Listening to the WFAN today, they were talking about Davis Webb being cut by the Jets. Ben wasn’t a great manager of a locker room and not a great fit for NY as a head coach, but most killed him for starting Geno over giving Webb a shot. Knowing how Webb panned out, do you still hold it against him?
Geno was the 2nd string QB all week and Webb was running the scout team, he wasn't ever in the position to start that game.
McAdoo likely would have given Webb a shot the next week if he had practiced the game plan.
(Have they ever been seen at the same place & time?)
(Have they ever been seen at the same place & time?)
Not that there is much reason to defend Mac, but he never said that.
As I said in threads a couple of years ago, if McAdoo and/or Reese truly believed Webb was the goods, why would they not have put him in position a lot earlier when the season was lost? There is no better story to tell your boss than you are developing/drafted the next franchise qb so you should get at least another year.
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gave..."Geno gives us a better chance to win"...seems right out of the Mickey Callaway playbook (As has been suggested in Mets thread)
(Have they ever been seen at the same place & time?)
Not that there is much reason to defend Mac, but he never said that.
Fair enough, thought I read it somewhere, but maybe not.
He DID later tell Geno he thought he should be starting over Eli tho...but that's not what I was talking about, my bad
Geno / Eli - ( New Window )
As I said in threads a couple of years ago, if McAdoo and/or Reese truly believed Webb was the goods, why would they not have put him in position a lot earlier when the season was lost? There is no better story to tell your boss than you are developing/drafted the next franchise qb so you should get at least another year.
How does that make any sense? So they just burned a 3rd round pick for no reason? Didn’t think they could develop him?
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In comment 14532355 ChaChing said:
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gave..."Geno gives us a better chance to win"...seems right out of the Mickey Callaway playbook (As has been suggested in Mets thread)
(Have they ever been seen at the same place & time?)
Not that there is much reason to defend Mac, but he never said that.
Fair enough, thought I read it somewhere, but maybe not.
He DID later tell Geno he thought he should be starting over Eli tho...but that's not what I was talking about, my bad Geno / Eli - ( New Window )
thats word of mouth from a guy who thinks the world is flat.
I mean aside from the 4 All Pro defenders in 2016 and the other highly regarded defensive players that netted the 2nd best defense in the NFL that year.
Q: With that being said, how do you look at the locker room and your team and say that Geno Smith gives you a better chance to win than Eli Manning?
A: We’re confident that we can put a plan together to put Geno in a position to be successful and go win the game.
However, Geno Smith should have been cut and allowed to go to a contender (that would be dumb enough to sign on for his services) and Webb should've been properly prepared for the #2 spot. Sure, he would've failed, but the team would've been better served knowing that going into 2018.
And who knows what Webb would've done with clear direction as #2.At the very least, McAdoo and Reese probably survive the Raiders game.
.... on second thought, continue as it was.
He was asked multiple times if it was his decision and he answers it the same way each time.
Q: Did you run this by ownership and was this a conversation that you had with them and general manager Jerry Reese?
A: I spoke to Jerry and I spoke to ownership – yes. We’re on the same page.
Q: You went to Jerry Reese and John Mara after you made this decision independently?
A: We’re all on the same page.
Q: Whose idea was it – do you go to them after the decision is made?
A: We’re all on the same page with the decision.
The often missed component was the Giants were evaluating not only the QB position, but the surrounding components.
Without replacing variables in the equation, it's impossible to know which one(s) were the issue.
Swapping Manning for Smith showed the issues were greater than Manning, that it wasn't just his lack of mobility and age, but deep issues with the line. That a younger, more mobile QB had the same issues put that to bed.
Sitting Manning fast-tracked a lot of good; firing Reese, McAdoo, and investing in the line. It's really one of the best things the Giants have done in a while.
In hindsight Donald and Martin would have been better.
Heck that's not even hindsight, bbi had their colle tive eyes on those two, obj was a bit off radar. Another I'm smarter than everyone else pick.
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but Jerry Reese didn't do him any favors other than drafting Beckham.
In hindsight Donald and Martin would have been better.
Heck that's not even hindsight, bbi had their colle tive eyes on those two, obj was a bit off radar. Another I'm smarter than everyone else pick.
So what was your previous handle again?
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Was a terrible coach, but I do believe he knew Webb was not going to be an NFL qb. He never got a shot in practice and it was likely due to the fact that he could not play the position at a high level.
As I said in threads a couple of years ago, if McAdoo and/or Reese truly believed Webb was the goods, why would they not have put him in position a lot earlier when the season was lost? There is no better story to tell your boss than you are developing/drafted the next franchise qb so you should get at least another year.
How does that make any sense? So they just burned a 3rd round pick for no reason? Didn’t think they could develop him?
Is it not possible they both realized the pick was a mistake and didn't want to further embarrass themselves? Is this the first time a Reese mid round pick was a complete waste?
DJ is getting reps right now with legit NFL players, why could Webb barely scrape the practice squad with the Giants?
I don’t recall that game being much different than any other Giant game that season
this is the only quote I can find that discusses Geno's skill set. Either way, saying someone can make all the throws is hardly a ringing endorsement.
Q: How much do you think a mobile quarterback can be different to work with or can be helpful to you at this point?
A: As far as Geno, Geno has a skillset that is a little bit different than Eli. He is a pocket passer and he can do some creating on the move. I think that’s something Eli has gotten better at over the years, but Geno can create on the move. He’s going to have to pick his spots. They’re a very, very talented rush this week. But, I’m excited to watch him play.
It didn't woek obviously, last ditch efforts made in desperation often don't, but that's what I've always felt about this.
It didn't woek obviously, last ditch efforts made in desperation often don't, but that's what I've always felt about this.
If that is the case, why not make the move before you are eliminated?
This stinking disaster just rolled along for a decade, gathering strength as it went while ownership ignored the growing signs of management incompetence.
Webb was a mistake, one of a long, long, long line of draft mistakes by Reese & Ross. But he comes out of this with the least egg on his face. And hopefully he will get on with his career which seems to be destined to make him a coach someday.
Geno ("Mr. Big Play For The Opponent") was a disaster from the word go. I have a nice collection of low-mileage bridges to show to anybody who thinks he is a starting QB in this league.
McAdoo was totally incompetent. Actually worse than Ray Handley. There, I've said it.
As somebody who suffered through the seemingly endless string of Championship losses in the late 50s and early 60s followed by the fifteen years of lousy football, I am very relieved that this largely lost decade of incompetence is behind us. And I am very sorry that Eli Manning, who is probably the best QB the team has ever had, was forced to waste the best years of his career during this awful time.
It didn't woek obviously, last ditch efforts made in desperation often don't, but that's what I've always felt about this.
It was a totally desperate move, and Jerry Reese was involved in this as well don’t ever forget that
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In comment 14532370 lax counsel said:
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Was a terrible coach, but I do believe he knew Webb was not going to be an NFL qb. He never got a shot in practice and it was likely due to the fact that he could not play the position at a high level.
As I said in threads a couple of years ago, if McAdoo and/or Reese truly believed Webb was the goods, why would they not have put him in position a lot earlier when the season was lost? There is no better story to tell your boss than you are developing/drafted the next franchise qb so you should get at least another year.
How does that make any sense? So they just burned a 3rd round pick for no reason? Didn’t think they could develop him?
Is it not possible they both realized the pick was a mistake and didn't want to further embarrass themselves? Is this the first time a Reese mid round pick was a complete waste?
DJ is getting reps right now with legit NFL players, why could Webb barely scrape the practice squad with the Giants?
It's inconceivable how SF can drag the carcass of Nick Mullens off the street and do ok and we can't scout and draft a remotely functional QB. Inconceivable.
Mcadoo, Smith and Webb were the Unholy Trinity eldritch horror of Suck.
point in Giant history the Eli benching still
boils my blood ..
The Giants weren’t going to alter their season.
Tough to imagine ownership would turn on Eli.
It seems like it only really exposed what bad management decisions or lack thereof were coming out of ownership...
Eli an ironman who has been available to play every game for 14.5 years. That's all that counts.
As far as McAdoo, I don't fault him for starting Geno. Mac knew he was in trouble and he needed to prove that Eli was part of the problem in order to have any chance to stay on as HC.
I do think Mara scaped-goated McAdoo for the Eli benching when it was clearly a group decision by HC, GM and owner. But I think the reason Mac got fired was because he lost the locker room.
The 11-5 record the year before covered up McAdoo's leadership deficencies. But the next year when the going got tough he was exposed.
I’m a little puzzled by the attempts here to rehab McAdoo’s image. He sucked, deal with it.
Coaches don’t think like fans. He knew Webb didn’t have it and had no interest in playing him
In his situation he made the correct decision once he decided to move on from Eli
IIRC, Geno did *slightly* better than Eli had been doing. Like, a sliver better. Which is about what you would expect from a guy who hadn't played, starting on the road. If they thought Geno had some upside and that he gave them a better chance to win going forward, fine — they should have stuck with him. If they thought that Geno was a known quantity, inferior to Manning, but they needed to shake up the offense, that's stupid but at least it's a reason.
But starting Geno and ending the streak, then going back to Eli, was flat-out gutless. If they couldn't handle the bad PR, they shouldn't have ended the streak. If they didn't think Geno was an upgrade over Eli they shouldn't have made the switch. If Geno had to be WAY better than Eli to keep playing, then why bother making the change? It's not fair to Geno and it embarrassed everybody.
The whole thing stank. Idiots. Mara, McAdoo, Reese, all of 'em. Hopefully Mara learned his lesson.
Trying to make some logic out of the machinations of this bunch of half-wits is an exercise in futility.
Calvera: And?
Vin: He said, "It seemed to be a good idea at the time."
Eli an ironman who has been available to play every game for 14.5 years. That's all that counts.
As far as McAdoo, I don't fault him for starting Geno. Mac knew he was in trouble and he needed to prove that Eli was part of the problem in order to have any chance to stay on as HC.
I do think Mara scaped-goated McAdoo for the Eli benching when it was clearly a group decision by HC, GM and owner. But I think the reason Mac got fired was because he lost the locker room.
The 11-5 record the year before covered up McAdoo's leadership deficencies. But the next year when the going got tough he was exposed.
Never understood the passion for Eli s streak. How meaningful was it when 5 of the previous 6 seasons were losing efforts for the team
When they were at 1 or 2 wins, you cut Geno and have Webb get all the practice reps. Hell, he was supposedly a study rat and picks things up quickly.