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in your opinion - What was the worst Management Giants move?

DavidinBMNY : 8/15/2019 8:58 am
There are many good ones to choose from.

My opinion, is promoting Jerry Reese to general manager. He made a lot of decisions that set the franchise back, including hiring Marc Ross. Reese's built the team based on athletic playmakers, ignored the OL, failed on every late round pick (outside Bradshaw), gambled on a lot of players with previous injuries who only lasted 1 contract. I still remember when they drafted David Wilson I said "Luxury pick. We're not that good."

What do you think was the worst management decision?
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Doesn't it have to be Handley  
pjcas18 : 8/15/2019 8:59 am : link
over Belichick?
.  
skifaster : 8/15/2019 9:01 am : link
Hiring Ray Handley as Head Coach
George Young deciding Belichick  
mfsd : 8/15/2019 9:02 am : link
wasn’t head coach material
Naming Andy Robustelli  
Jay in Toronto : 8/15/2019 9:02 am : link
GM
Reese didn't ignore the OL.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/15/2019 9:07 am : link
He just flat out sucked at evaluating OL. There were so many swings and misses. Baas and Schwartz were expensive FA. Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers were high picks. There are a bunch of mid to late round picks like Brewer that were horrendous whereas almost every team in the NFL has mid to late round guys being productive.
the George Young decision on Belichick  
JonC : 8/15/2019 9:07 am : link
for me.
Belichik, no contest  
penkap75 : 8/15/2019 9:10 am : link
Its easy to shit on Reese, but you can't take away 2 Superbowls no matter how badly he screwed up in the later years.
RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
joeinpa : 8/15/2019 9:10 am : link
In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
Quote:
wasn’t head coach material


This!
I also think you should phrase it as organizational decision.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/15/2019 9:10 am : link
Management decision is, imo, letting your GM make decisions. Then you have ownership making decisions. So, biggest management decision is passing over on Belichick. That was clearly a George Young decision. For an organizational decision you have Reese enter the conversation but I still don't think that beats losing Belichick.
RE: the George Young decision on Belichick  
x meadowlander : 8/15/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14530893 JonC said:
Quote:
for me.
Ditto. An argument can be made that Bill B. failed in Cleveland, but at that point, the Browns were not a good football team. Giants were Champions.

If Bill Belichick had become Giants head coach, FIVE-peat would be a thing and the Giants would have won over Superbowls in his tenure.

>:)
RE: Reese didn't ignore the OL.  
mfsd : 8/15/2019 9:12 am : link
In comment 14530892 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
He just flat out sucked at evaluating OL. There were so many swings and misses. Baas and Schwartz were expensive FA. Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers were high picks. There are a bunch of mid to late round picks like Brewer that were horrendous whereas almost every team in the NFL has mid to late round guys being productive.


+1

And part of the overall roster decline was due to repeatedly spending high draft picks and FA resources on the OL, that could have been spent elsewhere (on defense) had we not kept whiffing on OL picks and signings.
Cutting Kyle Bosworth  
Anakim : 8/15/2019 9:13 am : link
.
Jerry Reese helped us win 2 Super Bowls  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 8/15/2019 9:16 am : link
Yet he was the worst decision the franchise has ever made? Get the hell out of here. He flamed lit at the end, but he is far from the worst decision that was ever made.

We will RUE THE DAY  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/15/2019 9:19 am : link
when Matt Dodge comes back to haunt us.
Not firing Reese when we fired Coughlin  
jlukes : 8/15/2019 9:22 am : link
and then hiring McAdoo from within

Reese isn't top ten  
English Alaister : 8/15/2019 9:22 am : link
Lombardi, Landry, Belichik. We love to let a great coach leave.
Going back in time  
gmenatlarge : 8/15/2019 9:26 am : link
when they had asst coaches named Lombardi and Landry on the team, yet somehow allowed both to go elsewhere to achieve their success!
RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
joeinpa : 8/15/2019 9:29 am : link
In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
[quote] wasn’t head coach material [/quote

This and his inability to adapt to free agency are why he should not be in the HOF
RE: RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
mfsd : 8/15/2019 9:33 am : link
In comment 14530931 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
[quote] wasn’t head coach material [/quote

This and his inability to adapt to free agency are why he should not be in the HOF


I disagree about the HOF - IMO Young should definitely be in. You’re right about Belichick and free agency, but he rebuilt the Giants into a Super Bowl champion and perennial contender after the infamous “15 years of lousy football” era, while managing through the Mara family weirdness during that time.
I wouldn't put Reece in this category  
Rudy5757 : 8/15/2019 9:35 am : link
He won 2 Superbowls as the GM. You can play what ifs all you want we won with him as GM and some of the guys he drafted played a huge part of those wins.

The Ray Handley decision was a big one. Macadoo is up there as they should have cleaned house. Macadoo in a suit and slick hair was a classic.

The handling of Eli under Macadoo was just stupid and then the effort to fix it was embarrassing.

The handling of Simms and Hostetler.

Drafting Dave Brown in the supplemental draft set us back bigtime.

I dont know much about the Giants before the 80s but those teams seemed to be a disaster so there must be some big ones from them.
Trading Sam Huff  
Y.A. : 8/15/2019 9:35 am : link
What can I say? I'm still not over it.
RE: Jerry Reese helped us win 2 Super Bowls  
JohnB : 8/15/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14530909 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Yet he was the worst decision the franchise has ever made? Get the hell out of here. He flamed lit at the end, but he is far from the worst decision that was ever made.


Agreed!!!! 2 rings isn't that bad
RE: RE: RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
joeinpa : 8/15/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14530933 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 14530931 joeinpa said:


Quote:


In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
[quote] wasn’t head coach material [/quote

This and his inability to adapt to free agency are why he should not be in the HOF



I disagree about the HOF - IMO Young should definitely be in. You’re right about Belichick and free agency, but he rebuilt the Giants into a Super Bowl champion and perennial contender after the infamous “15 years of lousy football” era, while managing through the Mara family weirdness during that time.


Those are good pts. But he let good players that had won a championship and could still play walk. He drafted Dave Brown and he prevented a return of Parcells.

He was a stubborn man who would not adjust, that s not HOF to me
Well Mara as his own appointed  
Big Blue '56 : 8/15/2019 9:42 am : link
GM
Anyone who was alive when they bypassed Belichick  
jcn56 : 8/15/2019 9:43 am : link
and doesn't have that as their #1 answer needs their head examined, bullshit about how GY didn't think he had the demeanor or how he needed a stop in Cleveland notwithstanding.

#2, before my time, would be letting both Lombardi and Landry walk.
End of George Young Era - 90s  
teso56 : 8/15/2019 9:44 am : link
The end of the George Young Era had several critical errors that basically wrote off the decade of the 90s

1) George Young not liking Bill Belichik and not grooming him to succeed Parcells

2) Dave Brown as the handpicked successor to Phil Simms

3) Not preparing/adapting to free agency spending spree that consumed the 90s (see cowboys and 49ers dominance of big name free agents - most exemplified by Deion Sanders winning Super Bowls for both teams) It took Accorsi a few years to right the ship....
Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 9:46 am : link
when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.
Letting go of the great offensive Guru Mccdoo has to be clear number o  
NephilimGiants : 8/15/2019 9:56 am : link
His masterplan was to tank for Saquan Barkley and unfortunately we let him go before seeing what his execution was going to be.
RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 8/15/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.


This narrative is a pile of shit. The giants brass including Coughlin and Reese drafted and brought in FA’s and they just didn’t work out. Draft picks didn’t pan out and key FA signings got hurt. You can’t say they just never tried.
Reese  
ghost718 : 8/15/2019 10:22 am : link
2 Superbowls,yeah,but when you add burying the franchise to the other side of the scale.This happens

RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
bradshaw44 : 8/15/2019 10:22 am : link
In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
Quote:
wasn’t head coach material


Winner. And it isn't close.

Lot's of second place ties after this one.
Not drafting Reggie White  
RobCarpenter : 8/15/2019 10:23 am : link
Imagine him and LT on the same D....
Letting Tisch in on football decisions  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/15/2019 10:26 am : link
This is a classic disasterous management blunder, Shurmur and DG have to get approvals from TWO knuckleheads to make a move. Like Generals Varrus and Paulus against Hannibal at Cannae.

A fish rots from the head.
Allowing Reese to stay involved post-Coughlin  
Eric on Li : 8/15/2019 10:28 am : link
hiring Reese wasn't the wrong move. His picks of JPP/Nicks/Phillips/Joseph and more led to a 2nd SB. What he did after that OL group aged out was a debacle and was the downfall of the entire organization over Eli's last several prime years.

Moving on from Coughlin after 3 or 4 bad seasons was perfectly rational. Allowing the guy who constructed that dogshit roster to help choose his replacement was nonsensical. As was their decision to promote a first time HC who wasn't even all that good as an offensive coordinator.
George Young  
crick n NC : 8/15/2019 10:30 am : link
Hiring Fassell after the FO agreed to bring back Parcells in 97.
RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/15/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.


I don't agree with this narrative. In 2009 he drafted Beatty who was supposed to be the future LT.

In 2010 he signed Shawn Andrews and that was also the year when Adam Koets had a really good stretch run at center that season, only to pop his ACL and never play again. Gotta believe if he doesn't then Reese doesn't overpay for a mediocre Kevin Baas.

He addressed the line, but none of his picks panned out for an established period of time. Pugh was hurt often and had one really good season, same with Richburg.

We all thought Flowers was promising in his rookie year and he regressed in many ways.

Wasn't for a lack of trying, he was just bad a analyzing offensive lineman. Wasn't a lack of trying, imo.
RE: RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14530993 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.



This narrative is a pile of shit. The giants brass including Coughlin and Reese drafted and brought in FA’s and they just didn’t work out. Draft picks didn’t pan out and key FA signings got hurt. You can’t say they just never tried.


Quote:
“Back in 2009 I started to argue that the line was getting old and 2010 we were getting beat up, we were still winning because we were still good enough. In 2011 even when we won the Super Bowl there were multiple guys getting hurt and banged up, and by 2012 we went 9-7 but we were hanging on by dear life,” Gilbride said. “We were hanging onto that windowsill with our fingernails. When 2013 happened and there were six different starters at running back, three different at right guard, four different at center, three at left guard. That stuff’s been going on for a while now.

“This isn’t just an overnight thing. People are acting like this just happened. This has been a buildup that needed to be addressed for a while.”

-Kevin Gilbride


So who am I going to believe? You? Or Kevin Gilbride?
RE: RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14531010 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.



I don't agree with this narrative. In 2009 he drafted Beatty who was supposed to be the future LT.

In 2010 he signed Shawn Andrews and that was also the year when Adam Koets had a really good stretch run at center that season, only to pop his ACL and never play again. Gotta believe if he doesn't then Reese doesn't overpay for a mediocre Kevin Baas.

He addressed the line, but none of his picks panned out for an established period of time. Pugh was hurt often and had one really good season, same with Richburg.

We all thought Flowers was promising in his rookie year and he regressed in many ways.

Wasn't for a lack of trying, he was just bad a analyzing offensive lineman. Wasn't a lack of trying, imo.


Beatty was a second round pick. Andrews had mental problems and we took a flyer on him.

We FINALLY spent a 1st round pick on O-line after 2013.
Another problem with Reese and his crew is they seemed to telegraph  
jlukes : 8/15/2019 10:35 am : link
their draft picks. How many times did teams jump in front of us to grab someone. It was embarrassing.
Mcadoo was worse than Handley  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/15/2019 10:35 am : link
I can kind of understand GY not liking Little Bill, he was basically a nebbish quant at that point. And at the time I shrugged my shoulder at the Handley hire.

But come on, getting bamboozled by the Eagles to hire frigging Mcadoo, that was blatantly terrible hire at the time, frigging Mara/Tisch/Reese.
RE: George Young deciding Belichick  
Brown Recluse : 8/15/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14530885 mfsd said:
Quote:
wasn’t head coach material


This.

And if you go back to BBI in 2009....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:37 am : link
I remember the conversations. O'hara especially was struggling. Snee was struggling with injuries. They were routinely getting pushed back into the pocket. Our run game was faltering. In fact, from 2008 to 2011 we went from the best rushing attack in the league to the worst.

Ironically, Go Terps might have been the loudest back then about neglect of the O-line going to cost them in the future. I remember him beating that drum loudly in 2009.
He was told he was full of shit then, too.
RE: RE: RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
pjcas18 : 8/15/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14531014 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14531010 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.



I don't agree with this narrative. In 2009 he drafted Beatty who was supposed to be the future LT.

In 2010 he signed Shawn Andrews and that was also the year when Adam Koets had a really good stretch run at center that season, only to pop his ACL and never play again. Gotta believe if he doesn't then Reese doesn't overpay for a mediocre Kevin Baas.

He addressed the line, but none of his picks panned out for an established period of time. Pugh was hurt often and had one really good season, same with Richburg.

We all thought Flowers was promising in his rookie year and he regressed in many ways.

Wasn't for a lack of trying, he was just bad a analyzing offensive lineman. Wasn't a lack of trying, imo.



Beatty was a second round pick. Andrews had mental problems and we took a flyer on him.

We FINALLY spent a 1st round pick on O-line after 2013.


Before 2013 (Pugh was drafted in the 2013 draft,so before the 2013 season).

I do think they waited on the OL too long and then the investment in the OL (which really can't be questioned - and that compounded things) and was loaded with misses (Pugh, Richburg, Flowers, Omameh, etc.)
Belichick  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/15/2019 10:38 am : link
I am not sure if confirmed but I thought something with a secretary?

The Mara's have for the most part been a class act. I think some of their decisions are emotional/loyalty based and a more cut throat type probably would have taken a different course a few times.

Britt, I fully agree with you and the back end of TC and Eli's career would be viewed totally different.
I remember  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/15/2019 10:39 am : link
Andrews having bad back problems, not so much mental health issues here with the Giants. In Philly, yes.

I do remember reading he needed a few epidurals during the week just to play a game.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:40 am : link
In comment 14531021 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14531014 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14531010 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.



I don't agree with this narrative. In 2009 he drafted Beatty who was supposed to be the future LT.

In 2010 he signed Shawn Andrews and that was also the year when Adam Koets had a really good stretch run at center that season, only to pop his ACL and never play again. Gotta believe if he doesn't then Reese doesn't overpay for a mediocre Kevin Baas.

He addressed the line, but none of his picks panned out for an established period of time. Pugh was hurt often and had one really good season, same with Richburg.

We all thought Flowers was promising in his rookie year and he regressed in many ways.

Wasn't for a lack of trying, he was just bad a analyzing offensive lineman. Wasn't a lack of trying, imo.



Beatty was a second round pick. Andrews had mental problems and we took a flyer on him.

We FINALLY spent a 1st round pick on O-line after 2013.



Before 2013 (Pugh was drafted in the 2013 draft,so before the 2013 season).

I do think they waited on the OL too long and then the investment in the OL (which really can't be questioned - and that compounded things) and was loaded with misses (Pugh, Richburg, Flowers, Omameh, etc.)


Agreed, which is why I qualified my initial statement as not ignored, but neglected when the signs started showing early
Basketball on grass  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/15/2019 10:45 am : link
bro!
RE: Reese didn't ignore the OL.  
NoPeanutz : 8/15/2019 10:46 am : link
In comment 14530892 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
He just flat out sucked at evaluating OL. There were so many swings and misses. Baas and Schwartz were expensive FA. Beatty, Pugh, and Flowers were high picks. There are a bunch of mid to late round picks like Brewer that were horrendous whereas almost every team in the NFL has mid to late round guys being productive.

Richburg was a second-round
My point about the O-line, ultimately, is that 2013 ROCK BOTTOM  
Britt in VA : 8/15/2019 10:49 am : link
should have never happened. We should have never hit rock bottom like that.

It forced Gilbride out and made us change our offense, which ultimately led to Ben McAdoo. It all goes back to failure to address the offensive line IN TIME. Complete lack of foresight.

I don't see how anybody can argue from that after fall from being the #1 rushing team in the entire league in 2008 to the 32nd ranked rushing offense in 2011.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Not ignoring, but NEGLECTING addressing the offensive line....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 8/15/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14531027 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14531021 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14531014 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14531010 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


In comment 14530955 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


when cracks started showing in 2009.

That Coughlin Gilbride offense was humming, and we were making the playoffs nearly every year.

When the offensive line fell apart, it all fell apart, and 2011 was the last gasp.

I firmly believe that if they had kept that line young, fresh, and restocked BEFORE it completely came apart at the seams, we could have kept our run going.



I don't agree with this narrative. In 2009 he drafted Beatty who was supposed to be the future LT.

In 2010 he signed Shawn Andrews and that was also the year when Adam Koets had a really good stretch run at center that season, only to pop his ACL and never play again. Gotta believe if he doesn't then Reese doesn't overpay for a mediocre Kevin Baas.

He addressed the line, but none of his picks panned out for an established period of time. Pugh was hurt often and had one really good season, same with Richburg.

We all thought Flowers was promising in his rookie year and he regressed in many ways.

Wasn't for a lack of trying, he was just bad a analyzing offensive lineman. Wasn't a lack of trying, imo.



Beatty was a second round pick. Andrews had mental problems and we took a flyer on him.

We FINALLY spent a 1st round pick on O-line after 2013.



Before 2013 (Pugh was drafted in the 2013 draft,so before the 2013 season).

I do think they waited on the OL too long and then the investment in the OL (which really can't be questioned - and that compounded things) and was loaded with misses (Pugh, Richburg, Flowers, Omameh, etc.)



Agreed, which is why I qualified my initial statement as not ignored, but neglected when the signs started showing early


So investing a 2nd round pick on Will Beatty in 2009 who wasn’t terrible when he played wasn’t a high enough draft pick for an Oline for you?!?
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