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NFT: The Fighting Gnats at Mets Game 3 BRRROOMS! Cy Young Winner

ZGiants98 : 8/11/2019 12:17 pm
Mets Lineup

Jeff McNeil (L) RF
Amed Rosario (R) SS
Michael Conforto (L) CF
Pete Alonso (R) 1B
J.D. Davis (R) LF
Wilson Ramos (R) C
Todd Frazier (R) 3B
Joe Panik (L) 2B
Jacob deGrom (L) P

Nationals Lineup

Trea Turner (R) SS
Adam Eaton (L) RF
Anthony Rendon (R) 3B
Juan Soto (L) LF
Matt Adams (L) 1B
Asdrubal Cabrera (S) 2B
Gerardo Parra (L) CF
Kurt Suzuki (R) C
Anibal Sanchez (R) P

LFGM!!!
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Lmao  
Eli owns all : 8/11/2019 4:00 pm : link
What are they doing
Bad umping & bad managing...  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 4:00 pm : link
we takes it

JD lets gooooooo
No  
Eli owns all : 8/11/2019 4:04 pm : link
Way. Not called all game
That was ball 4  
KDubbs : 8/11/2019 4:05 pm : link
Eat a dick ump
50/50 pitch  
Metnut : 8/11/2019 4:05 pm : link
didnít go our way.
RE: Did you want  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:07 pm : link
In comment 14526923 KDubbs said:
Quote:
Familia in with bases loaded?


Once Gsellman put 2 on with less than 2 out they were likely getting a run. But yes I would have went to Familia over Wilson. Mickey went with a lefty because the next 2 hitters were lefties Soto, Allen, but left himself with a bad matchup vs. a clutch cabrera. When Familia is on the matchups don't matter and he was coming into this game at some point anyway, I would have given him the tough spot and saved Wilson to hopefully start the 8th clean. Familia and Wilson have both been bad this year and better lately, but we've seen Familia houdini literally dozens of times in big situations whereas we've seen Wilson do it once or twice maybe? In a game without Lugo we have to trust Familia (& Diaz) to turn things around, if they don't we aren't likely to go far.
Yeah I didn't think it egregious  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 4:07 pm : link
would have been nice to get that call obv

But Mr RISP is up fwiw
bad luck for Ramos but love having a low-K guys take good ab's  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:13 pm : link
and work a pitcher until they can make hard contact. Makes life so much harder on these middle relievers in big spots to not get easy K's. Ramos, McNeil, Panik, lately Rosario, obviously Conforto/Alonso/Davis are never easy at bats. They make these RP's work.
Alright  
Eli owns all : 8/11/2019 4:18 pm : link
Here we go boys
Who the F was that on the mound?  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 4:18 pm : link
!!!
can someone tell familia to never throw quick pitches ever again  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:20 pm : link
just throw it like that from the stretch. If Frazier and Panik make outs right away I'd consider letting him bat and come back out in the 9th.
RE: Who the F was that on the mound?  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14526953 ChaChing said:
Quote:
!!!


Familia is the closest we've ever had to a guy who rises to the occasion and gets better in big spots. Every reliever gets beat once in a while, not very many have locked down 6 out saves on the road in the playoffs.
Shit, if you're PHing w/ Altherr  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 4:23 pm : link
might as well have Familia hit even if guys are on...
RE: Shit, if you're PHing w/ Altherr  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:24 pm : link
In comment 14526957 ChaChing said:
Quote:
might as well have Familia hit even if guys are on...


exactly - unless Panik gets on there is minimal reason to PH here. If Mickey hadn't used his entire BP already it would be a different story, but he has, so...
Altherr  
Eli owns all : 8/11/2019 4:26 pm : link
What a fuckin bum.
Why not leave Familia in?  
Metnut : 8/11/2019 4:27 pm : link
If we tie this game and it goes to extras weíre going to be in an awful spot.
well that went as predicted  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:27 pm : link
Diaz vs. top of Nats lineup should be interesting. Would be nice to see him do what Familia just did and at least build up a little confidence.
Can someone please explain why Altherr is even on this team?  
PhiPsi125 : 8/11/2019 4:27 pm : link
Is there really nobody in the farm that can bat better than .075?
Altherr is fn useless  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 4:28 pm : link
he needs to be gone. Might as well have kept Gomez for his bat compared to this. Better off even PHing w/ almost any SP
RE: Why not leave Familia in?  
Ira : 8/11/2019 4:29 pm : link
In comment 14526961 Metnut said:
Quote:
If we tie this game and it goes to extras weíre going to be in an awful spot.


That would be the best move.
RE: Why not leave Familia in?  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 4:29 pm : link
In comment 14526961 Metnut said:
Quote:
If we tie this game and it goes to extras weíre going to be in an awful spot.

Mickey don't plan good. Or think good.
With everyone around us in the WC racing losing right now,  
PhiPsi125 : 8/11/2019 4:30 pm : link
it would be really nicer to get a win here. As much as Mickey does his best to thwart that.
RE: Why not leave Familia in?  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:30 pm : link
In comment 14526961 Metnut said:
Quote:
If we tie this game and it goes to extras weíre going to be in an awful spot.


Because Mickey literally can't stop himself from making the wrong decisions. If he was going to PH there, he would have been smarter to use Syndergaard or Matz or Stroman. Or burning Nido. All would have had a better shot at tying the game than Altherr - who should be cut.
RE: With everyone around us in the WC racing losing right now,  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14526968 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
it would be really nicer to get a win here. As much as Mickey does his best to thwart that.

Definitely. But like I said b4, this game would have been mostly solved if JDG hadn't flubbed that out at first, or at least better if they saved the 3rd run. Really crappy one to L, would be a new way for JDG to get a ND / L
its really aggravating that stupid decisions by Mickey could have cost  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:34 pm : link
this team 3 straight losses if not for amazing comebacks. If this is the only one that happens we'd still be coming out ahead, but it would be nice if he hadn't wasted Familia and Diaz until the last 2 innings of this series already behind as opposed to pumping both Gsellman and Wilson twice in 3 games with each giving up runs both times.
Diaz fucking blows.  
PhiPsi125 : 8/11/2019 4:36 pm : link
It ainít the juiced balls...he just blows.
Diaz  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 4:37 pm : link
really shoulda had Familia in fwiw. Not that he's some huge upgrade, but he was rolling. While Diaz in spite of getting close issued a walk again, then that...
RE: Diaz fucking blows.  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:38 pm : link
In comment 14526975 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
It ainít the juiced balls...he just blows.


Indeed he does. Going forward they need to just let the best guys pitch. Lugo obviously has earned the big spots whenever he is fresh and I wouldn't hesitate at all to give Familia some chances over Diaz. Diaz needs to earn his role - whatever that becomes.
As much as I want to make the playoffs, i really donít want to see  
PhiPsi125 : 8/11/2019 4:41 pm : link
Mickey in the dugout any longer. Iíd still probably take the playoffs but weíd be giving up a lot by having this loser in a Mets uniform for another (likely) losing season.

We played the same games with Terry Collins. Mickeys awfulness has made many people look back favorably at Terry Collins...not me. TC was another fucking awful manager.

Will this team ever get a capable manager? Probably not. Next buffoon up!
btw the Mets deserve some blame for how they've handled Diaz generally  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:44 pm : link
they've been overly sensitive to what his role is acting like he had the track record of Mariano Rivera when he had 1 great year in Seattle. He has never pitched in meaningful games and he had obviously never pitched in NY. Let the guy prove himself before putting him up on a pedestal.

Billy Wagner was a HOF closer who had pitched in the playoffs numerous times and he had some trouble adjusting here and had some big blown saves. Same with K-rod. Diaz is a 24 year old who has had 1 really good season.
Lugo is the only guy in the pen who is any good  
Vanzetti : 8/11/2019 4:44 pm : link
The rest of them pretty much blow.
RE: As much as I want to make the playoffs, i really donít want to see  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:46 pm : link
In comment 14526979 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
Mickey in the dugout any longer. Iíd still probably take the playoffs but weíd be giving up a lot by having this loser in a Mets uniform for another (likely) losing season.

We played the same games with Terry Collins. Mickeys awfulness has made many people look back favorably at Terry Collins...not me. TC was another fucking awful manager.

Will this team ever get a capable manager? Probably not. Next buffoon up!


Comparing Collins BP management to Callaway's is wildly unfair considering the 2 years he had decent players, he had good BP performances (15-16). In the '15 playoffs Collins was basically perfect in his BP usage. Has Callaway ever been good for more than 1 game in a row, let alone 10+ against top teams?
Always hate losing the DeGrom game  
Metnut : 8/11/2019 4:47 pm : link
and we let a little bit of an opportunity get away from us, but, letís be realistic, this team isnít going to win out.

Take 2/3 vs Atlanta and keep the momentum up.
Crappy one to L  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 4:49 pm : link
once again D bites them in the butt (among other poor mgmt decisions). 2 errors = 3 runs. Still had chances to come back, but JDG pitched another solid one and Mets still L
At least weíre getting some  
Metnut : 8/11/2019 4:52 pm : link
help on the scoreboard today
They won the series but the problems with this team remain clear  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 4:58 pm : link
1. inconsistent D cost them runs in 2 games (often due to guys playing out of position)
2. the BP gave Washington leads in all 3 games
3. and most depressing the manager still consistently makes mind-numbing decisions. Putting Stroman back out for the 7th in game 1 was such an obvious bad decision. Moving Conforto out of the 3 hole after his game winner was more than a little questionable. And today? Where to start? Letting Avilan face 2 righties and then having to burn Brach. Going back to Gsellman + Wilson in a tie game in the 7th after both gave up runs in g1. Taking Familia out after his most dominant 13 pitches of the year with very few options left in the pen if the game went extras. Wasting 1 of his last 4 outs in a 1 run game on Altherr.

Getting 2 wins in a series played pretty evenly is a fair result but they can't ignore the reality that there are consistent reasons they lose and if they aren't addressed they will continue to leave winnable games on the table.
Good post Eric, makes sense  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 5:17 pm : link
Also not that it was egregious on it's own, but IMO taking SP out JDG when rolling made it worse. And that is almost always a better choice than any RP. So unless he's gassed or it's a specific bad match-up, it shouldn't matter if he's AB the prior inning (esp w/ no RISP) or if lefties are coming up or it's about to be 3rd time around

And of course you need 3 fewer outs of playing BP. Even if they don't recognize MC's weaknesses there, the general rule should be to use your best pitcher / SP as long as he can go within reason. Same idea keeping Familia out for a 2nd inning in this specific case (and PHing w/ shitty Altherr, wtf?). The Mick could blindly err on keeping SPs (or any pitcher that's rolling) in longer and get immediate better results
D cost us today just have to keep winning series though  
Torrag : 8/11/2019 5:31 pm : link
Have to think we're due to get some relief on the i jury front at some point in this season. Dom, Lowrie, someone who can provide some depth or a spark when we may need it down the stretch.
Too Much Criticism  
Samiam : 8/11/2019 5:36 pm : link
Thereís no doubt that Calloway has made lots of stupid decisions. But, I would bet my house that if he kept Familia in for the 9th and he lost the game, the same posters would be blaming him for not taking him out. The bullpen is totally erratic and I donít think any manager would do much better with this group. Also, if Calloway canít use Diaz on a save situation and get away with it, I think the team has virtually no chance of making the playoffs. I donít blame them for using him. Last, while Atherr sucks, do you expect a manager to play one guy short? If heís on the roster, he needs to
be used. Or, replace him.
Taking Degrom out was the worst move  
Vanzetti : 8/11/2019 5:37 pm : link
The other stuff is more a reflection of Mets bad bullpen
RE: Too Much Criticism  
ChaChing : 8/11/2019 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14526999 Samiam said:
Quote:
Thereís no doubt that Calloway has made lots of stupid decisions. But, I would bet my house that if he kept Familia in for the 9th and he lost the game, the same posters would be blaming him for not taking him out. The bullpen is totally erratic and I donít think any manager would do much better with this group. Also, if Calloway canít use Diaz on a save situation and get away with it, I think the team has virtually no chance of making the playoffs. I donít blame them for using him. Last, while Atherr sucks, do you expect a manager to play one guy short? If heís on the roster, he needs to
be used. Or, replace him.

No I can't agree. JDG rolling, your best pitcher, but you feel the need to pull him when he has gas in the tank, esp given the BP issues? Familia, as erratic as he is, has a fantastic 1-2-3 8th nailing his pitches. But you replace him w/ equally erratic Diaz? Both are shaky game-to-game, so that's why you stick w/ the hot hand. Worst, when you DO keep a pitcher in it's your LOOGY against righties, who gets lit up again. Or Stro when he was clearly gassed

And if the AB was more the reason to pull Familia, your PHer better have a decent chance of getting on base for 1, and for 2 give you a better chance to win vs keeping your RP in another inning. Putting in .075 Altherr - worst hitter even compared to several pitchers - is that move? Worst move you could make. Hell iirc a few games ago he PH'd Guillorme for a pitcher...to have him bunt...in spite of the L-R matchup?

These decisions are awful and add up. Even if the biggest reason for today's loss was JDG / Ramos 1st inning errors, they could have been in better position to win. And really if it was just this game fine, but this has been all year even through the W streak. The Mick just hasn't been very good
RE: Too Much Criticism  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14526999 Samiam said:
Quote:
Thereís no doubt that Calloway has made lots of stupid decisions. But, I would bet my house that if he kept Familia in for the 9th and he lost the game, the same posters would be blaming him for not taking him out. The bullpen is totally erratic and I donít think any manager would do much better with this group. Also, if Calloway canít use Diaz on a save situation and get away with it, I think the team has virtually no chance of making the playoffs. I donít blame them for using him. Last, while Atherr sucks, do you expect a manager to play one guy short? If heís on the roster, he needs to
be used. Or, replace him.


There were other guys on the bench he could have used 1 of his last 4 outs on better than Altherr. Including pitchers. Just because you have a wrench in your toolbox you don't need to swing it at a nail.

And if squeezing a second inning out Familia started getting into trouble in the 9th he still had Diaz. If Diaz came in with 1 guy on it wouldn't be ideal but that's a situation your closer needs to be able to deal with in a game that could be headed for extras.

I don't blame Mickey for Diaz giving up a homer run or sucking as much as he has. I blame him for not managing well. If the game got tied in the 9th, then what? I'll tell you what because there is only 1 answer - Chris Mazza. In the span of 9 outs Mickey had used 6 of his 7 available relievers. That is poor managing.
Shoe on the other foot the Nats must feel  
xman : 8/11/2019 7:25 pm : link
cursed to blow two prior games with Met come from behind wins. Their fans must also be screaming at their BP
RE: Shoe on the other foot the Nats must feel  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 8:01 pm : link
In comment 14527039 xman said:
Quote:
cursed to blow two prior games with Met come from behind wins. Their fans must also be screaming at their BP


There's a difference between questioning a decision making process and a bad outcome. I'm sure the nats fans are pissed too but game 1 they had their closer on the mound with a 3 run lead. That's a relatively easy one to assign blame and it's not the manager's process but a player's extremely poor outcome.

Similarly Diaz had a bad outcome today - which isn't Callaway's fault. The issue was that he emptied his bp if the game went to extras with a string of bad decisions earlier (that also happened to lose the lead in the first place). And as always there's inconsistency in the decisions. Friday Stroman was getting tee'd off and he left him to face the top of the order in despite a full BP from a day off Thursday. Today JDG was cruising today but he pulled him out early knowing his BP was short without Lugo. It's like he just reacts to whatever most recently didn't work and does the opposite the next game regardless of any differences in the circumstances.
Time to move Diaz out of the closer spot  
ZGiants98 : 8/11/2019 9:10 pm : link
Make Lugo the closer and experiment with Familia in a setup role. He looked really sharp today and might be figuring it out again. Wilson 7th.

Diaz's slider just has zero movement. He simply cant find it. This has gone all year. The playoffs have begun now. He had his chances.

Good news is Mets have still had the second best bullpen ERA in baseball since the all star break so the pen as a whole IS performing much better.
Donít Want to Defend Calloway But  
Samiam : 8/11/2019 9:16 pm : link
I grant you that he has made a ton of bad moves, I really wonder if he has a bench coach worth his salt. That said, his bullpen got much better when the 2 lefties came back; he could match up a little. And lately the defense has gotten better. Still, the bullpen is completely unpredictable and will probably be the reason if they dont make the playoffs. For them to get in Diaz has to step in. Familia has shown enough over the years that he cannot be relied on. I think Calloway took him out today while he was doing well. If you leave him in against a good team, heíll find a way to screw up & then his confidence goes. Lugo canít be the only main guy during the season. Diaz has to be there. Oddly enough, if they get into the playoffs, with the days off, Lugo can be the guy,

You guys need to stop bitching  
dep026 : 8/11/2019 10:22 pm : link
About Callaway. If you wanna see how a manager who is clueless when it comes to baseball... see Gabe Kapler tonight. Just the biggest joke in the sport right now.
Hiring Gabe Kapler  
dep026 : 8/11/2019 10:25 pm : link
Was more devastating to the Phillies than Ryan howard Achilles injury.

Klentak ainít far behind. Nick Pivetta was a top of the rotation guy according to these buffoons! Go sabremetrics!
he chose his own bench coach this offseason (riggleman)  
Eric on Li : 8/11/2019 10:30 pm : link
The defense (and lineup) got better in the last week because Cano got hurt - if he didn't get hurt he'd have been leading off the 9th inning against Doolittle on Friday instead of JDD. This was the first series he's ever managed that actually mattered. How did he do Friday before getting bailed out by Frazier? Or today? Tie games in the 7th inning at home against a team with an even worse BP than ours.

Let's not overthink this, Mickey came in with a pitching coach background and in the 2 years he's been here every single relief pitcher has performed worse than they did prior. Diaz, Swarzak, Familia, Blevins, Wilson, Robles, all of them. He has already fired 1 pitching coach. The SP was great before he got here and they are still great (when the defense allows it).
.  
pjcas18 : 8/12/2019 6:04 pm : link
Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO

8m
Mets third round pick Matthew Allan made his third pro start today:

2 IP, H, 0 R, BB, 2 K

He has allowed one run in 4.1 innings with six strikeouts.
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