the safety just took a bad angle and was very slow to react. It was the action of a rookie. Both safeties on the play were rookies, and the corner who sunk too low was also a rookie.
Forget the interception prediction. At the very least, with a competent, seasoned S, the play should have easily been broken up.
the safety just took a bad angle and was very slow to react. It was the action of a rookie. Both safeties on the play were rookies, and the corner who sunk too low was also a rookie.
Forget the interception prediction. At the very least, with a competent, seasoned S, the play should have easily been broken up.
The safety gambled on that play trying to make a pick. DJ made him pay.
the safety just took a bad angle and was very slow to react. It was the action of a rookie. Both safeties on the play were rookies, and the corner who sunk too low was also a rookie.
Forget the interception prediction. At the very least, with a competent, seasoned S, the play should have easily been broken up.
What?? You do realize the safety was in decent coverage but didn't look back for the ball. It isn't like a seasoned safety was going to be perched back there waiting.
How many times are TD passes scrutinized to the point of hypotheticals and what could have beens?
This is a bit unique though. This wasn't a gratuitous discussion that occurred in a vacuum... it was mentioned in the course of discussing how a rookie QB looked, and seemed to be little more than mentioning he might want to exercise caution against the likes of Jamal Adams.
It isn't a war crime.
RE: RE: It seems to me it's reasonable to conclude... Â
What?? You do realize the safety was in decent coverage but didn't look back for the ball. It isn't like a seasoned safety was going to be perched back there waiting.
No, I don't realize that at all. How can Ramirez be in "decent coverage" when's he's actually trailing the route? He's not looking back because he's beaten, and desperately trying to get back to save the play.
If you can actually seriously say Jamaal Adams couldn't read that route combination in his sleep, and make a better play than an undrafted rookie from Arkansas, than I regret to say the wrong poster has been called Matt in Syracuse...
What?? You do realize the safety was in decent coverage but didn't look back for the ball. It isn't like a seasoned safety was going to be perched back there waiting.
No, I don't realize that at all. How can Ramirez be in "decent coverage" when's he's actually trailing the route? He's not looking back because he's beaten, and desperately trying to get back to save the play.
If you can actually seriously say Jamaal Adams couldn't read that route combination in his sleep, and make a better play than an undrafted rookie from Arkansas, than I regret to say the wrong poster has been called Matt in Syracuse..
would he have thrown it if the safety was in great position?
Is part of the conversation here. How is it a negative against Jones?
That's the problem - the typical problem, actually - around here. The play has been misconstrued as a ding against Jones. But's not.
It's an analysis of the play, and how the success of the play, while good to see, would very likely not have been a TD/completion in a real NFL game. Just context. But the "how dare you crowd" can't seem to handle that, so they look for ways to kill the messenger. In this case, I guess Carter is a racist and still resents the blowout in the 2000 NFC CG.
I think, objectively, Jones received much more scorn from CC for throwing his TD pass, than Haskins did for throwing his. The difference being, that Jones threw his TD pass to his own team.
Well, one of the differences, anyway.
I hadn't watched him deliver his comments about Haskins until now... while he offered some compliments, he also basically asserted that if Haskins doesn't learn to protect the ball, his teammates will hate him.
think the optimal coverage is for the safety to be in the back of the end zone facing the ball?
C'mon - tghis has been really put unecessarily under the microscope
I agree with one part - this has gotten way too deep in the weeds.
In all the irrational exuberance, I thought it would be interesting to share views I didn’t expect to hear - that the TD pass may have been less about Jones and more about poor D. And when I heard that from four different sources, it seemed reasonable, especially the more I looked at it...
RE: Only Giants fans would ruin a 5 for 5 and a TD debut Â
Incredible the amount of gymnastics certain people here need to do to find ways to discredit what should have been an open-and-shut, encouraging first performance for Jones.
I shudder to think what some of you guys are going to be like when he throws a fucking incompletion against the Bears on Friday. Or worse... an interception.
He was better than anyone here assumed he was going to be in game 1. We don't need to turn it into anything more than that. Really.
All anyone should want to see now is him build on that and continue to make progress each week. There's really no need to micro-analyze every breath he took on the field so that we can find reasons to throw cold water all over it.
Oh, I get it.... you're the better "fan" because you pose as the "realist" who doesn't drink the kool-aid and is skeptical of everything.
That's a hoot.
It's not a question of not drinking the kool-aid or even skepticism. It's flat out, ever-present, unflinching, "they suck" about every single thing Giants.
And please see our charter on what's required to be a fan.
You openly admit that you enjoy shitting on the Giants and management when they are losing. yet when they had their run years ago, you were nowhere to be seen.
You do only have 1 view. Its boring. Its tiresome.
The throw was a great one. If the defender is trailing and not looking, then you throw it 10x out of 10. You can make the case its the same as throwing a back shoulder throw in the end zone. Or underthrowing a deep ball to force a PI.
Oh, I get it.... you're the better "fan" because you pose as the "realist" who doesn't drink the kool-aid and is skeptical of everything.
That's a hoot.
It's not a question of not drinking the kool-aid or even skepticism. It's flat out, ever-present, unflinching, "they suck" about every single thing Giants.
And, it's 100% schtick.
Of course. It's why there was no bw to be found when the Giants were winning Super Bowls.
Some posters have no ammo if they can't criticize and complain.
You openly admit that you enjoy shitting on the Giants and management when they are losing. yet when they had their run years ago, you were nowhere to be seen.
I do? Now, posters have tried to put those words in my mouth, but I’ve never said any of that. I’ve written how much I enjoyed the Camelot Era of Giants football - ‘84 to ‘ 90 - and how I long for those days and consistency. And how much I disapprove of the way Jints Central conducts football business. They are responsible for this new dark age...
As for my hiatus, I’ve explained that. And it absolutely zero to do with winning SBs. Purely coincidental.
go back to the main question - why is the throw being scrutinized so closely, and why are assumptions and comments being made that it should have been picked off? When is the last time a player was criticized for a TD pass that was accurate and not contended by the defender?
When Landon Collins dropped the INT against the Pats, was that a criticism of Brady? No. It was about Collins sucking at securing the ball.
Here - a defender didn't even locate the ball, which is exactly the type of scenario a QB takes advantage of.
I agree with everything you say in this post and agree with what is implied by the question. It points to obvious bias. It feels like a number of people in the media are waiting to deliver their I told you so's. When the exact opposite of what they wanted to happen happened they all threw fits and made pronouncements that exposed their bias.
You openly admit that you enjoy shitting on the Giants and management when they are losing. yet when they had their run years ago, you were nowhere to be seen.
I do? Now, posters have tried to put those words in my mouth, but I’ve never said any of that. I’ve written how much I enjoyed the Camelot Era of Giants football - ‘84 to ‘ 90 - and how I long for those days and consistency. And how much I disapprove of the way Jints Central conducts football business. They are responsible for this new dark age...
As for my hiatus, I’ve explained that. And it absolutely zero to do with winning SBs. Purely coincidental.
Giant fans are easy to troll and you enjoy it. Someone married into our family that is exactly like you. I am familiar with your shtick.
Oh, I get it.... you're the better "fan" because you pose as the "realist" who doesn't drink the kool-aid and is skeptical of everything.
That's a hoot.
No, apparently you are. And your ilk. I never question a poster’s fandom. But I’m cool with that. I get your self-righteousness.
However, I’m never going to change trying to look at things through a different lens. If it’s thought provoking, and last time I checked this is a debate site, than I’m going for it...
I didn't think he said anything terribly outlandish. Maybe he has an agenda, but it seemed to me he was saying Pump your breaks on all the QBs because it's one series. Maybe there's an agenda underneath it, but in a vacuum, it just seemed like he was saying "There's some teachable moments, whether the players did well or poorly."
I think that the person who should feel the most disrespected is his co-host. Geez.
But that's why I don't watch shows like this. They're aimed at getting people riled up.
RE: BBI has its only little clique it seems like now Â
You do realize that Arc is one of the better posters in this site and is as even kee as they come?
You aren’t here to debate. You’re here to rule up posters like thegratefulhead said. Pretty sad if you ask me.
I like arc. Seems bright and thoughtful.
Rides the fence too much for my tastes, but a good read on most days.
Lol... well, anyone who doesn't dismiss any ounce of positivity will fall under that category for you.
I think it's easy to just be skeptical and dismissive at every turn. Your role here takes little effort. It's what radar did for years with slightly more tact. Wherever the consensus zigs, just... zag.
As long as you always stay on the opposite end of the majority, you'll always have people to argue with and you'll always stay occupied here. It wouldn't be fun for you if you actually gave Jints Central credit for anything or agreed with a majority take - so, you choose not to. You'd have no way to get your kicks here, you'd be bored, and you'd probably have nothing to do.
"Riding the fence" can also just be called trying to better understand an opposing viewpoint or consider that perhaps my own opinions could be incorrect - I find humility to be an important quality.
Beckham is a good example. I spent years pretty dug in on defending him. I insisted that his off field behavior was not worth all of the bellyaching and had little to no impact on his performance and was pretty vocal in opposing the posters who weren't fans of his. I didn't love certain things he did - but generally speaking, I felt like the talent outweighed the other stuff.
Well, when the smoke cleared, it seemed perhaps his presence was more of a negative than I had originally thought. And maybe it wasn't all just harmless. From a team perspective, his being here didn't seem to be helping anything.
The more that was revealed about things he said or did or how he handled himself, the more I felt silly for having bought into his good seed act in camp last year just so he'd get paid. I obviously didn't know all of the facts there, but I often dug my heels in on it anyway.
Tangent aside; the point is... I think there's often this misguided notion that there's something admirable about grasping onto an opinion and sticking to it no matter who piles on you or disagrees with you.
In some cases, that's all well and good. In others, it's being stubborn and not allowing yourself to view something objectively because being right becomes more important than being informed.
Daniel Jones has become the perfect example of this. In a performance that was nearly impossible to nitpick, many of those who didn't like Gettleman drafting him still found a way.
5 passes is all he threw. He completed all 5 and the last one went for a TD. And yet, pages worth of putting the defensive positioning under a microscope and dissecting every fraction of velocity the ball was thrown with ensued so that people could do mental gymnastics to find something to argue about.
There's nothing wrong with letting go of the seemingly inherent need to be right all the time. It would serve much of this board well. But I guess that would also eliminate a lot of the vitriol and day-long arguments that people seem to feed on here. Just my .02.
How many times are TD passes scrutinized to the point of hypotheticals and what could have beens?
The DB never turned around, yet the supposition is not just that a starter would've turned around, but also intercepted the ball.
How the fuck does somebody watch that play and come to that conclusion?
Forget the interception prediction. At the very least, with a competent, seasoned S, the play should have easily been broken up.
Quote:
It's a conversation about some hypothetical play against a hypothetical DB playing out in a fashion different than reality.
Did you listen? Sharpe says the TD pass was essentially poor D - the corner sunk too low in coverage and the S was too slow getting over...
Which is bullshit because the corner was never going to be in that play. Tight end ran to his responsibility. The safety gambled and lost.
Forget the interception prediction. At the very least, with a competent, seasoned S, the play should have easily been broken up.
The safety gambled on that play trying to make a pick. DJ made him pay.
He's become Matt in Syracuse.
Forget the interception prediction. At the very least, with a competent, seasoned S, the play should have easily been broken up.
What?? You do realize the safety was in decent coverage but didn't look back for the ball. It isn't like a seasoned safety was going to be perched back there waiting.
How many times are TD passes scrutinized to the point of hypotheticals and what could have beens?
This is a bit unique though. This wasn't a gratuitous discussion that occurred in a vacuum... it was mentioned in the course of discussing how a rookie QB looked, and seemed to be little more than mentioning he might want to exercise caution against the likes of Jamal Adams.
It isn't a war crime.
What?? You do realize the safety was in decent coverage but didn't look back for the ball. It isn't like a seasoned safety was going to be perched back there waiting.
No, I don't realize that at all. How can Ramirez be in "decent coverage" when's he's actually trailing the route? He's not looking back because he's beaten, and desperately trying to get back to save the play.
If you can actually seriously say Jamaal Adams couldn't read that route combination in his sleep, and make a better play than an undrafted rookie from Arkansas, than I regret to say the wrong poster has been called Matt in Syracuse...
C'mon - tghis has been really put unecessarily under the microscope
Quote:
What?? You do realize the safety was in decent coverage but didn't look back for the ball. It isn't like a seasoned safety was going to be perched back there waiting.
No, I don't realize that at all. How can Ramirez be in "decent coverage" when's he's actually trailing the route? He's not looking back because he's beaten, and desperately trying to get back to save the play.
If you can actually seriously say Jamaal Adams couldn't read that route combination in his sleep, and make a better play than an undrafted rookie from Arkansas, than I regret to say the wrong poster has been called Matt in Syracuse..
would he have thrown it if the safety was in great position?
Quote:
In comment 14528277 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
Is part of the conversation here. How is it a negative against Jones?
That's the problem - the typical problem, actually - around here. The play has been misconstrued as a ding against Jones. But's not.
It's an analysis of the play, and how the success of the play, while good to see, would very likely not have been a TD/completion in a real NFL game. Just context. But the "how dare you crowd" can't seem to handle that, so they look for ways to kill the messenger. In this case, I guess Carter is a racist and still resents the blowout in the 2000 NFC CG.
I think, objectively, Jones received much more scorn from CC for throwing his TD pass, than Haskins did for throwing his. The difference being, that Jones threw his TD pass to his own team.
Well, one of the differences, anyway.
I hadn't watched him deliver his comments about Haskins until now... while he offered some compliments, he also basically asserted that if Haskins doesn't learn to protect the ball, his teammates will hate him.
C'mon - tghis has been really put unecessarily under the microscope
I agree with one part - this has gotten way too deep in the weeds.
In all the irrational exuberance, I thought it would be interesting to share views I didn’t expect to hear - that the TD pass may have been less about Jones and more about poor D. And when I heard that from four different sources, it seemed reasonable, especially the more I looked at it...
Only a select few who have turned this forum into a clusterfuck. Notice it’s the same group in EVERY thread.
That’s why I classify them as “fans.”
I shudder to think what some of you guys are going to be like when he throws a fucking incompletion against the Bears on Friday. Or worse... an interception.
He was better than anyone here assumed he was going to be in game 1. We don't need to turn it into anything more than that. Really.
All anyone should want to see now is him build on that and continue to make progress each week. There's really no need to micro-analyze every breath he took on the field so that we can find reasons to throw cold water all over it.
If he throws an INT, they will complain he should have taken a sack, thrown it away, or it was a game changing INT.
Rinse and repeat.
Our motto is one view. And one view only.
And please see our charter on what's required to be a fan.
And yet, he received the worst commentary.
That's a hoot.
That's a hoot.
It's not a question of not drinking the kool-aid or even skepticism. It's flat out, ever-present, unflinching, "they suck" about every single thing Giants.
And, it's 100% schtick.
Our motto is one view. And one view only.
And please see our charter on what's required to be a fan.
You openly admit that you enjoy shitting on the Giants and management when they are losing. yet when they had their run years ago, you were nowhere to be seen.
You do only have 1 view. Its boring. Its tiresome.
The throw was a great one. If the defender is trailing and not looking, then you throw it 10x out of 10. You can make the case its the same as throwing a back shoulder throw in the end zone. Or underthrowing a deep ball to force a PI.
Christ.
Quote:
Oh, I get it.... you're the better "fan" because you pose as the "realist" who doesn't drink the kool-aid and is skeptical of everything.
That's a hoot.
It's not a question of not drinking the kool-aid or even skepticism. It's flat out, ever-present, unflinching, "they suck" about every single thing Giants.
And, it's 100% schtick.
Of course. It's why there was no bw to be found when the Giants were winning Super Bowls.
Some posters have no ammo if they can't criticize and complain.
You openly admit that you enjoy shitting on the Giants and management when they are losing. yet when they had their run years ago, you were nowhere to be seen.
I do? Now, posters have tried to put those words in my mouth, but I’ve never said any of that. I’ve written how much I enjoyed the Camelot Era of Giants football - ‘84 to ‘ 90 - and how I long for those days and consistency. And how much I disapprove of the way Jints Central conducts football business. They are responsible for this new dark age...
As for my hiatus, I’ve explained that. And it absolutely zero to do with winning SBs. Purely coincidental.
When Landon Collins dropped the INT against the Pats, was that a criticism of Brady? No. It was about Collins sucking at securing the ball.
Here - a defender didn't even locate the ball, which is exactly the type of scenario a QB takes advantage of.
Quote:
You openly admit that you enjoy shitting on the Giants and management when they are losing. yet when they had their run years ago, you were nowhere to be seen.
I do? Now, posters have tried to put those words in my mouth, but I’ve never said any of that. I’ve written how much I enjoyed the Camelot Era of Giants football - ‘84 to ‘ 90 - and how I long for those days and consistency. And how much I disapprove of the way Jints Central conducts football business. They are responsible for this new dark age...
As for my hiatus, I’ve explained that. And it absolutely zero to do with winning SBs. Purely coincidental.
That's a hoot.
No, apparently you are. And your ilk. I never question a poster’s fandom. But I’m cool with that. I get your self-righteousness.
However, I’m never going to change trying to look at things through a different lens. If it’s thought provoking, and last time I checked this is a debate site, than I’m going for it...
You aren’t here to debate. You’re here to rule up posters like thegratefulhead said. Pretty sad if you ask me.
Giant fans are easy to troll and you enjoy it. Someone married into our family that is exactly like you. I am familiar with your shtick.
My condolences to your family... ;)
You aren’t here to debate. You’re here to rule up posters like thegratefulhead said. Pretty sad if you ask me.
I like arc. Seems bright and thoughtful.
Rides the fence too much for my tastes, but a good read on most days.
For the weaker posters throwing stones its par for the course, but for some of the better ones its disappointing
But it is pretty funny to see - especially when one of the posters gets questioned in any way. hahaha
I think that the person who should feel the most disrespected is his co-host. Geez.
But that's why I don't watch shows like this. They're aimed at getting people riled up.
I must say it's been a while since I read something that so acutely captures a pot calling a kettle black than this...
You're a pisser, man. Don't ever change.
But it is pretty funny to see - especially when one of the posters gets questioned in any way. hahaha
how cute...and we know you need the support
Jan, wear this badge with pride!
Quote:
they follow each other around like puppy dogs, supporting each other at every turn. Hell, maybe even some of them are besties.
I must say it's been a while since I read something that so acutely captures a pot calling a kettle black than this...
You're a pisser, man. Don't ever change.
He's right to a certain extent though. If we didn't know and sometime love you, you'd be in for a much more strident time here.
Jan, wear this badge with pride!
Umm, do I have to? :D
Quote:
get the initiation ceremony ready for Jan in DC
Jan, wear this badge with pride!
Umm, do I have to? :D
too late buddy. in for a pinch in for a pound!
Quote:
they follow each other around like puppy dogs, supporting each other at every turn. Hell, maybe even some of them are besties.
I must say it's been a while since I read something that so acutely captures a pot calling a kettle black than this...
You're a pisser, man. Don't ever change.
Lol, who the hell do I follow around?
Just look after I posted this, the three musketeers or stooges more likely, come running. It’s as predictable as they come.
He's right to a certain extent though. If we didn't know and sometime love you, you'd be in for a much more strident time here.
Interesting. Have I crossed some BBI mainstream lines I don't or should know about?
you can't win with some on here...
you can't win with some on here...
Here's your gold sticker. Happy now?
Here's your gold sticker. Happy now?
We only hand out gold stars on this side of the aisle.
Quote:
Here's your gold sticker. Happy now?
We only hand out gold stars on this side of the aisle.
Gold stars are for adults, stickers for juveniles.
Quote:
You do realize that Arc is one of the better posters in this site and is as even kee as they come?
You aren’t here to debate. You’re here to rule up posters like thegratefulhead said. Pretty sad if you ask me.
I like arc. Seems bright and thoughtful.
Rides the fence too much for my tastes, but a good read on most days.
Lol... well, anyone who doesn't dismiss any ounce of positivity will fall under that category for you.
I think it's easy to just be skeptical and dismissive at every turn. Your role here takes little effort. It's what radar did for years with slightly more tact. Wherever the consensus zigs, just... zag.
As long as you always stay on the opposite end of the majority, you'll always have people to argue with and you'll always stay occupied here. It wouldn't be fun for you if you actually gave Jints Central credit for anything or agreed with a majority take - so, you choose not to. You'd have no way to get your kicks here, you'd be bored, and you'd probably have nothing to do.
"Riding the fence" can also just be called trying to better understand an opposing viewpoint or consider that perhaps my own opinions could be incorrect - I find humility to be an important quality.
Beckham is a good example. I spent years pretty dug in on defending him. I insisted that his off field behavior was not worth all of the bellyaching and had little to no impact on his performance and was pretty vocal in opposing the posters who weren't fans of his. I didn't love certain things he did - but generally speaking, I felt like the talent outweighed the other stuff.
Well, when the smoke cleared, it seemed perhaps his presence was more of a negative than I had originally thought. And maybe it wasn't all just harmless. From a team perspective, his being here didn't seem to be helping anything.
The more that was revealed about things he said or did or how he handled himself, the more I felt silly for having bought into his good seed act in camp last year just so he'd get paid. I obviously didn't know all of the facts there, but I often dug my heels in on it anyway.
Tangent aside; the point is... I think there's often this misguided notion that there's something admirable about grasping onto an opinion and sticking to it no matter who piles on you or disagrees with you.
In some cases, that's all well and good. In others, it's being stubborn and not allowing yourself to view something objectively because being right becomes more important than being informed.
Daniel Jones has become the perfect example of this. In a performance that was nearly impossible to nitpick, many of those who didn't like Gettleman drafting him still found a way.
5 passes is all he threw. He completed all 5 and the last one went for a TD. And yet, pages worth of putting the defensive positioning under a microscope and dissecting every fraction of velocity the ball was thrown with ensued so that people could do mental gymnastics to find something to argue about.
There's nothing wrong with letting go of the seemingly inherent need to be right all the time. It would serve much of this board well. But I guess that would also eliminate a lot of the vitriol and day-long arguments that people seem to feed on here. Just my .02.