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in your opinion - What was the worst Management Giants move?

DavidinBMNY : 8/15/2019 8:58 am
There are many good ones to choose from.

My opinion, is promoting Jerry Reese to general manager. He made a lot of decisions that set the franchise back, including hiring Marc Ross. Reese's built the team based on athletic playmakers, ignored the OL, failed on every late round pick (outside Bradshaw), gambled on a lot of players with previous injuries who only lasted 1 contract. I still remember when they drafted David Wilson I said "Luxury pick. We're not that good."

What do you think was the worst management decision?
Doesn't it have to be Handley  
pjcas18 : 8/15/2019 8:59 am : link
over Belichick?
.  
skifaster : 8/15/2019 9:01 am : link
Hiring Ray Handley as Head Coach
George Young deciding Belichick  
mfsd : 8/15/2019 9:02 am : link
wasn’t head coach material
Naming Andy Robustelli  
Jay in Toronto : 8/15/2019 9:02 am : link
GM
Reese didn't ignore the OL.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/15/2019 9:07 am : link
He just flat out sucked at evaluating OL. There were so many swings and misses. Baas and Schwartz were expensive FA. Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers were high picks. There are a bunch of mid to late round picks like Brewer that were horrendous whereas almost every team in the NFL has mid to late round guys being productive.
the George Young decision on Belichick  
JonC : 8/15/2019 9:07 am : link
for me.
Belichik, no contest  
penkap75 : 8/15/2019 9:10 am : link
Its easy to shit on Reese, but you can't take away 2 Superbowls no matter how badly he screwed up in the later years.
RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
joeinpa : 8/15/2019 9:10 am : link
In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
Quote:
wasn’t head coach material


This!
I also think you should phrase it as organizational decision.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/15/2019 9:10 am : link
Management decision is, imo, letting your GM make decisions. Then you have ownership making decisions. So, biggest management decision is passing over on Belichick. That was clearly a George Young decision. For an organizational decision you have Reese enter the conversation but I still don't think that beats losing Belichick.
RE: the George Young decision on Belichick  
x meadowlander : 8/15/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14530893 JonC said:
Quote:
for me.
Ditto. An argument can be made that Bill B. failed in Cleveland, but at that point, the Browns were not a good football team. Giants were Champions.

If Bill Belichick had become Giants head coach, FIVE-peat would be a thing and the Giants would have won over Superbowls in his tenure.

>:)
RE: Reese didn't ignore the OL.  
mfsd : 8/15/2019 9:12 am : link
In comment 14530892 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
He just flat out sucked at evaluating OL. There were so many swings and misses. Baas and Schwartz were expensive FA. Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers were high picks. There are a bunch of mid to late round picks like Brewer that were horrendous whereas almost every team in the NFL has mid to late round guys being productive.


+1

And part of the overall roster decline was due to repeatedly spending high draft picks and FA resources on the OL, that could have been spent elsewhere (on defense) had we not kept whiffing on OL picks and signings.
Cutting Kyle Bosworth  
Anakim : 8/15/2019 9:13 am : link
.
Jerry Reese helped us win 2 Super Bowls  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 8/15/2019 9:16 am : link
Yet he was the worst decision the franchise has ever made? Get the hell out of here. He flamed lit at the end, but he is far from the worst decision that was ever made.

We will RUE THE DAY  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/15/2019 9:19 am : link
when Matt Dodge comes back to haunt us.
Not firing Reese when we fired Coughlin  
jlukes : 8/15/2019 9:22 am : link
and then hiring McAdoo from within

Reese isn't top ten  
English Alaister : 8/15/2019 9:22 am : link
Lombardi, Landry, Belichik. We love to let a great coach leave.
Going back in time  
gmenatlarge : 8/15/2019 9:26 am : link
when they had asst coaches named Lombardi and Landry on the team, yet somehow allowed both to go elsewhere to achieve their success!
RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
joeinpa : 8/15/2019 9:29 am : link
In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
[quote] wasn’t head coach material [/quote

This and his inability to adapt to free agency are why he should not be in the HOF
RE: RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
mfsd : 8/15/2019 9:33 am : link
In comment 14530931 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
[quote] wasn’t head coach material [/quote

This and his inability to adapt to free agency are why he should not be in the HOF


I disagree about the HOF - IMO Young should definitely be in. You’re right about Belichick and free agency, but he rebuilt the Giants into a Super Bowl champion and perennial contender after the infamous “15 years of lousy football” era, while managing through the Mara family weirdness during that time.
I wouldn't put Reece in this category  
Rudy5757 : 8/15/2019 9:35 am : link
He won 2 Superbowls as the GM. You can play what ifs all you want we won with him as GM and some of the guys he drafted played a huge part of those wins.

The Ray Handley decision was a big one. Macadoo is up there as they should have cleaned house. Macadoo in a suit and slick hair was a classic.

The handling of Eli under Macadoo was just stupid and then the effort to fix it was embarrassing.

The handling of Simms and Hostetler.

Drafting Dave Brown in the supplemental draft set us back bigtime.

I dont know much about the Giants before the 80s but those teams seemed to be a disaster so there must be some big ones from them.
Trading Sam Huff  
Y.A. : 8/15/2019 9:35 am : link
What can I say? I'm still not over it.
RE: Jerry Reese helped us win 2 Super Bowls  
JohnB : 8/15/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14530909 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Yet he was the worst decision the franchise has ever made? Get the hell out of here. He flamed lit at the end, but he is far from the worst decision that was ever made.


Agreed!!!! 2 rings isn't that bad
RE: RE: RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
joeinpa : 8/15/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14530933 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 14530931 joeinpa said:


Quote:


In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
[quote] wasn’t head coach material [/quote

This and his inability to adapt to free agency are why he should not be in the HOF



I disagree about the HOF - IMO Young should definitely be in. You’re right about Belichick and free agency, but he rebuilt the Giants into a Super Bowl champion and perennial contender after the infamous “15 years of lousy football” era, while managing through the Mara family weirdness during that time.


Those are good pts. But he let good players that had won a championship and could still play walk. He drafted Dave Brown and he prevented a return of Parcells.

He was a stubborn man who would not adjust, that s not HOF to me
Well Mara as his own appointed  
Big Blue '56 : 8/15/2019 9:42 am : link
GM
Anyone who was alive when they bypassed Belichick  
jcn56 : 8/15/2019 9:43 am : link
and doesn't have that as their #1 answer needs their head examined, bullshit about how GY didn't think he had the demeanor or how he needed a stop in Cleveland notwithstanding.

#2, before my time, would be letting both Lombardi and Landry walk.
End of George Young Era - 90s  
teso56 : 8/15/2019 9:44 am : link
The end of the George Young Era had several critical errors that basically wrote off the decade of the 90s

1) George Young not liking Bill Belichik and not grooming him to succeed Parcells

2) Dave Brown as the handpicked successor to Phil Simms

3) Not preparing/adapting to free agency spending spree that consumed the 90s (see cowboys and 49ers dominance of big name free agents - most exemplified by Deion Sanders winning Super Bowls for both teams) It took Accorsi a few years to right the ship....
Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 9:46 am : link
when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.
Letting go of the great offensive Guru Mccdoo has to be clear number o  
NephilimGiants : 8/15/2019 9:56 am : link
His masterplan was to tank for Saquan Barkley and unfortunately we let him go before seeing what his execution was going to be.
RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 8/15/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.


This narrative is a pile of shit. The giants brass including Coughlin and Reese drafted and brought in FA’s and they just didn’t work out. Draft picks didn’t pan out and key FA signings got hurt. You can’t say they just never tried.
Reese  
ghost718 : 8/15/2019 10:22 am : link
2 Superbowls,yeah,but when you add burying the franchise to the other side of the scale.This happens

RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
bradshaw44 : 8/15/2019 10:22 am : link
In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
Quote:
wasn’t head coach material


Winner. And it isn't close.

Lot's of second place ties after this one.
Not drafting Reggie White  
RobCarpenter : 8/15/2019 10:23 am : link
Imagine him and LT on the same D....
Letting Tisch in on football decisions  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/15/2019 10:26 am : link
This is a classic disasterous management blunder, Shurmur and DG have to get approvals from TWO knuckleheads to make a move. Like Generals Varrus and Paulus against Hannibal at Cannae.

A fish rots from the head.
Allowing Reese to stay involved post-Coughlin  
Eric on Li : 8/15/2019 10:28 am : link
hiring Reese wasn't the wrong move. His picks of JPP/Nicks/Phillips/Joseph and more led to a 2nd SB. What he did after that OL group aged out was a debacle and was the downfall of the entire organization over Eli's last several prime years.

Moving on from Coughlin after 3 or 4 bad seasons was perfectly rational. Allowing the guy who constructed that dogshit roster to help choose his replacement was nonsensical. As was their decision to promote a first time HC who wasn't even all that good as an offensive coordinator.
George Young  
crick n NC : 8/15/2019 10:30 am : link
Hiring Fassell after the FO agreed to bring back Parcells in 97.
RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/15/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.


I don't agree with this narrative. In 2009 he drafted Beatty who was supposed to be the future LT.

In 2010 he signed Shawn Andrews and that was also the year when Adam Koets had a really good stretch run at center that season, only to pop his ACL and never play again. Gotta believe if he doesn't then Reese doesn't overpay for a mediocre Kevin Baas.

He addressed the line, but none of his picks panned out for an established period of time. Pugh was hurt often and had one really good season, same with Richburg.

We all thought Flowers was promising in his rookie year and he regressed in many ways.

Wasn't for a lack of trying, he was just bad a analyzing offensive lineman. Wasn't a lack of trying, imo.
RE: RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14530993 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.



This narrative is a pile of shit. The giants brass including Coughlin and Reese drafted and brought in FA’s and they just didn’t work out. Draft picks didn’t pan out and key FA signings got hurt. You can’t say they just never tried.


Quote:
“Back in 2009 I started to argue that the line was getting old and 2010 we were getting beat up, we were still winning because we were still good enough. In 2011 even when we won the Super Bowl there were multiple guys getting hurt and banged up, and by 2012 we went 9-7 but we were hanging on by dear life,” Gilbride said. “We were hanging onto that windowsill with our fingernails. When 2013 happened and there were six different starters at running back, three different at right guard, four different at center, three at left guard. That stuff’s been going on for a while now.

“This isn’t just an overnight thing. People are acting like this just happened. This has been a buildup that needed to be addressed for a while.”

-Kevin Gilbride


So who am I going to believe? You? Or Kevin Gilbride?
RE: RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14531010 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.



I don't agree with this narrative. In 2009 he drafted Beatty who was supposed to be the future LT.

In 2010 he signed Shawn Andrews and that was also the year when Adam Koets had a really good stretch run at center that season, only to pop his ACL and never play again. Gotta believe if he doesn't then Reese doesn't overpay for a mediocre Kevin Baas.

He addressed the line, but none of his picks panned out for an established period of time. Pugh was hurt often and had one really good season, same with Richburg.

We all thought Flowers was promising in his rookie year and he regressed in many ways.

Wasn't for a lack of trying, he was just bad a analyzing offensive lineman. Wasn't a lack of trying, imo.


Beatty was a second round pick. Andrews had mental problems and we took a flyer on him.

We FINALLY spent a 1st round pick on O-line after 2013.
Another problem with Reese and his crew is they seemed to telegraph  
jlukes : 8/15/2019 10:35 am : link
their draft picks. How many times did teams jump in front of us to grab someone. It was embarrassing.
Mcadoo was worse than Handley  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/15/2019 10:35 am : link
I can kind of understand GY not liking Little Bill, he was basically a nebbish quant at that point. And at the time I shrugged my shoulder at the Handley hire.

But come on, getting bamboozled by the Eagles to hire frigging Mcadoo, that was blatantly terrible hire at the time, frigging Mara/Tisch/Reese.
RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
Brown Recluse : 8/15/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
Quote:
wasn’t head coach material


This.

And if you go back to BBI in 2009....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:37 am : link
I remember the conversations. O'hara especially was struggling. Snee was struggling with injuries. They were routinely getting pushed back into the pocket. Our run game was faltering. In fact, from 2008 to 2011 we went from the best rushing attack in the league to the worst.

Ironically, Go Terps might have been the loudest back then about neglect of the O-line going to cost them in the future. I remember him beating that drum loudly in 2009.
He was told he was full of shit then, too.
RE: RE: RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
pjcas18 : 8/15/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14531014 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14531010 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.



I don't agree with this narrative. In 2009 he drafted Beatty who was supposed to be the future LT.

In 2010 he signed Shawn Andrews and that was also the year when Adam Koets had a really good stretch run at center that season, only to pop his ACL and never play again. Gotta believe if he doesn't then Reese doesn't overpay for a mediocre Kevin Baas.

He addressed the line, but none of his picks panned out for an established period of time. Pugh was hurt often and had one really good season, same with Richburg.

We all thought Flowers was promising in his rookie year and he regressed in many ways.

Wasn't for a lack of trying, he was just bad a analyzing offensive lineman. Wasn't a lack of trying, imo.



Beatty was a second round pick. Andrews had mental problems and we took a flyer on him.

We FINALLY spent a 1st round pick on O-line after 2013.


Before 2013 (Pugh was drafted in the 2013 draft,so before the 2013 season).

I do think they waited on the OL too long and then the investment in the OL (which really can't be questioned - and that compounded things) and was loaded with misses (Pugh, Richburg, Flowers, Omameh, etc.)
Belichick  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/15/2019 10:38 am : link
I am not sure if confirmed but I thought something with a secretary?

The Mara's have for the most part been a class act. I think some of their decisions are emotional/loyalty based and a more cut throat type probably would have taken a different course a few times.

Britt, I fully agree with you and the back end of TC and Eli's career would be viewed totally different.
I remember  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/15/2019 10:39 am : link
Andrews having bad back problems, not so much mental health issues here with the Giants. In Philly, yes.

I do remember reading he needed a few epidurals during the week just to play a game.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:40 am : link
In comment 14531021 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14531014 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14531010 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.



I don't agree with this narrative. In 2009 he drafted Beatty who was supposed to be the future LT.

In 2010 he signed Shawn Andrews and that was also the year when Adam Koets had a really good stretch run at center that season, only to pop his ACL and never play again. Gotta believe if he doesn't then Reese doesn't overpay for a mediocre Kevin Baas.

He addressed the line, but none of his picks panned out for an established period of time. Pugh was hurt often and had one really good season, same with Richburg.

We all thought Flowers was promising in his rookie year and he regressed in many ways.

Wasn't for a lack of trying, he was just bad a analyzing offensive lineman. Wasn't a lack of trying, imo.



Beatty was a second round pick. Andrews had mental problems and we took a flyer on him.

We FINALLY spent a 1st round pick on O-line after 2013.



Before 2013 (Pugh was drafted in the 2013 draft,so before the 2013 season).

I do think they waited on the OL too long and then the investment in the OL (which really can't be questioned - and that compounded things) and was loaded with misses (Pugh, Richburg, Flowers, Omameh, etc.)


Agreed, which is why I qualified my initial statement as not ignored, but neglected when the signs started showing early
Basketball on grass  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/15/2019 10:45 am : link
bro!
RE: Reese didn't ignore the OL.  
NoPeanutz : 8/15/2019 10:46 am : link
In comment 14530892 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
He just flat out sucked at evaluating OL. There were so many swings and misses. Baas and Schwartz were expensive FA. Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers were high picks. There are a bunch of mid to late round picks like Brewer that were horrendous whereas almost every team in the NFL has mid to late round guys being productive.

Richburg was a second-round
My point about the O-line, ultimately, is that 2013 ROCK BOTTOM  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:49 am : link
should have never happened. We should have never hit rock bottom like that.

It forced Gilbride out and made us change our offense, which ultimately led to Ben McAdoo. It all goes back to failure to address the offensive line IN TIME. Complete lack of foresight.

I don't see how anybody can argue from that after fall from being the #1 rushing team in the entire league in 2008 to the 32nd ranked rushing offense in 2011.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 8/15/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14531027 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14531021 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14531014 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14531010 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.



I don't agree with this narrative. In 2009 he drafted Beatty who was supposed to be the future LT.

In 2010 he signed Shawn Andrews and that was also the year when Adam Koets had a really good stretch run at center that season, only to pop his ACL and never play again. Gotta believe if he doesn't then Reese doesn't overpay for a mediocre Kevin Baas.

He addressed the line, but none of his picks panned out for an established period of time. Pugh was hurt often and had one really good season, same with Richburg.

We all thought Flowers was promising in his rookie year and he regressed in many ways.

Wasn't for a lack of trying, he was just bad a analyzing offensive lineman. Wasn't a lack of trying, imo.



Beatty was a second round pick. Andrews had mental problems and we took a flyer on him.

We FINALLY spent a 1st round pick on O-line after 2013.



Before 2013 (Pugh was drafted in the 2013 draft,so before the 2013 season).

I do think they waited on the OL too long and then the investment in the OL (which really can't be questioned - and that compounded things) and was loaded with misses (Pugh, Richburg, Flowers, Omameh, etc.)



Agreed, which is why I qualified my initial statement as not ignored, but neglected when the signs started showing early


So investing a 2nd round pick on Will Beatty in 2009 who wasn’t terrible when he played wasn’t a high enough draft pick for an Oline for you?!?
That 2008 Gilbride/Eli O  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/15/2019 10:54 am : link
Was absolute murder. Don't forget saddling Gilbride's run and shoot option read heavy offense with the likes of Barden and JPP TE.
It wasn't enough.  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:56 am : link
.
Purely from my fan  
Bubba : 8/15/2019 10:57 am : link
perspective was building the new stadium and going to the PSL format. It was the straw that "broke my back". I bit the bullet and paid the fees. I eventually sold my PSLs and ended a family era.
The easy choice is letting Belichick slip away  
Jimmy Googs : 8/15/2019 10:58 am : link
(and for old-timers...Lombardi and Landry) but the fact is that assistants leave to become head coaches.

A close second is ANYONE that signed off on those drafts between the years 2011-2012-2013. Teams have bad drafts but to do it 3 years in a row to that extent, and when you had such a solid QB at the time, was egregious.

We are still trying to recover now years later...
The OL disaster was created by Coughlin and Reese 50/50  
Chris684 : 8/15/2019 10:58 am : link
The first problem was that O'Hara, Diehl, Snee (especially Snee) were all counted on for far too long. Coughlin's loyalty to these guys, most notably his son in law outweighed the logic that said these guys were toast. Snee retired during training camp for cryin' out loud.

Reese's part of it was not ignorance, as much as he was just a terrible evaluator of OL talent. Schwartz, Pugh and Richburg and Flowers were all either busts or disappointments acquired through the use of valuable resources. I won't even get into the long list of middle to late round draft picks who never materialized. Baas was a decent pickup but ultimately could not stay healthy. Beatty was actually his best work and in fairness, did earn a second contract with the team. Beatty's lifting injury was the bad luck in all of this that compounded a lot of the other mistakes made.
Drafting  
Gman11 : 8/15/2019 10:59 am : link
Rocky Thompson and Eldridge Small in the first round of the same draft.
Yes, Belichick is number one....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:59 am : link
.
It's easy to say Belichick...  
bw in dc : 8/15/2019 11:04 am : link
in hindsight. But let's be honest, no one saw what he did in New England coming. Nobody.
George Young...  
bw in dc : 8/15/2019 11:09 am : link
was an absolute disaster adjusting to the cap model. He just couldn't evolve with it's complications and intricacies. And I think that likely set this team back a decade.

And it's a good point, above, about Dave Brown. That was a horrible use of the supplemental draft. But what made matters worse, was Reeves and GY failure to create a better platform for Brown to possibly succeed...
RE: The easy choice is letting Belichick slip away  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/15/2019 11:16 am : link
In comment 14531051 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
(and for old-timers...Lombardi and Landry) but the fact is that assistants leave to become head coaches.

A close second is ANYONE that signed off on those drafts between the years 2011-2012-2013. Teams have bad drafts but to do it 3 years in a row to that extent, and when you had such a solid QB at the time, was egregious.

We are still trying to recover now years later...


Yup. This is the reason why the Giants have been so bad. The drafting from 2009 till 2013 was terrible...I mean incredibly bad.

People forget the Giants had 5 picks within the top 100 selections and really only came out with Hakeem Nicks.
Also  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/15/2019 11:18 am : link
yeah, drafting from 2009 till 2016 was pretty awful.

Drafting Tucker Fredrickson  
ktinsc : 8/15/2019 11:19 am : link
With Sayers and Butkus on the board
RE: It's easy to say Belichick...  
Gman11 : 8/15/2019 11:19 am : link
In comment 14531064 bw in dc said:
Quote:
in hindsight. But let's be honest, no one saw what he did in New England coming. Nobody.


True, but the hiring of Ray Handley is what made it worse. Handley was a RB coach. He wasn't a coordinator or head coach previously.

I can see not hiring Belichick simply based on his demeanor, but promoting Handley? Ugh.
Wasn’t Belichick not being hired a Parcells power play....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 11:22 am : link
as much as it was a management decision?

I remember hearing the late announcement of his “retirement” affecting the Belichick decision, no?
Y.A. Re: Trading Sam Huff.  
Marty in Albany : 8/15/2019 11:22 am : link
It broke my heart.
easy  
giantfan2000 : 8/15/2019 11:25 am : link
promoting Chris Mara Senior Vice President of Player Personnel in 2011

you can trace the decline of this franchise to that moment ..

Parcells retiring when he did, leaving us in  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/15/2019 12:16 pm : link
a lurch. Also, GY thinking BB wasn't head coach material.
Giants Passed on Reggie White in the 1984 Supplemental Draft  
Youtoo : 8/15/2019 12:20 pm : link
Parcells wanted him, but they got Carl Banks in the first round of the regular draft. George Young wanted an offensive lineman. The lineman they drafted went to the hall of fame, but never played for the giants.He told the giants he did not want to play on the east coast and would never play for the Gaints.

George Young did not believe him. Then he held out for a year and George traded him for 2 second round picks. One was a guy who was out of the league in 4 years and the other was Mark Collins who started at Corner for 2 superbowl teams, but was replaceable.

Fans often make excuses for George Young because the guy he drafted was great. They ignore that he REFUSED TO PLAY FOR THE GIANTS.

Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White were the two best defensive players I ever saw. There was no salary cap and no free agency. If the Giants drafted Reggie White I think they might have won 4 superbowls in 5 years starting in 1986. The Giant defense would have been better than the 1985/1986 bears defense with more offense.
In this order...  
EricJ : 8/15/2019 12:25 pm : link
Passing on Bill B
Promoting Jerry Reese
Hiring Dan Reeves
Cutting Matt Stover
Parting ways with Ed McCaffrey
The Cedric Jones pick
The Ron Dayne pick
RE: Giants Passed on Reggie White in the 1984 Supplemental Draft  
EricJ : 8/15/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14531185 Youtoo said:
Quote:
George Young wanted an offensive lineman. The lineman they drafted went to the hall of fame, but never played for the giants.He told the giants he did not want to play on the east coast and would never play for the Gaints.


Zimmerman
RE: Giants Passed on Reggie White in the 1984 Supplemental Draft  
bw in dc : 8/15/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14531185 Youtoo said:
Quote:
Parcells wanted him, but they got Carl Banks in the first round of the regular draft. George Young wanted an offensive lineman. The lineman they drafted went to the hall of fame, but never played for the giants.He told the giants he did not want to play on the east coast and would never play for the Gaints.

George Young did not believe him. Then he held out for a year and George traded him for 2 second round picks. One was a guy who was out of the league in 4 years and the other was Mark Collins who started at Corner for 2 superbowl teams, but was replaceable.

Fans often make excuses for George Young because the guy he drafted was great. They ignore that he REFUSED TO PLAY FOR THE GIANTS.

Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White were the two best defensive players I ever saw. There was no salary cap and no free agency. If the Giants drafted Reggie White I think they might have won 4 superbowls in 5 years starting in 1986. The Giant defense would have been better than the 1985/1986 bears defense with more offense.


That's really unfair. Jints Central drafted very well in the '80s. They had a lot of hits in the draft.

And it showed with their most dominant period as a franchise, and two SBs.
Hi guys!  
figgy2989 : 8/15/2019 12:27 pm : link
RE: easy  
ron mexico : 8/15/2019 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14531093 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
promoting Chris Mara Senior Vice President of Player Personnel in 2011

you can trace the decline of this franchise to that moment ..


well at least his horse racing career seems to be going well
We had a bunch of 2nd rd picks 2 of which were from Zimmerman trade  
Bubba : 8/15/2019 12:30 pm : link
in 1986 included, not sure the order, Collins, Howard, Pepper Johnson and Greg Lasker. All went on to become great contributors and were instrumental for winning the 1990 SB. Lasker got hurt but played until then.
RE: Wellington Mara as his own appointed  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/15/2019 1:08 pm : link
Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
GM
+100,000,000. End of discussion.

Yes, the Giants also let Lombardi, Landry and Belichick slip away. All terrible. But that's still a lower level of the organization. With the talent Mara provided in the 60s and 70s, the team wouldn't have won anything with a coaching staff of Lombardi, Landry, Belichick, Coughlin and Parcells, all in their primes.

Only 2 of the 2nd round picks  
arniefez : 8/15/2019 1:14 pm : link
were from the Zimmerman trade. If the Giants took Reggie White they would have had LT and Reggie White in their early prime on either side of the defense with Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick coaching them. It absolutely belongs on this list.

In recent years promoting Chris Mara Senior Vice President of Player Personnel is on the list for me.
Every team makes bad draft picks and misses great players  
Eric on Li : 8/15/2019 1:21 pm : link
as bad as the Cedric Jones and Ron Dayne picks were that's a stupid thing to nitpick. Had they ended up with Kevin Hardy or Thomas Jones (both of whom would have been hailed as "home run draft picks" in those respective years it's doubtful all that much would have been different in the W/L record. In any draft you can go back and pick out a Ray Lewis who fell to or close to the 2nd round, which only means pretty much the entire league missed on them.

The worst "management mistakes" go far beyond individual player transactions. It's keeping Reese/Marc Ross in charge for 2 years longer than they should where they impacted literally 100's of transactions.
Mark Collins and Greg Lasker  
arniefez : 8/15/2019 1:29 pm : link
were the players the Giants picked with the Zimmerman picks.

Collins was an excellent player. Lasker JAG. The other two 2nd picks were the Giants own pick (Erik Howard) and a #2 from Denver for Mark Haynes (Pepper Johnson).

The Giants #1 pick that year was Eric Dorsey who played Reggie White position and looked like Tarzan but played like Jane - not Reggie White.

Passing on Reggie White was one of many horrible decisions George Young made, but most of them happened after Parcells left. There was no second guessing or monday morning QBing on this. Even with no internet and much more limited coverage most Giant fans knew right away Young had blown the pick and not just because Zimmerman said he'd never play for the Giants. Zimmerman saying that was probably a big reason Young picked him. Young was vehemently anti player rights. See the 1987 strike. See plan B Free Agency. See the NY Giants in the 1990's.
I agree with Arnie on George Young...  
EricJ : 8/15/2019 1:41 pm : link
while he was exactly what this organization needed initially to get the decision making away from the Mara's.... he absolutely screwed up many decisions down the road.
RE: Hi guys!  
mfsd : 8/15/2019 3:07 pm : link
In comment 14531197 figgy2989 said:
Quote:


Lol. That fucking suit. What a jackass
RE: Not drafting Reggie White  
RobCarpenter : 8/15/2019 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14531001 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
Imagine him and LT on the same D....


I guess no one saw this post?
RE: RE: It's easy to say Belichick...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/15/2019 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14531082 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14531064 bw in dc said:


Quote:


in hindsight. But let's be honest, no one saw what he did in New England coming. Nobody.



True, but the hiring of Ray Handley is what made it worse. Handley was a RB coach. He wasn't a coordinator or head coach previously.

I can see not hiring Belichick simply based on his demeanor, but promoting Handley? Ugh.

Handley was a bit more gregarious than Little B, but yeah a definitely screams "LOOK I'm facing smarter than everyone else in the fucking room" pick. Why not Coughlin?

Mcadoo was just an outright wtf pick, can't even ascribe a rational thought process behind that pick.
Letting Coughlin go  
mittenedman : 8/15/2019 3:44 pm : link
while keeping Reese & Ross in place and promoting McAdoo.
BTW  
mittenedman : 8/15/2019 3:48 pm : link
We'll never truly know what the deal with McAdoo was. Who exactly liked him? No one from GB seemed to care. You know it wasn't Coughlin - not a WCO. Was it Mara? Reese? Tisch? Who would ever admit it now?

He was completely in over his head as an OC and then gets promoted to HC like a bad sitcom.

Had to be Mara.
RE: My point about the O-line, ultimately, is that 2013 ROCK BOTTOM  
LauderdaleMatty : 8/16/2019 12:08 am : link
In comment 14531038 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
should have never happened. We should have never hit rock bottom like that.

It forced Gilbride out and made us change our offense, which ultimately led to Ben McAdoo. It all goes back to failure to address the offensive line IN TIME. Complete lack of foresight.

I don't see how anybody can argue from that after fall from being the #1 rushing team in the entire league in 2008 to the 32nd ranked rushing offense in 2011.


They needed OL depth as was Mentioned and Passed on Max Unger for Clint Sintim and David Wilson instead of
Cordy Glenn. His first 5 years as GM he picked Beatty in RD 2 and didn’t find anyone ever in the later rounds. And Beattywas never more than meh and a finesse guy. Whom The minute he was replaced by a very limited Dave Diehl the OL got better.

Like others have mentioned,  
Rick5 : 8/16/2019 3:29 am : link
no way it was Reese. Reese played a part in two SB wins. You must be a younger fan. If you had lived through watching them during any part of the 1970s, no way Reese's name even comes up in the discussion.
RE: BTW  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 8/16/2019 4:41 am : link
In comment 14531386 mittenedman said:
Quote:
We'll never truly know what the deal with McAdoo was. Who exactly liked him? No one from GB seemed to care. You know it wasn't Coughlin - not a WCO. Was it Mara? Reese? Tisch? Who would ever admit it now?

He was completely in over his head as an OC and then gets promoted to HC like a bad sitcom.

Had to be Mara.


McAdoo may have had a bad 2nd season as HC, but to say he was in over his head as an OC is just an asinine statement. Eli Manning's numbers in 2014-2015 are better than every QB not named Brady or Rodgers and are relatively even with Drew Brees. Despite throwing the ball more often, his INT rate was cut in half.

In his first year as head coach, the offense might've sucked ass, but they still had the second best record in the conference that year. They were forced to be a road playoff team because the team with the best record was in their division. (By comparison, Ray Handley took over a Super Bowl winning team and couldn't break .500.)
RE: Like others have mentioned,  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 8/16/2019 4:49 am : link
In comment 14531776 Rick5 said:
Quote:
no way it was Reese. Reese played a part in two SB wins. You must be a younger fan. If you had lived through watching them during any part of the 1970s, no way Reese's name even comes up in the discussion.


Only a dumb person would think Jerry Reese is the "worst management move" the Giants ever made. It ended badly, but he got to the top of the mountain twice. Use your brain people.



The answer is clearly hiring Ray Handley. He took over a Super Bowl winning team and even with a bunch of excellent assistant coaches did an abysmal job. This horrific hire is made exponentially worse by the fact the Giants didn't hire perhaps the best head coach of all-time already sitting on their payroll.
Letting that whole 'sit Eli' thing develop the way it did  
CardinalX : 8/16/2019 7:04 am : link
Was just pure laziness. This could have been hashed out with a good sitdown meeting long before it got to that point. Once Eli sat (pretty much of his own accord) we can never say... well Eli played every snap or started every game since... how it's all with a qualifier. Yeah, there have been worse management moves/non-moves. But this one wears on me.
RE: BTW  
mfsd : 8/16/2019 7:18 am : link
In comment 14531386 mittenedman said:
Quote:
We'll never truly know what the deal with McAdoo was. Who exactly liked him? No one from GB seemed to care. You know it wasn't Coughlin - not a WCO. Was it Mara? Reese? Tisch? Who would ever admit it now?

He was completely in over his head as an OC and then gets promoted to HC like a bad sitcom.

Had to be Mara.


All good questions, but I can share the Eagles interest in hiring McAdoo (which rushed the Giants decision) was 100% real, not a work to screw the Giants into hiring a mediocre coach, as some have theorized.

You may consider that Eagles related asshattery, comes from a conversation I was party to a couple years back that included someone who was “in the room” in Philly.

At the time, McAdoo was one of the hot young coordinators many teams are always seeking as next coach. Sometimes you get Sean McVay, other times, a guy who wears suits 5 sizes too big. It’s a crap shoot, just like the draft to a large degree
Brown Recluse  
bc4life : 8/16/2019 7:20 am : link
Ditto
I think the worst is yet to come.  
Default : 8/16/2019 7:42 am : link
Mara has his hands on everything, and the league won’t come in for the save again.
Belichick obviously  
Matt in SGS : 8/16/2019 8:51 am : link
is an easy one, but the reality was, going into 1991, the Giants core which Parcells built was getting old. The Giants championship window was 1985 - 1990. The Giants won 2 Super Bowls, and probably could have won another too in 1988 or 1989. But by 1991, they were too old and they didn't really have ready replacements. And it took Belichick a little while to find his way in Cleveland, so who knows how it would have worked out with the Giants and they might have run out of patience with him too.

I've written this before, but to me, the biggest blunder was the way the org misread the team after the 2012 season and tried to squeeze out a title in 2013 because the Super Bowl was at MetLife. They didn't address the fact that the 2012 season was the end of the championship core that Ernie Accorsi helped set up. They had Eli in his prime and they should have started a rebuild and look to create a window for another championship or two before time ran out on Coughlin and Eli.

Instead, they went for more retreads, held on to guys like Diehl and Snee too long, and wasted the rest of Eli's prime by essentially trying to put together teams that were build to go 9-7 and hope to make the playoffs and get hot.

Gettleman gets heat, but he did was Reese should have done in 2013. Blow it up, tear it down and build it back up around Eli. Reese put far too many guys on scholarship and let guys hang around too long because they were draft picks.

Bottom line, Belichick coming into 1991 had Simms near the end of his career and Hostetler proved to be an ok QB, but not a franchise one. So he would have been faced with a total rebuild with no QB. The Giants still had another 5+ years of Eli before the decline and they blew the whole thing by putting off what really needed to be done.
RE: RE: Not drafting Reggie White  
bw in dc : 8/16/2019 8:56 am : link
In comment 14531375 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 14531001 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


Imagine him and LT on the same D....



I guess no one saw this post?


We could have had Michael Irvin in the ‘88 draft instead of Eric Moore. Do you think Simms and Erhardt would have enjoyed that?
RE: Belichick obviously  
mfsd : 8/16/2019 9:03 am : link
In comment 14531873 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
is an easy one, but the reality was, going into 1991, the Giants core which Parcells built was getting old. The Giants championship window was 1985 - 1990. The Giants won 2 Super Bowls, and probably could have won another too in 1988 or 1989. But by 1991, they were too old and they didn't really have ready replacements. And it took Belichick a little while to find his way in Cleveland, so who knows how it would have worked out with the Giants and they might have run out of patience with him too.

I've written this before, but to me, the biggest blunder was the way the org misread the team after the 2012 season and tried to squeeze out a title in 2013 because the Super Bowl was at MetLife. They didn't address the fact that the 2012 season was the end of the championship core that Ernie Accorsi helped set up. They had Eli in his prime and they should have started a rebuild and look to create a window for another championship or two before time ran out on Coughlin and Eli.

Instead, they went for more retreads, held on to guys like Diehl and Snee too long, and wasted the rest of Eli's prime by essentially trying to put together teams that were build to go 9-7 and hope to make the playoffs and get hot.

Gettleman gets heat, but he did was Reese should have done in 2013. Blow it up, tear it down and build it back up around Eli. Reese put far too many guys on scholarship and let guys hang around too long because they were draft picks.

Bottom line, Belichick coming into 1991 had Simms near the end of his career and Hostetler proved to be an ok QB, but not a franchise one. So he would have been faced with a total rebuild with no QB. The Giants still had another 5+ years of Eli before the decline and they blew the whole thing by putting off what really needed to be done.


Good post. It’s fair to wonder if the Giants would have stuck with Belichick through the transition away from the Simms/LT era. We can assume they wouldn’t have given him full control of draft and personnel as he has in New England, and we all know how George Young flubbed the early years of the free agency era. Maybe Little Bill would have pulled off another Super Bowl run with the remains of the 1990 team, maybe not . It’s no guarantee Belichick would have had the personnel to succeed once the mid-90s hit.

Belichick turned the Browns into a contender at 11-5 in 1994 and won a playoff game, after navigating through the end of the Kosar era. I’ve always thought the generally accepted narrative that he failed in Cleveland isn’t accurate...he built a legit defense (with Sagan as DC) in 94. Although to be fair, that was a veteran team with Testaverde at QB that he probably wouldn’t have kept together long. Model moving the team to Baltimore ended that run abruptly anyway.
Sagan = Saban  
mfsd : 8/16/2019 9:04 am : link
F-ing autocorrect
Britt in VA  
arniefez : 8/16/2019 9:18 am : link
There is not one ounce of truth to that revisionist history to make Parcells the bad guy who screwed the Giants. Parcells was always difficult to manage to say the least and he hated George Young for trying to fire him after 1983 no matter what he says publicly now. But the Giants knew Parcells was leaving right after the Super Bowl.

They knew he was leaving before Belichick left for Cleveland. George Young told Belichick he was never going to be HC of the NYG. Young didn't like Belichick dipping his pen in the company ink while he was married and he thought Belichick didn't have the personality to manage the media in NY.

Parcells left when Tom Mara Jr sold the team. He was much closer with Tim Jr than Wellington and Young was the opposite which makes sense if you knew anything about the 4 of them.

Leaving when ownership changed was one of Parcells MO's. He left NYG when Tim Jr sold. He left NE soon after Kraft bought the team. He left the Jets when Leon Hess sold. He gave the Giants plenty of notice and they asked him to stay through the draft which he did.

...  
christian : 8/16/2019 9:41 am : link
Lol a GM who was previously in charge of building personnel and then oversaw an unprecedented 8 year run that included 2 championships and no losing seasons was the worst move ever?

Every new GM inherits players and chooses to build around them or change them.

With some of these posts you'd think there wasn't a GM from 2007 on, just Accorsi's empty rocking chair and a pile of of 1950s Colts photos.

A team who let Landry, Lombardi, and Belichick go. A team who had a historically bad 2 decades. A team that hired Ben MacAdoo and Ray Handley as head coaches. A team who currently employs the lesser grandkid who skips the draft for a horse race.

And the GM with 2 rings was the worst mistake ever?
RE: RE: RE: Not drafting Reggie White  
RobCarpenter : 8/16/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14531878 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14531375 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 14531001 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


Imagine him and LT on the same D....



I guess no one saw this post?



We could have had Michael Irvin in the ‘88 draft instead of Eric Moore. Do you think Simms and Erhardt would have enjoyed that?


Two or three posters mentioned White vs Zimmerman after I did. That’s why I restated it.
Two SB's with Manning notwithstanding,  
GeofromNJ : 8/16/2019 11:42 am : link
IMO, the biggest mistake in recent years was trading for Eli instead of drafting Roethlisberger. We would have won three or four SB's with Ben. And we certainly would not have had losing seasons with Ben.
RE: Two SB's with Manning notwithstanding,  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/16/2019 11:53 am : link
In comment 14532072 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
IMO, the biggest mistake in recent years was trading for Eli instead of drafting Roethlisberger. We would have won three or four SB's with Ben. And we certainly would not have had losing seasons with Ben.


You think Ben and his antics would have survived the NY media and spotlight?
RE: Two SB's with Manning notwithstanding,  
bw in dc : 8/16/2019 12:06 pm : link
In comment 14532072 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
IMO, the biggest mistake in recent years was trading for Eli instead of drafting Roethlisberger. We would have won three or four SB's with Ben. And we certainly would not have had losing seasons with Ben.


Even I, the biggest Eli critic, find that hard to reconcile considering they both were part of two SB Ws.

But it is an interesting take in terms of projecting consistency. Roethlisberger is the better playmaker and overall QB. And so I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest we’d be a more consistent team and knocking on the door more. Beyond that? Not sure you can say definitively more SBs...
RE: Two SB's with Manning notwithstanding,  
RobCarpenter : 8/16/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14532072 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
IMO, the biggest mistake in recent years was trading for Eli instead of drafting Roethlisberger. We would have won three or four SB's with Ben. And we certainly would not have had losing seasons with Ben.


We'd have had the same piss poor OL blocking for him.

Would anyone say the Giants have had a better surrounding cast  
arniefez : 8/16/2019 12:20 pm : link
than the Steelers during Eli and Ben's careers? I think if the Steelers had Eli instead of Ben they would have won 5 Super Bowls.
Why stop at five?  
bw in dc : 8/16/2019 12:26 pm : link
Why not 6, 7 or 8?
RE: RE: Two SB's with Manning notwithstanding,  
GeofromNJ : 8/16/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14532120 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 14532072 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


IMO, the biggest mistake in recent years was trading for Eli instead of drafting Roethlisberger. We would have won three or four SB's with Ben. And we certainly would not have had losing seasons with Ben.



We'd have had the same piss poor OL blocking for him.

Ben can overcome piss poor OL blocking with his strength and mobility. Eli can't.
RE: ...  
jcn56 : 8/16/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14531925 christian said:
Quote:
Lol a GM who was previously in charge of building personnel and then oversaw an unprecedented 8 year run that included 2 championships and no losing seasons was the worst move ever?

Every new GM inherits players and chooses to build around them or change them.

With some of these posts you'd think there wasn't a GM from 2007 on, just Accorsi's empty rocking chair and a pile of of 1950s Colts photos.

A team who let Landry, Lombardi, and Belichick go. A team who had a historically bad 2 decades. A team that hired Ben MacAdoo and Ray Handley as head coaches. A team who currently employs the lesser grandkid who skips the draft for a horse race.

And the GM with 2 rings was the worst mistake ever?


It really makes you wonder.. then it's followed by the claim that they ended up leaving championships on the table.

Winning championships is hard. Winning 1 is tough - 2 in a ten year span? Having gone against the era's premiere dynasty in both contests? Unbelievable. The belief that a few tweaks to personnel would have resulted in more titles isn't just unreasonable, it's insane.

For all of his greatness, Peyton only had 2 as well. Would he have done better with another team's supporting cast? Maybe. If he didn't have to deal with Brady and Belichick in the same conference? Probably. Enough to guarantee he'd have 4 titles to his name? Absolutely not.
Not keeping Coughlin one more year  
TMS : 8/16/2019 3:40 pm : link
and giving him all that FA money to work with in rebuilding the team. Instead they stayed with Reese and Ross a total blunder. TC might have turned the team around with all that cash to spend and not those two wasting it again.
RE: Not keeping Coughlin one more year  
christian : 8/16/2019 3:49 pm : link
In comment 14532308 TMS said:
Quote:
and giving him all that FA money to work with in rebuilding the team. Instead they stayed with Reese and Ross a total blunder. TC might have turned the team around with all that cash to spend and not those two wasting it again.


How involved in personnel decisions do you believe Coughlin was during his tenure?

The year after Coughlin left and as a result of all that free agency money, the Giants mounted an 11 win season and fielded the 2nd ranked defense in the NFL. What do you think Coughlin would or should have done with that money?
RE: It's easy to say Belichick...  
DavidinBMNY : 8/16/2019 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14531064 bw in dc said:
Quote:
in hindsight. But let's be honest, no one saw what he did in New England coming. Nobody.
The funny thing with Bellichek, is the Browns actually fired him from being a head coach. No one remembers this?
RE: Like others have mentioned,  
DavidinBMNY : 8/16/2019 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14531776 Rick5 said:
Quote:
no way it was Reese. Reese played a part in two SB wins. You must be a younger fan. If you had lived through watching them during any part of the 1970s, no way Reese's name even comes up in the discussion.
Young is relative. I started in the 80's. So I'm old but not as old as you!
Guys this is an opinion question  
DavidinBMNY : 8/16/2019 4:18 pm : link
Thanks for everyone who shared one. For me there are lots to choose from. Love the passion #GoGiants!
It's easy to say Belichick...  
Torrag : 8/16/2019 5:19 pm : link
It's easy because it's obviously the correct answer.
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