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Giants History Question

Samiam : 8/9/2019 3:51 pm
Listening to Francesa subs before, Evan and JJ, talk about the process of Jones replacing Eli this year and comparing it to Eli replacing Kurt Warner. Iíve heard this type of discussion on other sports shows usually by hosts who were pretty young in 2004 when that happened. The basic theme was that the Accorsi and Coughlin showed a lot of courage back then sort of implying that Jones should replace Eli now but wonít because Eli is so beloved.

My question is related to 2004 and what went on. When the Giants got Eli, Accorsi also tried to retain Kerry Collins for a year but Collins rejected the offer. Hereís where I wonder if my memory is on target. I think the team wanted to go with Eli as a starter but because of blowback from the veterans on the team, and Kurt Warner was available, the front office was almost pressured into signing Warner. It came from 2 places. Strahan and Barber and others believed they had a good team and didnít want to ďwasteĒ a year while Eli learned the position. Two, there was so much friction between Coughlin and these veterans given his disciplined which contrasted with Fasselís style. In the end, they signed Warner and he started and the team got off to a good start.

Hereís where Iím fuzzy about the history. I donít think Warner played particularly in the 9 (?) games he started. I think the team played well and the schedule was fairly soft. I think Warner either held the ball in the pocket too long or got rid of it to quickly but something was off. He wasnít all the way back yet as a star QB. The Giants were facing a killer part of the schedule and assumed that they were going to lose maybe all or most of the remains 7 (?) games so they pulled Warner and threw Eli to the wolves. Eli looked horrible and the team lost but Eli came on very strong at the end and looked like he was the QB the hoped he would be.

Does anybody remember that season the way I do? Upfront Iím acknowledging my memory is bad but some things have stayed with me and this is one of them. If true, assuming Eli still, has something left on his fastball, I donít see much of a similarity between 2004 and this year.
Warner was put into an impossible situation...  
BamaBlue : 8/9/2019 3:56 pm : link
he went from league MVP and all-pro to placeholder for Eli Manning's inevitable ascension.

The Giants were never Kurt Warner's team and it was clear that he was on a very short leash. He didn't play badly, but was often criticized for holding the ball to long and taking too many sacks. There was some conjecture that the offensive line was under more pressure than they should have been.

The decision to play Eli was very awkward. I don't think the Giants handled it well and I think Warner still has resentment for that...
They were at one point 5-2  
Chris684 : 8/9/2019 3:58 pm : link
before falling to 5-4 after a bad loss on the road to Arizona I believe.

What I remember of Warner's time here is that his hand/grip/ball security was at that time still a major issue.

Yes, he went on to do good things in Arizona but if anyone thinks the 04 Giants were a contender with that team and that version of Warner, I disagree. They would have had a better finish to the year than what rookie Eli was able to do, obviously, but they weren't winning anything.
As I remember it ...  
Beer Man : 8/9/2019 4:01 pm : link
The entire O was lethargic, particularly Warner. It seemed that TC came to the conclusion that the team was going no where and therefore was a good time to acclimate the young Mr. Manning to the NFL, and begin the next chapter for the Giants. I didn't think Warner was forced on them, they wanted a mentor for Eli and Collins wouldn't resign because he felt slighted when they drafted Eli. As I remember, the team tried to resign Collins for only a year or two, and Collins thought he deserved better.
RE: As I remember it ...  
ron mexico : 8/9/2019 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14524926 Beer Man said:
Quote:
The entire O was lethargic, particularly Warner. It seemed that TC came to the conclusion that the team was going no where and therefore was a good time to acclimate the young Mr. Manning to the NFL, and begin the next chapter for the Giants. I didn't think Warner was forced on them, they wanted a mentor for Eli and Collins wouldn't resign because he felt slighted when they drafted Eli. As I remember, the team tried to resign Collins for only a year or two, and Collins thought he deserved better.


Collins was under contract. They wanted him to take a restructure or paycut (depending on who you ask). But they ended up just releasing him.
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I remember  
weaverpsu : 8/9/2019 4:27 pm : link
Eli playing just as well in preseason as Warner. They had a real battle and they decided to go with Warner. Also, Warner in my eyes was just seen as a stop-gap until Eli was ready to play.

I remember me not liking Warner at all despite our decent record. He would flinch any time there was pressure and I couldn't stand him. That's why I am biased about the rest of his career because he looked pretty shitty as a Giant.

Jones will learn under Eli. It will be a perfect scenario for a young QB to not have to have the pressure of performing. I honestly don't think he plays much if at all this season. Depends on whether we are in playoff contention which I think this team will be up till the end.
RE: I remember  
bluepepper : 8/9/2019 4:46 pm : link
In comment 14524954 weaverpsu said:
Quote:
Eli playing just as well in preseason as Warner. They had a real battle and they decided to go with Warner. Also, Warner in my eyes was just seen as a stop-gap until Eli was ready to play.

My recollection is Eli played well and had a real shot at being named opening day starter and then had a real clunker in the final pre-season game so Tom went with Warner.
Warner  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/9/2019 4:56 pm : link
was benched because he would hold onto the ball forever and just completely missed open receivers. He was getting sacked alot because he just held onto the ball for wayyy too long.
Warner had a thumb injury  
upnyg : 8/9/2019 5:24 pm : link
and it wasn't really healed. They were 5-2. then 5-4 before Eli went in. Warner was no more than a game manager forn the Giants at that time.
RE: I remember  
Poktown Pete : 8/9/2019 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14524954 weaverpsu said:
Quote:

I remember me not liking Warner at all despite our decent record. He would flinch any time there was pressure and I couldn't stand him. That's why I am biased about the rest of his career because he looked pretty shitty as a Giant.


I agree. I remember being livid when Warner would drop back and look and look, and then get sacked, time after time. He looked completely done to me. It was just infuriating to watch him play.
The OPs third paragraph  
djm : 8/9/2019 8:52 pm : link
That mentions Warnerís play and the overall team play leading up to the tough schedule is exactly on the mark. That team was in huge trouble when the switch to Eli was made. Tons of injuries, etc and warner was definitely holding the ball too long.
I didn't think they tailored the offense to Warner's strengths.  
Since1965 : 8/9/2019 10:53 pm : link
It seemed like they could have done a better job with that. Also,it should be noted, that Warner handled the demotion with dignity and class and would frequently be seen talking with Eli on the sidelines.
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