I try to read transcripts of every NFL coach weekly. 80% of it is fluff, but the other 20% can be enlightening.
Anyway..Shurmur noted one of the mistakes Daniel Jones made was forgetting to get the tight end in motion prior to his first pass. I re-watched...and noticed Rhett Ellison was staring at Jones pre-snap waiting to motion. The reason they needed to motion him was pass protection. Ellison, being savvy and quick-minded, darted across the line after the snap and still made the block. Had he not, Jones would have likely be clocked for the sack. Maybe he would have still gotten it off, but that isn't the point.
When it comes to PFF grades, or the "grades" of media, you have to understand that IT IS A FACT...they often don't know the full scale of responsibilities all around.
If Jones got sacked there, we immediately blame the blocking. "OL gets beat"..."RB didn't pick up the blitz". If Jones had gotten hit, how many of you would have known it was actually Jones' fault?
Something woefully similar happened to both Haskins and Lock in their first preseason games. I think things like this happen more than we will ever know...and because of that the grades coming from them MUST be taken LIGHTLY.
Personally...I use them for about 25% of the information they throw out there. Some of it is very useful...but the grading just won't ever make complete sense.
Jones grade adjusted from A to C- (just kidding, but still he has things to work on for sure).
I didn't re-watch the play, but either way, Jones mentioned this miss of his during the game when they interviewed him on NFL Network.
Should be done within the next 24 hours. But it couldn't have been better.
I didn't re-watch the play, but either way, Jones mentioned this miss of his during the game when they interviewed him on NFL Network.
Gallman, I guess not Perkins.
Not sure. From my limited interactions with them, they are pompous and won't ever admit shortcomings.
It’s hard not to be excited about this kids future.
So that’s where we’re going? A guy makes a great pass and there are REASONS why it was or shouldn’t have been completed?
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and Eric Mangini were making similar comments today. And both said Jones got very fortunate that the S was poor to react on the TD pass, and should have either been in position to make the INT or knock the pass down.
So that’s where we’re going? A guy makes a great pass and there are REASONS why it was or shouldn’t have been completed?
Nothing nefarious. Just pointing out what I heard about how the defense reacted on the TD.
Unfortunately for us we don't get that with Eli and many bbi'ers just have meltdowns on what they assume are bad Eli passes. No good deed goes unpunished.
See from Nick Turchyn (@Tmanic21) who posts here sometimes:
Hole Shot TD
🎯3x1 set, but trade Y to 2x2 and NO one follows (Zone Indicator)
🎯2-High safeties pre-snap that stays static, QB reads the flat defender and sees Zone Eyes
🎯Like the decisiveness w/Corner-Flat Combo vs C2, he WANTS to make the D pay w/the Corner
Someone responded and said it was a dangerous throw and should've been picked and that he had two other options to which Nick replied:
TBH hes throwing a boun Flat-7 Combo, reads the Flat defender correctly, and his timing/placement saves him a bit. The opposite side is mirrored essentially, so I like him aggressively challenging the short side of the field
Don't watch that garbage station until they fire Chris Carter after the vile accusations he made against the Giants.
The next time Pete Alonso hits a HR, remind me not to praise him but to blame the pitcher for not hitting his spot
Doubt it.
Just so many things we don't know about.
The next time Pete Alonso hits a HR, remind me not to praise him but to blame the pitcher for not hitting his spot
So in your world, we should just assume the defense was playing great defense and we just out-executed them.
Brilliant.
By definition a tight window throw will involve a defender who is inches away from making a play - we could do this with any great throw in traffic.
The media would blame the OL, when not their fault.
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and Eric Mangini were making similar comments today. And both said Jones got very fortunate that the S was poor to react on the TD pass, and should have either been in position to make the INT or knock the pass down.
So that’s where we’re going? A guy makes a great pass and there are REASONS why it was or shouldn’t have been completed?
Only in BWs world.
I liked what I saw. DJ, said he blew the motion, think last night after the game. But he won't make that mistake again.
I personally don't believe there's an immeasurable number of variables in assignments or keys one can't learn, but if "knowing" the assignment is a prerequisite on value it's hard to trust anyone outside of the org on that.
Football is in the same state baseball was 25 years ago -- the traditional definitions of success, and therefore value, feel incomplete because they are.
What baseball found is fundamentally the definitions of "success" were flawed, and so the pursuit of those flawed measures caused confusion and inaccurate measurements.
If the measurement is; did the player follow instruction that's not crazy hard to surmise. If the measurement is the did the player follow instruction and did that lead to success, a little harder. If the measurement is was the instruction the right choice and did the player follow it, now we're talking.
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The next time Pete Alonso hits a HR, remind me not to praise him but to blame the pitcher for not hitting his spot
So in your world, we should just assume the defense was playing great defense and we just out-executed them.
Brilliant.
Sounds like you're really stretching hoping for something to bitch about to be called right. And clearly Cris Carter who said the Giants were racist for picking Jones will never give him credit because he'll look like a buffoon for more than his football acumen.
Doubt it.
Don’t know what your problem with people liking Darnold is. Kids going to be very good
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Darnold's pass on the 3rd play of the game, are people genuflecting at St. Darnold today?
Doubt it.
Don’t know what your problem with people liking Darnold is. Kids going to be very good
I have no issues with it, I’m just saying it to fit a specific narrative
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Darnold's pass on the 3rd play of the game, are people genuflecting at St. Darnold today?
Doubt it.
Don’t know what your problem with people liking Darnold is. Kids going to be very good
I think the point is that the media has gone out of their way all day to knock down Jones’ performance while not treating other QBs the same. McNallys point is sound...Darnold very nearly threw an INT on the first play of the game but all I’ve heard all day is how good he looked. Jones throws a TD and it was only because the defense missed it lol.
Or my favorite ALL DAY - “let’s calm down, Jones was playing behind the first string offensive line against the Jets second string defense.”
It’s really amazing how everyone hates the NY Giants.
We can play these games all day long...
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In comment 14525007 McNally's_Nuts said:
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Darnold's pass on the 3rd play of the game, are people genuflecting at St. Darnold today?
Doubt it.
Don’t know what your problem with people liking Darnold is. Kids going to be very good
I think the point is that the media has gone out of their way all day to knock down Jones’ performance while not treating other QBs the same. McNallys point is sound...Darnold very nearly threw an INT on the first play of the game but all I’ve heard all day is how good he looked. Jones throws a TD and it was only because the defense missed it lol.
Or my favorite ALL DAY - “let’s calm down, Jones was playing behind the first string offensive line against the Jets second string defense.”
It’s really amazing how everyone hates the NY Giants.
Not that this proves anyone wrong, but no one likes admitting they're wrong. Especially not tools like Carter and Mangini.
We can play these games all day long...
Obviously the stakes were much higher but I bet you can similarly nitpick Manning to Manningham in the Super Bowl. Literally can do this with every play. Only do this with Jones because the media needs to save face.
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In comment 14525007 McNally's_Nuts said:
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Darnold's pass on the 3rd play of the game, are people genuflecting at St. Darnold today?
Doubt it.
Don’t know what your problem with people liking Darnold is. Kids going to be very good
I think the point is that the media has gone out of their way all day to knock down Jones’ performance while not treating other QBs the same. McNallys point is sound...Darnold very nearly threw an INT on the first play of the game but all I’ve heard all day is how good he looked. Jones throws a TD and it was only because the defense missed it lol.
Or my favorite ALL DAY - “let’s calm down, Jones was playing behind the first string offensive line against the Jets second string defense.”
It’s really amazing how everyone hates the NY Giants.
It’s more amazing you actually think that. Jones has gotten nice comments from many in the business on his debut.
Too many of you have a self concept problem as Giant fans...
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In comment 14525120 joeinpa said:
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In comment 14525007 McNally's_Nuts said:
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Darnold's pass on the 3rd play of the game, are people genuflecting at St. Darnold today?
Doubt it.
Don’t know what your problem with people liking Darnold is. Kids going to be very good
I think the point is that the media has gone out of their way all day to knock down Jones’ performance while not treating other QBs the same. McNallys point is sound...Darnold very nearly threw an INT on the first play of the game but all I’ve heard all day is how good he looked. Jones throws a TD and it was only because the defense missed it lol.
Or my favorite ALL DAY - “let’s calm down, Jones was playing behind the first string offensive line against the Jets second string defense.”
It’s really amazing how everyone hates the NY Giants.
It’s more amazing you actually think that. Jones has gotten nice comments from many in the business on his debut.
Too many of you have a self concept problem as Giant fans...
We must watch/listen to different shows...because that’s not what I’ve heard all day.
There’s a difference...
There’s a difference...
Lol, this stuff really bugs you huh? Thanks for the education. I’ll be sure to keep that in mind never.
Yes, I’m sure there were some people talking highly of Jones today, it’s just not what I HEARD while LISTENING to the shows/media much of the day.
I hope your night gets better.
Look at Eric's psychological impact thread if you need more proof. His thing today is to keep letting BBI know about their "self concept problem" - whatever that means.
Sticking to football talk would probably be a better idea than this bizarre deep dive into the collective psyche of BBI, but I'm not holding my breath.
Look at Eric's psychological impact thread if you need more proof. His thing today is to keep letting BBI know about their "self concept problem" - whatever that means.
Sticking to football talk would probably be a better idea than this bizarre deep dive into the collective psyche of BBI, but I'm not holding my breath.
Got it. Thanks arc. Moving on.
Yes, I’m sure there were some people talking highly of Jones today, it’s just not what I HEARD while LISTENING to the shows/media much of the day.
I hope your night gets better.
Look no big deal. But clearly the commentary went both ways and probably moreso to Jones’ favor. Don’t need to play the underdog or sympathy card just to get a rise. The Giants will get better when they pick better players, play better on the field and their coaches/front office make better decisions.
Look at Eric's psychological impact thread if you need more proof. His thing today is to keep letting BBI know about their "self concept problem" - whatever that means.
Sticking to football talk would probably be a better idea than this bizarre deep dive into the collective psyche of BBI, but I'm not holding my breath.
Hmm...a bit active today. Don’t get so hurt because I mentioned you shouldn’t call out other teams players hoping to play bad. Clearly that and a few...set you off.
Oh well
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Otherwise, thoughts on DJ’s drive?
Should be done within the next 24 hours. But it couldn't have been better.
What I liked was that Jones mentioned it (what he did wrong) in his interview. How many QB's would have? He's learning and this is the kind of stuff that will earn him respect among his teammates.
Just because someone is talking it doesn’t mean they have anything worth hearing. I’ve never heard an intelligent thought come from Chris Carter.
Just because someone is talking it doesn’t mean they have anything worth hearing. I’ve never heard an intelligent thought come from Chris Carter.
So let's connect the dots why I even brought it up.
In Sy's opening, he mentioned that Jones forgot to put the TE in motion. Yet, he still made the play. I obviously don't know the playbook, and found that an interesting wrinkle in the outcome.
So then I heard Carter and Mangini talking today about Jones's performance this morning. Carter is a HoF WR who is well versed in defensive secondary coverage. Whether you chose to accept that or not is completely up to you. And Mangini has been a DC for a SB winning team in New England under BP. So I think his credentials speak for themselves.
But then they started to analyze the TD pass and showed where the defense actually broke down. And how Jones and the Giants were fortune to pull that off. So like Sy's insight on his play, I found the insight by Carter and Mangini interesting as well. So I shared it.
Alas, I misjudged the sensitivity of the BBI mainstream. And forgot to anticipate that they would read the comment as an attack on Jones.
The more things change around here, the more they stay the same...
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In comment 14524947 Big Blue '56 said:
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Otherwise, thoughts on DJ’s drive?
Should be done within the next 24 hours. But it couldn't have been better.
What I liked was that Jones mentioned it (what he did wrong) in his interview. How many QB's would have? He's learning and this is the kind of stuff that will earn him respect among his teammates.
.
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things said by Chris Carter with any degree of seriousness. It’s like spending time pondering what the crazy guy on the street corner was getting at when he said Grover Cleveland was a Martian double-agent.
Just because someone is talking it doesn’t mean they have anything worth hearing. I’ve never heard an intelligent thought come from Chris Carter.
So let's connect the dots why I even brought it up.
In Sy's opening, he mentioned that Jones forgot to put the TE in motion. Yet, he still made the play. I obviously don't know the playbook, and found that an interesting wrinkle in the outcome.
So then I heard Carter and Mangini talking today about Jones's performance this morning. Carter is a HoF WR who is well versed in defensive secondary coverage. Whether you chose to accept that or not is completely up to you. And Mangini has been a DC for a SB winning team in New England under BP. So I think his credentials speak for themselves.
But then they started to analyze the TD pass and showed where the defense actually broke down. And how Jones and the Giants were fortune to pull that off. So like Sy's insight on his play, I found the insight by Carter and Mangini interesting as well. So I shared it.
Alas, I misjudged the sensitivity of the BBI mainstream. And forgot to anticipate that they would read the comment as an attack on Jones.
The more things change around here, the more they stay the same...
Good assessment, particularly of BBI. I have noticed similar tones as of late...
This really shouldn't be such an issue, but the fact is that PFF touts its player ratings and shares them with several outlets. They put a spotlight on those ratings by highlighting them as much as possible.
What should be telling is that those ratings are only used for fan and network usage. Not a single team pays for that service.
This really shouldn't be such an issue, but the fact is that PFF touts its player ratings and shares them with several outlets. They put a spotlight on those ratings by highlighting them as much as possible.
What should be telling is that those ratings are only used for fan and network usage. Not a single team pays for that service.
I think you have that text permanently copied to repost as a PSA and I appreciate that personally
Right now, they are the type of source that gives analytics a bad name, and that's with the full knowledge knowing that down the road they may have the resources to become an authority.
But right now they are an example of a self-promoting outlet that isn't providing any tangible insight, yet passing off information as it they are.
I hate sounding like a broken record, but it seems that almost daily PFF gets a BBI'er to quote or reference some of their "grades"
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things said by Chris Carter with any degree of seriousness. It’s like spending time pondering what the crazy guy on the street corner was getting at when he said Grover Cleveland was a Martian double-agent.
Just because someone is talking it doesn’t mean they have anything worth hearing. I’ve never heard an intelligent thought come from Chris Carter.
So let's connect the dots why I even brought it up.
In Sy's opening, he mentioned that Jones forgot to put the TE in motion. Yet, he still made the play. I obviously don't know the playbook, and found that an interesting wrinkle in the outcome.
So then I heard Carter and Mangini talking today about Jones's performance this morning. Carter is a HoF WR who is well versed in defensive secondary coverage. Whether you chose to accept that or not is completely up to you. And Mangini has been a DC for a SB winning team in New England under BP. So I think his credentials speak for themselves.
But then they started to analyze the TD pass and showed where the defense actually broke down. And how Jones and the Giants were fortune to pull that off. So like Sy's insight on his play, I found the insight by Carter and Mangini interesting as well. So I shared it.
Alas, I misjudged the sensitivity of the BBI mainstream. And forgot to anticipate that they would read the comment as an attack on Jones.
The more things change around here, the more they stay the same...
I guarantee you that if this play were made by a popular QB or QB prospect they wouldn't make a case for why the defense wasn't perfect. The defense is never perfect on plays like that!
Crick n NC Liked this response
So let's connect the dots why I even brought it up.
In Sy's opening, he mentioned that Jones forgot to put the TE in motion. Yet, he still made the play. I obviously don't know the playbook, and found that an interesting wrinkle in the outcome.
So then I heard Carter and Mangini talking today about Jones's performance this morning. Carter is a HoF WR who is well versed in defensive secondary coverage. Whether you chose to accept that or not is completely up to you. And Mangini has been a DC for a SB winning team in New England under BP. So I think his credentials speak for themselves.
But then they started to analyze the TD pass and showed where the defense actually broke down. And how Jones and the Giants were fortune to pull that off. So like Sy's insight on his play, I found the insight by Carter and Mangini interesting as well. So I shared it.
Alas, I misjudged the sensitivity of the BBI mainstream. And forgot to anticipate that they would read the comment as an attack on Jones.
The more things change around here, the more they stay the same...
I guarantee you that if this play were made by a popular QB or QB prospect they wouldn't make a case for why the defense wasn't perfect. The defense is never perfect on plays like that!
Did you read what you wrote in that first sentence? I think I understand the first part of the compound sentence but the second part makes no sense to me. Care to give it a second crack?
Just out of curiosity, and humor me here, if I posted that Carter and Mangini said the throw by Jones was one of the best they’ve seen by a rookie in a long, long time, what would your reaction be?
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In comment 14525120 joeinpa said:
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In comment 14525007 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
Darnold's pass on the 3rd play of the game, are people genuflecting at St. Darnold today?
Doubt it.
Don’t know what your problem with people liking Darnold is. Kids going to be very good
I think the point is that the media has gone out of their way all day to knock down Jones’ performance while not treating other QBs the same. McNallys point is sound...Darnold very nearly threw an INT on the first play of the game but all I’ve heard all day is how good he looked. Jones throws a TD and it was only because the defense missed it lol.
Or my favorite ALL DAY - “let’s calm down, Jones was playing behind the first string offensive line against the Jets second string defense.”
It’s really amazing how everyone hates the NY Giants.
It’s more amazing you actually think that. Jones has gotten nice comments from many in the business on his debut.
Too many of you have a self concept problem as Giant fans...
The media clearly had an agenda with the giants lately and especially this entire offseason. Yes they’ve been bad. Yes they are an easy target lately. This offseason has still been an embarrassment. Some of the shit being said has been deplorable.
Jones looked good. Period.
What insufferable men.
I think he and I are a lot more alike than we are different
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So let's connect the dots why I even brought it up.
In Sy's opening, he mentioned that Jones forgot to put the TE in motion. Yet, he still made the play. I obviously don't know the playbook, and found that an interesting wrinkle in the outcome.
So then I heard Carter and Mangini talking today about Jones's performance this morning. Carter is a HoF WR who is well versed in defensive secondary coverage. Whether you chose to accept that or not is completely up to you. And Mangini has been a DC for a SB winning team in New England under BP. So I think his credentials speak for themselves.
But then they started to analyze the TD pass and showed where the defense actually broke down. And how Jones and the Giants were fortune to pull that off. So like Sy's insight on his play, I found the insight by Carter and Mangini interesting as well. So I shared it.
Alas, I misjudged the sensitivity of the BBI mainstream. And forgot to anticipate that they would read the comment as an attack on Jones.
The more things change around here, the more they stay the same...
I guarantee you that if this play were made by a popular QB or QB prospect they wouldn't make a case for why the defense wasn't perfect. The defense is never perfect on plays like that!
Did you read what you wrote in that first sentence? I think I understand the first part of the compound sentence but the second part makes no sense to me. Care to give it a second crack?
Just out of curiosity, and humor me here, if I posted that Carter and Mangini said the throw by Jones was one of the best they’ve seen by a rookie in a long, long time, what would your reaction be?
Surprise, at least from Carter since he has a vested interest in Jones failing. But this isn't exactly linear. Giving props to Daniel Jones rather than nitpicking his play giving the circumstances makes way more sense to me. So it's not like giving him props is somehow as irrational as criticizing him.
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things said by Chris Carter with any degree of seriousness. It’s like spending time pondering what the crazy guy on the street corner was getting at when he said Grover Cleveland was a Martian double-agent.
Just because someone is talking it doesn’t mean they have anything worth hearing. I’ve never heard an intelligent thought come from Chris Carter.
So let's connect the dots why I even brought it up.
In Sy's opening, he mentioned that Jones forgot to put the TE in motion. Yet, he still made the play. I obviously don't know the playbook, and found that an interesting wrinkle in the outcome.
So then I heard Carter and Mangini talking today about Jones's performance this morning. Carter is a HoF WR who is well versed in defensive secondary coverage. Whether you chose to accept that or not is completely up to you. And Mangini has been a DC for a SB winning team in New England under BP. So I think his credentials speak for themselves.
But then they started to analyze the TD pass and showed where the defense actually broke down. And how Jones and the Giants were fortune to pull that off. So like Sy's insight on his play, I found the insight by Carter and Mangini interesting as well. So I shared it.
Alas, I misjudged the sensitivity of the BBI mainstream. And forgot to anticipate that they would read the comment as an attack on Jones.
The more things change around here, the more they stay the same...
Hmmm, Carter is definitely an expert who’s opinion should be weighed heavily. Who can forget the time that he rattled off his top 6 WR’s in 2011 and left Calvin Johnson off the list and then had this to say: “Calvin Johnson, he's very, very good at Madden and Tecmo Bowl or whatever they're playing now. But on film, when I watch film, and I break down the film, he's not to the point of these guys yet. That doesn't mean he can't play. He just not there yet." If you think Cris Carter is on TV and stays relevant because of his expertise, I have a bridge to sell you. He may not be as stupid as he seems but he certainly knows how to stay relevant given the state of today’s sports media.
Also no offense to Sy but this “interesting wrinkle” isn’t exactly groundbreaking news given that Jones himself said it the first time he spoke to the media after the game adding that he owed Gallman one.
First beer’s on me
First beer’s on me
Ahhh.... it all makes sense now.
Bet you I could beat him in a round of golf tho
Ahhh.... it all makes sense now.
Bet you I could beat him in a round of golf tho
we can't have beer but now we are going to play golf??
Hmmm, Carter is definitely an expert who’s opinion should be weighed heavily. Who can forget the time that he rattled off his top 6 WR’s in 2011 and left Calvin Johnson off the list and then had this to say: “Calvin Johnson, he's very, very good at Madden and Tecmo Bowl or whatever they're playing now. But on film, when I watch film, and I break down the film, he's not to the point of these guys yet. That doesn't mean he can't play. He just not there yet." If you think Cris Carter is on TV and stays relevant because of his expertise, I have a bridge to sell you. He may not be as stupid as he seems but he certainly knows how to stay relevant given the state of today’s sports media.
Also no offense to Sy but this “interesting wrinkle” isn’t exactly groundbreaking news given that Jones himself said it the first time he spoke to the media after the game adding that he owed Gallman one.
Okay, for my future reference, can you please provide a list of which experts are considered too biased? Thanks.
And, again, because I started to get the sense Carter was persona non grata around here, I referenced Mangini who also made the point. So whatever biases EM may have - let me guess, former Jets HC - I haven't unearthed it...
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Ahhh.... it all makes sense now.
No it actually makes clear sense
Yeah you sound like a swell guy
Talk a little football, talk a little weather... ;)
This is it
Talk a little football, talk a little weather... ;)
Sounds like a blast.
Not sure we should let Dep gauge any of the yardage though...
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Hmmm, Carter is definitely an expert who’s opinion should be weighed heavily. Who can forget the time that he rattled off his top 6 WR’s in 2011 and left Calvin Johnson off the list and then had this to say: “Calvin Johnson, he's very, very good at Madden and Tecmo Bowl or whatever they're playing now. But on film, when I watch film, and I break down the film, he's not to the point of these guys yet. That doesn't mean he can't play. He just not there yet." If you think Cris Carter is on TV and stays relevant because of his expertise, I have a bridge to sell you. He may not be as stupid as he seems but he certainly knows how to stay relevant given the state of today’s sports media.
Also no offense to Sy but this “interesting wrinkle” isn’t exactly groundbreaking news given that Jones himself said it the first time he spoke to the media after the game adding that he owed Gallman one.
Okay, for my future reference, can you please provide a list of which experts are considered too biased? Thanks.
And, again, because I started to get the sense Carter was persona non grata around here, I referenced Mangini who also made the point. So whatever biases EM may have - let me guess, former Jets HC - I haven't unearthed it...
Notice not once did I call Carter biased but since you brought it up, Carter called the Giants a racist organization who wouldn't have taken Jones if he was the same prospect except instead of being white he were an African American. That seems like a bias to me unless you think there's merit to that statement?
You keep referencing Mangini but I've seen the clip of him on FS1 and he doesn't make that point. Carter says a number of things, the last of which is about the touchdown pass and how as a coach wouldn't he be all over the safety for picking the ball and Mangini just says "yeah" and then goes into Shurmur commenting on him forgetting to motion the tight end and talks positively about Jones. Are you referencing him saying "yeah". If so, I don't believe that's him making the same point that Carter is... If I missed another segment, please do share the link.
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Otherwise, thoughts on DJ’s drive?
Should be done within the next 24 hours. But it couldn't have been better.
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Also, don’t drink when I play golf.
Yeah you sound like a swell guy
I should apologize. Today was my moms birthday and she passed away in December quickly.
I am a swell guy. I played competitively for a while, I’ll have 1-2 but no more than that
We are good....ok?