GT
3 - RS
4 - CL (Specials)
5 & 6 - Fowler and Alonzo seem to have the leg up. White flashed but may need some seasoning (PS). I feel like Ford is one of the odd men out but it is only one game.
Tate being supsended opens a spot. And if Ford is a primary returner he will make the team for that over Alonzo.
Hard to judge OL  
RollBlue : 8/9/2019 11:30 am : link
first series against Jets they looked like crap, but it was only 3 plays. We won't know about Oline and WRs until week 1. I would really like to see them play the starters 8-10 quarters over the last 3 pre season games - they need to come out ready to play at Dallas.
Slightly separate case,  
Moondawg : 8/9/2019 11:36 am : link
but with the exception of Plax, Eli always seemed to do worse when he had a receiver that he felt he had to force it to. Shockey and Beckham at least.
TJ Jones was a surprise  
rasbutant : 8/9/2019 11:37 am : link
HE was involved a lot, plus added Special Teams...i think there could be a good chance he makes the team.

So,
Sterling Shepard
Golden Tate
Cody Latimer
Darius Slayton
T.J. Jones

That leavings....(fighting for what 2 spots?)
Russell Shepard - I think he has the best shot.
Alonzo Russell
Bennie Fowler
Reggie White, Jr.

I don't think these guys really have a shot...
Brittan Golden, Alex Wesley, DaíMari Scott, Amba Etta-Tawo
not at all  
islander1 : 8/9/2019 11:42 am : link
we are pretty screwed. Shep MIGHT be ready for week 1. Tate out 4 games.

Thin, thin, thin.
The key is Engram and Shepard....  
George from PA : 8/9/2019 12:00 pm : link
The Other WRs and TEs will supplement the key guys.

Are they explosive, NO

More steady and reliable WRs to compliment the explosive, all-world Barkley.
RE: White Jr. looks like a keeper to me...  
Dinger : 8/9/2019 12:47 pm : link
In comment 14524378 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Overall Carl said it best about this current group.

You can't look to replace the talent of Beckham, because you won't be able to.

But by committee, you can definitely replace the production by spreading the ball around.


And to your later two points, with Shepard and Engram you have two receivers who have above average talent and without the 'diva' personality (I hate the expression but not sure how else to describe OBJ), the QBs feel less pressured to force passes to a receiver who isn't open.
Not really. The Jets secondary isn't good.  
Brown Recluse : 8/9/2019 1:03 pm : link
Hoping one of these young guys will step up though.
I do feel better about the wr group  
ChicagoMarty : 8/9/2019 1:05 pm : link
Fowler looks real comfortable operating in the endzone.

Latimer looked confident in his routs.

Shepard impressed.

Let's hope they can keep it up
Not really....real basic coverages and the Jets secondary is putrid  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/9/2019 1:20 pm : link
and our guys weren't getting much seperation vs man.
Agreed RE: depth  
mittenedman : 8/9/2019 1:26 pm : link
I like the depth even after the Coleman injury and Tate suspension.

Even Alonzo Russell and Alex Wesley look like players. Wesley is a pure slot guy.

Shurmur's built a reputation as a good offensive coach with a player-friendly system, and I think that's baring out here. He had the Eagles going with Foles, the Browns with Weeden and the Vikes with Keenum. He's never had a stud QB.
Latimer looks slow out there imo.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 8/9/2019 1:57 pm : link
I was impressed by White and Wesley. White;s hands looked good. I thought Wesley looked explosive.
RE: fun facts  
slickwilly : 8/9/2019 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14524425 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Rank order which receivers had the highest degrees of separation last year and by how much?

- Odell Beckham Jr?

- Sterling Shepard?

- Golden Tate?

- Zack Ertz?

- Evan Engram?


I looked it up. Engram #1 overall, Hogan #2 at 4.1, only players over 4

Engram 4.4, Ertz 3.2, Shepard 3.1, Tate 3, OBJ 3
I wondr how much  
Jay in Toronto : 8/9/2019 2:32 pm : link
downfield blocking skills (a la SS) will play a role in determining cuts?
Not Yet  
Percy : 8/9/2019 2:39 pm : link
No basis for saying otherwise.
If we keep 6  
5BowlsSoon : 8/9/2019 4:47 pm : link
1. Tate
2. Shepherd
3. Fowler
4. TJ Jones
5. DSlayton
6. ???

Latimore or Reggie White, Jr. which one?

Note: I definitely keep TJ because he is quick, has a resume that is appealing, and he can play as a PR. Latimore appears slower and doesnít seem to get separation. I donít know enough about Reggie White !
RE: Not Yet  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2019 4:49 pm : link
In comment 14524780 Percy said:
Quote:
No basis for saying otherwise.


Well there is some basis. They played a game last night.
Not at all  
Josh in the City : 8/9/2019 4:56 pm : link
I feel worse about them if anything. Average yards of separation on DJ's 5 completions was 1.4. That's abysmal.
feeling better?  
Torrag : 8/9/2019 5:01 pm : link
Nothing has changed. Why would we feel better? We played one drive against strting caliber defense and went three and out. I don't feel worse or better. there's just no basis to feel any differently...yet.
Second thought on my top 6  
5BowlsSoon : 8/9/2019 5:16 pm : link
I omitted both Russell Shepherd and Alonzo Shepherd, but maybe I am being a wee bit too hasty. Iím glad preseason in 4 weeks so we can get more data to analyze. Iím not wondering if Gmen would hide White on PS.
Weíve had ďgreatĒ WRs for a while now  
djm : 8/9/2019 5:47 pm : link
How far has that gotten us?

How about tough, solid dependable WRs with a bad ass TE and a bad ass OL and an amazing rb? Letís try that one out for size and see where it takes us.

PS Beckham hasnít been the best wr in the nfc east since 2016. Not that he canít recapture dominance in Cleveland, but my point is we arenít replacing dominance anymore. We are replacing a talented but oft injured wr who appeared a half step slower from what he showed in 2016 compared to last year.
RE: Weíve had ďgreatĒ WRs for a while now  
Greg from LI : 8/9/2019 5:51 pm : link
In comment 14525074 djm said:
Quote:
How far has that gotten us?

How about tough, solid dependable WRs with a bad ass TE and a bad ass OL and an amazing rb? Letís try that one out for size and see where it takes us.

PS Beckham hasnít been the best wr in the nfc east since 2016. Not that he canít recapture dominance in Cleveland, but my point is we arenít replacing dominance anymore. We are replacing a talented but oft injured wr who appeared a half step slower from what he showed in 2016 compared to last year.


Great WRs played a huge part in winning XLIV, no? Also, it remains to be seen if we have a "bad ass" TE. Finally, who are you claiming was the best receiver in the NFC East?
I dont think last night showed me anything about the WRs  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/9/2019 6:30 pm : link
They didnt play enough, and preseason isnt an accurate simulation of what these guys are going to face in real games.
we're a run first team  
bc4life : 8/9/2019 6:30 pm : link
play action stirs the drink
Non Issue  
WillVAB : 8/9/2019 7:38 pm : link
You donít need a stud WR to be good. Look at the Eagles. They manufacture a productive offense by getting contributions from a bunch of different receivers at WR, TE, and RB.

At the end of the day, the Giants just need to be efficient and productive on offense. They have enough weapons collectively to accomplish that.
I wasn't actually worried  
Joey in VA : 8/10/2019 4:24 am : link
That group played pretty well after Odell got hurt. They block, run solid routes and catch the football. It's not that hard.
A QB who recognizes the defense pre-snap and has time to throw...  
RickInCharlotte : 8/10/2019 8:56 am : link
will spread the ball around. Without time last year, Eli chose to force throws into coverage of the best receiver in hopes he could make a play. I'm optimistic about this year's WR corps, but if the QB doesn't have time to let the play develop, it doesn't matter.

What I like about Jones is his apparent ability to recognize the defense early, albeit the second team. I'm eager to see more, obviously.

Duggan has Slayton penciled in on the 53, but I'm increasingly puzzled by it when he hasn't played at all while several others have played and shined.
RE: If we keep 6  
BigBlueJuice : 8/10/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14524993 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
1. Tate
2. Shepherd
3. Fowler
4. TJ Jones
5. DSlayton
6. ???

Latimore or Reggie White, Jr. which one?

I like Reggie White Jr but I dont see how anyone of them beats Russell Shepard. Why he is the forgotten WR, he will have to carry a bunch of weight when Tate suspension occurs he is a seasoned veteran and one of the more reliable WRs we have.

Note: I definitely keep TJ because he is quick, has a resume that is appealing, and he can play as a PR. Latimore appears slower and doesnít seem to get separation. I donít know enough about Reggie White !
RE: RE: If we keep 6  
5BowlsSoon : 8/10/2019 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14525694 BigBlueJuice said:
Quote:
In comment 14524993 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


1. Tate
2. Shepherd
3. Fowler
4. TJ Jones
5. DSlayton
6. ???

Latimore or Reggie White, Jr. which one?

I like Reggie White Jr but I dont see how anyone of them beats Russell Shepard. Why he is the forgotten WR, he will have to carry a bunch of weight when Tate suspension occurs he is a seasoned veteran and one of the more reliable WRs we have.

Note: I definitely keep TJ because he is quick, has a resume that is appealing, and he can play as a PR. Latimore appears slower and doesnít seem to get separation. I donít know enough about Reggie White !



I think you are right about RShepherd. I may have underrated him...and like you said, with no Tate for 4, we will need experience. Slayton and white are still green....hopefully we can stash at least one on PS.
RE: I wasn't actually worried  
5BowlsSoon : 8/10/2019 1:21 pm : link
In comment 14525600 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
That group played pretty well after Odell got hurt. They block, run solid routes and catch the football. It's not that hard.


Same here. I still had to persuade a fellow Giants fan who still hasnít moved on from Odell that we are fine at WR without him and the trade has strengthened us in 3 other positions.
...  
christian : 8/11/2019 10:35 am : link
Concluding the Giants receivers are fine based on Thursday is about as wise as saying the Giants run game is in trouble.

Maybe it's more fair to say the Giants 2nd team guys played well? But also keep in mind that group is constituted of career almost of the leaguers Latimer, Fowler, and Shepard.

And guys like that are typically good enough to compete against backups, but something is missing in their skill set to have that translate to sustained success against starters and as part of the gameplan week-to-week.

I'll feel better when Tate, Shepard, Engram, and Barkley get on the field together and show the Giants can execute a pass game at all depths of the field, and can stretch defense enough to free up pressure on the run game.
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