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When did Edge officially become a position?

jimvinct : 8/13/2019 1:02 pm
And what happened to outside linebackers? Why is there an all of a sudden need for distinction? I would think NFL defenses would want a player whom can rush the passer, set the edge....err contain in the run game, and can be trusted to drop into coverage. To me, Edge sounds like a position that gets after the passer and not much more. A one trick pony. Was the term created by beat writers and draftniks trying to be creative and trendy, or is it a legitimate term that scouts and D coordinators use?
eh, semantics and draftniks  
JonC : 8/13/2019 1:07 pm : link
It's the outside linebacker position.
I think the distinction is not as relevant anymore  
Mike from Ohio : 8/13/2019 1:08 pm : link
as defenses present different looks that morph between a traditional 3-4 and a traditional 4-3. I don't think Edge is meant to say that all they do is rush the passer, but where they line up.
it's  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/13/2019 1:09 pm : link
replaced the outside linebackers designation in a 3-4 defense, who also can play 4-3 end. As JonC said, it's more semantics.
welcome to branding, haha  
UConn4523 : 8/13/2019 1:11 pm : link
the NFL is a company and they are going to modernize whatever they can. New buzzwords and things to market are a huge part of it.
It's Practical  
ltbeatsall56 : 8/13/2019 1:12 pm : link
If you say someone is a DE, does that mean a 3/4 or a 4/3 DE? If you say someone is an edge you know they are going to be a pass rusher in either system. 3/4 DE are more like nose tackles. So its easier to say someone is an edge rather than DE or OLB because they could be either of those positions in different schemes but with the same goal of rushing the passer.
RE: it's  
Del Shofner : 8/13/2019 1:19 pm : link
In comment 14529176 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
replaced the outside linebackers designation in a 3-4 defense, who also can play 4-3 end. As JonC said, it's more semantics.


This. As I understand it, it's a player who can play OL in a 3-4 and also play DE in a 4-3. As to whether a new term was needed for this, I have no view.
RE: It's Practical  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/13/2019 1:19 pm : link
In comment 14529183 ltbeatsall56 said:
Quote:
If you say someone is a DE, does that mean a 3/4 or a 4/3 DE? If you say someone is an edge you know they are going to be a pass rusher in either system. 3/4 DE are more like nose tackles. So its easier to say someone is an edge rather than DE or OLB because they could be either of those positions in different schemes but with the same goal of rushing the passer.


That's a good way to look at it. In terms of the Giants, it would be the delineating factor between say B.J. Hill and Markus Golden.
RE: It's Practical  
jimvinct : 8/13/2019 1:28 pm : link
In comment 14529183 ltbeatsall56 said:
Quote:
If you say someone is a DE, does that mean a 3/4 or a 4/3 DE? If you say someone is an edge you know they are going to be a pass rusher in either system. 3/4 DE are more like nose tackles. So its easier to say someone is an edge rather than DE or OLB because they could be either of those positions in different schemes but with the same goal of rushing the passer.


Would you consider Kiwanuka an Edge if he were playing today? If a guy is coming every play then hes really just a DE, right?
I think it was about 5 years ago...  
Dan in the Springs : 8/13/2019 1:39 pm : link
I think it really was about the time that Von Miller started tearing things up in Denver that I first started hearing the term Edge defender used regularly. Prior to that they were listed as OLB on all the NFL sites.
Correct me if I'm wrong  
Leg of Theismann : 8/13/2019 1:57 pm : link
But I assume it came about when NFL defenses started switching up between 3-4 and 4-3 more often. If I remember correctly, defenses used to be more or less classified as one or the other and it was more often than not a 4-3. Now for the most part defenses have so many different packages, guys have to be able to multi-task.

Also, NFL athletes are becoming so physically-gifted that they can do more things. It's more common now to see a 260-270 lb guy who can run a 4.5 40 and be able to cover, rush the passer, and stop the run to respectable degrees. Thus, these guys are known as "EDGE" players in general, rather than simply OLB or Defensive End.

Does that sound right?
Historically  
Matt in SGS : 8/13/2019 2:32 pm : link
you would consider Charles Haley and Chris Doleman to be edge players, maybe even Richard Dent. LT didn't really do the same thing since he could drop in coverage, which is something you almost never saw Haley or Doleman do.
Semantics and the lines have blurred between 3-4 and 4-3  
AcesUp : 8/13/2019 2:37 pm : link
Most teams are rarely in base sets and there's a strong trend towards multiple front hybrid looks. It's simply an easier and more accurate descriptor than 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB as defenses and defenders aren't nearly as static as they used to be.
I could be wrong but I think Mike Mayock was the guy who started  
Rjanyg : 8/13/2019 2:47 pm : link
using the term, at the very least made it popular.

I am of the belief that with more and more teams using 5 DB on most downs taking a LB off the field and the reality that the 3-4 defense is basically a defense that utilized more LB's than DL's, most teams are using a 4-2-5 defense with DE's that may also be OLB.

RE: I think it was about 5 years ago...  
Mike in Long Beach : 8/13/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14529212 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
I think it really was about the time that Von Miller started tearing things up in Denver that I first started hearing the term Edge defender used regularly. Prior to that they were listed as OLB on all the NFL sites.


I think this is the right answer. Semantics as it may be, there still was a point where the (somewhat arbitrary) designation became an official position. I think Dan has it right.
'When did Edge officially become a position?'...  
Torrag : 8/13/2019 2:52 pm : link
When Mike Mayock made it one.
Pass rushers in a 4-3 are defensive ends, while in a 3-4 they're the  
Ira : 8/13/2019 2:54 pm : link
outside linebackers. I guess the term Edge as a position, was made to include all pass rushing prospects.
It's like a Polar Vortex  
Rico : 8/13/2019 3:00 pm : link
Who ever heard of that until about 5 years ago? It's the weather channel trying to boost ratings.

Last year a heard of the Siberian Express to describe a cold front. People are always trying to invent new names for shit.
Edge  
tmanic21 : 8/13/2019 3:54 pm : link
Its a legitimate terms that teams use at all levels for a variety of reasons mentioned. The blurred lines between fronts have come down to what the outside man on the line of scrimmage is being asked to do, vs the "system" that he plays in. Right now 60-70% of snaps are going to be in some sort of Nickel or Dime. That means you are taking off a LB type playe r and inserting a DB...

OR...

Have a HYBRID that is basically one in the same.

But the fronts that go with these nickel packages are mostly 4 men on the LOS, in an over or under front. The edge rusher is blurred because it does not necessarily matter what "base" the defense plays in. Please see Big Blue Banter on t his subject from about a month ago where I break down the fronts and what people should expect from the Giants
One difference is pays of cash.  
mrvax : 8/13/2019 4:25 pm : link
An OLB can be had for a reasonable amount of money while a player designated as "Edge" is usually making elite gob
That was bad - try again:  
mrvax : 8/13/2019 4:27 pm : link
One difference is pay

An OLB can be had for a reasonable amount of money while a player designated as "Edge" is usually making elite gobs of cash.
I'd say it's a result of defenses becoming more multiple  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/13/2019 4:31 pm : link
and complex as a result of advancement in offensive ideas. I don't think it's branding or buzzwords. The game is different than it was in 1985. Players have to be more versatile than just. "I play Outside Linebacker" or "I'm a strong safety".

RE: RE: It's Practical  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/13/2019 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14529200 jimvinct said:
Quote:
In comment 14529183 ltbeatsall56 said:


Quote:


If you say someone is a DE, does that mean a 3/4 or a 4/3 DE? If you say someone is an edge you know they are going to be a pass rusher in either system. 3/4 DE are more like nose tackles. So its easier to say someone is an edge rather than DE or OLB because they could be either of those positions in different schemes but with the same goal of rushing the passer.



Would you consider Kiwanuka an Edge if he were playing today? If a guy is coming every play then hes really just a DE, right?

He's "really just a DE" in a 4-3 (that isn't overloaded with other 4-3 ends, I suppose). But that's the point - guys get pigeonholed on position based on what scheme their teams play. 3-4 rush OLB is essentially the same position as weakside DE in a 4-3, but they carried different position designations before. If you were only using "DE" as the position, you'd be comparing Leonard Marshall with Jevon Kearse. Does that seem reasonable? Or should the nomenclature evolve to match the role or the position, agnostic of scheme?
RE: RE: I think it was about 5 years ago...  
flycatcher : 8/13/2019 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14529295 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
In comment 14529212 Dan in the Springs said:


Quote:


I think it really was about the time that Von Miller started tearing things up in Denver that I first started hearing the term Edge defender used regularly. Prior to that they were listed as OLB on all the NFL sites.



I think this is the right answer. Semantics as it may be, there still was a point where the (somewhat arbitrary) designation became an official position. I think Dan has it right.

I was thinking Terrell Suggs too
Its been a position for awhile in the NFL  
Jimmy Googs : 8/13/2019 9:18 pm : link
though our Giants are still trying to figure out whether it makes sense to acknowledge it...
3-4  
watertown : 8/13/2019 9:58 pm : link
You rarely saw it 10-15 years ago. I think the Steelers were the only team in a 3-4 base. With so many hybrid looks, are we considered a pure 3-4? So many teams live in nickel as well.
LT was an Edge; Carl Banks was an outside linebacker  
WillieYoung : 8/14/2019 8:57 am : link
Not all 3-4 outside linebackers are Edge rushers.
...well there really was never a guitarist like him before...  
x meadowlander : 8/14/2019 9:18 am : link
...his low-profile playing filled out all of U2's songs, between Bono's beautiful and soaring vocals and the simple, military rhythms Mullen and Clayton provided, Edge created dynamic and beautiful waves of arpeggios and reverb, layered on his unique pick attack (Edge often uses the dimpled side of a Dunlop pick to achieve that scraping tone).


So yeah, when you say Edge, it can only mean one thing. :)
RE: LT was an Edge; Carl Banks was an outside linebacker  
x meadowlander : 8/14/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14529859 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
Not all 3-4 outside linebackers are Edge rushers.
I find the position labelling odd. In a 4-3, you want to call the DE Edge, fine with me, but if it's a OLB, they better be able to do more than rush the passer. They're responsible for much more than that.
RE: ...well there really was never a guitarist like him before...  
Gruber : 8/14/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14529873 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...his low-profile playing filled out all of U2's songs, between Bono's beautiful and soaring vocals and the simple, military rhythms Mullen and Clayton provided, Edge created dynamic and beautiful waves of arpeggios and reverb, layered on his unique pick attack (Edge often uses the dimpled side of a Dunlop pick to achieve that scraping tone).


So yeah, when you say Edge, it can only mean one thing. :)


This is not relevant to anything, but I can't resist it: did you know that the Edge was actually born in London to a Welsh family? They moved to Dublin when he was young.
RE: RE: ...well there really was never a guitarist like him before...  
x meadowlander : 8/14/2019 11:03 am : link
In comment 14529966 Gruber said:
Quote:
In comment 14529873 x meadowlander said:


Quote:


...his low-profile playing filled out all of U2's songs, between Bono's beautiful and soaring vocals and the simple, military rhythms Mullen and Clayton provided, Edge created dynamic and beautiful waves of arpeggios and reverb, layered on his unique pick attack (Edge often uses the dimpled side of a Dunlop pick to achieve that scraping tone).


So yeah, when you say Edge, it can only mean one thing. :)



This is not relevant to anything, but I can't resist it: did you know that the Edge was actually born in London to a Welsh family? They moved to Dublin when he was young.
He's one of the guitar players I didn't truly appreciate til' I learned a few of his parts.

A master of technique and effects implementation.
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