I think Corey will announce two per day over the next few weeks/to month (I think one a day), so while it is behind the Athletic paywall (which as a side note broke my lifelong rule of never paying for content on the Internet and it's some of the best money I have ever spent) I feel like we can discuss it if people want as he reveals his list.
This should bring us into the pre-season.
I have posted some other rankings (Sportingnews - which was free).
But Pronman will go into much more depth about the systems. I will not on this thread except for the teams people have interest on here and I'll just be mostly parroting Pronman or others (Wheeler, etc.). I haven't seen many of these guys play ever.
So far:
31. Calgary Flames
30. Capitals
Hard to argue with either - the Caps won a cup a year ago and the past few years I've had the Flames as one of my breakout teams. A lot of good youth at the NHL level, just haven't found consistency in the net or the ice.
Criteria:
There is no good way to define a prospect, whether objectively or subjectively, someone is going to get left out by the process, it’s just the way it goes.
With that said, the eligibility for being a prospect for these rankings is:
A skater no longer qualifies as an NHL prospect if he has played 25 games in the NHL in any campaign, regular season and playoffs combined, or 50 games total; or reaches age 27 by Sept. 15.
A goalie no longer qualifies as an NHL prospect if he has played 10 games in the NHL in any campaign, regular season and playoffs combined, or 25 games total; or reaches age 27 by Sept. 15. |
Link below for the site that will be updated each day/as he completes a teams ranking/write up
Link - Pronman Farm System Rankings - (
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Wish I could take glee in this, but they are coming off a SCF loss and have a lot of youth infused into the team in recent years.
Plus I think they stole Beecher at the end of the 1st round this year. Fits their model to a T. Big, fast, power forward.
I do think their D is a little suspect, but shouldn't be too much on Achilles heel I expect them to be cup contenders again in 19-20 unfortunately.
the link above has the full write-up for Athletic subscribers.
Looking forward to these reviews.
This site from eliteprospects.com (called eprinkside) has some good write ups on prospects too.
Link is below.
top 5 not revealed yet, but rankings so far are:
6 MTL
7 NYI
8 NJD
9 OTT
10 COL
11 DET
12 LVG
13 BUF
14 CHI
15 FLA
16 ARI
17 EDM
18 ANA
19 MIN
20 DAL
21 TOR
22 NAS
23 STL
24 SJS
25 WIN
26 CBJ
27 BOS
28 CAL
29 TBL
30 PIT
31 WAS
Link - ( New Window )
Forwards are pretty marginal but with Barzal and so many veterans now under contract (Lee, Bailey, Eberle, Nelson) they don't have a ton of room. They need more high end talent but with where they are likely to be picking (at least while Trotz is there) it's probably more likely to come from trades/FA than draft. Missing out on Panarin is a huge bummer. He could have been such a good fit next to Barzal and they have the room for 1 more big contract.
#26 NSH
no surprise there, both contenders (in theory).
though maybe Bergevin should get some Subban slack now that he's traded in his prime (again).
@Hockey_Robinson
·
2m
Everybody is out here asking whether it’ll be Jacob Trouba or Adam Fox who gets to run that future filthy NYR power play.
People, you’re spelling K’Andre Miller wrong.
#24 DAL
Again, fits the mold, but teams have recent young additions.
Love Dallas' mix of youth and veterans. I think with more Heiskanen ice time this year the Stars should be better.
And CBJ has the leagues best D pair with Jones and Werenski. It's sometimes hard to believe they're still 24 and 22 respectively. Seems like they've been around forever. Seth Jones is the player whose D clips I use the most when showing technique to the kids I coach.
Anyway, makes sense neither has much on the farm, they're both close to contending.
@MOBeaudoin1
·
1h
Craig Button: “I like to make the argument that they (#Habs) have the best prospect pool of anybody in the NHL. It’s that good. I think they’ve done a terrific job! [...] And that’s not even including Kotkaniemi.”
He also thinks Yaroslav Askarov is the best goalie prospect since Carey Price, but I think Spencer Knight is right there with him or at least Askarov is more similar to Price.
PHI and VAN respectively.
Link - ( New Window )
MIN: 22
No surprise IMO.
TBL still the heavy cup favorite after last year's debacle.
MIN still a playoff contender.
Link for the great in depth reviews below
Link - ( New Window )
Here is their full list with a link to the write-ups for the other teams (if you can get to it):
1 NYR
2 LAK
3 CAR
4 VAN
5 PHI
6 MTL
7 NYI
8 NJD
9 OTT
10 COL
11 DET
12 LVG
13 BUF
14 CHI
15 FLA
16 ARI
17 EDM
18 ANA
19 MIN
20 DAL
21 TOR
22 NAS
23 STL
24 SJS
25 WIN
26 CBJ
27 BOS
28 CAL
29 TBL
30 PIT
31 WAS
Link - ( New Window )
20: SJS
no comment other than the Maple Leafs have one of the best collections of young talent in the game, but those young players need to be paid now (see Mitch Marner) and it's going to be tough to keep them after signing Tavares.
another one with NYR #1 (adding to eliteprospects - behind a paywall and one other site I think linked here).
This is the top 10:
1. NYR
2. LAK
3. COL
4. OTT
5. MTL
6. CAR
7. NJD
8. VAN
9. PHI
10. DET
Bottom 5:
27: CBJ
28. WAS
29. DAL
30. SJS
31. PIT
Link below with solid but nothing enlightening in terms of write-ups
Link - ( New Window )
Lafreniere #1.
Sounds like he views him similarly to a Kakko type prospect.
He has Byfield #4, and I think Byfield could rise.
The fastest riser IMO is Cole Perfetti. He stole the show at the Hlinka/Gretzky and flat out dominated.
See how he does in December.
Only one American I believe in his top 31, but with 11 1st round picks this past June, some adjustment is to be expected.
Link, for those with an Athletic subscription, below.
Link - ( New Window )
18: BUF
17: ARI
16: NYI
15: FLA
RE: NYI, he admits he doesn't have the Islanders as high as some scouts who consider it an elite farm system:
Pronman says he himself overrated players like Wahlstrom (I disagree, NCAA freshman years are overrated IMO - especially in Hockey East, but this guy gets paid to do this) and Ishakov.
He also says he might have underrated Dobson and Koivula, but regardless this is his ranking.
2018 he had NYI #5 overall and Toews and Dal Colle graduated.
draft grade: C
Dobson
Wahlstrom
Koivula
Wilde
Bellows
top 5.
link below with all the write-ups and to reiterate the order at the halfway point:
15. Florida Panthers
16. New York Islanders
17. Arizona Coyotes
18. Buffalo Sabres
19. St. Louis Blues
20. San Jose Sharks
21. Toronto Maple Leafs
22. Minnesota Wild
23. Tampa Bay Lightning
24. Dallas Stars
25. Columbus Blue Jackets
26. Nashville Predators
27. Winnipeg Jets
28. Pittsburgh Penguins
29. Boston Bruins
30. Washington Capitals
31. Calgary Flames
Link - ( New Window )
I hear ya. I had them 10-12 myself, so 16 isn't egregious. But either way, hard to deny they've taken a step back.
People forget NCAA freshman are 17/18 year old kids playing against 22/23 year olds (sometimes older) and then compare their point totals with kids in juniors.
I heard the same shit about Brady Tkachuk who was in NCAA for a year pre-draft due to his age.
He "only" had 8 goals and 31 points at BU as a Freshman.
I think he put to bed those concerns.
It's not uncommon for boys to grow like this at that age, but it does cause some adjustment.
I'm not sure if the 6'1" is his accurate height - I think it is, but could explain a year that didn't meet expectations (not from a stats standpoint - that's stupid like I said - I just mean overall game), it takes a while to adjust to rapid growth and coordination.
A little surprised Pronman is down on the system but if he's truly re-evaluating his assessment of Wahlstrom and didn't like the draft I guess I get it. Just a little curious because he wasn't especially high on the guys they graduated last year and he did have a bunch of Isles in contention for the top prospect list he did a few weeks ago.
He scored the same amount of goals in the same number of games with the USNDTP as Auston Matthews.
He is behind only Jack Hughes and Auston Matthews in total points in his USNDTP career.
Tied with Clayton Keller and Cole Caufield.
And behind only Hughes and Caufield in goals.
He's legit IMO. Doesn't always mean he'll pan out as an all-star, nothing is guaranteed, but that's why I have his floor where I have it.
He scored the same amount of goals in the same number of games with the USNDTP as Auston Matthews.
He is behind only Jack Hughes and Auston Matthews in total points in his USNDTP career.
Tied with Clayton Keller and Cole Caufield.
And behind only Hughes and Caufield in goals.
He's legit IMO. Doesn't always mean he'll pan out as an all-star, nothing is guaranteed, but that's why I have his floor where I have it.
Lets call game breakers all stars level, this is overly simplistic but the vast majority on the wing are high end skaters. He's never gotten high marks in that department and Pronman even said that's one area he disappointed last year.
There are certainly a few guys out there whose other scoring skills are so advanced the skating isn't a big deal (like Anders Lee for one) but they are pretty rare and I don't even know if most would consider him a true game breaker. I just never saw a top 3 draft pick like some had him last year.
Ovie, Marchand, Laine, Giroux, Benn - at least half of the top n wingers are not what you'd call elite skaters. They have sniper shots or great vision or off the charts hockey IQ or some combination of them.
Now, I'm not putting Wahlstrom in that group, but besides his scoring ability there are a lot of intangibles and maybe that's what scares some people, but his compete level and hockey IQ are among the best I've seen and as mentioned he can finish. Which is why I have his floor high. I'm not even speculating about his ceiling because that requires too much projection.
fair, they're all elite skaters in the NHL, but no one is confusing Marchand with Kane, Gaudreau or McDavid.
Benn is a very good hopeful comp and to me thats Wahlstrom's best chance of being a gamebreak. Corey Perry is another - crafty, gritty, great puck skills. Just not a ton of those guys who can produce at that level without the athletic explosiveness of the Panarin/Gaudreau/Ovie/Kucherov/Kane types. I'd guess that lack of athletic explosiveness was why he slipped to the isles in the draft if the first place.
Main reason why (my super biased self) would have Islanders a little higher (right around #10) is that I'm much higher on Wilde and Sorokin than he is.
Sorokin has repeated the elite KHL numbers for a while and he's still really young. I'm looking forward to finally getting him over to the Island.
Wilde has some work to do with decision making, but he really put together another great season last year. His upside is through the roof.
By all accounts Wilde had a very good season that raised his stock all around.
And Pronman ranked Koivula ahead of him. That seems like a pretty big development for a guy who wasn't even really on the radar this time last year.
Most of Wahlstrom's goals are greasy goals, and snipes, but you can definitely see some goals created with his feet: 1:10 minute mark, 2:20 also highlights his edge work and tight turns shaking a defender deep in his own zone.
I think fans sometimes hear "not elite skater" and think 3rd line checking forward or something.
His skating is good enough IMO
Link - ( New Window )
He likes Fox a little more than me, but it's well researched and a great in-depth write up. Pretty much paints him as the PP QB for the foreseeable future.
Link - ( New Window )
he agrees with me more than those who don't like Wahlstrom as much.
Some quotes:
By that, I mean that while he’s not a blinding skater, Wahlstrom is a powerful enough skater that he doesn’t need to rely on offensive-zone setups to score. When he gets moving, he can push defenders back enough with his feet to also remain an extremely dangerous threat off the rush.
On plays like this, you can see Wahlstrom’s skating at work. That’s a kid who is now roughly 210 pounds, attacking with speed, dropping his lead shoulder, and going right at the defender....
there is a video showing what he means
He’s going to be a star.
great video links to also emphasize what I saw when watching Wahlstrom.
Link - ( New Window )
13: DET
not that I'm pushing the Athletic, but there is a ton of quality hockey content on there.
The Athletic subscription and NHL Center Ice package on Verizon - the best money I spend every year.
13: DET
not that I'm pushing the Athletic, but there is a ton of quality hockey content on there.
.
Carp on the Rangers is pure gold
Quote:
14: ANA
13: DET
not that I'm pushing the Athletic, but there is a ton of quality hockey content on there.
.
Carp on the Rangers is pure gold
Agree, he's great.
Also, the Wheeler report on Fox I linked above is a must read for any Rangers fan with a subscription.
Seeing what the scouts see is a good view most of us don't see or are not trained to see and you usually get honest opinions from unaffiliated scouts.
"Someone in the comments called Pronman out on the org drop, despite Koivula's rise and the addition of several top prospects.
His response:
It's a fair criticism, and one I know I have to answer. Dobson/Wally are pretty similar to midyear but I moved Iskhakov and Wilde down a lot. That was me grappling with my own biases on the player versus what I was seeing and what plenty of NHL scouts were telling me about the players. It's not a great reason for my subscribers to read, but it's what happened."
He was the highest on Ishakov that I've seen, so him readjusting there makes sense but dropping Wilde is just so odd. Guy had the monster season everyone was hoping for him to have and still drops.
11: LVG
no surprises there, though I think LVG is higher than most have them. no marquee prospects, I guess decent depth though.
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Still just 21 I think.
Link - ( New Window )
Ward was a backup for the Blackhawks last year, but spent 13 years in CAR.
Won a SC and Conn Smythe as a 21-year old rookie.
peak of his career.
Solid career though, 300+ wins playing for the Hurricanes during some pretty down years.
@ToddMilewski
Another day of power play work for the #Badgers in their last practice before heading to Vancouver. The first unit was the same as Saturday (Cole Caufield, Alex Turcotte, Linus Weissbach, K'Andre Miller, Wyatt Kalynuk) ... (1/2)
4:57 PM · Aug 27, 2019·TweetDeck
so the latest overall:
And now for the rankings:
7. Philadelphia Flyers
8. Carolina Hurricanes
9. Edmonton Oilers
10. Chicago Blackhawks
11. Vegas Golden Knights
12. Ottawa Senators
13. Detroit Red Wings
14. Anaheim Ducks
15. Florida Panthers
16. New York Islanders
17. Arizona Coyotes
18. Buffalo Sabres
19. St. Louis Blues
20. San Jose Sharks
21. Toronto Maple Leafs
22. Minnesota Wild
23. Tampa Bay Lightning
24. Dallas Stars
25. Columbus Blue Jackets
26. Nashville Predators
27. Winnipeg Jets
28. Pittsburgh Penguins
29. Boston Bruins
30. Washington Capitals
31. Calgary Flames
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
I don't see how he survives.
Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC
· 5m
The NHL has formally notified the NHLPA that it will not re-open the CBA. Deadline to do so was this weekend. The player window to re-open runs through Sept. 15.