This is a great statement and I wish more people on BBI would act the same way.
Quote:
"Riding the fence" can also just be called trying to better understand an opposing viewpoint or consider that perhaps my own opinions could be incorrect - I find humility to be an important quality.
I really love you guys - "my role..." This is just brilliant. Yes, I interviewed with Eric, for "the role", and he decided I was the right man for the job. Now if I can only get Eric to pay. ;)
You actually have it backwards. It's much easier to play "your role". To be deferential and trust nearly everything this organization does.
I really struggle why more people don't actually have more curiosity the other way and ask, "Gee, does that really make sense here? Does that idea really fit?" Are they really looking at league trends? Are they studying how other rosters are assembled? Are the right mix of decision makers in place. Etc. You get the drill...
I have that curiosity (I do risk management for a living, so I have to always think about the downside...). And having been a fan for so long, and having a fairly good understanding of this team's history, I am much less trusting of the characters who run this organization.
Look, we all have our perspectives and history with the team. So that's where these splits likely occur.
I guess I have this history as being "negative" and people get pissed off when I start to raise doubt.
Like this Jones TD thing. I have mentioned several times prior, that I came away very impressed with his performance. But I listened to some other opinions, felt they were compelling (specifically about the TD pass), and decided to inject them into the conversation. Instead of listening, and giving the thought consideration, the usual suspects do what they do - default to their silly preconceived notions and miss the point(s)...Then this cacophony builds and the fun really starts... ;)
Hey, if you prefer the "BigBlueMonolithic" model, you're certainly not alone. There are a lot here that like wrapping themselves in that same echo chamber. I just don't and will continue to fill the responsibilities of my unpaid "role"... ;)
I would argue that you listened to the opinion (on DJ's TD) Â
with no regard to the context surrounding the commentary. Until people wanted to dissect it (and considering it was a 100% hypothetical), there really was no contrary thought at all, other than by a biased, likely racially motivated ESPN-head.
I love when people defend their position and say they try to look at different angles on why circumstances happen and try to get differing opinions on why I play worked/didnt work.
But if you try to explain why an INT or pass may not be Eli's - holy shit. You get called a member of EFC (bw's famous phrase), you are just making excuses for him, it's never Eli's fault, etc.... Even if a HOF says it wasnt his fault - you cant point that out without being ridiculed.
But I guess the "objective" posters are the ones who just pick and choose whats worth arguing over, I guess?
RE: I would argue that you listened to the opinion (on DJ's TD) Â
with no regard to the context surrounding the commentary. Until people wanted to dissect it (and considering it was a 100% hypothetical), there really was no contrary thought at all, other than by a biased, likely racially motivated ESPN-head.
This is getting like a circular error in Excel.
When I realized the civil rights crowd objected, I added other people who concluded the same thing as Carter. But they were summarily dismissed because they weren't interesting enough, or easy to attack - like Carter...
I don't prefer any "model" of thought - that's where we differ. Every topic is different. I don't just throw everything under one tidy blanked labeled 'Jints Central' and act like our front office is Area 51.
We're not dealing with extraterrestrial life or highly secretive material here - it's a football team. They make some decisions that make sense, they make some that don't.
You seem to be predisposed to assume every decision they make is the wrong one. Is it really that hard to just question everything a team does?
Skepticism takes little effort. Ask why and ask why again.
I also don't defer to everything the Giants do. I've been plenty critical when I've felt criticism was warranted. Read posts of mine from the 2017 season if you'd like. I was killing them and was crushing Reese's drafts after zero-yield after zero-yield.
I think the misconception or disconnect comes in that I don't like to go overboard with spur of the moment, instant reactions to things. I don't just assume a move is bad because it appears to be on the surface. I'll admit it may well be one - but in many cases, there's just no way to know that in that moment.
I was vocally opposed to drafting Daniel Jones at 6 because the sense I got was that we'd have been able to take him @ 17.
Well, as it turned out - based on several reports, that likely was not the case.
Rather than throw an absolute FIT over taking him @ 6, I gave it a minute to breathe and play out and was wiling to hear the reasoning behind it and give him a chance to play before burying him.
Was it the choice I'd have made there? At the time, honestly no. But that's why I'm sitting here and not in an NFL front office.
I get it... this is how you get your kicks. What fun would it be to be agreeable?
You'd get bored... and we can't have that!
Patience is, indeed a virtue. Just not on a message board, I suppose.
RE: Not that bw needs any help whatsoever, but you all sound ridiculous Â
how much back and forth there is about what constitutes a fan, I still can't understand what prompts there to be criticism of a TD pass by a rookie in a preseason game.
Not even that it exists, but how a pass thrown to a spot where the defender never even looks back to defend is somehow twisted to make it seem like a seasoned pro not only breaks up the pass, but likely intercepts it
You have to question the motivation behind the criticism. That isn't being a homer. It is being rational. Something that the "realists" continually miss.
Does it really impact anything?
Do you think Jints Central is paying attention and making decisions based on his analysis?
Do you think games are won or lost in the media?
If you don't like CC, the best thing you can do to make him go away is not pay attention to him. This constant bellyaching about the media is tiresome.
There are unlimited options for content out there, listen to the guys you think are informative and entertaining and ignore the rest.
Its funny how I told you there were certain posters who are besties and always appear to post in the same thread and support one another..... and as I said that... bw, googs, and ron posted within minutes of each other. Now ron is saying "jints central". It isnt coincidental.
I wonder sometimes if we have posters who are on the lines of mmiller/sg0058?
Oncce we start using each others phrases, then you can make fun of us. Again, it took MINUTES for all to respond to my initial statement to back each other up. Shocking, right?
I joked there was a bat signal between certain posters to show up when other certain posters posted.
Now, those certain posters are accusing the other certain posters of deploying their tactics.
Oh, the sweet irony...
Thats only because it made no sense back then as it does now. No one follows each other around and agrees with them and uses their sayings like the three stooges.
I know its bad form to go all open kimono, but if you think I didn't explicitly use that term knowing the reaction it would get you aren't paying attention.
A. If you watch the clip, Carter was very praise worthy of Jones’s performance last Thursday.
B. Carter said he’s willing to wipe the slate clean and now just evaluate Jones as a pro, and table his view of him as a prospect at Duke.
C. In order to confirm A and B, you need to watch the clip.
D. In order to watch the clip to get to A and B, you need to hover over the clip and left click on your mouse.
E. Always happy to help.
I know its bad form to go all open kimono, but if you think I didn't explicitly use that term knowing the reaction it would get you aren't paying attention.
Just having some fun with the tribalism on here
So if thats the case, my statement if you three following and backing up each other is true since you all responded within minutes? I mean how predictable was that?
Chris Carter called Dave Gettleman a racist for taking Daniel Jones over Haskins. Period. Point blank.
I don't care who you are, when you have a platform to reach a mass audience like Chris Carter does, that accusation is clearly irresponsible AT BEST.
Now he's going to double down on his agenda and slam the kid at every turn to continue to beat that drum?
The Giants organization, and fans, should be irate over this. Defending this creep in any way is unfathomable to me.
I'm not defending CC. I'm advocating ignoring him. Its the only real way to silence him. Giving him a bunch of extra clicks by linking his segment and complaining on an online forum isn't going to accomplish your goal.
A. If you watch the clip, Carter was very praise worthy of Jones’s performance last Thursday.
B. Carter said he’s willing to wipe the slate clean and now just evaluate Jones as a pro, and table his view of him as a prospect at Duke.
C. In order to confirm A and B, you need to watch the clip.
D. In order to watch the clip to get to A and B, you need to hover over the clip and left click on your mouse.
E. Always happy to help.
1. LOL, except for the "but it should have been intercepted". I mean its like the whole dinner experience was great, except the steak was overcooked.
2. Carter's willing to wipe the slate clean unless there is an example to create controversy on an innocent play to make his initial statement right. I mean he made excuses for Haskins and nitpicked Jones, hmmmm...
3. I did watch it.
I mean this nimrod called the Giants and DG racist. And we are going to listen to his nonsense view on a perfectly thrown ball for a TD.
And before you start huffing and puffing again. Any other "analyst" is over analyzing it too.
I know its bad form to go all open kimono, but if you think I didn't explicitly use that term knowing the reaction it would get you aren't paying attention.
Just having some fun with the tribalism on here
So if thats the case, my statement if you three following and backing up each other is true since you all responded within minutes? I mean how predictable was that?
Just as predicable as you, FMIC and Arc backing up the other side within minutes.
Just as predicable as you, FMIC and Arc backing up the other side within minutes.
You do realize Arc and I disagreed all last year on the Giants, Beckham, and everything in between? You know FMiC use to call me out for things I said for years?
See you are just throwing shit to the wind because you got called out and the reality set in. I dont follow FMiC and Arc on every thread. I dont agree with them on everything. But since we appear on this thread together, you figure it was smart of you to lump us together.
A. If you watch the clip, Carter was very praise worthy of Jones’s performance last Thursday.
B. Carter said he’s willing to wipe the slate clean and now just evaluate Jones as a pro, and table his view of him as a prospect at Duke.
C. In order to confirm A and B, you need to watch the clip.
D. In order to watch the clip to get to A and B, you need to hover over the clip and left click on your mouse.
E. Always happy to help.
I watched it, and addressed it in my first post on this thread. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, didn't intercept it.
Chris Carter will say: Daniel Jones "stared it down". The safety "should" have been wider. Two "could" have intercepted it. A starter "would" have intercepted it. The two guys there "didn't" make the play.
I say: Daniel Jones recognized the coverage, saw the safety lined up inside, recognized that it was open, and made the throw.
As I said in my first post, the whole story is the guy got beat. That's all there is to it. It happens every week in football on every level. You play against who you play against. Who's to say that if the starter was in there and was lined up wider that Daniel Jones wouldn't have looked elsewhere?
Framing the context of what you're saying is important and can go positive, negative, or neutral.
You add in Chris Carter's prior commentary that he now wants to just "dismiss" (calling an entire organization racist is a pretty strong statement to just dismiss), and you get a disingenuous asshole.
You post to bait. bw does as well and at least he admits it (and thankfully disappears completely when the team does well)
Googs - he's just a useless fuckstick whose SOLE purpose of posting here is to troll and bait too.
And when the team starts doing well again - all of your motivation to post disappears.
I've been doing this Giants message board thing for a long time, starting back on Giants.com before finding this place. I've posted regularly through the ups and downs and will probably continue to do so.
I will both praise and criticize the the team as I see fit (in between making snarky comments to amuse myself)
Fats doesn't like anybody that tends to get the better of him Â
I used to watch Giants games and get pissed at Buck and Aikman trashing the Giants in games we were playing the Cowboys or Eagles. Now? Couldn't care less at all. Its the business, their opinion doesn't matter to me. As much as we think these guys are paid for their expert opinion I'd challenge that and say they are paid to use their knowledge for entertainment purposes.
I used to watch Giants games and get pissed at Buck and Aikman trashing the Giants in games we were playing the Cowboys or Eagles. Now? Couldn't care less at all. Its the business, their opinion doesn't matter to me. As much as we think these guys are paid for their expert opinion I'd challenge that and say they are paid to use their knowledge for entertainment purposes.
I agree, this is much ado about nothing.
However, his statement on the Giants being racist as an organization, in this climate, should be a fireable offense, IMO. There should be no tolerance for such statements with nothing to back them up.
I thought Daniel Jones looked good on the drive, his TD pass Â
And, of course, the prideful group on BBI that simply will not stand for anyone talking bad about Jones, or even good or neutral it seems.
I don't expect you to grasp the discussion. It revolves around not talking bad about Jones, but why a successful TD pass is being dissected. It is like Carter is bucking for a position with PFF on trying to ascertain blame on a successful play.
And, of course, the prideful group on BBI that simply will not stand for anyone talking bad about Jones, or even good or neutral it seems.
I don't expect you to grasp the discussion. It revolves around not talking bad about Jones, but why a successful TD pass is being dissected. It is like Carter is bucking for a position with PFF on trying to ascertain blame on a successful play.
Yeah, like its so complex to keep up with your rants.
I'm sure nobody else with bother you with their comments after the next game...
he started off just fine in that video but he just couldn't help himself. If that was Mahomes making that exact same throw he'd be gushing.
It took all of 1 minute for me to find a video that probably enraged the Chief fanbase (assumning they're similarly sensitive): https://www.foxsports.com/watch/first-things-first/video/1375780931869
You actually have it backwards. It's much easier to play "your role". To be deferential and trust nearly everything this organization does.
I really struggle why more people don't actually have more curiosity the other way and ask, "Gee, does that really make sense here? Does that idea really fit?" Are they really looking at league trends? Are they studying how other rosters are assembled? Are the right mix of decision makers in place. Etc. You get the drill...
I have that curiosity (I do risk management for a living, so I have to always think about the downside...). And having been a fan for so long, and having a fairly good understanding of this team's history, I am much less trusting of the characters who run this organization.
Look, we all have our perspectives and history with the team. So that's where these splits likely occur.
I guess I have this history as being "negative" and people get pissed off when I start to raise doubt.
Like this Jones TD thing. I have mentioned several times prior, that I came away very impressed with his performance. But I listened to some other opinions, felt they were compelling (specifically about the TD pass), and decided to inject them into the conversation. Instead of listening, and giving the thought consideration, the usual suspects do what they do - default to their silly preconceived notions and miss the point(s)...Then this cacophony builds and the fun really starts... ;)
Hey, if you prefer the "BigBlueMonolithic" model, you're certainly not alone. There are a lot here that like wrapping themselves in that same echo chamber. I just don't and will continue to fill the responsibilities of my unpaid "role"... ;)
But if you try to explain why an INT or pass may not be Eli's - holy shit. You get called a member of EFC (bw's famous phrase), you are just making excuses for him, it's never Eli's fault, etc.... Even if a HOF says it wasnt his fault - you cant point that out without being ridiculed.
But I guess the "objective" posters are the ones who just pick and choose whats worth arguing over, I guess?
This is getting like a circular error in Excel.
When I realized the civil rights crowd objected, I added other people who concluded the same thing as Carter. But they were summarily dismissed because they weren't interesting enough, or easy to attack - like Carter...
We're not dealing with extraterrestrial life or highly secretive material here - it's a football team. They make some decisions that make sense, they make some that don't.
You seem to be predisposed to assume every decision they make is the wrong one. Is it really that hard to just question everything a team does?
Skepticism takes little effort. Ask why and ask why again.
I also don't defer to everything the Giants do. I've been plenty critical when I've felt criticism was warranted. Read posts of mine from the 2017 season if you'd like. I was killing them and was crushing Reese's drafts after zero-yield after zero-yield.
I think the misconception or disconnect comes in that I don't like to go overboard with spur of the moment, instant reactions to things. I don't just assume a move is bad because it appears to be on the surface. I'll admit it may well be one - but in many cases, there's just no way to know that in that moment.
I was vocally opposed to drafting Daniel Jones at 6 because the sense I got was that we'd have been able to take him @ 17.
Well, as it turned out - based on several reports, that likely was not the case.
Rather than throw an absolute FIT over taking him @ 6, I gave it a minute to breathe and play out and was wiling to hear the reasoning behind it and give him a chance to play before burying him.
Was it the choice I'd have made there? At the time, honestly no. But that's why I'm sitting here and not in an NFL front office.
I get it... this is how you get your kicks. What fun would it be to be agreeable?
You'd get bored... and we can't have that!
Patience is, indeed a virtue. Just not on a message board, I suppose.
For the weaker posters throwing stones its par for the course, but for some of the better ones its disappointing
posting this again in case the speech writers on the BBI circuit missed it the first time...
Quote:
what Carter said?
It was incorrect and agenda driven. Other than that, nothing.
I don't think football is for you, sir.
Not even that it exists, but how a pass thrown to a spot where the defender never even looks back to defend is somehow twisted to make it seem like a seasoned pro not only breaks up the pass, but likely intercepts it
You have to question the motivation behind the criticism. That isn't being a homer. It is being rational. Something that the "realists" continually miss.
Does it really impact anything?
Do you think Jints Central is paying attention and making decisions based on his analysis?
Do you think games are won or lost in the media?
If you don't like CC, the best thing you can do to make him go away is not pay attention to him. This constant bellyaching about the media is tiresome.
There are unlimited options for content out there, listen to the guys you think are informative and entertaining and ignore the rest.
Fuck me...
Fuck me...
Its funny how I told you there were certain posters who are besties and always appear to post in the same thread and support one another..... and as I said that... bw, googs, and ron posted within minutes of each other. Now ron is saying "jints central". It isnt coincidental.
I wonder sometimes if we have posters who are on the lines of mmiller/sg0058?
Of course it will be or when OBJ does something great and written about.
and
Sinker
I don't care who you are, when you have a platform to reach a mass audience like Chris Carter does, that accusation is clearly irresponsible AT BEST.
Now he's going to double down on his agenda and slam the kid at every turn to continue to beat that drum?
The Giants organization, and fans, should be irate over this. Defending this creep in any way is unfathomable to me.
Now, those certain posters are accusing the other certain posters of deploying their tactics.
Oh, the sweet irony...
I've got two posts on this thread and neither of them are addressing your circle jerk.
Oncce we start using each others phrases, then you can make fun of us. Again, it took MINUTES for all to respond to my initial statement to back each other up. Shocking, right?
Now, those certain posters are accusing the other certain posters of deploying their tactics.
Oh, the sweet irony...
Thats only because it made no sense back then as it does now. No one follows each other around and agrees with them and uses their sayings like the three stooges.
I know its bad form to go all open kimono, but if you think I didn't explicitly use that term knowing the reaction it would get you aren't paying attention.
Just having some fun with the tribalism on here
Sure thing.
A. If you watch the clip, Carter was very praise worthy of Jones’s performance last Thursday.
B. Carter said he’s willing to wipe the slate clean and now just evaluate Jones as a pro, and table his view of him as a prospect at Duke.
C. In order to confirm A and B, you need to watch the clip.
D. In order to watch the clip to get to A and B, you need to hover over the clip and left click on your mouse.
E. Always happy to help.
Quote:
Like I said.... three stooges.
I know its bad form to go all open kimono, but if you think I didn't explicitly use that term knowing the reaction it would get you aren't paying attention.
Just having some fun with the tribalism on here
So if thats the case, my statement if you three following and backing up each other is true since you all responded within minutes? I mean how predictable was that?
I don't care who you are, when you have a platform to reach a mass audience like Chris Carter does, that accusation is clearly irresponsible AT BEST.
Now he's going to double down on his agenda and slam the kid at every turn to continue to beat that drum?
The Giants organization, and fans, should be irate over this. Defending this creep in any way is unfathomable to me.
I'm not defending CC. I'm advocating ignoring him. Its the only real way to silence him. Giving him a bunch of extra clicks by linking his segment and complaining on an online forum isn't going to accomplish your goal.
Sure thing.
A. If you watch the clip, Carter was very praise worthy of Jones’s performance last Thursday.
B. Carter said he’s willing to wipe the slate clean and now just evaluate Jones as a pro, and table his view of him as a prospect at Duke.
C. In order to confirm A and B, you need to watch the clip.
D. In order to watch the clip to get to A and B, you need to hover over the clip and left click on your mouse.
E. Always happy to help.
1. LOL, except for the "but it should have been intercepted". I mean its like the whole dinner experience was great, except the steak was overcooked.
2. Carter's willing to wipe the slate clean unless there is an example to create controversy on an innocent play to make his initial statement right. I mean he made excuses for Haskins and nitpicked Jones, hmmmm...
3. I did watch it.
I mean this nimrod called the Giants and DG racist. And we are going to listen to his nonsense view on a perfectly thrown ball for a TD.
And before you start huffing and puffing again. Any other "analyst" is over analyzing it too.
Quote:
In comment 14529912 dep026 said:
Quote:
Like I said.... three stooges.
I know its bad form to go all open kimono, but if you think I didn't explicitly use that term knowing the reaction it would get you aren't paying attention.
Just having some fun with the tribalism on here
So if thats the case, my statement if you three following and backing up each other is true since you all responded within minutes? I mean how predictable was that?
Just as predicable as you, FMIC and Arc backing up the other side within minutes.
and
Sinker
And there it is in a nutshell.
You post to bait. bw does as well and at least he admits it (and thankfully disappears completely when the team does well)
Googs - he's just a useless fuckstick whose SOLE purpose of posting here is to troll and bait too.
And when the team starts doing well again - all of your motivation to post disappears.
Just as predicable as you, FMIC and Arc backing up the other side within minutes.
You do realize Arc and I disagreed all last year on the Giants, Beckham, and everything in between? You know FMiC use to call me out for things I said for years?
See you are just throwing shit to the wind because you got called out and the reality set in. I dont follow FMiC and Arc on every thread. I dont agree with them on everything. But since we appear on this thread together, you figure it was smart of you to lump us together.
Guess what, it didnt work.
It's just cringey enough as it is... we probably don't need any additional usage of it here in any context.
Quote:
.
Sure thing.
A. If you watch the clip, Carter was very praise worthy of Jones’s performance last Thursday.
B. Carter said he’s willing to wipe the slate clean and now just evaluate Jones as a pro, and table his view of him as a prospect at Duke.
C. In order to confirm A and B, you need to watch the clip.
D. In order to watch the clip to get to A and B, you need to hover over the clip and left click on your mouse.
E. Always happy to help.
I watched it, and addressed it in my first post on this thread. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, didn't intercept it.
Chris Carter will say: Daniel Jones "stared it down". The safety "should" have been wider. Two "could" have intercepted it. A starter "would" have intercepted it. The two guys there "didn't" make the play.
I say: Daniel Jones recognized the coverage, saw the safety lined up inside, recognized that it was open, and made the throw.
As I said in my first post, the whole story is the guy got beat. That's all there is to it. It happens every week in football on every level. You play against who you play against. Who's to say that if the starter was in there and was lined up wider that Daniel Jones wouldn't have looked elsewhere?
Framing the context of what you're saying is important and can go positive, negative, or neutral.
You add in Chris Carter's prior commentary that he now wants to just "dismiss" (calling an entire organization racist is a pretty strong statement to just dismiss), and you get a disingenuous asshole.
I called you out last week for smearing the good name of Dabo Swinney!
I also call out any praise for Michigan!
Quote:
Line
and
Sinker
And there it is in a nutshell.
You post to bait. bw does as well and at least he admits it (and thankfully disappears completely when the team does well)
Googs - he's just a useless fuckstick whose SOLE purpose of posting here is to troll and bait too.
And when the team starts doing well again - all of your motivation to post disappears.
I've been doing this Giants message board thing for a long time, starting back on Giants.com before finding this place. I've posted regularly through the ups and downs and will probably continue to do so.
I will both praise and criticize the the team as I see fit (in between making snarky comments to amuse myself)
His opinion doesn't matter whether its for or against the Giants. I couldn't care less how he feels.
I agree, this is much ado about nothing.
However, his statement on the Giants being racist as an organization, in this climate, should be a fireable offense, IMO. There should be no tolerance for such statements with nothing to back them up.
Look forward to seeing Jones more than just one series this next preseason game.
And, of course, the prideful group on BBI that simply will not stand for anyone talking bad about Jones, or even good or neutral it seems...
I don't expect you to grasp the discussion. It revolves around not talking bad about Jones, but why a successful TD pass is being dissected. It is like Carter is bucking for a position with PFF on trying to ascertain blame on a successful play.
Quote:
might be looking too strongly at Jones staring down his receiver. That was a precise pass to the pylon in a small window.
Or was he staring at Ellison?
Great pass regardless.
Pinpoint precision has to qualify as a "plus-skill," no?<sarcasm~>
I can't say for certain, but the camera they had focused on Jones it looked like his eyes did not deviate once.
Quote:
And, of course, the prideful group on BBI that simply will not stand for anyone talking bad about Jones, or even good or neutral it seems.
I don't expect you to grasp the discussion. It revolves around not talking bad about Jones, but why a successful TD pass is being dissected. It is like Carter is bucking for a position with PFF on trying to ascertain blame on a successful play.
Yeah, like its so complex to keep up with your rants.
I'm sure nobody else with bother you with their comments after the next game...
It took all of 1 minute for me to find a video that probably enraged the Chief fanbase (assumning they're similarly sensitive): https://www.foxsports.com/watch/first-things-first/video/1375780931869