Chris Carter on Daniel Jones

I watched the tape and then read the thread and Im kind of surprised.

My take was that the endless repetitive section about Carter wiping the slate clean after the draft and when a high draft pick enters the NFL ( "because NFL coaches can put some people into situations where they succeed") was the most interesting part of the thread

To me, its Carter starting the pivot re-positioning of his takes on DG, Barkley and Jones.

'For the draft I give hot takes. When it comes to the NFL games then im a pure tell it like it is analyst'

Very entertaining. Reminded me of a Presidential candidate who went to the wings of their party to win primaries and now desperately repositioning as a "centrist"

Not sure whose scrambling dance is funniest to watch ...certain media guys or certain posters.

All of them assume we are stupid and forget what they said ( and said many times).

In comment 14525780 Giantsfan79 said:

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first off he talked about how Daniel Jones did a good job and made good throws. He does point out that the Giants left their first team o-line in with Jones against the Jets backup defenders. He says this was smart of the Giants to help Jones have success.

Quinnen Williams is likely already the Jets best defensive lineman who was in. They had 4 other first team defenders in at the time.

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He then talks about the touchdown pass. He points out that Jones locked in on his target from the snap until the throw. Carter says a starting NFL safety is going to pick up on that which the Jets safety didn't.

Predefined reads as a huge part of successful NFL offenses today. McVay runs a ton of them, Shurmur too (and road them to a monster season from Case Keenum two years ago). To execute that play well he has to be decisive, quick and put the ball in the perfect spot with enough juice so the DB doesn't have much time to react. They're playing cover 2 and the DB gets caught watching the flat which is when Jones releases it. If the ball hangs in the air the DB would've picked it but it was a textbook throw.

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He then points out that the Jets safety put himself in bad position to make a play on the TD pass. He might be right, he might be wrong, but it's possible a NFL caliber starting safety would have made a play on the ball. The Jets safety did get turned around and had his back to the play.

Yes he got caught peaking at the flat as mentioned above but he's in the right position. They're playing Cover 2 and the corner-flat combo is a popular play call to attack it.

DJ was a touch prospect to evaluate because of the talent level at Duke. Just like Eli was tough to evaluate when DG came in because the offensive line was so bad. I think DG thought he wasn't going to have to worry about the QB position for a while when he accepted the job.

In comment 14526085 River Mike said:

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gave a very fair assessment of what he saw. Thursday night, my son said the exact same thing about the TD throw. Even if you disagree, why in the world would you call him a douche. His overall comments on the night for DJ were appropriately critical and did not diminish what DJ accomplished.

I'm going to assume that you didn't hear his comments calling the Giants a racist organization who wouldn't have taken Jones if he was African American because that's why everyone is calling him a douche...

inbreaking route. Trying to make a play probably to get noticed. Or it was a good route, hard to tell from the camera angle.

safety is clearly looking at keys from him right post snap.

In comment 14526095 Bill2 said:

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I watched the tape and then read the thread and Im kind of surprised. My take was that the endless repetitive section about Carter wiping the slate clean after the draft and when a high draft pick enters the NFL ( "because NFL coaches can put some people into situations where they succeed") was the most interesting part of the thread To me, its Carter starting the pivot re-positioning of his takes on DG, Barkley and Jones. 'For the draft I give hot takes. When it comes to the NFL games then im a pure tell it like it is analyst' Very entertaining. Reminded me of a Presidential candidate who went to the wings of their party to win primaries and now desperately repositioning as a "centrist" Not sure whose scrambling dance is funniest to watch ...certain media guys or certain posters. All of them assume we are stupid and forget what they said ( and said many times).

you guys take this stuff way too seriously

who cares what he said at the draft. He either has a point here or he doesn't. No one is keeping score for the analysis. That would be a pretty terrible sport.

Personally I think its a shitty take. Its stupid to measure a play against how the defense should have defended it.

say on the MadDog radio that "...Jones completed the TD pass against an undrafted rookie corner from Akron and a rookie safety...and if Jamaal Adams is in the game he easily picks off that pass..."

I'm only adding this to offset the anti-Carter brigade.

So now that's two NFL sources who thought Jones got away with one - Mangini and Orlavsky.

In comment 14526104 bw in dc said:

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say on the MadDog radio that "...Jones completed the TD pass against an undrafted rookie corner from Akron and a rookie safety...and if Jamaal Adams is in the game he easily picks off that pass..." I'm only adding this to offset the anti-Carter brigade. So now that's two NFL sources who thought Jones got away with one - Mangini and Orlavsky.

This is so ridiculous. You can only throw against who you are going against. He put the ball in a place where that safety wasn't getting it. If the safety reacts better maybe DJ puts it over the ball higher. Maybe he looks backside, maybe he pulls down and run.

the ball is getting picked. But it wasn't and that is what DJ saw.

1) hates the Giants

2) always values the black athlete above the white athlete.

In comment 14526105 Zeke's Alibi said:

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This is so ridiculous. You can only throw against who you are going against. He put the ball in a place where that safety wasn't getting it. If the safety reacts better maybe DJ puts it over the ball higher. Maybe he looks backside, maybe he pulls down and run.

I'm not sure it's ridiculous. In my view, I think we should be nuanced in how we evaluate the preseason, which I know you know...

Orlavsky had this incredible stat. I might quote it wrong, but he said the back-up QBs who have played in games so far have completed over 70% of their passes with 13TDs and 3 INTs. Suggesting, of course, that what we are saying need to be carefully measured against the competition on the field.

In comment 14526100 Zeke's Alibi said:

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inbreaking route. Trying to make a play probably to get noticed. Or it was a good route, hard to tell from the camera angle.

Yeah, it's hard to tell without the all-22 but he's coached to stay in his back peddle as long as he can to watch the TE, WR and QB. The inroute on that play from the WR is also a common call so it wouldn't be a surprise if that's what he was guessing at. Either way, it all happens so fast that you'd need to be an Earl Thomas or Honeybadger to change direction fast enough and make that play on Fowler in which case, I highly doubt that's the play call Shurmur is going with...

It's called the hi-low concept people!







Mark Schofield breaks down Giants QB performances in the Giants vs Jets preseason game - ( New Window )

"...what we are seeing needs..."

Even as CC pointed out, they ran a high-low on the safety. The play assumes one of those guys will be open depending on the CB play, and the QB hits him. So Jones was looking at that area the whole time yes, because that is what he is supposed to do. Watch both players and see what happens. The CB pulled up leaving the end zone guy 1-on-1, so this is where Jones threw. He picked the right guy regardless of which way the DB was looking.

In comment 14526121 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14526105 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: This is so ridiculous. You can only throw against who you are going against. He put the ball in a place where that safety wasn't getting it. If the safety reacts better maybe DJ puts it over the ball higher. Maybe he looks backside, maybe he pulls down and run. I'm not sure it's ridiculous. In my view, I think we should be nuanced in how we evaluate the preseason, which I know you know... Orlavsky had this incredible stat. I might quote it wrong, but he said the back-up QBs who have played in games so far have completed over 70% of their passes with 13TDs and 3 INTs. Suggesting, of course, that what we are saying need to be carefully measured against the competition on the field.

You're either quoting it wrong or it's false because it doesn't take much digging to find more than 3 ints thrown by 2nd string qbs in the preseason thus far. Hell, that's Haskins + Rosen combine...

I'm judging on what he is showing me. On the flip side of that I heard Darnold played great. I'd completely disagree. He should of thrown a pick that could of easily went the other way in the flat. Darnold, so far, is making the same type of mistakes he was making at USC and last year, that is type of shit I'd expect my QB to clean up in year 2.

In comment 14526128 Zeke's Alibi said:

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I'm judging on what he is showing me. On the flip side of that I heard Darnold played great. I'd completely disagree. He should of thrown a pick that could of easily went the other way in the flat. Darnold, so far, is making the same type of mistakes he was making at USC and last year, that is type of shit I'd expect my QB to clean up in year 2.

Funny that you mentioned that about Darnold. I sort of had the same reaction. I still saw some poor footwork/mild happy feet that would bother me as a Jets fan.

Gase still has work to do with his prized pupil...

In comment 14526127 Strahan91 said:

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You're either quoting it wrong or it's false because it doesn't take much digging to find more than 3 ints thrown by 2nd string qbs in the preseason thus far. Hell, that's Haskins + Rosen combine...

I'll see if I can figure that specific behind what DO said. He said it with a lot of confidence - # of passes/# of completions/etc.

does Tom Green do NFL analysis?

Here is the way I looked at it then and just as much now:

None of these folks is really comfortable saying: " Cant tell yet"

Or in fairness, their job pushes them to make controversial statements with little evidence.

That's not true of us on BBI

Honestly, the difference between executing that string of plays in the first pre-season and playoff speed good defenses has left many a prospect stranded ( and many a very good QB needing more than one chance to tweak and speed their game and recognition skills).

Its great start. That's great for us. Layering more meaning pro and con is too often trying to keep a consistent posture with ones prior statements ( especially if its media.)

All the data at this time is up for wide interpretation. Watching people torturing the data into confessing their first emotion ( and that's what a first take is) can be entertaining. Witness Rameses Barden or Washington or or or or.
Anyone who works in even a mid size company sees the same everyday. Every chart drives to the upper right corner. Starting next year.

Its just hard to be patient. And its hard to be uncertain for long without trying to hard to fill in the pixels into a clear picture

and I said it in the game thread last night. The ball was thrown accurately, but the DB was in perfect position.. he just did not have the ball awareness. Should have been intercepted.

In comment 14526220 EricJ said:

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and I said it in the game thread last night. The ball was thrown accurately, but the DB was in perfect position.. he just did not have the ball awareness. Should have been intercepted.

He didn't have the outside edge where the ball was thrown.

Think though. People arguing over a preseason throw by a rookie QB because a dingleberry can't get over a white guy was drafted over Haskins like he is the next Marino.

In comment 14526127 Strahan91 said:

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You're either quoting it wrong or it's false because it doesn't take much digging to find more than 3 ints thrown by 2nd string qbs in the preseason thus far. Hell, that's Haskins + Rosen combine...

I re-listened to Orlavsky interview. He said for the back-up QBs who played Thursday night, they were a combined 236 for 329, 13TDs and 3 INTs. Said most of the back-ups QBs played mostly with starters and the defenses were mostly 2nd string. Not sure how to verify that.

One thing I omitted - Orlavsky said the Jets has a rookie corner and two rookie safeties on the TD play...one rookie from Akron, one from Arkansas..

In comment 14526258 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14526127 Strahan91 said: Quote: You're either quoting it wrong or it's false because it doesn't take much digging to find more than 3 ints thrown by 2nd string qbs in the preseason thus far. Hell, that's Haskins + Rosen combine... I re-listened to Orlavsky interview. He said for the back-up QBs who played Thursday night, they were a combined 236 for 329, 13TDs and 3 INTs. Said most of the back-ups QBs played mostly with starters and the defenses were mostly 2nd string. Not sure how to verify that. One thing I omitted - Orlavsky said the Jets has a rookie corner and two rookie safeties on the TD play...one rookie from Akron, one from Arkansas..

Honestly if you're not interested more in being right than the Giants being good why would you try so fucking hard to discredit Jones. Are you just a miserable person who wants to troll this site?

In comment 14526258 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14526127 Strahan91 said: Quote: You're either quoting it wrong or it's false because it doesn't take much digging to find more than 3 ints thrown by 2nd string qbs in the preseason thus far. Hell, that's Haskins + Rosen combine... I re-listened to Orlavsky interview. He said for the back-up QBs who played Thursday night, they were a combined 236 for 329, 13TDs and 3 INTs. Said most of the back-ups QBs played mostly with starters and the defenses were mostly 2nd string. Not sure how to verify that. One thing I omitted - Orlavsky said the Jets has a rookie corner and two rookie safeties on the TD play...one rookie from Akron, one from Arkansas..

Grier, Haskins and Rosen had a combined 4 interceptions on Thursday night off the top of my head.

In comment 14526266 BestFeature said:

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Honestly if you're not interested more in being right than the Giants being good why would you try so fucking hard to discredit Jones. Are you just a miserable person who wants to troll this site?

This is largely a debate site. I heard interesting commentary the last two days about the Jones TD. It caught my attention because it was something I didn't notice or even think about. So I posted it. If you have a hard time dealing with it, that's on you.

I do like to kick it around and have lively debate, but this topic was completely nefarious. Frankly, I think the problem is Carter as the messenger. Not me. And too many people unable to get past Carter's pre-draft commentary.

As for the my motives to troll, be right, etc, I simply have nothing to add. It's a boring, baseless take.

.

In comment 14526099 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 14526085 River Mike said: I thought I heard Shurmur intimate that while the play worked it was not necessarily where the ball should have gone given the risk/reward. As said here the TE was open and an easier play. Regarding Carter. He really is an idiot. Calling the Giants racist when the man who ran the Giants along with his right hand man for years are both African American? Carter has had it in for the Giants since his playing days. Remember his comments about Sehorn when he got his large contract? Same guy who advised NFL players in training camp sessions that the most important thing when going out as a group is to have a designated Fall Guy in the event trouble breaks out. Didn't see him for awhile after that in NFL advisory sessions. Stupid is as stupid does. Quote: gave a very fair assessment of what he saw. Thursday night, my son said the exact same thing about the TD throw. Even if you disagree, why in the world would you call him a douche. His overall comments on the night for DJ were appropriately critical and did not diminish what DJ accomplished. I'm going to assume that you didn't hear his comments calling the Giants a racist organization who wouldn't have taken Jones if he was African American because that's why everyone is calling him a douche...

In comment 14526099 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 14526085 River Mike said: I thought I heard Shurmur intimate that while the play worked it was not necessarily where the ball should have gone given the risk/reward. As said here the TE was open and an easier play. Regarding Carter. He really is an idiot. Calling the Giants racist when the man who ran the Giants along with his right hand man for years are both African American? Carter has had it in for the Giants since his playing days. Remember his comments about Sehorn when he got his large contract? Same guy who advised NFL players in training camp sessions that the most important thing when going out as a group is to have a designated Fall Guy in the event trouble breaks out. Didn't see him for awhile after that in NFL advisory sessions. Stupid is as stupid does. Quote: gave a very fair assessment of what he saw. Thursday night, my son said the exact same thing about the TD throw. Even if you disagree, why in the world would you call him a douche. His overall comments on the night for DJ were appropriately critical and did not diminish what DJ accomplished. I'm going to assume that you didn't hear his comments calling the Giants a racist organization who wouldn't have taken Jones if he was African American because that's why everyone is calling him a douche...

In comment 14526285 Strahan91 said:

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Grier, Haskins and Rosen had a combined 4 interceptions on Thursday night off the top of my head.

Is Grier the actual back-up?

In comment 14526287 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14526266 BestFeature said: Quote: Honestly if you're not interested more in being right than the Giants being good why would you try so fucking hard to discredit Jones. Are you just a miserable person who wants to troll this site? This is largely a debate site. I heard interesting commentary the last two days about the Jones TD. It caught my attention because it was something I didn't notice or even think about. So I posted it. If you have a hard time dealing with it, that's on you. I do like to kick it around and have lively debate, but this topic was completely nefarious. Frankly, I think the problem is Carter as the messenger. Not me. And too many people unable to get past Carter's pre-draft commentary. As for the my motives to troll, be right, etc, I simply have nothing to add. It's a boring, baseless take.

You keep bringing up people to corroborate the point. If your intent was just debate why would you try so hard to corroborate this point?

In comment 14526298 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14526285 Strahan91 said: Quote: Grier, Haskins and Rosen had a combined 4 interceptions on Thursday night off the top of my head. Is Grier the actual back-up?

I assumed he meant the 2nd qb to come into the game. It seems like he’s twisting stats to fit a narrative. I didn’t listen to him so i don’t know what that narrative is but for example, Joe Webb threw 2 interceptions Thursday night and was the only qb on Houston that took a snap. McCarron is listed as their #2 but is out for the preseason and one would think unlikely then to make the team.

be the next hot take superstar and those guys have hotter takes than the Stephen A's, Kellermans, and Baylesses of the world. Sounds like he was cherry picking his data as far as definition of backup QB is.

term thinking that seems to be the driver of everything these days. From science to business to sports.

Carter wants Jones to fail.

For this narrative to come out this way, he was hoping Jones laid an egg and Haskins played great.

In comment 14526258 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14526127 Strahan91 said: Quote: You're either quoting it wrong or it's false because it doesn't take much digging to find more than 3 ints thrown by 2nd string qbs in the preseason thus far. Hell, that's Haskins + Rosen combine... I re-listened to Orlavsky interview. He said for the back-up QBs who played Thursday night, they were a combined 236 for 329, 13TDs and 3 INTs. Said most of the back-ups QBs played mostly with starters and the defenses were mostly 2nd string. Not sure how to verify that. One thing I omitted - Orlavsky said the Jets has a rookie corner and two rookie safeties on the TD play...one rookie from Akron, one from Arkansas..

He was wrong. You have two thrown by Haskins plus one by Ballentine and one by Carlock. That's four on Thursday night in just two games. There were others as well.

In comment 14525921 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14525910 Reale01 said: Quote: At the end of the video, CC says that he could see why he was a first-round pick. Good point. Carter said that now that Jones in actually in the league he will only evaluate what he sees and not go back to his pre-draft analysis of Jones's play at Duke.

I wonder if he will still think DJ is white.

When it’s a gorgeous Saturday here in the tri-State area... some of you are really dorks.

In comment 14526300 BestFeature said:

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In comment 14526287 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 14526266 BestFeature said: Quote: Honestly if you're not interested more in being right than the Giants being good why would you try so fucking hard to discredit Jones. Are you just a miserable person who wants to troll this site? This is largely a debate site. I heard interesting commentary the last two days about the Jones TD. It caught my attention because it was something I didn't notice or even think about. So I posted it. If you have a hard time dealing with it, that's on you. I do like to kick it around and have lively debate, but this topic was completely nefarious. Frankly, I think the problem is Carter as the messenger. Not me. And too many people unable to get past Carter's pre-draft commentary. As for the my motives to troll, be right, etc, I simply have nothing to add. It's a boring, baseless take. You keep bringing up people to corroborate the point. If your intent was just debate why would you try so hard to corroborate this point?

ditto but ten times more to you -- with you throwing darts about people who complain suggesting they want the team to fail or miserable. It borders on lunacy all because poor little you feels like posters have to fit perfectly in how you view things.

His first words were: "He's had a good training camp, and you can see that transferred over to the game..."

I imagine he might offer some caveats, but I also imagine they won't be nearly as antagonistic as people seem to think they are.

this now and I wonder why CC brings up the safety not being an NFL player? He didn't mention the "quality" of players that made the INTs on Haskins. He didn't mention the poor footwork of Haskins on the wheel route...He also says the Giants gave him much easier looks than the other two. Is it a bad thing that a coach decided to put his QB in a position that will be successful?

Jones is going to take his licks as being over drafted, but lets not start making excuses b/c you don't like him

In comment 14526301 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 14526298 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 14526285 Strahan91 said: Quote: Grier, Haskins and Rosen had a combined 4 interceptions on Thursday night off the top of my head. Is Grier the actual back-up? I assumed he meant the 2nd qb to come into the game. It seems like he’s twisting stats to fit a narrative. I didn’t listen to him so i don’t know what that narrative is but for example, Joe Webb threw 2 interceptions Thursday night and was the only qb on Houston that took a snap. McCarron is listed as their #2 but is out for the preseason and one would think unlikely then to make the team.

Maybe. I'll dig into it later. DOrlo did specifically say Thursday night.

In comment 14526324 santacruzom said:

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His first words were: "He's had a good training camp, and you can see that transferred over to the game..." I imagine he might offer some caveats, but I also imagine they won't be nearly as antagonistic as people seem to think they are.

I would guess well over half the poster didn't watch the link. No surprise.

Carter is very complimentary about Jones and says he is willing to wipe the slate clean.

And for Haskins it was especially undeserving. Whereas he intentionally muted or worse Jones’ positives. The racial aspect to this is impossible to ignore.

The bottom line is, at least for this one night, Jones was the best of the three QBs. And nobody on the broadcast would say it.

In comment 14526300 BestFeature said:

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You keep bringing up people to corroborate the point. If your intent was just debate why would you try so hard to corroborate this point?

My intent was to add more color and context to the discussion.

In comment 14526338 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14526300 BestFeature said: Quote: You keep bringing up people to corroborate the point. If your intent was just debate why would you try so hard to corroborate this point? My intent was to add more color and context to the discussion.

that was Carters intention too (except for the context part). So, full circle.

I’m pacing myself Sargent...