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Pat Shurmur: Anyone else feel that for this season...

M.S. : 8/13/2019 11:50 am
Ö(and maybe next) he stands at the crossroads of his career?

If he helps turn the team around, perhaps he'll go down in history as a respectable / successful Head Coach.

Or, if the Giants continue to flounder under his leadership, will he be consigned to history's dust bin of failed coaches?

In any event, in listening to him in various situations, one can't help but feel that he is an immanently decent, compassionate human being!
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Absolutly not  
superspynyg : 8/13/2019 11:54 am : link
Its not a win now scenario for him. He is still in a improve this team. The Brass know that this team is still not ready to compete with the top teams. We are still adding talent on both sides of the ball. All Pat needs to do is not take a huge step back and he will be back next season.

Plus he is developing a young qb.
I suspect heíll be fired this season  
Oscar : 8/13/2019 12:00 pm : link
Possibly not only because the Giants donít want to be seen firing a second consecutive coach in only their second season. He can also play the Daniel Jones card, built in excuse.

I do not think there is any chance heís the long term answer.
I have confidence is Shurmur  
GeofromNJ : 8/13/2019 12:02 pm : link
I think the Giants will do well with him, especially offensively. I had very little confidence in McAdoo, despite his 11-5 record in 2016.
I don't think he's the answer at HC  
JonC : 8/13/2019 12:07 pm : link
but 2019 would need to be really bad and unexpected for him to the get the boot.
I like him and hope he stays  
Chip : 8/13/2019 12:08 pm : link
This is a rebuilding year and next year should not be. Changing coaches all the time is how you become a losing franchise see the Jets, Browns over the last 20 years.
I donít think theyíd fire him yet  
mfsd : 8/13/2019 12:08 pm : link
unless he loses the locker room like McAdoo did. Heíll get a year with DJ at QB next year and then weíll see how much progress the teamís made
RE: I like him and hope he stays  
AcidTest : 8/13/2019 12:10 pm : link
In comment 14529077 Chip said:
Quote:
This is a rebuilding year and next year should not be. Changing coaches all the time is how you become a losing franchise see the Jets, Browns over the last 20 years.


Agreed.
I think Coach/Giants  
Giant John : 8/13/2019 12:11 pm : link
Are going to surprise some people this year. Mostly from Dallas and Philadelphia. Oh and the guy above too.
Crossroads in his career definitely, not this season  
jcn56 : 8/13/2019 12:14 pm : link
He'll get this one and next, barring as others have mentioned a Chernobyl style meltdown.

If he gets the ax here though, he's done as a HC.
RE: I don't think he's the answer at HC  
Matt in SGS : 8/13/2019 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14529075 JonC said:
Quote:
but 2019 would need to be really bad and unexpected for him to the get the boot.


100% agree. I think Shurmur is a capable football coach, and someone who likely will bring the Giants to the playoffs and help fix the mess that McAdoo and Reese created. But I don't see him as a Super Bowl winning coach. Think more Jim Fassel than Ray Handley/McAdoo but short of Parcells/Coughlin.

I think he will be given through 2020 and the Giants will evaluate after that.
I'm in Shurm's corner too  
Jim in Forest Hills : 8/13/2019 12:19 pm : link
I think the culture is being built the right way. If he can take Eli and then Jones to another level, I think he'll be successful.
Yeah, he's the guy before THE guy.  
bceagle05 : 8/13/2019 12:19 pm : link
Handle Eli's final games delicately, usher in and develop the new QB while the team is built up, then head back to the coordinator ranks.
Matt  
JonC : 8/13/2019 12:21 pm : link
Agreed. When I listen to him speak, it's not just the lukewarm demeanor. He's shown at times to be a bit petty, throws players under the bus, a bit weak under media scrutiny, etc. Not to mention his in game decisions and command are suspect at times.
This is a newish front office/coaching staff  
AnnapolisMike : 8/13/2019 12:34 pm : link
They are not getting the boot unless it is falling apart around them. I would guess they have a until after the 2021 season to show progress.

Again...thing falling apart would move that up.
.  
Danny Kanell : 8/13/2019 12:34 pm : link
I'm in full agreement with Matt and Jon on this thread.
RE: I don't think he's the answer at HC  
The_Boss : 8/13/2019 12:41 pm : link
In comment 14529075 JonC said:
Quote:
but 2019 would need to be really bad and unexpected for him to the get the boot.


This
I think that we, as Giants fans, should be rooting for him to succeed  
Bluenatic : 8/13/2019 12:41 pm : link
Personally, I hope he turns into the second coming of Vince Lombardi. Why wouldn't we want that?
Because of the Jones pick  
ryanmkeane : 8/13/2019 12:47 pm : link
and the fact that we are sticking with Eli, it is reasonable to assume that unless the season is an utter disaster, Shurmur will be the coach in 2020. We are building the culture and getting the right guys in here. The way I see it, we went 3-13 in McAdoo's final year. Shurmur improved that to 5-11. If we go 7-9 or 8-8 that would still be a nice jump, with the roster being absolutely playoff ready and contention ready in 2020. I think that was the plan all along. Still be competitive while building the roster for 2020 with our cap space for that year most likely being 90M+.
Not at all.  
Mike from Ohio : 8/13/2019 12:48 pm : link
If the team goes 7-9 or 8-8 you can argue he did a good job turning the franchise around just as well as you could argue it's just another non-playoff season. Neither result pushes him to "good coach" or "failed coach."

In a couple of years this team will either be winning and he will get credit, or they won't and he will be gone.
I can root for him to lead the Giants to Super Bowl wins  
JonC : 8/13/2019 12:49 pm : link
and also not think he's the guy to do it, at the same time. Let him prove me wrong.
I like  
darren in pdx : 8/13/2019 12:49 pm : link
him but his in-game management is the only thing I'm unsure of. I think the players like playing for him, he has a command of the team for now and I think he's good for the offense and developing Jones.
IMO  
Leg of Theismann : 8/13/2019 12:51 pm : link
Everyone is hired one level above their competency... and Shurmur is a perfect example of that (again, just my gut feeling).
Jon and Matt are fairly astute and certainly experienced  
ColHowPepper : 8/13/2019 12:59 pm : link
NYGiants watchers.

With the default 'Eli excuse', I think it's hard to judge 2018 because the OL was so poor, so limited, Odell in and out. The 'd' was eminently shreddable.

While he may burn under the collar a bit under media scrutiny, or make references to players that might be ill advised**, ok. Yeah, lot of weight on his shoulders, still getting his feet anchored with 'his' team.

What I like about him is that it's clear that he is liked by players. I think he has low tolerance for mental mistakes on the field, which is good, and he immediately lets players know about it--see ** above.

No one is going to be Parcells incarnate. I guess the core of the critique is maybe his football acumen is not high enough? This season will add to the basis for evaluation.
RE: Matt  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/13/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14529093 JonC said:
Quote:
Agreed. When I listen to him speak, it's not just the lukewarm demeanor. He's shown at times to be a bit petty, throws players under the bus, a bit weak under media scrutiny, etc. Not to mention his in game decisions and command are suspect at times.


Do you remember any examples? I too question whether or not he is the guy to lead this team, but that is more about your latter statement. Reports from players seem to really respect him from a managing of personalities stand point.
At the moment, no  
JonC : 8/13/2019 1:05 pm : link
I honestly don't retain those details to the extent I used to, it's too frustrating to watch professionals fall short in basic areas and still collect a huge paycheck.
No I think he has until 2020. He needs time to try to develope Jones.  
Blue21 : 8/13/2019 1:08 pm : link
If Jones does well in his system and they bring someone new in it better be someone that has a similiar system. The last think you'd want to do is ruin a young QB just learning.
RE: RE: Matt  
Danny Kanell : 8/13/2019 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14529165 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14529093 JonC said:


Quote:


Agreed. When I listen to him speak, it's not just the lukewarm demeanor. He's shown at times to be a bit petty, throws players under the bus, a bit weak under media scrutiny, etc. Not to mention his in game decisions and command are suspect at times.



Do you remember any examples? I too question whether or not he is the guy to lead this team, but that is more about your latter statement. Reports from players seem to really respect him from a managing of personalities stand point.


The one that stuck out to me the most last year was allowing the Saints to run the clock down before the half when we had all our timeouts. They had a 3rd and goal with over a minute left and Shurmur let the Saints run the clock down to like 20 seconds before the play.

He owned up to it afterwards but there's absolutely no excuse for it as an NFL head coach. I was at the game and we were all screaming to call a timeout.
.  
Danny Kanell : 8/13/2019 1:11 pm : link
This sums it up better than I did.

Link - ( New Window )
He ain't the answer at HC  
Optimus-NY : 8/13/2019 1:11 pm : link
But he gets the next two years. His in-game decision making is subpar. The Pint return with Odell at the end of the game and the way he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory against the Eagles by not giving Saquon more carries still disgust me.
....  
2cents : 8/13/2019 1:14 pm : link
i agree that this year is crucial for him, we need to see significant improvement, but i disagree with the general consensus that hes likely not "the guy".

Yes his interviews leave a lot to be desired but the team didnt give up on him last yr despite the shit show that was going on. I think that says more about him as a leader than a couple rough interviews with a washed up Francesa who clearly has an axe to grind with the jints.

I expect a hungry, confident team, that plays sound football this year. clearly not the most talented team on paper but I am very excited to see what he can do with an average offensive line in yr two of the system.
Playcalling end of last Cowboys game  
uther99 : 8/13/2019 1:18 pm : link
Giants had ball at mid field with 2 timeouts and 1:12. 4 pretty crap pass plays
I think he is absolutely at the crossroads of his career,  
81_Great_Dane : 8/13/2019 1:21 pm : link
which is a separate question from how long the Giants keep him. Top NFL coaches donít generally need 3-4 years to turn around their teams ó more like 1-2. If Shurmur is a top-tier coach the Giants should make a big leap this year and be contenders for the NFC title next year. Thatís even with Jones taking over for Eli.

If they win 7-8 games this season and 9-10 next season that is a nice turnaround and he keeps his job, just as Coughlin did, but thatís probably not going to put him in the top tier of coaches. Also itís his second head coaching job, so heís not a rookie. He needs to show results, and fast.

So will he do prove a failure, a mediocrity or a star? Thatís the crossroads heís at. Itís probably his last chance to be a star.
RE: Absolutly not  
ajr2456 : 8/13/2019 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14529056 superspynyg said:
Quote:
Its not a win now scenario for him. He is still in a improve this team. The Brass know that this team is still not ready to compete with the top teams. We are still adding talent on both sides of the ball. All Pat needs to do is not take a huge step back and he will be back next season.

Plus he is developing a young qb.


Disagree. Another 4 or 5 win season and he's gone.
His Dan Reevesian milquetoastness  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/13/2019 1:31 pm : link
Is a concern. Peter Principle will likely come into play, he seems to be a perfectly fine OC.
There were reasons to believe McAdoo was a good coach  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/13/2019 2:10 pm : link
After one year.

You cant evaluate a head coach based on the idea that the team didnt quit on him in a 5 win season. That's a very soft standard.

He wont be fired this year unless it's a total disaster.
I have thought about this recently..  
prdave73 : 8/13/2019 2:17 pm : link
I also donít think he is the answer for HC of this team. Even as a play caller imo. I am hoping for the best. Hopefully Iím wrong.
Pulling for him  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/13/2019 2:28 pm : link
This is his fourth year as a Head Coach. Regardless of prior circumstances it is important to win and mostly for Pat himself. All the culture talk will quickly fade without results.

Coach said he is a overachiever several times. Let's stop talking with the media about the Giants being a young team and get them to perform and overachieve.

There is enough of a veteran presence and talent that anything less than a competitive big game in December without catastrophic injuries should have the Giants move on from him imo.

Shurmur...  
bw in dc : 8/13/2019 2:28 pm : link
got hired in a very tough spot. Aging, iconic QB on the back nine, an old GM trying to rebuild a team, and now a young QB who has been declared the successor to Eli. And it's still not decided when the transition begins.

Unless this season completely implodes, I think Shurmur deserves a chance to have a QB that fits his system. And that's Jones - so it seems on paper. And he needs to have that play out over a full year. So I think it would be fair to give him another year.

Unless a great coaching prospect enters the market, and it's too vital not to add that coach...just for kicks, like an Urban Meyer decides to get in the league...

He's in a tough spot  
arniefez : 8/13/2019 2:32 pm : link
He has an awful HC record and he has a roster especially on defense that's a lot closer to 4-12 than 12-4. His best chance to coach the Giants in 2020 is probably a slow start, switch to Jones win a few meaningless games at the end of the year. I'm not sure he can survive another 5-11 otherwise and 5-11 is probably what this team is again.
RE: I think he is absolutely at the crossroads of his career,  
M.S. : 8/13/2019 3:15 pm : link
In comment 14529191 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
which is a separate question from how long the Giants keep him. Top NFL coaches donít generally need 3-4 years to turn around their teams ó more like 1-2. If Shurmur is a top-tier coach the Giants should make a big leap this year and be contenders for the NFC title next year. Thatís even with Jones taking over for Eli.

If they win 7-8 games this season and 9-10 next season that is a nice turnaround and he keeps his job, just as Coughlin did, but thatís probably not going to put him in the top tier of coaches. Also itís his second head coaching job, so heís not a rookie. He needs to show results, and fast.

So will he do prove a failure, a mediocrity or a star? Thatís the crossroads heís at. Itís probably his last chance to be a star.

Thank you!

I mean no disrespect to the other posters on this thread, but my question was, indeed, whether or not Pat Shurmur is at the crossroads of his career, and not whether or not he has a one / two year window to succeed.

Those are two different questions... related, but different.
I can name a few head coaches who were not successful  
joeinpa : 8/13/2019 3:39 pm : link
Until they were.

Can we be patient with this guy. Often times circumstances dictate you just canít win no matter how good a coach you might be.

He has not exactly been in great situations. As for his first year with the Giants, his team played considerably better as the season progressed.

It a very possible he is actually a very good head coach.
I have said it repeatedly this offseason that the jury is  
RDJR : 8/13/2019 4:59 pm : link
still out on Shurmur as a Head Coach. I donít think this is a make it or break it season, but this season will tell us a lot about his ability to be the head coach here. I have no doubt he is a good football coach and a good human being. His ability to lead men is what we are waiting to see. I hope he is incredibly successful.
RE: I can name a few head coaches who were not successful  
81_Great_Dane : 8/13/2019 5:05 pm : link
In comment 14529378 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Until they were.

Can we be patient with this guy. Often times circumstances dictate you just canít win no matter how good a coach you might be.

He has not exactly been in great situations. As for his first year with the Giants, his team played considerably better as the season progressed.

It a very possible he is actually a very good head coach.
Agree 100%! I am pretty optimistic about Shurmur. But as many have noted on BBI, he wasn't a winner with the Browns (Unfair test, but still). He hasn't been successful yet. If he is with the Giants, that's the "until" part.
What's more important this year?  
bw in dc : 8/13/2019 5:14 pm : link
Winning or developing Jones?

I could easily argue Jones. He is the compass of the future.

So if Jones get in, and I hope it's much sooner rather than later, and he does well, Shurmur should get a ton of credit. And regardless of the record.

This is getting way down the road, but if the above occurs, then Jones will have some say in the matter. If he likes Shurmur, that will carry weight.
Outside of a 2017  
lax counsel : 8/13/2019 6:13 pm : link
Type disaster, Shurmur will get another year. If for not any other reason than he will get some time to develop Jones. Wins and losses this year are probably not as critical as gaging what the team has in Jones. Do they have a stud or do the have a mediocre or worse qb?

Now if 2020 comes and the Giants are still a mess and Jones looks lost, I think everyone - not limited to Shurmur - is likely gone.

Like others have said, I think the jury is still out on Shurmur, but to date he has not been a successful NFL head coach. Maybe the light bulb goes on for him, or he could be a guy who is nothing more than a good coordinator. League history is littered with those types.
He has yet to lead  
Les in TO : 8/13/2019 7:28 pm : link
A team to a winning season in three years. Although you can chalk last year up to rebuilding some of the losses were partially his fault with questionable play calling. Until he can prove otherwise he will be lumped in with other successful coordinators who were not successful head coaches like Norv turner or Wade Phillips
RE: I can name a few head coaches who were not successful  
santacruzom : 8/13/2019 7:32 pm : link
In comment 14529378 joeinpa said:
Quote:

It a very possible he is actually a very good head coach.


Sure, it's possible, and it's possible that Imagine Dragons creates a timeless album that will go down in history as a defining musical achievement on par with Exile on Main Street. But the past doesn't give much confidence that either will happen.
M.S.  
section125 : 8/13/2019 7:33 pm : link
"Or, if the Giants continue to flounder under his leadership, will he be consigned to history's dustbin of failed coaches?"

The word is founder(sink). Flounder is a fish.

But, yes, if he doesn't get it done here, he will be done as a HC.
RE: He has yet to lead  
bw in dc : 8/13/2019 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14529577 Les in TO said:
Quote:
A team to a winning season in three years. Although you can chalk last year up to rebuilding some of the losses were partially his fault with questionable play calling. Until he can prove otherwise he will be lumped in with other successful coordinators who were not successful head coaches like Norv turner or Wade Phillips


I hear you, but Turner and Phillips had some success. Surprisingly, Phillips is 82/64 basically over 11 season (two seasons where he was hired the end of a season). Of those 11 season he had winning records in 7. That surprised when I studied it...
I think for John Mara  
steve in ky : 8/13/2019 8:52 pm : link
regaining stability for the Giants organization is a priority. It would take something awful to happen this season for him to not give Shumrur a third season.
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