about the play. Any competent NFL safety makes an interception? It's a end zone corner route that was well-thrown. It's either a TD or an incompletion, probably more-likely incomplete because the WR has to make a nice catch and keep his feet in.
The Jets had a mix of 1st and 2nd team guys in, so saying that the safety is not an NFL player is wrong too. At least, he's a likely backup. Carter is grasping at straws to find something negative.
And it's time for new frames dude. Your face is way too fat for those.
RE: RE: It was wrong because it used flawed logic Â
And as posted above, wrong facts. There was not one receiver on that side of the field. There were Jets starters on the field. Correcting the factual errors would have helped.
‘
And it makes no sense to say that the safety never picked up on the read, and had he, then he gets a pick. If Jones sees the safety doesn’t pick up route and throws a TD, was that the wrong decision? Maybe if he breaks on the route, Jones goes somewhere else with the ball?
I didn't see Jamaal Adams on the field. Did you?
You are being intentionally obtuse. This is why you get the shit you do.
If Jamaal Adams is on the field and reads it correctly and breaks quicker, explain how you know Jones would have still thrown it there resulting in a pick.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: bw is just giddy because he's hoping that Daniel Jones fails Â
For the recollection impaired, I didn't make this thread and link the video.
You've been banging that drum in a separate thread and continued so here. At least the person who made this thread seems to be supporting Daniel Jones, which is more than can be said about you. You support bw.
Good one.
I wasn't banging any drum. Re-read what I wrote on the other thread. There is nothing nefarious. I was dovetailing what Sy said about Jones missing putting the TE in mostion on a prior play.
In other words, it was a football discussion.
And because I know the BBI Paranoia Crowd would have a breakdown if I mentioned just Carter, I mentioned Mangini to soften that expected blow. Alas, I misjudged the strength of the paranoid.
Let’s hyper analyze every QBs great throws, especially the rookies and see how many have these so called strings attached. Oh wait, no one rarely does that. But it’s the giants and Daniel jones so this is to be expected I guess.
I don't see anything problematic. It was pretty good analysis. Whether you agree or not is up to you. He looked really solid - I didn't think that last pass was great and I was surprised that no one seemed to mention it very well could have gotten picked. If that was the giants D, people would be saying "all (random DB) had to do was turn around". I thought it was a phenomenal debut but thank God there's room for improvement after the first exhibition game, as is expected. But you couldn't ask for a better series. As a therapist, I frequently have to tel people that they have to learn to hold more than one truth at a time. On BBI, I feel the need to tell people they really need to fucking learn to do that. I mean it's a lot more reasonable than baldinger, who people are ready to blow.
Solid analysis even when getting obvious facts wrong about the play including formation, routes run, and personnel?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: bw is just giddy because he's hoping that Daniel Jones fails Â
For the recollection impaired, I didn't make this thread and link the video.
You've been banging that drum in a separate thread and continued so here. At least the person who made this thread seems to be supporting Daniel Jones, which is more than can be said about you. You support bw.
Good one.
I wasn't banging any drum. Re-read what I wrote on the other thread. There is nothing nefarious. I was dovetailing what Sy said about Jones missing putting the TE in mostion on a prior play.
In other words, it was a football discussion.
And because I know the BBI Paranoia Crowd would have a breakdown if I mentioned just Carter, I mentioned Mangini to soften that expected blow. Alas, I misjudged the strength of the paranoid.
When 100% of your comments are why our rookie that went 5 for 5 and got a TD wasn't that impressive after trashing the pick since the draft I don't buy this shit of you just bestowing knowledge on BBI. Bullshit. You haven't said one positive thing about Jones's drive and if you have it has always been with a caveat. You're all about yourself.
But when he basically racially baited the Giants for drafting him and would cream himself if Haskins made that throw there's everything wrong with what he said.
RE: RE: RE: It was wrong because it used flawed logic Â
You are being intentionally obtuse. This is why you get the shit you do.
If Jamaal Adams is on the field and reads it correctly and breaks quicker, explain how you know Jones would have still thrown it there resulting in a pick.
Let me slow down my obtuseness.
I thought it was a great throw when I saw it. But then I heard Mangini - forget Carter - say how Jones basically got away with one. It caught me off guard. Mangini is a highly successful former DC and I thought it was an interesting observation. I was adding context - this came up yesterday - how things can be missed. Like when Sy said Jones missed motioning the TE.
When 100% of your comments are why our rookie that went 5 for 5 and got a TD wasn't that impressive after trashing the pick since the draft I don't buy this shit of you just bestowing knowledge on BBI. Bullshit. You haven't said one positive thing about Jones's drive and if you have it has always been with a caveat. You're all about yourself.
Uh, go read the comments thread, started by Eirc, when the game was being played.
You are being intentionally obtuse. This is why you get the shit you do.
If Jamaal Adams is on the field and reads it correctly and breaks quicker, explain how you know Jones would have still thrown it there resulting in a pick.
Let me slow down my obtuseness.
I thought it was a great throw when I saw it. But then I heard Mangini - forget Carter - say how Jones basically got away with one. It caught me off guard. Mangini is a highly successful former DC and I thought it was an interesting observation. I was adding context - this came up yesterday - how things can be missed. Like when Sy said Jones missed motioning the TE.
But what that analysis missed - by Carter and Mangini - is cause and effect. Why did he “get away with it” when he threw to a guy who was open and put the ball where the safety couldn’t get it? Is it wrong to take advantage of a mis-read or mis-play by a defender?
One of the QBs jobs is to read the defense and react to it. Why does their analysis exclude the possibility that that is exactly what happened? Why is ignoring some of the relevant factors a good analysis?
As a counterpoint, Greg Cossel talked about that play also on the Ross Tucker podcast and thought it was a good play. Do you think he just missed the nuances that Mangin and Carter picked up on?
RE: RE: bw is just giddy because he's hoping that Daniel Jones fails Â
because he's a bigger fan of his own opinion than the Giants.
Gee, you got me. I’ll self-ban...
I see the nutjobs are out again in full force that don't want to hear anything bad about their hero. My God. Carter said he did well!!!!! A freaking preseaosn game and Carter said he did well but yeah let's rip into CC.
There is an incredible homeristic sensitivity on here in which most posters on here are positive. And most of these posters never say anything bad about their beloved team. Thus they turn on any poster who is negative and whine that "they are always negative." Instead of just acknowledging that there are posters who offer a counter=-- they try to attack and they whine about the few tht are negative. Juts look here at Carter and how worked up they are about the pass. SO what? It's a preseason game and CC said he looked good!!!!!!!!!!
The majority of posters on here are positive. You'd think some of the usual suspects who whine about you would grow up and just stop focusing on one poster who doesn't share their pov and accept it's okay to disagree.
He did stare down the receiver or at least that side of the field. IIRC There was a man open on the other side running an out with no coverage underneath.
He made a good throw.
The defender did not play it well, but I think it is a little unfair to say that it SHOULD have been intercepted.
At the end of the video, CC says that he could see why he was a first-round pick.
He was throwing to a second-team receiver vs second-team defenders.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It was wrong because it used flawed logic Â
But what that analysis missed - by Carter and Mangini - is cause and effect. Why did he “get away with it” when he threw to a guy who was open and put the ball where the safety couldn’t get it? Is it wrong to take advantage of a mis-read or mis-play by a defender?
One of the QBs jobs is to read the defense and react to it. Why does their analysis exclude the possibility that that is exactly what happened? Why is ignoring some of the relevant factors a good analysis?
As a counterpoint, Greg Cossel talked about that play also on the Ross Tucker podcast and thought it was a good play. Do you think he just missed the nuances that Mangin and Carter picked up on?
I did heard the GC link yesterday. I always enjoy his opinions. Do I think he's got the same defensive understanding as Mangini? Who has actually coached NFL schemes and players? I don't know...maybe. He's a very bright guy. So it could just be a difference of interpretation.
On the read, I think Mangini and Carter were saying NFL starting safeties wouldn't bite on that. So the success rate - my words - would be considerably less.
I hated the Jones pick when it was made, and I am still not sold. But my opinion of him is going to be based on what I see with my own two eyes as well as thoughtful analysis by those who know the game better than I do.
Jones played well and that TD throw was a good play by him. Carter and Mangini guessing at what might have happened if a different person were playing and did something differently, without changing what anyone else did, is it no way relevant or persuasive to me because it isn’t logical.
Jones missed putting the TE in motion on one play. That needs to be cleaned up. It was a mistake. The guy wasn’t perfect, but he was damn good.
At the end of the video, CC says that he could see why he was a first-round pick.
Good point. Carter said that now that Jones in actually in the league he will only evaluate what he sees and not go back to his pre-draft analysis of Jones's play at Duke.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It was wrong because it used flawed logic Â
But what that analysis missed - by Carter and Mangini - is cause and effect. Why did he “get away with it” when he threw to a guy who was open and put the ball where the safety couldn’t get it? Is it wrong to take advantage of a mis-read or mis-play by a defender?
One of the QBs jobs is to read the defense and react to it. Why does their analysis exclude the possibility that that is exactly what happened? Why is ignoring some of the relevant factors a good analysis?
As a counterpoint, Greg Cossel talked about that play also on the Ross Tucker podcast and thought it was a good play. Do you think he just missed the nuances that Mangin and Carter picked up on?
I did heard the GC link yesterday. I always enjoy his opinions. Do I think he's got the same defensive understanding as Mangini? Who has actually coached NFL schemes and players? I don't know...maybe. He's a very bright guy. So it could just be a difference of interpretation.
On the read, I think Mangini and Carter were saying NFL starting safeties wouldn't bite on that. So the success rate - my words - would be considerably less.
And you keep skipping this part of the analysis in your responses...why do you assume he would have made the same throw if the safety didn’t bite? The conclusion that he “got away with one” necessarily assumes he would have. He said he threw it because of how the safety played it. Should everyone just assume he was lying?
RE: RE: RE: bw is just giddy because he's hoping that Daniel Jones fails Â
because he's a bigger fan of his own opinion than the Giants.
Gee, you got me. I’ll self-ban...
I see the nutjobs are out again in full force that don't want to hear anything bad about their hero. My God. Carter said he did well!!!!! A freaking preseaosn game and Carter said he did well but yeah let's rip into CC.
There is an incredible homeristic sensitivity on here in which most posters on here are positive. And most of these posters never say anything bad about their beloved team. Thus they turn on any poster who is negative and whine that "they are always negative." Instead of just acknowledging that there are posters who offer a counter=-- they try to attack and they whine about the few tht are negative. Juts look here at Carter and how worked up they are about the pass. SO what? It's a preseason game and CC said he looked good!!!!!!!!!!
The majority of posters on here are positive. You'd think some of the usual suspects who whine about you would grow up and just stop focusing on one poster who doesn't share their pov and accept it's okay to disagree.
When all you post is negative shit about a great performance on a Giants fan site you'll get called out. If you're more interested in finding ways that your rookie QB who had one of the more impressive debuts of a Giant in recent memory screwed than look at the positives of the drive you're going to get called out. Especially if your stance has been the pick was bad. It sounds like you're looking for any reason that he sucks to validate your opinion and that's more important than the player being. And stop with the persecution complex already. It's unbecoming. And Giants fans are positive that must be bad we should all be miserable like you. But wait you're a realist and a badass that just tells it like it is.
Advantage of mistakes is a huge part in football. Starting defenders make mistakes all the time. Even mistakes that we say "Shouldn't happen". It's a strange argument.
If analysts want to say something along the lines of, "Jones caught the defense out of position and took advantage" while also explaining that defenses aren't likely to make that mistake outside of preseason I don't think there would be much issue. Now I don't know what Mangini had to say, I only saw what Carter had to say.
But that analysis was fine. Jones was staring down receivers and lets face it he was looking at vanilla defenses. They were second teamers. All that is true. Whether or not Jones would've delivered that ball had the Safety's head been turned we will never know.
But you can already see Carter setting the foundation for backtracking on Jones being a bad pick.
Nothing to see here.
Seems Jones will replace Eli in more ways than one Â
He's going to be replace Eli as the media's favorite punching bag too it would appear. It's such blatant bias when you start saying you don't count a specific throw because 'it should have been picked off'. They would never say that about any throw made by other QBs. How many throws a game do QBs make that 'should have been picked off'? Yet, they aren't, and the completion all counts the same.
saying "Any NFL-quality safety would have intercepted that pass" is not good analysis. It sounds like something a drunk at a bar says when watching a game.
Had a QB guru on he explained out of the 5 passes 3 were first reads and the other two were reads off a high low concept. First one was the cross on the Latimer catch for 30 yards and the other was the touchdown throw. A good listen if you time.
to assume the world is against the Giants, but ask yourself - what other QB is being hyper-analyzed on if a TD pass should have been picked off?
Are they dissecting if Darnold's dropped pass by Peppers should have been picked? Are the questioning if Mayfield's impressive opening drive should have some disclaimers? Are they putting Haskins TD pass under the microscope?
Why are they doing it for Jones, and why are they commenting that a pass the defender never looked back for should have been picked?
That's a pass Aaron Rodgers makes a living off of. Are those assumptions made about his TD's, or is that grit and the heart of a champion?
to assume the world is against the Giants, but ask yourself - what other QB is being hyper-analyzed on if a TD pass should have been picked off?
Are they dissecting if Darnold's dropped pass by Peppers should have been picked? Are the questioning if Mayfield's impressive opening drive should have some disclaimers? Are they putting Haskins TD pass under the microscope?
Why are they doing it for Jones, and why are they commenting that a pass the defender never looked back for should have been picked?
That's a pass Aaron Rodgers makes a living off of. Are those assumptions made about his TD's, or is that grit and the heart of a champion?
EXACTLY! You can make an argument that any TD pass was in part a poor play by the defense. No other QB has this type of scrutiny. But he's Daniel Jones and these assholes have an agenda.
Mahomes or Rodgers make that pass and it's a proof of their Â
just won't be compared to Eli in the way that he looks, talks and acts but also how the media perceives his performance and value!
Note on analysts claiming Jones was put in a position to have success. The Giants have had other QBs for several years now that they have drafted generally high. My guess is that they have put them in the same position to succeed. None of them looked as good as Jones did on Thursday!
It's good be cautiously optimistic but I feel some of the analysts are going out of their way.
Of course it's business in the end. 2 pages worth of engagement going on here over this.
That he locked on to Fowler and Fowler was the only receiver on that side of the field which is just flat wrong.
There was a Giants receiver open at the goal line on the same side of the field. If Carter can tell who Jones was looking at he must have super human abilities
just won't be compared to Eli in the way that he looks, talks and acts but also how the media perceives his performance and value!
Note on analysts claiming Jones was put in a position to have success. The Giants have had other QBs for several years now that they have drafted generally high. My guess is that they have put them in the same position to succeed. None of them looked as good as Jones did on Thursday!
It's good be cautiously optimistic but I feel some of the analysts are going out of their way.
Of course it's business in the end. 2 pages worth of engagement going on here over this.
He wasn’t looking at Fowler he was looking to that side of the field. As explained on the locked on podcast he had a hi low concept read. He made the read and threw to the hi receiver which resulted in a TD.
It was a ridiculous take that he said the Giants were racist to take Jones. But this breakdown is perfectly acceptable. If you watch the play again he had a TE WIDER OPEN over the middle. It may not have been a TD but it would have been close. Jones was immediately staring to where he was throwing it the whole time. It was a risky throw. It worked out but just because it worked out doesn't mean everybody should verbally blow the throw.
With that said, I want Jones taking risks. He needs to figure the game out. He needs to know what his limitations are and that will never happen playing it safe all the time. He took a risk and it paid off. Next time maybe it doesn't but that is okay.
Most of the hyper-analysis is coming from you all Â
. The fact is Jones recognized he would have the play and went with it.
I love the throw, but I don't know if him attempting it was the product of any sort of recognition. I just don't know. We can't say that he wouldn't have thrown it if he spotted something with the safety.
We've seen Eli make throws for years to a receiver who ran a wrong route... the throw was still made. Same could have happened with Jones' throw had the safety acted differently.
RE: RE: RE: RE: bw is just giddy because he's hoping that Daniel Jones fails Â
When all you post is negative shit about a great performance on a Giants fan site you'll get called out. If you're more interested in finding ways that your rookie QB who had one of the more impressive debuts of a Giant in recent memory screwed than look at the positives of the drive you're going to get called out. Especially if your stance has been the pick was bad. It sounds like you're looking for any reason that he sucks to validate your opinion and that's more important than the player being. And stop with the persecution complex already. It's unbecoming. And Giants fans are positive that must be bad we should all be miserable like you. But wait you're a realist and a badass that just tells it like it is.
Laughable that you use words like "called out." I'll just use words for posters like you as "cheerleading."
WHen you say "you" again you are implying I said something was bad form Jones. It's just that in a preseason game if an analyst nit-pciks I don't go off-the-rail whining like a bitch after one freaking presason game. Typical nutjob post from posters like you to get all worked up over it. I said Jones looked good several times on here. I said Carter said Jones looked good. But keep living in your cheerleading fantasy world.
I said Joens looked good and you twist this into valdiiating my opinion he is bad? You're a complete quack.
And ohhh yeah -- I'm miserable because I think the GMEn are rebuilding this year and hope Jones will be good for the future so in 2020 we can be awesome. But yeah keep playing that "misery card" - you're a nut. ANyone who complains that his team is most likely going to not be good must be miserable, right? Don;t cry to mom this year if the giants don;t make the playoffs, okay?
Next year is the big year so maybe mom can give you some needed hugs this year to get you through the season.
but he put the ball in a good spot. Enough with the what ifs?! He made a good play, so let's leave it at that. He had an open receiver on the left side for a TD as well, but chose to stick with his first read.
We should all just be looking at how Jones looked operating and moving and throwing and less at the actual results. It’s preseason. It’s practice. Look at these players in a vacuum. Jones will likely get worse before he gets better. He will have his setbacks. Peaks and valleys and it likely won’t be linear. We should all be looking for jones to learn how to win one step at a time. And when he wins we shouldn’t hyper analyze every fucking game and drive and moment as if it’s last. Good luck with that though. Just learn to win and then win a lot.
first off he talked about how Daniel Jones did a good job and made good throws.
He does point out that the Giants left their first team o-line in with Jones against the Jets backup defenders. He says this was smart of the Giants to help Jones have success.
He then talks about the touchdown pass. He points out that Jones locked in on his target from the snap until the throw. Carter says a starting NFL safety is going to pick up on that which the Jets safety didn't.
He then points out that the Jets safety put himself in bad position to make a play on the TD pass. He might be right, he might be wrong, but it's possible a NFL caliber starting safety would have made a play on the ball. The Jets safety did get turned around and had his back to the play.
Not defending Carter, but I didn't get the arrogant douche impression from his comments.
Curious about this first team vs second team narrative. Don’t remember seeing Barkley, Engram or Shepherd on the field during that drive.
Have they all been demoted to second team
Just when you think sports reporting, and fan narratives can’t get any sillier, they do. Lol
gave a very fair assessment of what he saw. Thursday night, my son said the exact same thing about the TD throw. Even if you disagree, why in the world would you call him a douche. His overall comments on the night for DJ were appropriately critical and did not diminish what DJ accomplished.
RE: RE: I don't know that Chris Carter is entirely wrong Â
first off he talked about how Daniel Jones did a good job and made good throws.
He does point out that the Giants left their first team o-line in with Jones against the Jets backup defenders. He says this was smart of the Giants to help Jones have success.
He then talks about the touchdown pass. He points out that Jones locked in on his target from the snap until the throw. Carter says a starting NFL safety is going to pick up on that which the Jets safety didn't.
He then points out that the Jets safety put himself in bad position to make a play on the TD pass. He might be right, he might be wrong, but it's possible a NFL caliber starting safety would have made a play on the ball. The Jets safety did get turned around and had his back to the play.
Not defending Carter, but I didn't get the arrogant douche impression from his comments.
Curious about this first team vs second team narrative. Don’t remember seeing Barkley, Engram or Shepherd on the field during that drive.
Have they all been demoted to second team
Just when you think sports reporting, and fan narratives can’t get any sillier, they do. Lol
They kept the 1st team offensive line in there which was a smart on Schumer's part
This is what I don't get...it was a read to the short side of the Â
field that he made correctly. Which he should since it was a basic cover 2. Was the safety late to react? Yes, but DJ put that ball pretty much right where it needed to be based on the safeties positioning.
I watched his take on youtube...and peolple are handwring because Â
they don't like what he said on draft day about the Giants being racist (which was a ridiculous take). Everything he said was pretty measured.
DJ impressed me personally on that deep out to the short sideline, the arm strength looked a tick above average. I'm done worrying about his arm strength to the sidelines unless he gets a shoulder injury. The ball placement was tremendous as well, better than advertised. It's good to see a slant route thrown exactly where it needs to be after years of Eli. This is where the game is evolving. YAC YAC YAC!
The Jets had a mix of 1st and 2nd team guys in, so saying that the safety is not an NFL player is wrong too. At least, he's a likely backup. Carter is grasping at straws to find something negative.
And it's time for new frames dude. Your face is way too fat for those.
Quote:
And as posted above, wrong facts. There was not one receiver on that side of the field. There were Jets starters on the field. Correcting the factual errors would have helped.
‘
And it makes no sense to say that the safety never picked up on the read, and had he, then he gets a pick. If Jones sees the safety doesn’t pick up route and throws a TD, was that the wrong decision? Maybe if he breaks on the route, Jones goes somewhere else with the ball?
I didn't see Jamaal Adams on the field. Did you?
You are being intentionally obtuse. This is why you get the shit you do.
If Jamaal Adams is on the field and reads it correctly and breaks quicker, explain how you know Jones would have still thrown it there resulting in a pick.
For the recollection impaired, I didn't make this thread and link the video.
You've been banging that drum in a separate thread and continued so here. At least the person who made this thread seems to be supporting Daniel Jones, which is more than can be said about you. You support bw.
Good one.
I wasn't banging any drum. Re-read what I wrote on the other thread. There is nothing nefarious. I was dovetailing what Sy said about Jones missing putting the TE in mostion on a prior play.
In other words, it was a football discussion.
And because I know the BBI Paranoia Crowd would have a breakdown if I mentioned just Carter, I mentioned Mangini to soften that expected blow. Alas, I misjudged the strength of the paranoid.
Let’s hyper analyze every QBs great throws, especially the rookies and see how many have these so called strings attached. Oh wait, no one rarely does that. But it’s the giants and Daniel jones so this is to be expected I guess.
I don't see anything problematic. It was pretty good analysis. Whether you agree or not is up to you. He looked really solid - I didn't think that last pass was great and I was surprised that no one seemed to mention it very well could have gotten picked. If that was the giants D, people would be saying "all (random DB) had to do was turn around". I thought it was a phenomenal debut but thank God there's room for improvement after the first exhibition game, as is expected. But you couldn't ask for a better series. As a therapist, I frequently have to tel people that they have to learn to hold more than one truth at a time. On BBI, I feel the need to tell people they really need to fucking learn to do that. I mean it's a lot more reasonable than baldinger, who people are ready to blow.
Solid analysis even when getting obvious facts wrong about the play including formation, routes run, and personnel?
Quote:
For the recollection impaired, I didn't make this thread and link the video.
You've been banging that drum in a separate thread and continued so here. At least the person who made this thread seems to be supporting Daniel Jones, which is more than can be said about you. You support bw.
Good one.
I wasn't banging any drum. Re-read what I wrote on the other thread. There is nothing nefarious. I was dovetailing what Sy said about Jones missing putting the TE in mostion on a prior play.
In other words, it was a football discussion.
And because I know the BBI Paranoia Crowd would have a breakdown if I mentioned just Carter, I mentioned Mangini to soften that expected blow. Alas, I misjudged the strength of the paranoid.
When 100% of your comments are why our rookie that went 5 for 5 and got a TD wasn't that impressive after trashing the pick since the draft I don't buy this shit of you just bestowing knowledge on BBI. Bullshit. You haven't said one positive thing about Jones's drive and if you have it has always been with a caveat. You're all about yourself.
I didn't see Jamaal Adams on the field. Did you?
You are being intentionally obtuse. This is why you get the shit you do.
If Jamaal Adams is on the field and reads it correctly and breaks quicker, explain how you know Jones would have still thrown it there resulting in a pick.
Let me slow down my obtuseness.
I thought it was a great throw when I saw it. But then I heard Mangini - forget Carter - say how Jones basically got away with one. It caught me off guard. Mangini is a highly successful former DC and I thought it was an interesting observation. I was adding context - this came up yesterday - how things can be missed. Like when Sy said Jones missed motioning the TE.
This should really put this whole thing to bed 🛌
When 100% of your comments are why our rookie that went 5 for 5 and got a TD wasn't that impressive after trashing the pick since the draft I don't buy this shit of you just bestowing knowledge on BBI. Bullshit. You haven't said one positive thing about Jones's drive and if you have it has always been with a caveat. You're all about yourself.
Uh, go read the comments thread, started by Eirc, when the game was being played.
I'll accept your apology afterwards.
Seems like this is all anyone needs
Quote:
I didn't see Jamaal Adams on the field. Did you?
You are being intentionally obtuse. This is why you get the shit you do.
If Jamaal Adams is on the field and reads it correctly and breaks quicker, explain how you know Jones would have still thrown it there resulting in a pick.
Let me slow down my obtuseness.
I thought it was a great throw when I saw it. But then I heard Mangini - forget Carter - say how Jones basically got away with one. It caught me off guard. Mangini is a highly successful former DC and I thought it was an interesting observation. I was adding context - this came up yesterday - how things can be missed. Like when Sy said Jones missed motioning the TE.
But what that analysis missed - by Carter and Mangini - is cause and effect. Why did he “get away with it” when he threw to a guy who was open and put the ball where the safety couldn’t get it? Is it wrong to take advantage of a mis-read or mis-play by a defender?
One of the QBs jobs is to read the defense and react to it. Why does their analysis exclude the possibility that that is exactly what happened? Why is ignoring some of the relevant factors a good analysis?
As a counterpoint, Greg Cossel talked about that play also on the Ross Tucker podcast and thought it was a good play. Do you think he just missed the nuances that Mangin and Carter picked up on?
Quote:
because he's a bigger fan of his own opinion than the Giants.
Gee, you got me. I’ll self-ban...
I see the nutjobs are out again in full force that don't want to hear anything bad about their hero. My God. Carter said he did well!!!!! A freaking preseaosn game and Carter said he did well but yeah let's rip into CC.
There is an incredible homeristic sensitivity on here in which most posters on here are positive. And most of these posters never say anything bad about their beloved team. Thus they turn on any poster who is negative and whine that "they are always negative." Instead of just acknowledging that there are posters who offer a counter=-- they try to attack and they whine about the few tht are negative. Juts look here at Carter and how worked up they are about the pass. SO what? It's a preseason game and CC said he looked good!!!!!!!!!!
The majority of posters on here are positive. You'd think some of the usual suspects who whine about you would grow up and just stop focusing on one poster who doesn't share their pov and accept it's okay to disagree.
He did stare down the receiver or at least that side of the field. IIRC There was a man open on the other side running an out with no coverage underneath.
He made a good throw.
The defender did not play it well, but I think it is a little unfair to say that it SHOULD have been intercepted.
At the end of the video, CC says that he could see why he was a first-round pick.
He was throwing to a second-team receiver vs second-team defenders.
But what that analysis missed - by Carter and Mangini - is cause and effect. Why did he “get away with it” when he threw to a guy who was open and put the ball where the safety couldn’t get it? Is it wrong to take advantage of a mis-read or mis-play by a defender?
One of the QBs jobs is to read the defense and react to it. Why does their analysis exclude the possibility that that is exactly what happened? Why is ignoring some of the relevant factors a good analysis?
As a counterpoint, Greg Cossel talked about that play also on the Ross Tucker podcast and thought it was a good play. Do you think he just missed the nuances that Mangin and Carter picked up on?
I did heard the GC link yesterday. I always enjoy his opinions. Do I think he's got the same defensive understanding as Mangini? Who has actually coached NFL schemes and players? I don't know...maybe. He's a very bright guy. So it could just be a difference of interpretation.
On the read, I think Mangini and Carter were saying NFL starting safeties wouldn't bite on that. So the success rate - my words - would be considerably less.
Jones played well and that TD throw was a good play by him. Carter and Mangini guessing at what might have happened if a different person were playing and did something differently, without changing what anyone else did, is it no way relevant or persuasive to me because it isn’t logical.
Jones missed putting the TE in motion on one play. That needs to be cleaned up. It was a mistake. The guy wasn’t perfect, but he was damn good.
At the end of the video, CC says that he could see why he was a first-round pick.
Good point. Carter said that now that Jones in actually in the league he will only evaluate what he sees and not go back to his pre-draft analysis of Jones's play at Duke.
Quote:
But what that analysis missed - by Carter and Mangini - is cause and effect. Why did he “get away with it” when he threw to a guy who was open and put the ball where the safety couldn’t get it? Is it wrong to take advantage of a mis-read or mis-play by a defender?
One of the QBs jobs is to read the defense and react to it. Why does their analysis exclude the possibility that that is exactly what happened? Why is ignoring some of the relevant factors a good analysis?
As a counterpoint, Greg Cossel talked about that play also on the Ross Tucker podcast and thought it was a good play. Do you think he just missed the nuances that Mangin and Carter picked up on?
I did heard the GC link yesterday. I always enjoy his opinions. Do I think he's got the same defensive understanding as Mangini? Who has actually coached NFL schemes and players? I don't know...maybe. He's a very bright guy. So it could just be a difference of interpretation.
On the read, I think Mangini and Carter were saying NFL starting safeties wouldn't bite on that. So the success rate - my words - would be considerably less.
And you keep skipping this part of the analysis in your responses...why do you assume he would have made the same throw if the safety didn’t bite? The conclusion that he “got away with one” necessarily assumes he would have. He said he threw it because of how the safety played it. Should everyone just assume he was lying?
Quote:
In comment 14525811 BestFeature said:
Quote:
because he's a bigger fan of his own opinion than the Giants.
Gee, you got me. I’ll self-ban...
I see the nutjobs are out again in full force that don't want to hear anything bad about their hero. My God. Carter said he did well!!!!! A freaking preseaosn game and Carter said he did well but yeah let's rip into CC.
There is an incredible homeristic sensitivity on here in which most posters on here are positive. And most of these posters never say anything bad about their beloved team. Thus they turn on any poster who is negative and whine that "they are always negative." Instead of just acknowledging that there are posters who offer a counter=-- they try to attack and they whine about the few tht are negative. Juts look here at Carter and how worked up they are about the pass. SO what? It's a preseason game and CC said he looked good!!!!!!!!!!
The majority of posters on here are positive. You'd think some of the usual suspects who whine about you would grow up and just stop focusing on one poster who doesn't share their pov and accept it's okay to disagree.
When all you post is negative shit about a great performance on a Giants fan site you'll get called out. If you're more interested in finding ways that your rookie QB who had one of the more impressive debuts of a Giant in recent memory screwed than look at the positives of the drive you're going to get called out. Especially if your stance has been the pick was bad. It sounds like you're looking for any reason that he sucks to validate your opinion and that's more important than the player being. And stop with the persecution complex already. It's unbecoming. And Giants fans are positive that must be bad we should all be miserable like you. But wait you're a realist and a badass that just tells it like it is.
If analysts want to say something along the lines of, "Jones caught the defense out of position and took advantage" while also explaining that defenses aren't likely to make that mistake outside of preseason I don't think there would be much issue. Now I don't know what Mangini had to say, I only saw what Carter had to say.
But you can already see Carter setting the foundation for backtracking on Jones being a bad pick.
Nothing to see here.
Are they dissecting if Darnold's dropped pass by Peppers should have been picked? Are the questioning if Mayfield's impressive opening drive should have some disclaimers? Are they putting Haskins TD pass under the microscope?
Why are they doing it for Jones, and why are they commenting that a pass the defender never looked back for should have been picked?
That's a pass Aaron Rodgers makes a living off of. Are those assumptions made about his TD's, or is that grit and the heart of a champion?
Are they dissecting if Darnold's dropped pass by Peppers should have been picked? Are the questioning if Mayfield's impressive opening drive should have some disclaimers? Are they putting Haskins TD pass under the microscope?
Why are they doing it for Jones, and why are they commenting that a pass the defender never looked back for should have been picked?
That's a pass Aaron Rodgers makes a living off of. Are those assumptions made about his TD's, or is that grit and the heart of a champion?
EXACTLY! You can make an argument that any TD pass was in part a poor play by the defense. No other QB has this type of scrutiny. But he's Daniel Jones and these assholes have an agenda.
We're talking about a throw placed perfectly between a defender and the receiver.
no wonder some Giants fans still think Asante Samuel gift-wrapped a SB win....
Note on analysts claiming Jones was put in a position to have success. The Giants have had other QBs for several years now that they have drafted generally high. My guess is that they have put them in the same position to succeed. None of them looked as good as Jones did on Thursday!
It's good be cautiously optimistic but I feel some of the analysts are going out of their way.
Of course it's business in the end. 2 pages worth of engagement going on here over this.
There was a Giants receiver open at the goal line on the same side of the field. If Carter can tell who Jones was looking at he must have super human abilities
Note on analysts claiming Jones was put in a position to have success. The Giants have had other QBs for several years now that they have drafted generally high. My guess is that they have put them in the same position to succeed. None of them looked as good as Jones did on Thursday!
It's good be cautiously optimistic but I feel some of the analysts are going out of their way.
Of course it's business in the end. 2 pages worth of engagement going on here over this.
He wasn’t looking at Fowler he was looking to that side of the field. As explained on the locked on podcast he had a hi low concept read. He made the read and threw to the hi receiver which resulted in a TD.
With that said, I want Jones taking risks. He needs to figure the game out. He needs to know what his limitations are and that will never happen playing it safe all the time. He took a risk and it paid off. Next time maybe it doesn't but that is okay.
Go with those to make yourselves feel better...
I love the throw, but I don't know if him attempting it was the product of any sort of recognition. I just don't know. We can't say that he wouldn't have thrown it if he spotted something with the safety.
We've seen Eli make throws for years to a receiver who ran a wrong route... the throw was still made. Same could have happened with Jones' throw had the safety acted differently.
Quote:
When all you post is negative shit about a great performance on a Giants fan site you'll get called out. If you're more interested in finding ways that your rookie QB who had one of the more impressive debuts of a Giant in recent memory screwed than look at the positives of the drive you're going to get called out. Especially if your stance has been the pick was bad. It sounds like you're looking for any reason that he sucks to validate your opinion and that's more important than the player being. And stop with the persecution complex already. It's unbecoming. And Giants fans are positive that must be bad we should all be miserable like you. But wait you're a realist and a badass that just tells it like it is.
Laughable that you use words like "called out." I'll just use words for posters like you as "cheerleading."
WHen you say "you" again you are implying I said something was bad form Jones. It's just that in a preseason game if an analyst nit-pciks I don't go off-the-rail whining like a bitch after one freaking presason game. Typical nutjob post from posters like you to get all worked up over it. I said Jones looked good several times on here. I said Carter said Jones looked good. But keep living in your cheerleading fantasy world.
I said Joens looked good and you twist this into valdiiating my opinion he is bad? You're a complete quack.
And ohhh yeah -- I'm miserable because I think the GMEn are rebuilding this year and hope Jones will be good for the future so in 2020 we can be awesome. But yeah keep playing that "misery card" - you're a nut. ANyone who complains that his team is most likely going to not be good must be miserable, right? Don;t cry to mom this year if the giants don;t make the playoffs, okay?
Next year is the big year so maybe mom can give you some needed hugs this year to get you through the season.
Chris Carter ever take that into consideration?
Carter has always been a Giant hater, and he’s mad DJ went before DH
Agree with everything you said.
Carter will go to his grave being a Giants hater, like Merlin Olson was.
He does point out that the Giants left their first team o-line in with Jones against the Jets backup defenders. He says this was smart of the Giants to help Jones have success.
He then talks about the touchdown pass. He points out that Jones locked in on his target from the snap until the throw. Carter says a starting NFL safety is going to pick up on that which the Jets safety didn't.
He then points out that the Jets safety put himself in bad position to make a play on the TD pass. He might be right, he might be wrong, but it's possible a NFL caliber starting safety would have made a play on the ball. The Jets safety did get turned around and had his back to the play.
Not defending Carter, but I didn't get the arrogant douche impression from his comments.
Curious about this first team vs second team narrative. Don’t remember seeing Barkley, Engram or Shepherd on the field during that drive.
Have they all been demoted to second team
Just when you think sports reporting, and fan narratives can’t get any sillier, they do. Lol
Quote:
first off he talked about how Daniel Jones did a good job and made good throws.
He does point out that the Giants left their first team o-line in with Jones against the Jets backup defenders. He says this was smart of the Giants to help Jones have success.
He then talks about the touchdown pass. He points out that Jones locked in on his target from the snap until the throw. Carter says a starting NFL safety is going to pick up on that which the Jets safety didn't.
He then points out that the Jets safety put himself in bad position to make a play on the TD pass. He might be right, he might be wrong, but it's possible a NFL caliber starting safety would have made a play on the ball. The Jets safety did get turned around and had his back to the play.
Not defending Carter, but I didn't get the arrogant douche impression from his comments.
Curious about this first team vs second team narrative. Don’t remember seeing Barkley, Engram or Shepherd on the field during that drive.
Have they all been demoted to second team
Just when you think sports reporting, and fan narratives can’t get any sillier, they do. Lol
They kept the 1st team offensive line in there which was a smart on Schumer's part
DJ impressed me personally on that deep out to the short sideline, the arm strength looked a tick above average. I'm done worrying about his arm strength to the sidelines unless he gets a shoulder injury. The ball placement was tremendous as well, better than advertised. It's good to see a slant route thrown exactly where it needs to be after years of Eli. This is where the game is evolving. YAC YAC YAC!