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New York Giants-Chicago Bears Game Discussion Thread

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/16/2019 7:23 pm
Not expected to play tonight #CHIvsNYG:

RB Barkley (coaches decision)
RB Gallman (ankle)
CB Beal (hamstring)
CB Baker (knee)
LB Ogletree (calf)
OT Mihalik (burner)
OT Asafo-Adjei (concussion)
WR Slayton (hamstring)
WR S. Shepard (thumb)
TE Engram (coaches decision)
LS Zak DeOssie (toe)
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 12 13 14 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: for  
AcidTest : 8/16/2019 10:34 pm : link
In comment 14533320 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
as much love as we gave C.J. Conrad, Garrett Dickerson has looked pretty good.


Agreed.
RE: RE: This kid (Hilliman)  
Simms11 : 8/16/2019 10:34 pm : link
In comment 14533338 Simms11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14533335 Bill L said:


Quote:


Doesnít look half bad



I think heís defined for the PS, unless one of the backs in front of him get hurt?!


destined, not defined....ugh
RE: Not too pile on but it's nice not to see  
Motley Two : 8/16/2019 10:34 pm : link
In comment 14533336 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
The camera not constantly on OBJ
these guys are having fun and look to be together
as a team .


Just wait until the NFL unveils their new picture in picture feature in the regular season.
these  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/16/2019 10:34 pm : link
shotgun formations inside the 5-yard line drive me nuts.
It's good to see Hillman  
Captplanet : 8/16/2019 10:34 pm : link
thanking his line just now. The camaraderie on this team is impressive
RE: ...  
Bill L : 8/16/2019 10:34 pm : link
In comment 14533339 christian said:
Quote:
I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?

I know itís only preseason but even so, I believe this team will be better than you think.
RE: Wheeler  
RobCarpenter : 8/16/2019 10:35 pm : link
In comment 14533337 AcidTest said:
Quote:
was beaten badly on that long third and eight run by Hillman.


ďGet your playbook, coach wants to see youĒ
RE: RE: This kid (Hilliman)  
section125 : 8/16/2019 10:35 pm : link
In comment 14533340 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14533335 Bill L said:


Quote:


Doesnít look half bad


226 lbs, but looks very shifty for a guy his size. Kind of like 230 lb SB.


I'd like to see him vs better competition. He looks pretty doggone good. Has some speed too.
RE: ...  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/16/2019 10:36 pm : link
In comment 14533339 christian said:
Quote:
I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?


It's just a final thank you to Eli before they move on for good.
RE: ...  
crick n NC : 8/16/2019 10:36 pm : link
In comment 14533339 christian said:
Quote:
I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?


Perhaps they believe winning makes a difference in the attitude of your team.

If manning gives them the better chance to turn his team into a winning team then it's an easy decision.

A team can have a successful season without a championship. Some believe winning consistently is good for the mindset of your team
RE: RE: ...  
crick n NC : 8/16/2019 10:37 pm : link
In comment 14533350 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14533339 christian said:


Quote:


I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?



It's just a final thank you to Eli before they move on for good.


You honestly think the giants are wasting a season just to send a player off?
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 8/16/2019 10:38 pm : link
In comment 14533347 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14533339 christian said:


Quote:


I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?


I know itís only preseason but even so, I believe this team will be better than you think.


Do you believe this team is good enough to seriously compete for a championship?
did  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/16/2019 10:38 pm : link
Jake Carlock even play?
RE: RE: ...  
Bill L : 8/16/2019 10:38 pm : link
In comment 14533351 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 14533339 christian said:


Quote:


I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?



Perhaps they believe winning makes a difference in the attitude of your team.

If manning gives them the better chance to turn his team into a winning team then it's an easy decision.

A team can have a successful season without a championship. Some believe winning consistently is good for the mindset of your team
it seems like we have an inordinate number of fans here whose objective is to lose.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/16/2019 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14533355 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 14533350 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 14533339 christian said:


Quote:


I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?



It's just a final thank you to Eli before they move on for good.



You honestly think the giants are wasting a season just to send a player off?


Eli has one year left on his contract. I think they're giving this to him and letting him play this final year (or at least until the middle/latter part of the season). Did you see how they reacted when Eli got benched?
They are building  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 8/16/2019 10:39 pm : link
A team.
And an inordinate..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/16/2019 10:40 pm : link
amount who think the fans are dictating the decisions that the team is making.

I think there's a shortage of tin foil in the Tri-State area
IDK about that Dave  
adamg : 8/16/2019 10:40 pm : link
Eli may be on the back 9, but he's still a pro. We may not win, but Eli is a legit player.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
crick n NC : 8/16/2019 10:40 pm : link
In comment 14533360 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14533355 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 14533350 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 14533339 christian said:


Quote:


I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?



It's just a final thank you to Eli before they move on for good.



You honestly think the giants are wasting a season just to send a player off?



Eli has one year left on his contract. I think they're giving this to him and letting him play this final year (or at least until the middle/latter part of the season). Did you see how they reacted when Eli got benched?


Yes I was paying attention. Even with that data I was never lead to believe they would simply waste a season
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/16/2019 10:42 pm : link
In comment 14533365 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 14533360 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 14533355 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 14533350 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 14533339 christian said:


Quote:


I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?



It's just a final thank you to Eli before they move on for good.



You honestly think the giants are wasting a season just to send a player off?



Eli has one year left on his contract. I think they're giving this to him and letting him play this final year (or at least until the middle/latter part of the season). Did you see how they reacted when Eli got benched?



Yes I was paying attention. Even with that data I was never lead to believe they would simply waste a season


It's not a gift. He's under contract anyway.
When dafuq  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/16/2019 10:42 pm : link
Was the last time we didn't look like utter total crap during the preseason?
RE: IDK about that Dave  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/16/2019 10:43 pm : link
In comment 14533364 adamg said:
Quote:
Eli may be on the back 9, but he's still a pro. We may not win, but Eli is a legit player.


Huh?
RE: They are building  
j_rud : 8/16/2019 10:43 pm : link
In comment 14533361 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
A team.


Came away with the same feeling. And it feels pretty good.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
dep026 : 8/16/2019 10:44 pm : link
In comment 14533356 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14533347 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 14533339 christian said:


Quote:


I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?


I know itís only preseason but even so, I believe this team will be better than you think.



Do you believe this team is good enough to seriously compete for a championship?


Probably not.... but if Eli is better than Jones (which I believe he is right now), you play Eli until youíre proven not.

Dallas has problems with elliott and a bunch of injuries. Guys fussing over contracts. Wentz hasnít proven to stay healthy. And Washington is in a free fall with their QBs.

Hereís what I believe. We are on the right path. And we are narrowing the gap. So with some luck, couple bounces - who knows?

The energy and attitude of this team just feels different than what we have rolled out the last 5-6 years.
...  
christian : 8/16/2019 10:45 pm : link
As cynical as it might seem, I'd much rather Jones get through the growing pains, than the Giants win 9 games this year.

Losing now for the sake of experience, and an investment in the future of the team is a sacrifice I'd gladly accept as a fan.
RE: ...  
dep026 : 8/16/2019 10:46 pm : link
In comment 14533374 christian said:
Quote:
As cynical as it might seem, I'd much rather Jones get through the growing pains, than the Giants win 9 games this year.

Losing now for the sake of experience, and an investment in the future of the team is a sacrifice I'd gladly accept as a fan.


What if 9 games gets you in the playoffs?
DJ8 is sick  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/16/2019 10:46 pm : link
Looking off a safety for a good chunk of yardage.
Danny Dimes.  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/16/2019 10:47 pm : link
.
You could..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/16/2019 10:49 pm : link
win 9 games this year and still have Jones learn enough to take over full-time next year.

That's worked over and over again in the NFL. If anything, starting immediately out of the gate has led to many flameouts, although the percentage of that happening has lessened in recent years.

I'll try and find the exact n umber, but since 1990, the number of first round QB's who started for more than 3 years after sitting at least a year was like 1.5 times higher than the number of QB's who started for three years or more who started immediately
Agree with crick  
Bill2 : 8/16/2019 10:52 pm : link
I agree with the thinking seen in cricks post at 10:36
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 8/16/2019 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14533377 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14533374 christian said:


Quote:


As cynical as it might seem, I'd much rather Jones get through the growing pains, than the Giants win 9 games this year.

Losing now for the sake of experience, and an investment in the future of the team is a sacrifice I'd gladly accept as a fan.



What if 9 games gets you in the playoffs?


If the Giants get in the tournament it was worth it.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
dep026 : 8/16/2019 10:57 pm : link
In comment 14533402 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14533377 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14533374 christian said:


Quote:


As cynical as it might seem, I'd much rather Jones get through the growing pains, than the Giants win 9 games this year.

Losing now for the sake of experience, and an investment in the future of the team is a sacrifice I'd gladly accept as a fan.



What if 9 games gets you in the playoffs?



If the Giants get in the tournament it was worth it.


👍
RE: ...  
Bill L : 8/16/2019 11:09 pm : link
In comment 14533374 christian said:
Quote:
As cynical as it might seem, I'd much rather Jones get through the growing pains, than the Giants win 9 games this year.

Losing now for the sake of experience, and an investment in the future of the team is a sacrifice I'd gladly accept as a fan.

Thereís a very flawed assumption that if he sits and learns in practice and starts next year ear, that he would still have growing pains and we would have a less than optimal season. Thereís really no data to support this; anything is conjecture. Whatís real is for people who get paid to do their job to the fullest.
The data..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/16/2019 11:11 pm : link
actually supports the opposite. At least for 1st rounders.
RE: ...  
TrueBlue56 : 8/16/2019 11:14 pm : link
In comment 14533374 christian said:
Quote:
As cynical as it might seem, I'd much rather Jones get through the growing pains, than the Giants win 9 games this year.

Losing now for the sake of experience, and an investment in the future of the team is a sacrifice I'd gladly accept as a fan.


Well, good to know you would forfeit a season because you don't think the giants can compete. Good thing the giants don't follow that line of thinking or 2007 and 2011 would have never happened.

The giants can compete this year and still remain competitive whenever they decide to transition to Daniel Jones. I don't understand how anyone thinks that they can't. Did the chiefs struggle with mahomes? How about Aaron Rodgers when they moved on from Favre? Rivers sat behind breese for 2 seasons and posted a 14-2 record his 1st year as a starter
RE: RE: ...  
Brown_Hornet : 8/16/2019 11:22 pm : link
In comment 14533351 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 14533339 christian said:


Quote:


I still struggle to understand how management saw the 5-11 team from last year, the number of rookies and 2nd year players in key roles this year, and the number of new players in the system, and thinks this is a team that can compete for a championship.

Because why would you pay and play Manning in front of Jones unless they really think this team has a legitimate shot at championship?



Perhaps they believe winning makes a difference in the attitude of your team.

If manning gives them the better chance to turn his team into a winning team then it's an easy decision.

A team can have a successful season without a championship. Some believe winning consistently is good for the mindset of your team

+1
And having a bad team..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/16/2019 11:26 pm : link
and then starting a first rounder immediately has really taken quite a few guys down.

You don't need to call it the Packers model or the Chiefs model. A first rounder starting immediately on a bad team could have lasting damage. I don't think the Giants are terrible, but you've seen it with a litany of Cleveland Browns QB's. David Carr. Joey Harrington.

...  
christian : 8/16/2019 11:39 pm : link
There's very little in common between the 07, 11, and 19 Giants. The championship teams followed a playoff team and a 10 win team, with a young veteran QB entering his prime.

The 2019 Giants are following consecutive last place finishes with a lame duck quarterback at the end of his career.

I've been highly consistent in my opinion on the quarterback position from the end of last year; cut Manning, sign a much cheaper stop gap, draft a first round player and ease him in. I call that the Tom Coughlin model.

I'm not advocating throwing Jones to the wolves. I'd much rather throw a much less valuable player like Taney at the wolves.

But the worst case is Manning playing 16 games and Jones walking into 2020 with no starts under his belt.
RE: Bunche not a good showing tonight  
Milton : 8/17/2019 2:31 am : link
In comment 14533295 Simms11 said:
Quote:
many penalties
C'mon, man, that was crying out for you to say "a bunch of penalties"
RE: ...  
Mike in NY : 8/17/2019 7:35 am : link
In comment 14533449 christian said:
Quote:
There's very little in common between the 07, 11, and 19 Giants. The championship teams followed a playoff team and a 10 win team, with a young veteran QB entering his prime.

The 2019 Giants are following consecutive last place finishes with a lame duck quarterback at the end of his career.

I've been highly consistent in my opinion on the quarterback position from the end of last year; cut Manning, sign a much cheaper stop gap, draft a first round player and ease him in. I call that the Tom Coughlin model.

I'm not advocating throwing Jones to the wolves. I'd much rather throw a much less valuable player like Taney at the wolves.

But the worst case is Manning playing 16 games and Jones walking into 2020 with no starts under his belt.


If the Giants are winning and the offense is working the Giants seem comfortable with an Alex Smith/Pat Mahomes approach.
...  
christian : 8/17/2019 9:26 am : link
The 2016 Chiefs were a 12 win team with the 7th best defense in football. They had every reason to believe their incumbent quarterback could help them compete for a championship -- that team has nothing in common with the Giants.

I'm not making a complicated point -- I'm simply saying if you don't believe you can make a run at it -- it's better to have a plan to get the young guy an quickly as responsible.

I'm not saying throw him to the wolves and ruin him, I'm saying when he's ready to execute a gameplan get him starting.
RE: ...  
TrueBlue56 : 8/17/2019 9:35 am : link
In comment 14533637 christian said:
Quote:
The 2016 Chiefs were a 12 win team with the 7th best defense in football. They had every reason to believe their incumbent quarterback could help them compete for a championship -- that team has nothing in common with the Giants.

I'm not making a complicated point -- I'm simply saying if you don't believe you can make a run at it -- it's better to have a plan to get the young guy an quickly as responsible.

I'm not saying throw him to the wolves and ruin him, I'm saying when he's ready to execute a gameplan get him starting.


But, that is the point. Just because you don't think they can make a run at it doesn't mean the giants feel that way. It is not absolutely necessary to get Daniel Jones starts. Plenty of quarterbacks have sat for most of the season and more and played well when their opportunity came. They can learn by watching too.
...  
christian : 8/17/2019 9:43 am : link
Do you believe the Giants can make a championship run?
RE: ...  
dep026 : 8/17/2019 9:50 am : link
In comment 14533662 christian said:
Quote:
Do you believe the Giants can make a championship run?


Why does it have to be a championship or bust? And it doesnt matter what we think.

If the Giants coaches and brass think they can go out and win a lot of football games with Eli then thats what they are going to do. And if we happpen to stink, which is quite possible, then they will make the switch.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 8/17/2019 9:56 am : link
In comment 14533668 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14533662 christian said:


Quote:


Do you believe the Giants can make a championship run?



Why does it have to be a championship or bust? And it doesnt matter what we think.

If the Giants coaches and brass think they can go out and win a lot of football games with Eli then thats what they are going to do. And if we happpen to stink, which is quite possible, then they will make the switch.


Dep -- if every discussion comes down to "what does it matter what we think" -- Eric might as well close up shop.

I respect Gettleman and Shurmur enough to assume they believe the team can compete, I'm genuinely interested in what the fans think.

Most of the examples of teams who stashed QBs for a full year or more were pretty good teams already, so I don't get those comparisons. I'm looking to understand if there are other more intellectually interesting arguments.
RE: ...  
TrueBlue56 : 8/17/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14533662 christian said:
Quote:
Do you believe the Giants can make a championship run?


It doesn't matter what you or I think. It's what the giants think. What the giants think now may change during the course of the season and they will adjust. Last year they thought they had stabilized the offensive line with omameh and flowers on the right side. It didn't work and they made changes. The season will play itself out and reveal where this team is.

With all that said, you asked if I think they can make a championship run. I think the giants could be in contention for the playoffs down the stretch (whether it be for the division or a wild card spot) and if they make the playoffs, anything can happen. We have seen teams get hot late and make a run.

We are not the saints or the rams, but we aren't the Miami dolphins either.
...  
christian : 8/17/2019 10:03 am : link
Thanks Trueblue -- I think that's a fair point -- the Giants aren't the Dolphins and it wouldn't be jaw dropping if the Giants were in contention at the end.

I think the Giants are further away than many fans. I think when the games matter we'll see a defense with a lot of youth and growing pains, and WR set that's very average and will effectively shorten the field.

I won't be surprised if the Giants are competitive and come up short to the tune of a 3-5 start, but with Manning playing efficient football behind a better line and a better running game.

And that's where I see things getting really tough. What happens if Manning is playing pretty good ball but the Giants aren't winning. How do you handle the season?
RE: ...  
TrueBlue56 : 8/17/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14533686 christian said:
Quote:
Thanks Trueblue -- I think that's a fair point -- the Giants aren't the Dolphins and it wouldn't be jaw dropping if the Giants were in contention at the end.

I think the Giants are further away than many fans. I think when the games matter we'll see a defense with a lot of youth and growing pains, and WR set that's very average and will effectively shorten the field.

I won't be surprised if the Giants are competitive and come up short to the tune of a 3-5 start, but with Manning playing efficient football behind a better line and a better running game.

And that's where I see things getting really tough. What happens if Manning is playing pretty good ball but the Giants aren't winning. How do you handle the season?


I have a feeling this offense is going to put up some points. The offensive line is key to that success, but I really like what we have there, As far as wide receivers, I see a lot of what shurmur had in Minnesota with Diggs and Thielen. Tate and shepard can create space within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage and get yards after catch. I view the wide receiver group as "the sum is greater than its parts". Engram is also going to be a factor and we will see contributions from players like Fowler, TJ Jones and latimer.

Barkley is another factor and I believe if the passing game is proficient enough, Barkley will find holes to run the ball.

The defense is the biggest unknown, but I really like the mix of veteran leadership with bethea, ogletree, markus golden and Jenkins with young talented fast players. They will have their struggles for sure, but depends how much.

The season really does reveal what teams really are and it will be no different this year. What if we struggle and are 3-5 after 8 games, but the rest of the division is struggling too and we are only 1 game back of the division. What if we see the defense coming on and really playing well.

So many variables that can play out and dictate the decision making. In 2004 we were 5-4 and still fighting for the division when Coughlin made the move to Eli.
...  
christian : 8/17/2019 11:19 am : link
That's a great point -- there are many variables and unknowns and the season will reveal all.

And that's my point -- in all the myriad scenarios -- the only one where Eli Manning playing the majority of the games clearly gets the Giants closer to the ultimate goal is if they are unambiguously a contender.

And if the Giants aren't an unambiguous contender I don't see the utility in Manning taking away snaps from Jones.

I deeply hope by the midpoint this Giants regime has the fortitude the Coughlin regime did.
RE: ...  
TrueBlue56 : 8/17/2019 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14533817 christian said:
Quote:
That's a great point -- there are many variables and unknowns and the season will reveal all.

And that's my point -- in all the myriad scenarios -- the only one where Eli Manning playing the majority of the games clearly gets the Giants closer to the ultimate goal is if they are unambiguously a contender.

And if the Giants aren't an unambiguous contender I don't see the utility in Manning taking away snaps from Jones.

I deeply hope by the midpoint this Giants regime has the fortitude the Coughlin regime did.


In 2007, our defense was blown out by 80 points in the first 2 games and looked like the season was going to go down the toilet. The defense showed nothing, but then they got it together and got significantly better as the season progressed and were eventually instrumental in the playoffs to a superbowl championship.

In 2011, we had a horrible running game. We struggled mightily to run the ball, with any consistency, but then late in the season we started running the ball better and it propelled us into the playoffs and again the running game was a key factor in the playoff run to a superbowl championship.

My point is that teams can improve as the season goes on and we don't know how much of an impact that improvement can mean. This defense could really struggle early on, but by week 8 or 9, they could be really making an impact in a positive way in games.

You seem to feel that Daniel Jones needs to start and the sooner the better. I do not share that sentiment. There are some quarterbacks that have had success starting from day one and others that have struggled as starters from day 1. There are quarterbacks that have had success after sitting for a year or more and others that have struggled. It is not a detriment to the team or Daniel Jones if he doesn't start this year.

Daniel Jones has already come in and showed some very positive production and talent. He will learn a lot from watching and studying.
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