Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NYG OL Conversation

Pep22 : 8/13/2019 12:35 pm
Starters are known:

LT Nate Solder - he's admittedly "average" but the Flowers debacle made this a necessary albeit expensive signing

LG Will Hernandez - nothing but optimism; not only for his ability but also as a tone setter that every OL needs

C: Jon Halapio - injury last year was a bummer, but regardless, it seems like we've taken an UDFA and turned him into a starter with upside

RG: Kevin Zeitler - top tier OG -- its also worth wondering whether the negative reaction by fans and media alike would have been different had the OV for KZ trade (grand theft) been part of the OBJ trade

RT: Mike Zemmers - hoping for health and a return to being a solid RT

Backups: DISCUSSION OF THESE GUYS IS REALLY THE POINT OF THIS POST.

Evan Brown strikes me as the most promising of the bench guys. Seems extremely strong and quick.

I don't love Wheeler and I suppose none of us do. But I suppose he's an adequate swing guy at OT.

I don't think Pulley is tough enough to reconcile with what we are building on the OL.

Gates was disappointing to me last week.

Does anybody have anything encouraging to say about Slade, Bunche or Salako? I really don't know much about these guys.

Slade was starting at RT  
cjac : 8/13/2019 12:39 pm : link
with the 1s today over Wheeler
Wheeler seems to have fallen out of favor if you  
robbieballs2003 : 8/13/2019 12:40 pm : link
put stock into the practice reps.
I'm expecting some pickups from waivers  
RobCarpenter : 8/13/2019 12:44 pm : link
for some of the backup OL positions.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/13/2019 12:45 pm : link
Slade and Gates are making a move.
Gates is not a tackle at this level.  
Klaatu : 8/13/2019 12:46 pm : link
SAS (Short Arm Syndrome). He was pressed into service at OT against the Jets because of injuries to other players, but he's been used mainly at OG. From what I understand, the coaching staff loves him.

Chad Slade at least has some experience, albeit not a lot. Five games in three years with Houston.

One guy I thought we'd hear more about is Paul Adams, but he doesn't appear to get much pub.

Evan Brown has worked exclusively at Guard this year, so I guess the Giants are content to look only at Halapio, Pulley, and O'Hagan at Center.
RE: Gates is not a tackle at this level.  
Capt. Don : 8/13/2019 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14529141 Klaatu said:
Quote:


One guy I thought we'd hear more about is Paul Adams, but he doesn't appear to get much pub.


Agreed on Adams. I think he is destined for PS.

I am optimistically hoping that between he and Big George we strike gold with one of them at RT.

Late round OL seem to be DGs niche.
I had hoped to hear more positives on E Brown  
Dave : 8/13/2019 1:26 pm : link
and P Adams

and thought the year of bulking up woulda helped Wheeler
RE: I had hoped to hear more positives on E Brown  
Bill in UT : 8/13/2019 1:30 pm : link
In comment 14529195 Dave said:
Quote:
and P Adams

and thought the year of bulking up woulda helped Wheeler


From what I gather, the year of bulking up has made Wheeler heavier
It's not a group there is a lot to say about  
BillT : 8/13/2019 1:31 pm : link
Outside of Pulley they don't have much time on an NFL field. From practice it seemed Gates was doing well at guard but he was pressed into service at tackle because of injury. Wheeler seemed to be the swing tackle but he got nicked, I believe. Hard to get a feel for what's going on.
I know many didn't like Gates...  
Dan in the Springs : 8/13/2019 1:36 pm : link
Sy in particular had him as one of his three disappointments from the Jets games. I didn't catch that with what I saw. I think he got dogged because of the three penalties.

That first penalty was an aggressive play where he pancaked last year's Jets 3rd rounder 315 pound Shepherd. Didn't look like a hold to me but like a win that got flagged because he ended up on top of his man on the ground.

The second hold was tough to see from the TV coverage, but it looked like a tough play for him - Gates was locked on the defender when Smith planted his foot and cut outside. Gates held a tiny bit too long and I think he knew it as he turned toward the official as soon as Smith got by him.

Meanwhile, he looked good in space overall, not like the turnstiles we've typically seen there. He got a lot of snaps and kept in front of his man while also keeping his head on a swivel.

He did have the one false start, but that stuff will happen, it really only stood out because it was one of only a few OL penalties the entire game, and because it followed the first hold, and because Papa mentioned it.

He also seemed to play through the whistle early on, driving his man on a few plays well into the backfield. Later, perhaps he was tiring, because I didn't see as much of it. His arms may be a little short, but it didn't seem to effect him, imo.

Admittedly he was going up against backups. Most of the game he was matched up regularly against Jets 3rd rounder Jachai Polite, who had 17.5 TFL, 11 sacks and 6 forced fumbles as a senior last year. Here's what NJ.com said about him:
Quote:
Analysis: Polite had an equally quiet night Ė but unlike Williams, he didnít have a small sample size and didnít play against top-tier talent. He played with the Jetsí third-team defense and was out there for 32 snaps (52 percent). But he made just two tackles and never really sniffed the quarterback. Polite had a few good practices leading into this game, but that didnít bear fruit. Two steps forward, one step back.

Grade: C-


The sack that Meander got he was unblocked on an RPO where Lauletta inadvisedly kept the ball, and although he came from Gates' side, he was in no way Gates' responsibility as TE Dickerson was aligned to his left. I couldn't really see why he was knocked so much.

The other sack that was overturned and ruled an incompletion was on a stunt over C-LG that caught Evan Brown unprepared. Gates had his man locked down on that play.

I may be giving him a plus in part because my expectations were so low. I've seen so many backup OT on the Giants over the years who looked ridiculously bad. I also didn't think he would be playing at LT even though I'd read the praise about him from the coaches. I had to go back into his bio to see that he'd been a LT at Nebraska after the game. Having said that, in my discussion with my son after the game I said he was one of the rookies who stood out in a positive way to me, and that was before Sy's and others' comments.
Slade hung around the Texans for a really long time.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/13/2019 2:10 pm : link
A year on IR, then three years mostly on the practice squad. OL coach Mike Devlin must have thought there was something worth developing. Anyone know of a connection between Shurmur's staff and O'Brien's? Then again, maybe Slade was a just a useful, malleable practice body.

Like all practice squad players, Slade was free to sign anywhere; so it's not clear whether Houston tried to retain him for another year. I can't imagine there are many situations around the League that offer better opportunities for a backup offensive lineman than the Giants. So the GMen were probably a pretty attractive destination.
Barksdale?  
Angus : 8/13/2019 2:20 pm : link
Among possible free agents, OL should be priority.
BBV Article on Free Agents - ( New Window )
RE: Wheeler seems to have fallen out of favor if you  
ColHowPepper : 8/13/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14529118 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
put stock into the practice reps.
True on the practice reps, but weren't there reports that Wheeler had some back pain, which may have set him back. If Slade and Gates are better, by all means, get them on board.
Gates  
ColHowPepper : 8/13/2019 2:48 pm : link
from what I saw, which was not every play of H2, I didn't think he was so bad. He seemed to have some pop in his arm thrust (even if he's classed as alligator), pretty nimble on his feet, and, yeah, he got flagged on some holds. First time playing LT, first Ex game. Pretty harsh assessment I think.
It took two seasons to get the starting oline to a level we can feel  
Ira : 8/13/2019 2:52 pm : link
comfortable. Now the work starts on 2nd string. The o-line has come a long way, but it's not done yet.
Another comment on the backup OL...  
Dan in the Springs : 8/13/2019 2:52 pm : link
Overall they all seemed to have a good night, imo. Salako had a hold, iirc, but seemed pretty good.

The one player on the OL all night who really disappointed me was Pulley. I saw him get blown back several times off the snap and also saw him late to recognize/react to pressure coming inside. It's one thing for a rookie, but he's a seasoned vet who isn't playing the pivot with his head on a swivel enough still. Will be watching to see if he stays second string. Haven't heard anything about him challenging Pio for a long time now, imagine that spot has been won now.
Gates' arms are 32 inches...  
Dan in the Springs : 8/13/2019 3:21 pm : link
which are definitely short for a tackle, but not so short that he can't be successful there.

For example, Joe Thomas (10 pro-bowls, 6 all-pro) was only 32.5 inches. Not saying Gates = Thomas, but it shows that if you play the position correctly you can have success with shorter arms.

Other successful tackles:

Staley (6 pro-bowls, 3 all-pro) - 33.5
Gross (3 pro-bowls, first team all-pro) - 33.25
Peters (9 pro-bowls, 2 all-pro) - 33.125
Penn (3 pro-bowls) - 33

It's very rare for a guy to be successful with shorter arms, but not impossible. These examples all have longer arms than Gates, but not the 34+ inch length many think is necessary. Ereck Flowers' 34.5 inch arms didn't help him much.
A couple of corrections  
Jay on the Island : 8/13/2019 3:31 pm : link
Halapio was a 6th round pick of the pats not an UDFA.

Also one of the knocks on Evan Brown was that he needed to get much stronger to make it in the nfl.
I would give Gates a pass for last week  
Jay on the Island : 8/13/2019 3:57 pm : link
He's been practicing exclusively at G over the past two years but was thrown in at LT last week due to injuries. The coaches clearly like what they've seen so far and I think he is a favorite to land one of the final two backup spots especially if he improves at OT with more time there.

I think Asafo-Adjei will end up on IR.
I love Wheeler  
Milton : 8/13/2019 4:00 pm : link
It's not romantic love or anything like that, but he's much more valuable to the team than many give him credit for.
RE: I love Wheeler  
Klaatu : 8/13/2019 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14529418 Milton said:
Quote:
It's not romantic love or anything like that, but he's much more valuable to the team than many give him credit for.


It must be romantic love. It certainly can't be love of the way he plays pro football.

Oh, wait...this explains it.
RE: RE: I love Wheeler  
Milton : 8/13/2019 4:18 pm : link
In comment 14529444 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14529418 Milton said:


Quote:


It's not romantic love or anything like that, but he's much more valuable to the team than many give him credit for.



It must be romantic love. It certainly can't be love of the way he plays pro football.

Oh, wait...this explains it.
Cupid has nothing on Boylhart when it comes to matchmaking!
That Boylhart clip is amazing.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/13/2019 4:19 pm : link
.
Evan Brown is putrid  
Joey in VA : 8/13/2019 4:33 pm : link
Absolutely putrid, he has no future in the NFL. His footwork is atrocious and he's undersized on top of it. I hope he's played his sorry ass off the roster, I'm sick of hearing anything about his potential. He was being forklifted by 3rd stringers with ease repeatedly.
RE: Evan Brown is putrid  
Klaatu : 8/13/2019 5:01 pm : link
In comment 14529461 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Absolutely putrid, he has no future in the NFL. His footwork is atrocious and he's undersized on top of it. I hope he's played his sorry ass off the roster, I'm sick of hearing anything about his potential. He was being forklifted by 3rd stringers with ease repeatedly.


Pulley isn't much better, and I have no idea about O'Hagan. I think Halapio can be okay - not great, but okay - but God help us if he gets hurt again.
Does  
noro9 : 8/13/2019 5:02 pm : link
Solder really admit that's he's average?
RE: Gates' arms are 32 inches...  
OntheRoad : 8/13/2019 6:13 pm : link
In comment 14529351 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
which are definitely short for a tackle, but not so short that he can't be successful there.


He can be known as G-Rex.
I wish we had one more young blue(ish) chipper  
djm : 8/13/2019 10:00 pm : link
Iíd like to see nyg invest a higher pick next year on the OL.

That said I love the interior. Feel comfy with LT and mediocre at RT. Far cry from the last too many years.
RE: I know many didn't like Gates...  
.McL. : 8/14/2019 10:37 am : link
In comment 14529211 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
Sy in particular had him as one of his three disappointments from the Jets games. I didn't catch that with what I saw. I think he got dogged because of the three penalties.

...


Careful, you are making judgements about OL play from watching the game on TV! Fatman will be here shortly to tell you don't know shit from watching it. You can't tell anything about OL play from watching and not know the line calls...

I'm sure you can guess what I think of his opinion! Pffft... I appreciate the POV, thanks.
I think there's a lot more to line play  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/14/2019 10:49 am : link
Than can be seen on TV. The tv angle doesnt focus on the OL. It follows the ball.

It's too easy to watch a game on tv and think we know what's going on.
RE: I think there's a lot more to line play  
Dan in the Springs : 8/14/2019 11:39 am : link
In comment 14530027 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Than can be seen on TV. The tv angle doesnt focus on the OL. It follows the ball.

It's too easy to watch a game on tv and think we know what's going on.


I believe there is so much more going on in the game than any of us have a clue about from watching TV.

I also believe many of the loudest voices amongst Giants fans don't watch as much football as they should to validate their opinions. What football observations are made are often posted as facts.

I know enough to know I don't know much, which is why I generally ask other more knowledgeable posters to chime in with their viewpoints. I'm just a fan with limited access to the Giants, and welcome all insights from those who are willing to teach/share. As a result my time spent on this site as a percentage of my time spent learning about football continue to shrink. I find I'm learning so much more from Twitter and YouTube than I am on BBI threads. Even on a thread specifically title OL conversation where the OP asks for opinions on the backups receives very few substantive comments here.

The day may come where this site becomes a fly-by for me, a place to check for rumors & little else when I'm bored.
With Gates, it's a lot more than just the length of his arms.  
Klaatu : 8/14/2019 12:13 pm : link
Like most college OT's, he's better off moving inside as a pro. That's why the Giants had him working there after they signed him last year (before putting him on IR in September), and that's why he's played OG exclusively this year, too. If Wheeler and Mihalik hadn't been hurt (and Big George, too, I'd guess), I doubt he would've seen any time at LT against the Jets.

Ditto for Chad Slade, who was primarily a RG in college (and for a few games with Houston...RG, 3rd TE), but who did play some RT, LT, and LG as well.

To be honest, against the Jets I thought they'd be disastrous but they were very far from that. I know it was against backups, for the most part, but they did a lot better than I expected (at least in pass-protection - not so much in run-blocking). Color me shocked.
Slade & Gates  
mittenedman : 8/14/2019 1:17 pm : link
fit in with what the Giants are doing up front. Slade's a big slobberknocker RT who also plays G. Worst case they have to play him and just mash forward.

I really like the direction the Giants are going up front with Barkley at TB. This is more like their big power lines of the late 80's/early 90's than the technicians of the 2000's.

I rewatched the Jets game focusing on the interior OL and both Hernandez and Zeitler were excellent. Halapio is physical and always looking to hit somebody. There is going to be some solid inside running room - catalyst to any offense.
Back to the Corner