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Sy'56's Sunday Training Camp Report

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/11/2019 3:01 pm
FYI...
August 11, 2019 BBI New York Giants Training Camp Report - ( New Window )
Sy's comment on Saquon at WR  
Nine-Tails : 8/11/2019 4:05 pm : link
is something I've been think about. On drives when Saquon is out, why not split Saquon out wide? Probably around 10-15 snaps a game, on the short sample size he did last year, he had no issues getting free. I think this is much better utilization of his receiving ability as opposed to 6-8 dumpoffs.
Sy'56...  
M.S. : 8/11/2019 4:35 pm : link

...interesting and informative.

You said this about Saquon Barkley:

"I am thinking 15-20 carries per week and 7-10 targets per week. I think it can preserve him a tad while also maintaining the upside he brings to the table as a playmaker."

My question:

Is Wayne Gallman a good enough RB to take up a few more carries a game; or, do the Giants need an upgrade?
Great  
AcidTest : 8/11/2019 4:44 pm : link
report. Thanks.
RE: Sy'56...  
Emil : 8/11/2019 5:19 pm : link
In comment 14526974 M.S. said:
Quote:

...interesting and informative.

You said this about Saquon Barkley:

"I am thinking 15-20 carries per week and 7-10 targets per week. I think it can preserve him a tad while also maintaining the upside he brings to the table as a playmaker."

My question:

Is Wayne Gallman a good enough RB to take up a few more carries a game; or, do the Giants need an upgrade?


This is a great question. And even though I wasnít asked Iíll give my two cents. I agree with Sy. Barkley need to get somewhere between 7-10 targets in the passing game. Around 15 in the run game. Heís really more of a Marshall Faulk than a Tomlinson or Elliot.

And I donít think Gallman is good enough to be the RB when Saquon is split out wide. Heís not all that impressive between the tackles. And he seems to have as many negative runs as positive. Iím hoping the Giants scan the waiver wire for an inside the tackles runner. Or even trade Lauletta or Tanney for such a RB.
Thanks Sy  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/11/2019 5:42 pm : link
Regarding Barkley, Shula talked in the spring about expanding his routes this year. I bet we see him do that in Dallas (splitting out as a WR) but probably won't see it in preseason for the element of surprise. It will also offset the loss of Tate if suspended.

Peppers is going to make us  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/11/2019 6:29 pm : link
forget about Collins pretty soon, if we haven't already with Landon's childish behavior.
Great report.  
Ozarkman : 8/11/2019 6:29 pm : link
Thx. Always informative
Thanks for the report always informative  
Bluesbreaker : 8/11/2019 8:09 pm : link
Agree with SB and the touches don't want to wear him
down I think we have enough targets .
Remains to be seen how Gallman and Perkins do
Paul had the fumble and then dropped the pass
Wayne didn't show much of anything but he is the
number one backup , not sure who is out there to
bring in no need for a washed up vet
RE: Peppers is going to make us  
joeinpa : 8/11/2019 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14527017 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
forget about Collins pretty soon, if we haven't already with Landon's childish behavior.


Forget about who?
SB out wide  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/11/2019 8:44 pm : link
And catching a WR screen would be pretty dope.
RE: Thanks for the report always informative  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/11/2019 8:45 pm : link
In comment 14527055 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
Agree with SB and the touches don't want to wear him
down I think we have enough targets .
Remains to be seen how Gallman and Perkins do
Paul had the fumble and then dropped the pass
Wayne didn't show much of anything but he is the
number one backup , not sure who is out there to
bring in no need for a washed up vet

They both flashed in previous preseasons but haven't shown much in regular. And sucked ass last Thur.
Sy...  
bw in dc : 8/11/2019 9:10 pm : link
Quote:
Jones took one of his rookie-year lumps today. He threw the ball into traffic multiple times and had a hard time adjusting off his initial read. He ended up throwing a pick and then another that luckily wasnít intercepted. Also another play where the overall arm power doesnít seem to be there. He was in a crowded pocket, trying to get the ball downfield. He was able to about half-step into the toss but the ball was probably 7-10 yards shy of where it needed to be. Again, his arm is strong enough. But I do think there are some limitations with his downfield passing, thatís all.


Seems to be a pattern with Jones. Erratic arm strength. Just can't seem to stay at one consistent level. And it doesn't sound like it was a windy day either.

RE: Sy...  
BestFeature : 8/11/2019 9:26 pm : link
In comment 14527081 bw in dc said:
Quote:


Quote:


Jones took one of his rookie-year lumps today. He threw the ball into traffic multiple times and had a hard time adjusting off his initial read. He ended up throwing a pick and then another that luckily wasnít intercepted. Also another play where the overall arm power doesnít seem to be there. He was in a crowded pocket, trying to get the ball downfield. He was able to about half-step into the toss but the ball was probably 7-10 yards shy of where it needed to be. Again, his arm is strong enough. But I do think there are some limitations with his downfield passing, thatís all.



Seems to be a pattern with Jones. Erratic arm strength. Just can't seem to stay at one consistent level. And it doesn't sound like it was a windy day either.


bw, whenever someone says something negative about Jones:

RE: Sy...  
santacruzom : 8/11/2019 9:32 pm : link
In comment 14527081 bw in dc said:
Quote:


Quote:


Jones took one of his rookie-year lumps today. He threw the ball into traffic multiple times and had a hard time adjusting off his initial read. He ended up throwing a pick and then another that luckily wasnít intercepted. Also another play where the overall arm power doesnít seem to be there. He was in a crowded pocket, trying to get the ball downfield. He was able to about half-step into the toss but the ball was probably 7-10 yards shy of where it needed to be. Again, his arm is strong enough. But I do think there are some limitations with his downfield passing, thatís all.



Seems to be a pattern with Jones. Erratic arm strength. Just can't seem to stay at one consistent level. And it doesn't sound like it was a windy day either.


I didn't read it that way. Seems more like Sy was indicating that in a situation where he can't fully step into a throw and needs to rely nearly solely on arm and upper body strength, he is not as capable of making those throws as the upper tier arm talent folks are.
RE: RE: Sy...  
BestFeature : 8/11/2019 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14527111 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 14527081 bw in dc said:


Quote:




Quote:


Jones took one of his rookie-year lumps today. He threw the ball into traffic multiple times and had a hard time adjusting off his initial read. He ended up throwing a pick and then another that luckily wasnít intercepted. Also another play where the overall arm power doesnít seem to be there. He was in a crowded pocket, trying to get the ball downfield. He was able to about half-step into the toss but the ball was probably 7-10 yards shy of where it needed to be. Again, his arm is strong enough. But I do think there are some limitations with his downfield passing, thatís all.



Seems to be a pattern with Jones. Erratic arm strength. Just can't seem to stay at one consistent level. And it doesn't sound like it was a windy day either.




I didn't read it that way. Seems more like Sy was indicating that in a situation where he can't fully step into a throw and needs to rely nearly solely on arm and upper body strength, he is not as capable of making those throws as the upper tier arm talent folks are.


Yeah, I read that he has limitations for some throws that some QBs don't have. Doesn't mean he can't be a very good QB. For example, almost no QB can make all the throws Mahomes makes doesn't mean every QB before Mahomes has sucked. The offense can work around that.
RE: RE: Sy...  
bw in dc : 8/11/2019 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14527111 santacruzom said:
Quote:



I didn't read it that way. Seems more like Sy was indicating that in a situation where he can't fully step into a throw and needs to rely nearly solely on arm and upper body strength, he is not as capable of making those throws as the upper tier arm talent folks are.


I sort of buy that, yes. Still takes us back to the same concern - Jones arm talent can be exposed if some variables aren't in place (i.e. clean pocket).
Which QB's can throw downfield when they can't step into the throw?  
PatersonPlank : 8/11/2019 9:58 pm : link
Very few
Even if Jones has limitations so does every QB to some extent  
BestFeature : 8/11/2019 10:15 pm : link
That's why good coaches mitigate those limitations and highlight their strengths. Shurmur for some of his faults has proven he can do that.
I'm interested to see Jones on the move.  
PEEJ : 8/11/2019 10:22 pm : link
He's going to make some plays outside the pocket
RE: I'm interested to see Jones on the move.  
bw in dc : 8/11/2019 10:28 pm : link
In comment 14527133 PEEJ said:
Quote:
He's going to make some plays outside the pocket


I think that's going to be the key to his success - can that trait he showed at Duke convey to the NFL level?

If so, then that will help offset some of the arm limitations...
RE: RE: RE: Sy...  
section125 : 8/12/2019 4:18 am : link
In comment 14527115 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14527111 santacruzom said:


Quote:




I sort of buy that, yes. Still takes us back to the same concern - Jones arm talent can be exposed if some variables aren't in place (i.e. clean pocket).


There it is, the scouting report we have been waiting for! A QB that doesn't have perfect conditions is less likely to be able to make all the throws.

Well, no shit.
Best Feature  
Jimmy Googs : 8/12/2019 5:28 am : link
you must be playing Robin because whenever bw shows up you are not too far behind...
Two of the best, Tom Brady and Joe Montana do not have "strong arms"  
George from PA : 8/12/2019 6:12 am : link
And need clean pockets to throw.....granted,, they have special traits in other areas.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Sy...  
bw in dc : 8/12/2019 7:08 am : link
In comment 14527173 section125 said:
Quote:


There it is, the scouting report we have been waiting for! A QB that doesn't have perfect conditions is less likely to be able to make all the throws.

Well, no shit.


Youíve always seemed like a bright guy. So you know what I meant.

The NFL is uncomfortable. There are many plays that go off schedule. If a QB canít manage through that, and needs those perfect conditions too much to succeed, then that creates even more stress on the rest of the offense.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Sy...  
M.S. : 8/12/2019 7:49 am : link
In comment 14527184 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14527173 section125 said:


Quote:




There it is, the scouting report we have been waiting for! A QB that doesn't have perfect conditions is less likely to be able to make all the throws.

Well, no shit.



Youíve always seemed like a bright guy. So you know what I meant.

The NFL is uncomfortable. There are many plays that go off schedule. If a QB canít manage through that, and needs those perfect conditions too much to succeed, then that creates even more stress on the rest of the offense.


bw in dc -- your point is well taken when the QB under Center is 38-year old Eli Manning. At the first sign of pressure he tends to panic now more than ever before. And he will not make any plays if his pass blocking breakdown, unless one considers crumpling to the ground as "making a play."

But give Daniel Jones a chance! He's 16 years younger than Eli; he isn't shell-shocked like Eli; his legs are much fresher; and he is considerably faster!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Sy...  
M.S. : 8/12/2019 8:20 am : link
In comment 14527184 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14527173 section125 said:


Quote:




There it is, the scouting report we have been waiting for! A QB that doesn't have perfect conditions is less likely to be able to make all the throws.

Well, no shit.



Youíve always seemed like a bright guy. So you know what I meant.

The NFL is uncomfortable. There are many plays that go off schedule. If a QB canít manage through that, and needs those perfect conditions too much to succeed, then that creates even more stress on the rest of the offense.


And one more thing -- even with Eli's limitations as an older QB, I still think he can be very productive behind this offensive line. And so long as Will Hernandez, John Halapio and Kevin Zeitler allow Eli some space in the dead middle of the pocket, I think Eli can still light it up.
FFS...  
Brown_Hornet : 8/12/2019 8:28 am : link
...any opportunity to show your ass.

GFY?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Sy...  
bw in dc : 8/12/2019 8:36 am : link
In comment 14527191 M.S. said:
Quote:


bw in dc -- your point is well taken when the QB under Center is 38-year old Eli Manning. At the first sign of pressure he tends to panic now more than ever before. And he will not make any plays if his pass blocking breakdown, unless one considers crumpling to the ground as "making a play."

But give Daniel Jones a chance! He's 16 years younger than Eli; he isn't shell-shocked like Eli; his legs are much fresher; and he is considerably faster!


Read what I wrote earlier. My hope is Jonesís mobility can help offset some of these potential arm issues.
Iím more concerned about...  
5BowlsSoon : 8/12/2019 8:38 am : link
Why Chris Slade playing OL?

Deandre Baker getting hurt?
Objective speaking  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/12/2019 11:14 am : link
I can think of only 1 throw DJ8 can't make. The Favre TD pass to Lewis in the back of the end zone against SF.

Can't really think of any route he can't throw to.
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