BAL
Hanser Alberto (R) 3B
Trey Mancini (R) 1B
Anthony Santander (S) RF
Renato Nunez (R) DH
Jonathan Villar (S) 2B
Pedro Severino (R) C
Jace Peterson (L) LF
Stevie Wilkerson (S) CF
Richie Martin (R) SS
Bundy vs. Happ
There, now people can stop complaining about Valera over Estrada Â
Estrada's now #90. He was #30 but Eddie E got that when he came on board.
Damn. Had a money number... that's a tough turn.
Also, does it drive anyone else crazy when they go to the stadium and see so many jerseys with names on the back?
I don't mean the player tee's - those are fine. But actual jerseys.
I see so many #7's and #3's with Mantle and Ruth on the back and it feels sacrilegious.
I guess I get it for the young kids who want Judge's name on their jersey (even though even the most casual of fans would know who 99 was... ) or whatever - they want their favorite players' name on there, but the old timers should know better!
yes, those are stupid and the people who buy them should be ashamed Â
Can't stand it. If they can't beat Happ, the O's are worse than I thought -- or just so stunned by the last four that they can't do it, even for this last of the season. If I get home in time, maybe I'll catch those crucial last innings (though the late magic has been missing lately because it hasn't been necessary against the hapless O's and just wasn't there in those awful Fenway disasters or the terrible two losses to Jays, with Happ starting in the first of those).
RE: yes, those are stupid and the people who buy them should be ashamed Â
- Judge smoked the ball a few times....including two pulled balls. He may be ready to go off on a hot streak.
- Tauchman looks like a really good ball player. Great AB's, great defense and he's shockingly fast for his size/build.
- This team really likes each other and has a blast playing together. After the 3rd out when they are on defense they play this little game where as they are running to the dugout they toss the ball around to each other in funny and creative ways....everyone gets a touch on the ball and then the last guy throws it to a fan. It's hard to really describe....was almost like a Harlem Globetrotters thing but it's clear they are having a lot of fun with each other.
- I caught a ball in batting practice, and holy smokes is the ball different this year (I've got a bunch of balls from past years). The seams are way tighter and smoother than in prior years. My first reaction when holding the ball was that it must be some type of practice ball cause it felt so weird but it's was a regulation ball.
- I caught a ball in batting practice, and holy smokes is the ball different this year (I've got a bunch of balls from past years). The seams are way tighter and smoother than in prior years. My first reaction when holding the ball was that it must be some type of practice ball cause it felt so weird but it's was a regulation ball.
and this is why a)balls are flying out of parks b)Tanaka has struggled.
- I caught a ball in batting practice, and holy smokes is the ball different this year (I've got a bunch of balls from past years). The seams are way tighter and smoother than in prior years. My first reaction when holding the ball was that it must be some type of practice ball cause it felt so weird but it's was a regulation ball.
and this is why a)balls are flying out of parks b)Tanaka has struggled.
I think this why both Paxton and Happ have struggled, too.
They had a shot of a Mantle jersey in one of the windows during the game a few days ago, and it had the name on the back. Coney wasn't having it.
It just looks so weird. It's one thing if it's a team like the Red Sox or Giants who have jerseys with both.. names and no names.... but for the Yankees it just looks gross.
- I caught a ball in batting practice, and holy smokes is the ball different this year (I've got a bunch of balls from past years). The seams are way tighter and smoother than in prior years. My first reaction when holding the ball was that it must be some type of practice ball cause it felt so weird but it's was a regulation ball.
and this is why a)balls are flying out of parks b)Tanaka has struggled.
Gotta fix the f%^&ing seams. It's a big mistake to have allowed them to change. Or, worse, to have done it intentionally. Someone needs to get to the bottom of that and fired. Ballparks are the size they are and can't be changed, like the ball. Now everything is being hit out by players who never could have done it with the old ball -- or not so often. And it screws up pitchers. Give us back the traditional game!
So, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER with a projected WRC+ above 110 (except Torres) have underperformed, largely due to injuries. But But EVERY SINGLE PLAYER with a projected WRC+ below 110 has overperformed (except Sanchez and Gregorious, again due to injuries). Has any team ever had anything like this, where all of the stars are scuffling and all of the scrubs are vastly overperforming?
What a crazy season. 80-41 despite not getting a whole lot from the guys we expected.
and certainly not since he returned from the IL. I hope we get to see him and Stanton this season because the way the balls are flying, it's a shame for them to miss out on the fun.
I think he's toughing this out - I don't expect to see the real Judge until 2020.
But, I do think he's in a little bit of a slump that he'll get out of and has shown some recent signs of hopefully doing so.
.
His mechanics aren't helping out as well, at times he is dipping that back shoulder, which means he comes around the ball more.
Is that a result of his earlier injury this season?
I can't answer that for sure, but at times,
he is not driving the ball...
Mechanics often suffer when a player is compensating for an injury. I imagine that's part of the problem here.
Judge will never tell anyone that he's hurting - he wants to play and he wants to contribute, and he's the last guy who will ever make an excuse. But, I do think the oblique is bugging him. We should expect that to be the case... we knew when it happened that it was going to be something he'd need to deal with until he really had the full offseason to heal and recover. So, it's not like it should be catching anyone off-guard.
That said... Aaron Judge @ 85% is still better than the majority of players in baseball and I think he will break out of this little slump he's in and start contributing more.
Will he be the 50 HR, elite monster of a player we've seen in the past? Probably not until 2020. But I still think Judge will be better than he's been lately and it'll be sooner than later.
Is there anyone who enjoys what he contributes to the booth?
Flash is my least favorite by a pretty wide margin.
I just see "Devil Rays" and get virtually nothing from his commentary.
I see that and a former player that doesn't have the confidence necessary to engage an audience of indeterminate size. When he is with Paulie it's even more apparent.
I can't believe we are stuck with Happ. If we end up needing him to win games in October there is going to be one pissed of fan-base.
Look at his numbers. ERA and HRs are WAY above his career highs because of the baseball. He knows anything he throws over the plate is going to get crushed and there is not anything he can do about it. It kills me that they are knowingly ruining what was a great game.
I will gladly take the 1 run... I will not gladly take the pitch count, loading the bases, or the 2 out hits.
Sigh...
Not sure if we should not really mind the baseballs they're using this year or be annoyed about it.
It feels like it's playing a negative role for Tanaka and Happ in particular. But it might also be helping hitters like Urshela, Tauchman and Maybin and be part of why their numbers are so far above what anyone would have expected.
Sonny Gray was bad, but he had the talent and made less than half as much money.
My thoughts as well as Happ struggled through the first inning. Gray is having quite a bounce back year in Cincy (7-6 record, 3.10 era, 1.128 WHIP).
Because Gray isn't past his prime. Happ was old before the season started and I would have thought it clear and obvious that it was highly unlikely we were going to get value at the price point they paid him at. Whatever, it's done.
I think it was on RAB around his signing was that analytics showed he was due for a decline. But, with his success last year, I guess the FO overlooked it and brought him back. Hell, I thought it would be a good idea too to bring him back, though I didn’t agree with the money and would’ve preferred adding another starter over bringing back CC with all his health issues.
The diving to 1B just never makes sense to me... I don't get why players do it.
All it does is increase the chance of injury
Gardner actually looked like he was a little roughed up when he walked back to the dugout. I'm sure he's fine - but yeah, it literally does nothing but maybe increase the odds of the player getting hurt. They don't get to the bag any faster that way. I think it's been pretty well-established by now... yet, we still see players try it every few games.
at extremely hittable 3rd strikes for almost a month now. Not like they are close and many are "right there" to be crushed. Never saw him guess before and that is what it looks like he is doing.
ago about how moving closer to the plate has contributed to Cody Bellinger's breakout this year, I've been wondering if Judge could stand to move a few inches closer himself.
He looks at a ton of pitchers on the outer half/third. He's got enough room that moving 3-5 inches closer would leave anything too inside for him to like still off the plate, and he'd find those outer third pitches so much more attractive to drive.
He's getting hot as he has in previous Augusts. Hope we're in store for one of his monster hot streaks.
That would be so sweet. And just in time, since I don't think Gardy, Urshela, and Tauchman can stay as hot as they've been lately. We'll need a new guy to step up and carry the load.
with not his finest moment handling the BP, but they got a sweep. Cessa should have been out, before giving up a
2 run double to Nunez (one of his 5 hits), Ottavino comes
in to face the lefty, gives up a hit, now a one run game.
BTW> Ottavino struggles a lot more against lefties.
You get away with it against the odorous O's, but I'm
looking ahead to October, and they might not get away
with that BP maneuvering then, just saying.
Again, glad they got a sweep, but you can't ignore the
moves today.
As I feared I would. Happ was better, but Cessa has reverted to being Cessa, I see. Scored just enough to keep it away from the O's, which is enough, and got a great ending from Chapman. A game. Another win.
has slashed his K rate from 25.2% last year to 20.8% this year (MLB average is 22.8%). It's fun to see a 22-year-old making these types of improvements and adjustments.
This guy needs to be better when he comes into a game with guys on base. It feels like every time he comes in he gives up hits and those runs get charged to other pitchers
Only here will you find complaints about Adam Ottavino.
Sub-2 ERA, striking out nearly 13 per 9. One of the best middle relievers in baseball this year. But, he let a couple of inherited runners score, so...
It's amazing the way people just continually force themselves to search for things to complain about or nitpick.
The Yankees have the best record in baseball and are neck and neck with HOU/LA despite being without literally half their baseball team for about half of this season to date.
Are the Yankees perfect or indestructible? Of course not. But when we're starting to complain about Ottavino, I think we're probably in pretty damn good shape.
As Mariano Rivera said, “those guys get paid too”. He was great in part because he didn’t expect perfection out of himself, and respected players on opposing teams too.
RE: here's 42 seconds of horrendous low strikes on Judge Â
Amazing how many of those were on three ball counts too. Just giving the pitcher more chances. A bunch of them he was about to throw the bat to the dugout and he had to stop himself. Can't believe he hasn't gone apeshit yet.
While the record of the 1998 team is absolutely amazing and this team although tremendous would be 11 games back of the 98 team...would the 98 team have been able to come within this teams record with this teams injuries ( especially to its pitching staff)?
I grant its another: Whose better Wille, Mickey or the Duke? kinds of questions, but "amazing team" is the right common description either way.
While the record of the 1998 team is absolutely amazing and this team although tremendous would be 11 games back of the 98 team...would the 98 team have been able to come within this teams record with this teams injuries ( especially to its pitching staff)?
I grant its another: Whose better Wille, Mickey or the Duke? kinds of questions, but "amazing team" is the right common description either way.
Hope you are well my friend
The injury situation makes this team's accomplishments incomparable.
Very well indeed. Be a lot better when I finally finish my masters - night school is for the birds.
That's absolutely true. There's a sense of wonder with this team that wasn't there in '98. While no one expected 114 wins, people DID expect that team to be the best in baseball. They were primed for a huge year and they delivered even beyond those expectations.
But yeah, the only notable injury they incurred was Chili Davis missing most of the season. So there's a magical kind of feeling this '19 crew has that's all its own.
Minor news... The Yankees have signed reliever David Hernandez to a minor league deal. Hernandez has been awful this year, but he was very good last year.
Down the stretch there will be auditions for the playoff roster Â
The top five in the bullpen are written in stone : Green, Kahnle, Britton, Ottavino, and Chapman. If Betances is healthy, he'll have one as well. Beyond those guys, spots are open.
RE: Down the stretch there will be auditions for the playoff roster Â
The top five in the bullpen are written in stone : Green, Kahnle, Britton, Ottavino, and Chapman. If Betances is healthy, he'll have one as well. Beyond those guys, spots are open.
Interesting from Sherman re Montgomery:
The Yankees do not need Labor Day wizardry from Severino. Their big AL East cushion allows a steady progression. Rosters will expand in September to better protect Severino, perhaps with Betances and even Jordan Montgomery, who Cashman noted actually is ahead of Severino as he returns from Tommy John surgery.
The goal is to stretch Severino to 90 pitches by October, prepare a talent who can navigate a strong lineup more than two times due to overwhelming stuff.
Estrada's now #90. He was #30 but Eddie E got that when he came on board.
Could be a delay but I think they'll get the game in.
Quote:
.
Estrada's now #90. He was #30 but Eddie E got that when he came on board.
Damn. Had a money number... that's a tough turn.
Also, does it drive anyone else crazy when they go to the stadium and see so many jerseys with names on the back?
I don't mean the player tee's - those are fine. But actual jerseys.
I see so many #7's and #3's with Mantle and Ruth on the back and it feels sacrilegious.
I guess I get it for the young kids who want Judge's name on their jersey (even though even the most casual of fans would know who 99 was... ) or whatever - they want their favorite players' name on there, but the old timers should know better!
yep...that's bizarre
Quote:
Shirseys are acceptable with a name on the back, but never an actual jersey
yep...that's bizarre
I agree. If you don't know who #4 is on my jersey, then don't know what to tell you.
- Tauchman looks like a really good ball player. Great AB's, great defense and he's shockingly fast for his size/build.
- This team really likes each other and has a blast playing together. After the 3rd out when they are on defense they play this little game where as they are running to the dugout they toss the ball around to each other in funny and creative ways....everyone gets a touch on the ball and then the last guy throws it to a fan. It's hard to really describe....was almost like a Harlem Globetrotters thing but it's clear they are having a lot of fun with each other.
- I caught a ball in batting practice, and holy smokes is the ball different this year (I've got a bunch of balls from past years). The seams are way tighter and smoother than in prior years. My first reaction when holding the ball was that it must be some type of practice ball cause it felt so weird but it's was a regulation ball.
and this is why a)balls are flying out of parks b)Tanaka has struggled.
Quote:
- I caught a ball in batting practice, and holy smokes is the ball different this year (I've got a bunch of balls from past years). The seams are way tighter and smoother than in prior years. My first reaction when holding the ball was that it must be some type of practice ball cause it felt so weird but it's was a regulation ball.
and this is why a)balls are flying out of parks b)Tanaka has struggled.
Woof.
They had a shot of a Mantle jersey in one of the windows during the game a few days ago, and it had the name on the back. Coney wasn't having it.
It just looks so weird. It's one thing if it's a team like the Red Sox or Giants who have jerseys with both.. names and no names.... but for the Yankees it just looks gross.
Doubt it. It's been an unfortunate constant in Judge's career since the day he was called up from Scranton.
Quote:
we can hope that it will eliminate the shitty strike calls against him.
Doubt it. It's been an unfortunate constant in Judge's career since the day he was called up from Scranton.
Yeah..I fear that's the case but one can hope. Regardless, this lineup will be sick should he return to himself.
Quote:
- I caught a ball in batting practice, and holy smokes is the ball different this year (I've got a bunch of balls from past years). The seams are way tighter and smoother than in prior years. My first reaction when holding the ball was that it must be some type of practice ball cause it felt so weird but it's was a regulation ball.
and this is why a)balls are flying out of parks b)Tanaka has struggled.
Gotta fix the f%^&ing seams. It's a big mistake to have allowed them to change. Or, worse, to have done it intentionally. Someone needs to get to the bottom of that and fired. Ballparks are the size they are and can't be changed, like the ball. Now everything is being hit out by players who never could have done it with the old ball -- or not so often. And it screws up pitchers. Give us back the traditional game!
LeMahieu: 141 / 103
Torres: 124 / 111
Voit: 134 / 109
Gardner: 115 / 99
Urshela: 151 / 97
Sanchez: 104 / 109
Judge: 126 / 136
Hicks: 100 / 111
Tauchmann: 148 / 90
Frazier: 115 / 93
Gregorious: 88 / 99
Maybin: 141 / 90
Romine: 84 / 79
Encarnacion: 112 / 125
So, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER with a projected WRC+ above 110 (except Torres) have underperformed, largely due to injuries. But But EVERY SINGLE PLAYER with a projected WRC+ below 110 has overperformed (except Sanchez and Gregorious, again due to injuries). Has any team ever had anything like this, where all of the stars are scuffling and all of the scrubs are vastly overperforming?
What a crazy season. 80-41 despite not getting a whole lot from the guys we expected.
...was looking at his first full season and he sure jacked a lot of balls into left center field and into the left field stands.
That's my feeling as well.
I think he's toughing this out - I don't expect to see the real Judge until 2020.
But, I do think he's in a little bit of a slump that he'll get out of and has shown some recent signs of hopefully doing so.
Quote:
and probably will all season.
That's my feeling as well.
I think he's toughing this out - I don't expect to see the real Judge until 2020.
But, I do think he's in a little bit of a slump that he'll get out of and has shown some recent signs of hopefully doing so.
His mechanics aren't helping out as well, at times he is dipping that back shoulder, which means he comes around the ball more.
Is that a result of his earlier injury this season?
I can't answer that for sure, but at times,
he is not driving the ball...
Judge will never tell anyone that he's hurting - he wants to play and he wants to contribute, and he's the last guy who will ever make an excuse. But, I do think the oblique is bugging him. We should expect that to be the case... we knew when it happened that it was going to be something he'd need to deal with until he really had the full offseason to heal and recover. So, it's not like it should be catching anyone off-guard.
That said... Aaron Judge @ 85% is still better than the majority of players in baseball and I think he will break out of this little slump he's in and start contributing more.
Will he be the 50 HR, elite monster of a player we've seen in the past? Probably not until 2020. But I still think Judge will be better than he's been lately and it'll be sooner than later.
1.
Should be back this weekend.
1.
No wonder whenever I look at the standings the lead has been the around the same, lol
Michael Kay (Vocal Chord Surgery) will be expected to rejoin the club by the end of the week. He is not expected to require a rehab assignment.
Is there anyone who enjoys what he contributes to the booth?
Is there anyone who enjoys what he contributes to the booth?
Flash is my least favorite by a pretty wide margin.
I just see "Devil Rays" and get virtually nothing from his commentary.
Quote:
really?
Is there anyone who enjoys what he contributes to the booth?
Flash is my least favorite by a pretty wide margin.
I just see "Devil Rays" and get virtually nothing from his commentary.
I see that and a former player that doesn't have the confidence necessary to engage an audience of indeterminate size. When he is with Paulie it's even more apparent.
I can't believe we are stuck with Happ. If we end up needing him to win games in October there is going to be one pissed of fan-base.
1-0, Baltimore.
1-0, Baltimore.
Just be grateful it didn't get any worse.
Sigh...
Not sure if we should not really mind the baseballs they're using this year or be annoyed about it.
It feels like it's playing a negative role for Tanaka and Happ in particular. But it might also be helping hitters like Urshela, Tauchman and Maybin and be part of why their numbers are so far above what anyone would have expected.
1-1.
4-1.
Quote:
Sonny Gray was bad, but he had the talent and made less than half as much money.
My thoughts as well as Happ struggled through the first inning. Gray is having quite a bounce back year in Cincy (7-6 record, 3.10 era, 1.128 WHIP).
Because Gray isn't past his prime. Happ was old before the season started and I would have thought it clear and obvious that it was highly unlikely we were going to get value at the price point they paid him at. Whatever, it's done.
Let's just get him a good 20 runs of support.
All it does is increase the chance of injury
Quote:
The diving to 1B just never makes sense to me... I don't get why players do it.
All it does is increase the chance of injury
It is slower, and the only thing it does is prevent from being tagged out. But no it does not make sense.
Quote:
The diving to 1B just never makes sense to me... I don't get why players do it.
All it does is increase the chance of injury
Gardner actually looked like he was a little roughed up when he walked back to the dugout. I'm sure he's fine - but yeah, it literally does nothing but maybe increase the odds of the player getting hurt. They don't get to the bag any faster that way. I think it's been pretty well-established by now... yet, we still see players try it every few games.
It is slower, and the only thing it does is prevent from being tagged out. But no it does not make sense.
And it's not like you can tell that the throw will be off and that you'll want to avoid a tag anyway.
9 pitch inning.
I remember seeing him pitch opening night for the A's in Tokyo - but that was probably the only time I can really remember.
He had a very good 2016. Mostly trash since then.
He looks at a ton of pitchers on the outer half/third. He's got enough room that moving 3-5 inches closer would leave anything too inside for him to like still off the plate, and he'd find those outer third pitches so much more attractive to drive.
DJLM told him to back off and not to out hit him....
Tack on some runs, men.
I was waiting on this comment.
And now he's 5-5... unbelievable...
5 for 5. Come on man!
Shouldn't have been that close, but put another W in the books. Can't wait to be 20 up on Boston.
That would be so sweet. And just in time, since I don't think Gardy, Urshela, and Tauchman can stay as hot as they've been lately. We'll need a new guy to step up and carry the load.
Think about that - as awesome as this team has been, they'd be 11 games back of the '98 Yankees. Dayum.
Think about that - as awesome as this team has been, they'd be 11 games back of the '98 Yankees. Dayum.
That's crazy. What a team that was.
Link - ( New Window )
1.
Love this one.
2 run double to Nunez (one of his 5 hits), Ottavino comes
in to face the lefty, gives up a hit, now a one run game.
BTW> Ottavino struggles a lot more against lefties.
You get away with it against the odorous O's, but I'm
looking ahead to October, and they might not get away
with that BP maneuvering then, just saying.
Again, glad they got a sweep, but you can't ignore the
moves today.
It is. Maybe he is semi-healthy where half his body doesn't hurt. He is beast when he gets going.
Quote:
Ouch... Tampa has won 14 of their last 17 and here's how many games they gained on NYY in that timeframe...
1.
Love this one.
@ktsharp
·
5m
At least 25 HR, 20 doubles, 40 walks by SS/2B Age 22 or younger in AL History:
Gleyber Torres (2019)
Alex Rodriguez (1998, '96)
Cal Ripken Jr (1983, '82)
Quote:
He's getting hot as he has in previous Augusts. Hope we're in store for one of his monster hot streaks.
It is. Maybe he is semi-healthy where half his body doesn't hurt. He is beast when he gets going.
Well, that and when he doesn't try to play hero ball,
and try and do too much...he's his own worst enemy
at times when he is slumping.
Quote:
In comment 14530193 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Ouch... Tampa has won 14 of their last 17 and here's how many games they gained on NYY in that timeframe...
1.
Love this one.
If Tampa is to make a race out of it, these next ten games are key. Yankees are facing teams with winning records, the Rays are facing cupcakes.
You mean the part where Tampa plays the Indians, the Astros, and L.A. -- or the other part with the Red Sox and Yankees in it?
Quote:
In comment 14530436 Percy said:
Quote:
In comment 14530193 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Ouch... Tampa has won 14 of their last 17 and here's how many games they gained on NYY in that timeframe...
1.
Love this one.
If Tampa is to make a race out of it, these next ten games are key. Yankees are facing teams with winning records, the Rays are facing cupcakes.
You mean the part where Tampa plays the Indians, the Astros, and L.A. -- or the other part with the Red Sox and Yankees in it?
Well, you did say next ten days, true. And those won't be very threatening, I agree.
Also, props to Jints on another sweep. Keep it going, brother.
Sub-2 ERA, striking out nearly 13 per 9. One of the best middle relievers in baseball this year. But, he let a couple of inherited runners score, so...
It's amazing the way people just continually force themselves to search for things to complain about or nitpick.
The Yankees have the best record in baseball and are neck and neck with HOU/LA despite being without literally half their baseball team for about half of this season to date.
Are the Yankees perfect or indestructible? Of course not. But when we're starting to complain about Ottavino, I think we're probably in pretty damn good shape.
You know the Yanks are doing well when it's quiet on the "smh!" front!
LOL
Amazing how many of those were on three ball counts too. Just giving the pitcher more chances. A bunch of them he was about to throw the bat to the dugout and he had to stop himself. Can't believe he hasn't gone apeshit yet.
I grant its another: Whose better Wille, Mickey or the Duke? kinds of questions, but "amazing team" is the right common description either way.
Hope you are well my friend
Lost 2 straight to the White Sox. Even good teams lose to bad teams...
I grant its another: Whose better Wille, Mickey or the Duke? kinds of questions, but "amazing team" is the right common description either way.
Hope you are well my friend
The injury situation makes this team's accomplishments incomparable.
That's absolutely true. There's a sense of wonder with this team that wasn't there in '98. While no one expected 114 wins, people DID expect that team to be the best in baseball. They were primed for a huge year and they delivered even beyond those expectations.
But yeah, the only notable injury they incurred was Chili Davis missing most of the season. So there's a magical kind of feeling this '19 crew has that's all its own.
Interesting from Sherman re Montgomery:
The Yankees do not need Labor Day wizardry from Severino. Their big AL East cushion allows a steady progression. Rosters will expand in September to better protect Severino, perhaps with Betances and even Jordan Montgomery, who Cashman noted actually is ahead of Severino as he returns from Tommy John surgery.
The goal is to stretch Severino to 90 pitches by October, prepare a talent who can navigate a strong lineup more than two times due to overwhelming stuff.