- Josh Rosen vs Davis Webb vs Sam Darnold -

What’s the point? I guess I don’t get it

In general, the Dolphins offense doesn't look very good in those clips, and didn't do a very good job of pass protection. Rosen looks to me like he's still learning the offense. Might look a lot better later.

MacAdoo was a disaster, but in trying to save his job e was right to go with Geno over Webb

Also if true he was overruled in wanting to move up fo Mahomes , he was correct there too

like if Jabrill makes that play.

In comment 14526373 Zeke's Alibi said:

Quote:

like if Jabrill makes that play.

There was a thunderstorm where I was and the entire Jets drive was not recorded so I didn't see it but I am still pissed about it after listening to WFAN yesterday.

Webb, and Darnold? We all know what Darnold and Webb did. We watched the game.

Was a late 3rd round pick. Darnold went 3rd and Rosen 10th. Why are you comparing them?

Because the OP is a Rosen fanboy and this was his way of inserting him into a convo.

In comment 14526373 Zeke's Alibi said:

Quote:

like if Jabrill makes that play.

He did make the play. He leaped through the air, full extension, and did a nice job knocking the ball away as he fell towards the sideline. It was a good play by a good player

Yes it was a nice jump, but it was a routine catch and he would have scored more than likely. Jesus dude, Darnolds future does not look bright if you have to rewrite history for him. If it wasn't the first pass of 2019 and I was a Jets fan I'd be concerned, still making the same type of mistakes.

It was a great max effort play. But 90% of the time these are not picks. If they were you'd see pretty much every QB throw about 3 int's a game

I don't know what exactly happened to Rosen in Arizona. It was a humbling experience that's for sure. He was brutalized behind that line last year. The team was bereft of talent. But he is starting to come around in Miami. There were serious questions about his demeanor, commitment, and his ability to withstand NFL punishment...but when it comes to QB fundamentals the guy was about as smooth and polished as they come. His career has had something of a bizarre start to it, but I still think he'll end up a pretty good QB

easy another foot. He squeezed the football and dropped it. Peppers read his eyes right off the snap, telegraphed it.

With vanilla defenses.

In comment 14526418 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

It was a great max effort play. But 90% of the time these are not picks. If they were you'd see pretty much every QB throw about 3 int's a game

You can't just take a screenshot like that that doesn't tell anywhere near the actual story of what happened or throw out a stat you made up like 90% of the time it's not a pick. Darnold misread the defense. The ball went right through Peppers' hands. That doesn't happen to every qb 3x per game. At least not the good ones...



Interesting screenshot you chose to take since this is the actual moment where the ball literally goes right through his hands.

In comment 14526425 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 14526418 fanofthejets said: Quote: It was a great max effort play. But 90% of the time these are not picks. If they were you'd see pretty much every QB throw about 3 int's a game You can't just take a screenshot like that that doesn't tell anywhere near the actual story of what happened or throw out a stat you made up like 90% of the time it's not a pick. Darnold misread the defense. The ball went right through Peppers' hands. That doesn't happen to every qb 3x per game. At least not the good ones... Interesting screenshot you chose to take since this is the actual moment where the ball literally goes right through his hands.

Yes it does. As they say and have said forever...if he could catch it he'd be a receiver

I'm taking nothing away from the great play Peppers makes. But generally you don't see many great diving fingertip INT's as that would have been. That is a very hard INT to make for secondary personnel. I think your own biases want to believe this was thrown between his numbers. It wasn't

that play all the time, they are the ones generally in the position to make that play.

should have made that one.

In comment 14526437 Zeke's Alibi said:

Quote:

that play all the time, they are the ones generally in the position to make that play.

No that's incorrect. Generally guys flying horizontally like that full extension who are not receivers and just get their fingertips on the football will not be hauling it in. Nothing routine about it

live in NY anymore, but I definitely am now. Fingertip catch? What, do we see reality differently.

In comment 14526444 Zeke's Alibi said:

Quote:

live in NY anymore, but I definitely am now. Fingertip catch? What, do we see reality differently.

We'll just agree to disagree.

Even if he holds on to it in the air he has to hold on to while landing on the ground.

No way he returns it for a TD.

In comment 14526442 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

In comment 14526437 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: that play all the time, they are the ones generally in the position to make that play. No that's incorrect. Generally guys flying horizontally like that full extension who are not receivers and just get their fingertips on the football will not be hauling it in. Nothing routine about it

God you’re pathetic, Darnold made a poor decision and Peppers should have made that interception. Trying to then throw out these made up stats to defend Darnold is sad. Once again why are you here?

He hasn’t improved at all despite entering his 3rd season along with all his collegiate experience. Honestly I think he will be out of the NFL after the jets cut him to get down to 53. I think the last we see of him will be in the XFL.

I think Rosen looked pretty good and we have to remember that he’s only 22 years old and he doesn’t turn 23 until February. Miami’s offensive line is a mess so he will have his work cut out for him.

I've been a card carrying member of the Darnold FC since he arrived at SC. And I would have been pleased if we snatched him last year over Barkley.

But I was disappointed Thursday night with Darnold's footwork and balance. He seemed to be arming the ball too much and not really stepping into it and letting it rip. Sensed some mild happy feet as well.

Now, Darnold is talented enough to get away with some of that. But not talented enough to do it consistently, like an Aaron Rodgers. So I think Gase and Loggains have more to do with this prodigy.

Many here start to tell us how it was bad coaching, bad routes, bad oline. But Darnold is trash and Peppers exposed him? WOW

offensive line protection in Arizona was worse than in Miami. It seemed as if Rosen got zero time to set up and throw against the Falcons first string defensive line. That said, I liked Rosen's quick release and his velocity and accuracy. With a decent offensive line, he could do some damage.

... I like Miami’s “buy low” strategy. Of all the possible uses of the 62nd pick, Rosen certainly adds the most interest to the Dolphins’ season, and he probably offers the most upside potential. The downside is negligible.

In comment 14526535 GeofromNJ said:

Quote:

offensive line protection in Arizona was worse than in Miami. It seemed as if Rosen got zero time to set up and throw against the Falcons first string defensive line. That said, I liked Rosen's quick release and his velocity and accuracy. With a decent offensive line, he could do some damage.

That Zona OL was bad. But they will look better this year because of Murray's out-of-this world athleticism.

The Seattle OL in 2017 was arguably the worst I have ever seen. If Wilson wasn't Wilson, with his brilliant mobility, he's slowly being put back together by an Ortho surgeon somewhere...

It was good for Rosen to get out of AZ. But I'm not sure if Miami, aside from the weather, is a better place - yet.

INTs in the game, instead of one. The balloon that he threw when he was about to be sacked that somehow was completed was an unconscionable throw for a pro QB to be making.

I find it interesting that people here made the point that Jones wasn't playing against the Jets #1 (a combination of #1s and #2s) and yet Josh Rosen played the 2nd and 3rd quarter - so who was he playing against? The never-ending love for this guy (who is second string to Fitzpatrick?) is remarkable.

He has a great arm. Doesn't necessarily make him a great QB

for Rosen. That was a nightmare he could not wake from. A first year head coach that was fired, 2 OCs, and 19 different offensive linemen due to poor play and injury. He got his bell rung in a bad situation. Obviously, Miami is looking at the 2020 class of QBs and Rosen, possibly, might either be the bridge in 2020 or the backup.

Webb is bad. Let's move on.

And Darnold will be fine. He's shown he has the tools to succeed. Let's see if they can put the proper pieces around him and the coaching to move forward.

In comment 14526524 Junior22 said:

Quote:

Many here start to tell us how it was bad coaching, bad routes, bad oline. But Darnold is trash and Peppers exposed him? WOW

He only threw around 10 last year. Played all season, did not go down with a phantom injury.

love Rosen.

In comment 14526573 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:

Quote:

INTs in the game, instead of one. The balloon that he threw when he was about to be sacked that somehow was completed was an unconscionable throw for a pro QB to be making. I find it interesting that people here made the point that Jones wasn't playing against the Jets #1 (a combination of #1s and #2s) and yet Josh Rosen played the 2nd and 3rd quarter - so who was he playing against? The never-ending love for this guy (who is second string to Fitzpatrick?) is remarkable. He has a great arm. Doesn't necessarily make him a great QB

That throw was terrible, almost as bad as Dick Stockton talking about his great decision making and presence of mind. It was like the guy was related to him or something. He looked okay, but you'd think he was talking about Peyton Manning the way the guy was going on.

Now to be fair, nobody aside from the OP would call this analytics, but to think you can glean anything meaningful from QB stats in a preseason game is just laughable.

Better OP would have been “I like Josh Rosen because I do.”

Rosen has been dealt a very shitty hand. Played for the worst team in the NFL last year and quite possibly this year.

As basically everyone here has said, Jones very well may force his way onto the field this year, instead of opening week 2020.

In comment 14526694 dep026 said:

Quote:

Rosen has been dealt a very shitty hand. Played for the worst team in the NFL last year and quite possibly this year.

Dep I completely agree with you, his start to the NFL has not been fun.

In comment 14526576 anon837 said:

Quote:

for Rosen. That was a nightmare he could not wake from. A first year head coach that was fired, 2 OCs, and 19 different offensive linemen due to poor play and injury. He got his bell rung in a bad situation. Obviously, Miami is looking at the 2020 class of QBs and Rosen, possibly, might either be the bridge in 2020 or the backup. Webb is bad. Let's move on. And Darnold will be fine. He's shown he has the tools to succeed. Let's see if they can put the proper pieces around him and the coaching to move forward.

Last 4 games of the year he was the NFL's highest rated QB. And one of those games he re-injured his foot and played hurt. His mobility was somewhat hampered by it but still...highest rated QB in the NFL last 4 weeks for a 21 year old rookie is impressive

Peppers made a nice play, it was full stretch dive to knock away a pass. Rarely is that ball caught by anybody on D.

.

In comment 14526489 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 14526442 fanofthejets said: Quote: In comment 14526437 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: that play all the time, they are the ones generally in the position to make that play. No that's incorrect. Generally guys flying horizontally like that full extension who are not receivers and just get their fingertips on the football will not be hauling it in. Nothing routine about it God you’re pathetic, Darnold made a poor decision and Peppers should have made that interception. Trying to then throw out these made up stats to defend Darnold is sad. Once again why are you here?

This is the first time I've seen such a desperation dive for a football be a "should've been intercepted" though when it's Darnold I think you get blinded by hatred. I conceded Peppers made a nice play to knock the football away, but since when do we hold corners and safeties to the standard that everything they do full extension horizontal dives for needs to be a pick?

He either didn’t see the safety, or misjudged how quickly he could undercut the route. The interception would have been a difficult catch, but certainly not a full out, diving catch.

QBs make mistakes and that includes Darnold. It was a bad throw and he was lucky it wasn’t picked. Any other explanation sounds like the folks here who would explain that only 2 of Eli’s 20 interceptions in a season were really his fault.

Even good QBs make mistakes. It’s ok to admit it was a mistake.

of ONE PRESEASON GAME.

This is an asinine, worthless exercise worthy of ridicule.

It's nonsensical, it's pointless, absolutely ZERO useful information can be gleaned from this. ZERO. NOTHING.

Preseason results are MEANINGLESS. Trying to analyze stats of such games is pointless.

I don't mean to drive the point home, but, once again, this thread is akin to trying to find the meaning of life in the shapes of clouds.

Honestly. Give it a full season at minimum.

I said it before, I'll say it again: Davis Webb is going to haunt this franchise for the next decade+. Book it.

But what did we lose out on drafting Webb?

In comment 14526857 Coach Red Beaulieu said:

Quote:

But what did we lose out on drafting Webb?

A lot of good players. Kenny Golladay probably stands out the most. But Jourdan Lewis, Tarik Cohen, Eddie Jackson, James Conner, Dede Westbrook, Samson Ebukam are all players that were drafted between Webb and the Giants 4th rounder that would've been better picks.

In comment 14526950 allstarjim said:

Quote:

In comment 14526857 Coach Red Beaulieu said: Quote: But what did we lose out on drafting Webb? A lot of good players. Kenny Golladay probably stands out the most. But Jourdan Lewis, Tarik Cohen, Eddie Jackson, James Conner, Dede Westbrook, Samson Ebukam are all players that were drafted between Webb and the Giants 4th rounder that would've been better picks.

Marlon Mack, too. I know we took Gallman, but I think Mack's future is much more bullish at this point...

In comment 14526950 allstarjim said:

Quote:

In comment 14526857 Coach Red Beaulieu said: Quote: But what did we lose out on drafting Webb? A lot of good players. Kenny Golladay probably stands out the most. But Jourdan Lewis, Tarik Cohen, Eddie Jackson, James Conner, Dede Westbrook, Samson Ebukam are all players that were drafted between Webb and the Giants 4th rounder that would've been better picks.

Webb didn't work out. Lots of draft picks don't work out. You can always find a guy taken later, or not taken at all, who worked out better for someone else. The draft is a crapshoot. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.

QB is a particularly hard position to draft. If you need a QB, you have to expect to draft a bunch of them before you find one who becomes a quality starter. First-round QBs bust a lot, too. So while we all want to bemoan the "wasted" picks, that's really just part of the QB search. At least the Giants have only used one first-rounder on a QB recently and that kid looks like a keeper. But he could very well bust, too.

You race to the podium to grab Peyton Manning, the next guy thinks he's lucky to get Ryan Leaf, and a couple of days later someone gets Matt Hasselbeck in the 6th, long after Scott Frost, Jonathan Quinn and John Dutton were taken. Like I said, it's a crapshoot.

Webb is one of a long line of developmental QBs who didn't pan out for the Giants. Lauletta may not pan out. Hell, Jones still may not pan out. None of that means the draft picks were a mistake, or that the Giants suck at drafting QBs. It's more accurate to say that everyone sucks at drafting QBs. You just keep looking for prospects and moving forward.

In comment 14526524 Junior22 said:

Quote:

Many here start to tell us how it was bad coaching, bad routes, bad oline. But Darnold is trash and Peppers exposed him? WOW

Dupe says what??

I'm just thankful we've moved on from him

In comment 14527120 RenierWolfcastle said:

Quote:

I'm just thankful we've moved on from him

I’m just happy we moved on from the head of college scouting and GM who thought Webb was worthy of a day 2 pick.

Get help.

RESEARCH!!!!

In comment 14527227 Section331 said:

Quote:

Get help.

Odd comment and even stranger recall

stranger recall?

You have literally created dozens of threads about Webb, all with the idea you have research to back it up.

You are basically the only guy creating threads about Webb, even as he's no longer here.

You don't think people will recall this kind of special stupid?

In comment 14527280 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

stranger recall? You have literally created dozens of threads about Webb, all with the idea you have research to back it up. You are basically the only guy creating threads about Webb, even as he's no longer here. You don't think people will recall this kind of special stupid?

I am not sure if thsi works.... but a quick search of Davis Webb in the headlines produced 8 threads alone from sxdxca. There are probably more than didnt contain the words Davis Webb.
Sxdxca loved him some Webb. - ( New Window )

In comment 14526474 fanofthejets said:

Quote:

In comment 14526444 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: live in NY anymore, but I definitely am now. Fingertip catch? What, do we see reality differently. We'll just agree to disagree.

What would we have to agree to for you to go away?

In comment 14527276 sxdxca said:

Quote:

Odd comment and even stranger recall

You were the guy who regularly posted video of Webb throwing 5 yard completions to unguarded receivers and raving about his accuracy. Why ANYONE would start a post comparing to recent 1st round picks to a guy who will soon be on his 3rd team is beyond me.

81_Great_Dane said:

Quote:

Webb didn't work out. Lots of draft picks don't work out. You can always find a guy taken later, or not taken at all, who worked out better for someone else. The draft is a crapshoot. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. QB is a particularly hard position to draft. If you need a QB, you have to expect to draft a bunch of them before you find one who becomes a quality starter. First-round QBs bust a lot, too. So while we all want to bemoan the "wasted" picks, that's really just part of the QB search. At least the Giants have only used one first-rounder on a QB recently and that kid looks like a keeper. But he could very well bust, too. You race to the podium to grab Peyton Manning, the next guy thinks he's lucky to get Ryan Leaf, and a couple of days later someone gets Matt Hasselbeck in the 6th, long after Scott Frost, Jonathan Quinn and John Dutton were taken. Like I said, it's a crapshoot. Webb is one of a long line of developmental QBs who didn't pan out for the Giants. Lauletta may not pan out. Hell, Jones still may not pan out. None of that means the draft picks were a mistake, or that the Giants suck at drafting QBs. It's more accurate to say that everyone sucks at drafting QBs. You just keep looking for prospects and moving forward.

Great post, though Marc Ross was genuinely awful.