Starters are known:
LT Nate Solder - he's admittedly "average" but the Flowers debacle made this a necessary albeit expensive signing
LG Will Hernandez - nothing but optimism; not only for his ability but also as a tone setter that every OL needs
C: Jon Halapio - injury last year was a bummer, but regardless, it seems like we've taken an UDFA and turned him into a starter with upside
RG: Kevin Zeitler - top tier OG -- its also worth wondering whether the negative reaction by fans and media alike would have been different had the OV for KZ trade (grand theft) been part of the OBJ trade
RT: Mike Zemmers - hoping for health and a return to being a solid RT
Backups: DISCUSSION OF THESE GUYS IS REALLY THE POINT OF THIS POST.
Evan Brown strikes me as the most promising of the bench guys. Seems extremely strong and quick.
I don't love Wheeler and I suppose none of us do. But I suppose he's an adequate swing guy at OT.
I don't think Pulley is tough enough to reconcile with what we are building on the OL.
Gates was disappointing to me last week.
Does anybody have anything encouraging to say about Slade, Bunche or Salako? I really don't know much about these guys.
Chad Slade at least has some experience, albeit not a lot. Five games in three years with Houston.
One guy I thought we'd hear more about is Paul Adams, but he doesn't appear to get much pub.
Evan Brown has worked exclusively at Guard this year, so I guess the Giants are content to look only at Halapio, Pulley, and O'Hagan at Center.
One guy I thought we'd hear more about is Paul Adams, but he doesn't appear to get much pub.
Agreed on Adams. I think he is destined for PS.
I am optimistically hoping that between he and Big George we strike gold with one of them at RT.
Late round OL seem to be DGs niche.
and thought the year of bulking up woulda helped Wheeler
and thought the year of bulking up woulda helped Wheeler
From what I gather, the year of bulking up has made Wheeler heavier
That first penalty was an aggressive play where he pancaked last year's Jets 3rd rounder 315 pound Shepherd. Didn't look like a hold to me but like a win that got flagged because he ended up on top of his man on the ground.
The second hold was tough to see from the TV coverage, but it looked like a tough play for him - Gates was locked on the defender when Smith planted his foot and cut outside. Gates held a tiny bit too long and I think he knew it as he turned toward the official as soon as Smith got by him.
Meanwhile, he looked good in space overall, not like the turnstiles we've typically seen there. He got a lot of snaps and kept in front of his man while also keeping his head on a swivel.
He did have the one false start, but that stuff will happen, it really only stood out because it was one of only a few OL penalties the entire game, and because it followed the first hold, and because Papa mentioned it.
He also seemed to play through the whistle early on, driving his man on a few plays well into the backfield. Later, perhaps he was tiring, because I didn't see as much of it. His arms may be a little short, but it didn't seem to effect him, imo.
Admittedly he was going up against backups. Most of the game he was matched up regularly against Jets 3rd rounder Jachai Polite, who had 17.5 TFL, 11 sacks and 6 forced fumbles as a senior last year. Here's what NJ.com said about him:
Grade: C-
The sack that Meander got he was unblocked on an RPO where Lauletta inadvisedly kept the ball, and although he came from Gates' side, he was in no way Gates' responsibility as TE Dickerson was aligned to his left. I couldn't really see why he was knocked so much.
The other sack that was overturned and ruled an incompletion was on a stunt over C-LG that caught Evan Brown unprepared. Gates had his man locked down on that play.
I may be giving him a plus in part because my expectations were so low. I've seen so many backup OT on the Giants over the years who looked ridiculously bad. I also didn't think he would be playing at LT even though I'd read the praise about him from the coaches. I had to go back into his bio to see that he'd been a LT at Nebraska after the game. Having said that, in my discussion with my son after the game I said he was one of the rookies who stood out in a positive way to me, and that was before Sy's and others' comments.
Like all practice squad players, Slade was free to sign anywhere; so it's not clear whether Houston tried to retain him for another year. I can't imagine there are many situations around the League that offer better opportunities for a backup offensive lineman than the Giants. So the GMen were probably a pretty attractive destination.
BBV Article on Free Agents - ( New Window )
The one player on the OL all night who really disappointed me was Pulley. I saw him get blown back several times off the snap and also saw him late to recognize/react to pressure coming inside. It's one thing for a rookie, but he's a seasoned vet who isn't playing the pivot with his head on a swivel enough still. Will be watching to see if he stays second string. Haven't heard anything about him challenging Pio for a long time now, imagine that spot has been won now.
For example, Joe Thomas (10 pro-bowls, 6 all-pro) was only 32.5 inches. Not saying Gates = Thomas, but it shows that if you play the position correctly you can have success with shorter arms.
Other successful tackles:
Staley (6 pro-bowls, 3 all-pro) - 33.5
Gross (3 pro-bowls, first team all-pro) - 33.25
Peters (9 pro-bowls, 2 all-pro) - 33.125
Penn (3 pro-bowls) - 33
It's very rare for a guy to be successful with shorter arms, but not impossible. These examples all have longer arms than Gates, but not the 34+ inch length many think is necessary. Ereck Flowers' 34.5 inch arms didn't help him much.
Also one of the knocks on Evan Brown was that he needed to get much stronger to make it in the nfl.
I think Asafo-Adjei will end up on IR.
It must be romantic love. It certainly can't be love of the way he plays pro football.
Oh, wait...this explains it.
Quote:
It's not romantic love or anything like that, but he's much more valuable to the team than many give him credit for.
It must be romantic love. It certainly can't be love of the way he plays pro football.
Oh, wait...this explains it.
Pulley isn't much better, and I have no idea about O'Hagan. I think Halapio can be okay - not great, but okay - but God help us if he gets hurt again.
He can be known as G-Rex.
That said I love the interior. Feel comfy with LT and mediocre at RT. Far cry from the last too many years.
...
Careful, you are making judgements about OL play from watching the game on TV! Fatman will be here shortly to tell you don't know shit from watching it. You can't tell anything about OL play from watching and not know the line calls...
I'm sure you can guess what I think of his opinion! Pffft... I appreciate the POV, thanks.
It's too easy to watch a game on tv and think we know what's going on.
It's too easy to watch a game on tv and think we know what's going on.
I believe there is so much more going on in the game than any of us have a clue about from watching TV.
I also believe many of the loudest voices amongst Giants fans don't watch as much football as they should to validate their opinions. What football observations are made are often posted as facts.
I know enough to know I don't know much, which is why I generally ask other more knowledgeable posters to chime in with their viewpoints. I'm just a fan with limited access to the Giants, and welcome all insights from those who are willing to teach/share. As a result my time spent on this site as a percentage of my time spent learning about football continue to shrink. I find I'm learning so much more from Twitter and YouTube than I am on BBI threads. Even on a thread specifically title OL conversation where the OP asks for opinions on the backups receives very few substantive comments here.
The day may come where this site becomes a fly-by for me, a place to check for rumors & little else when I'm bored.
Ditto for Chad Slade, who was primarily a RG in college (and for a few games with Houston...RG, 3rd TE), but who did play some RT, LT, and LG as well.
To be honest, against the Jets I thought they'd be disastrous but they were very far from that. I know it was against backups, for the most part, but they did a lot better than I expected (at least in pass-protection - not so much in run-blocking). Color me shocked.
I really like the direction the Giants are going up front with Barkley at TB. This is more like their big power lines of the late 80's/early 90's than the technicians of the 2000's.
I rewatched the Jets game focusing on the interior OL and both Hernandez and Zeitler were excellent. Halapio is physical and always looking to hit somebody. There is going to be some solid inside running room - catalyst to any offense.