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I was wrong on Daniel Jones

huygens20 : 8/17/2019 1:27 am
I derided the pick because of my hatred against Gettleman. Had anyone else picked him I wouldnít have cared; in fact I said quite a few times that there were things on his tape that I liked, and by that point I had come to realize that Haskins had serious issues with his mobility and throwing motion.

Specifically the fact that daniel Jones knew where the ball was supposed to go on almost every play. This is very evident that he has a chance at being a high iq level for football. At duke he never dropped back and wandered around. He got the ball out very quickly on first down like he was a robot. I wrote that he reminded me of an upgraded Alex Smith which gives him a good shot at being a top 10 qb.


But whatever,


For the record this wonít stop me from hating gettleman
Why the Gettleman hate?  
Vin_Cuccs : 8/17/2019 1:30 am : link
Maybe heís a bit abrasive or smug yo the media, be he is transforming this roster in front of our eyes.
why hate for dg? heís george young like in some ways and thatís to be  
plato : 8/17/2019 1:33 am : link
expected. But george young brought us from disaster to the top,
ok parcells hated gy but thatís another story, so why hate dg?
I personally like DG but can understand he might not be for everyone..  
Torrag : 8/17/2019 1:47 am : link
...but you hate him? Not sure how he elicits such a strong reaction.
Also, it sounds like you have at least enough of an eye  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 1:56 am : link
to trust it from film, even if you're not a scout. So use actual football to craft an opinion about him as a player instead of from biases for other people, media, fans and their opinions, etc

Seems crazy you saw all that on film then in one fell swoop ignored it because of your opinion of someone else...which has nothing to do with his production as a player
To be clear I'm saying the reasoning is crazy...(to me)  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 1:59 am : link
not that you're crazy...(for this :-P)
For the record  
Daniel in MI : 8/17/2019 3:35 am : link
I donít recall Tuna hating GY, he just was frustrated with the GY philosophy that coaches coach and managers manage. Tuna wanted to ďbuy the groceries if he was going to cook the meal.Ē Young was a 5 time NFL exec of the year. He put together 2 super bowl winners. No doubt he struggled to adjust to the cap era, mostly overvaluing our own guys. But pre cap he was outstanding.
As for DG  
Daniel in MI : 8/17/2019 3:41 am : link
I donít get hating him. After Reese and EA, I find him like fresh air. He actually explains his thinking. Agree or disagree, he puts it out there. He also doesnít tip his hand like EA did. He admits being wrong on FAs and cuts bait quickly. He builds out from the lines.

But DG staked his legacy on DJ, ultimately, and early returns look promising. Thanks
RE: Also, it sounds like you have at least enough of an eye  
montanagiant : 8/17/2019 3:53 am : link
In comment 14533487 ChaChing said:
Quote:
to trust it from film, even if you're not a scout. So use actual football to craft an opinion about him as a player instead of from biases for other people, media, fans and their opinions, etc

Seems crazy you saw all that on film then in one fell swoop ignored it because of your opinion of someone else...which has nothing to do with his production as a player


You know what? Give the guy some credit for coming on here and posting that he was wrong. That's a rarity on BBI
Hating Gettleman?  
Breaker : 8/17/2019 6:10 am : link
In comment 14533486 Torrag said:
Quote:
...but you hate him? Not sure how he elicits such a strong reaction.


This has to be more about his style/abrasiveness and not what he is doing with the team. I think he gas overstated his impact on the Panthers and previous stints with Giants but I think that was in reaction criticism to his unpopular moves.

As pointed out by others he has reshaped the roster for the better and created cap space going forward. Rebuilt the offensive line, the defensive line, the secondary, drafted a generational RB, and brought in Eli's replacement. Oh yes-also got rid of all the malcontents.

Didn't we all want exactly what he has done?
Idk why anybody would hate DG  
Big Rick in FL : 8/17/2019 6:12 am : link
He took over a terrible team with little cap room or draft capital. In two off seasons has added a ton of talent through the draft including a potential franchise QB and a franchise RB. Going into free agency next year we now have a ton of cap space. At least so far our depth looks better than it's looked in a very long time. Our backups have come in and played pretty damn well in preseason on both sides of the ball.
Hate may not be word I would use to describe  
bhill410 : 8/17/2019 6:18 am : link
Dg, but I would strongly prefer we have another gm as well. I frankly donít think the guy is that capable, and we are entrusting him with franchise altering decisions. Time will tell, but that was my initial reaction. Stewart may not be a franchise crippling decision but it was one of the strangest ones I have seen. But nothing to lose sleep over, I just donít get the blind faith in his skill set.
RE: RE: Also, it sounds like you have at least enough of an eye  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 6:24 am : link
In comment 14533497 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14533487 ChaChing said:
Quote:
to trust it from film, even if you're not a scout. So use actual football to craft an opinion about him as a player instead of from biases for other people, media, fans and their opinions, etc

Seems crazy you saw all that on film then in one fell swoop ignored it because of your opinion of someone else...which has nothing to do with his production as a player


You know what? Give the guy some credit for coming on here and posting that he was wrong. That's a rarity on BBI

Surely. I didn't mean to sound that critical, nor referenced that

Tho it came off backhanded a bit, I was complimenting his football eye based on what he said he saw in DJ from Duke games, saying he should trust it over his opinion of the GM, because that's unrelated to how DJ plays
No, you and others were NOT wrong yet,  
Big Blue '56 : 8/17/2019 6:34 am : link
not after practice time and short preseason game stints. Not any more right or wrong than you and others were at draft time or after observing a rather pathetic receiving corps at Duke (from what I heard)..

We will know when the bullets start flying for real and that may take some time.

Where I felt confident in this guy ONLY stemmed from the fact that Shurmur, a real QB guru, imo, was ok with DG pulling the trigger at 6. THAT was the tell-all TO ME.

Oh and btw? Should he become everything we hope for, you know what the backtracking will inevitably me from the negative media and fans? He will go from the ďworst pick ever(at 6)Ē to, ďhe had his flaws, but my negative reaction was mainly based on taking him at 6.Ē This, despite, pretty reputable sources saying he would have been gone by 17, given that there were supposedly several teams ready to take him.

So please, stop with the right or wrong, at this point. We just donít know, yet. Thatís what should have been the case when people in the know had the wherewithal to make an informed decision. We will of vourse find out if they were correct. In time.

It s amazing to me how  
joeinpa : 8/17/2019 6:37 am : link
Fans actually believe they know better than the professionals from time to time.

I understand wanting another player besides Jones, but once the pick was made the amount of outrage expressed before seeing him play a single snap was ludicrous and comical
RE: It s amazing to me how  
Big Blue '56 : 8/17/2019 6:42 am : link
In comment 14533517 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Fans actually believe they know better than the professionals from time to time.

I understand wanting another player besides Jones, but once the pick was made the amount of outrage expressed before seeing him play a single snap was ludicrous and comical


The good news is that I know squat about college football. The bad news is that I bought into many BBIers disdain for Jones and for picking him at 6. I was shocked at first, until I calmed down and realized who was overreacting and who was confident in the pick (the Giants). I will try not to make that knee jerk response again. I said I will try. :)
56  
joeinpa : 8/17/2019 7:27 am : link
I ve done the same a lot more when I was younger

As I ve gotten older I ve begun to understand better the concept of I donít know what I donít know.

As to media and other fans takes on things, I used to be really influenced by it. I ve come to realize I know more about the team I root for than do 90% of the media that cover them.

As for fans I learned long time ago as a coach, fans usually donít totally understand enough to be relied upon for good advice
RE: Hate may not be word I would use to describe  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 8/17/2019 7:43 am : link
In comment 14533511 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Dg, but I would strongly prefer we have another gm as well. I frankly donít think the guy is that capable, and we are entrusting him with franchise altering decisions. Time will tell, but that was my initial reaction. Stewart may not be a franchise crippling decision but it was one of the strangest ones I have seen. But nothing to lose sleep over, I just donít get the blind faith in his skill set.


Capable? Yes. Blind faith? No, but why no grey area here? I think evidence suggests that he is capable.

If Jones loves up to his potential that's a pretty big feather in Gettleman's cap, and certainly evidence that he knows more than 90% of BBI that spent April calling him a senile fool.
I was never pissed at the pick. But I was shocked because  
Blue21 : 8/17/2019 7:48 am : link
I believed we were going after a pass rusher from all the BBI talk and mocks. I figured if by rare chance we went QB Haskins would be the guy. who I actually liked. In hind sight DJ is a Giant now and I'm a big fan. I hope he succeeds and the first two preseason games look very good. Haskins? I believe he may turn out very good too but time will tell on both. DJ may be the better pick for NY. At least that's what I hope. DG? So far so goo and I don't understand the dislike. As another poster said I thinks he's a breath of fresh air compared to others.
I LOVE what I'm seeing  
liteamorn : 8/17/2019 7:52 am : link
I thought Josh Allen should have been the pick, I was wrong. I love his attitude and his play so far . Gettleman has us moving in the right direction.
Heís looked good  
UberAlias : 8/17/2019 7:57 am : link
Encouraging to see. But it is vanilla defense played by backups. This is a far cry from Philly or Dallas. We do know this, I hope.
RE: RE: Hate may not be word I would use to describe  
gmenatlarge : 8/17/2019 8:04 am : link
In comment 14533546 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14533511 bhill410 said:


Quote:


Dg, but I would strongly prefer we have another gm as well. I frankly donít think the guy is that capable, and we are entrusting him with franchise altering decisions. Time will tell, but that was my initial reaction. Stewart may not be a franchise crippling decision but it was one of the strangest ones I have seen. But nothing to lose sleep over, I just donít get the blind faith in his skill set.

I donít either, a lot of assumptions being made about how improved this team is. This is very difficult to gauge when going against vanilla defenses and backups. There are still very few tangible results to indicate how good or bad this team is going to be, better to judge it after some real action.


Capable? Yes. Blind faith? No, but why no grey area here? I think evidence suggests that he is capable.

If Jones loves up to his potential that's a pretty big feather in Gettleman's cap, and certainly evidence that he knows more than 90% of BBI that spent April calling him a senile fool.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/17/2019 8:26 am : link
What Fiddy said...

No need for proclamations yet. Jones wouldn't be the first rookie to look promising and flame out.

I think just as importantly as it was to not write him off the night he was drafted, it's equally important to keep our expectations in check and understand that there will be struggles and rough patches and probably games where he looks terrible - whenever the keys are handed over to him.

We're all anxious to see what the future holds for Daniel, but as of right now... we really don't know anything.

That being said...

It's absolutely impossible to not love what you've seen thus far. Some beautiful throws. He's really put his arm talent on display in this small window here and I'm really impressed with what I've seen.

He was so hard to evaluate or get a read on @ Duke. Everything I watched, there were almost always guys on his side of the ball that couldn't do their jobs. Whether it was not being able to block, drops, mistakes.. you name it.

But even the stuff I watched of him in college - he just looks like he's throwing the ball better right now than I had seen before.

Let's just enjoy the journey and root for the kid...
LOL  
ZogZerg : 8/17/2019 8:39 am : link
after about 30 preseason snaps you have made a 180 on a draft pick. Sounds like you are influenced easily about things.
Glad to see a lot of love for DG  
5BowlsSoon : 8/17/2019 8:49 am : link
Because he deserves it, big time. He has changed our team in one year from a team most of us had a bad feeling about to a team that now has much more promise, much more depth, and much better Big players in the trenches. Not to mention a team that appears to love playing football and doesnít direct attention to themselves at the detriment of the team.

I even laugh at the guys who are predicting us to still get 5 wins this year. I just write them off as not really knowing football and not really understanding player development. It makes no sense to think the Giants will be the same as last year when our team is so much better.
Easy now. Weíve played two preseason games and DJ  
RDJR : 8/17/2019 9:39 am : link
did have two turnovers last night which may have been devastating in a regular season game. The jury is out on both PS and DG. We have to wait and see. Iím not sold on the WR group or the LB group and time will tell. I still believe this team lacks talent on both sides of the ball. I believe DG is aware of that and is building. Iím not sure PS is the leader of men that this team will need. Fans are impatient, and we have the right to be at this point, but in the middle of August it is impossible to know what we have and until DJ is the starting QB this is all projection and wishful thinking.
RE: Easy now. Weíve played two preseason games and DJ  
5BowlsSoon : 8/17/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14533656 RDJR said:
Quote:
did have two turnovers last night which may have been devastating in a regular season game. The jury is out on both PS and DG. We have to wait and see. Iím not sold on the WR group or the LB group and time will tell. I still believe this team lacks talent on both sides of the ball. I believe DG is aware of that and is building. Iím not sure PS is the leader of men that this team will need. Fans are impatient, and we have the right to be at this point, but in the middle of August it is impossible to know what we have and until DJ is the starting QB this is all projection and wishful thinking.


I think any knowledgeable fan understands that the first fumble was just growing up pains. He NEVER took a snap under center in college, so obviously he is learning to do,this. No one should hold this against him....itís like a baby learning to walk falls down at first. Do you hold that against him? No, it happens. Well, I think this also applies here....learning to take snaps under center is a skill that obviously can be learned.

As for the second fumble, yes, he could have avoided that and Iím sure he also will learn from this, but the guy did have a free pass at the qb with an OL whiff. The OL dude was the real culprit here. QBs will at times fumble when blind sided.
So basing final judgement of right or wrong  
micky : 8/17/2019 10:16 am : link
after 2 "preseason games" is critera?

Ok
RE: So basing final judgement of right or wrong  
5BowlsSoon : 8/17/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14533700 micky said:
Quote:
after 2 "preseason games" is critera?

Ok


Did you not watch his college film? And donít forget, he played on a team where no one else was drafted.

Do you need more? What are your eyes telling you? Do you think all of a sudden he will be inaccurate?
I never said he sucked  
idiotsavant : 8/17/2019 10:20 am : link
Just was obsessed on that pass rushing DT to pair w Lawrence

Mara proved himself here, this was his call and a good one.
I actually don't think it's too early for proclamations re:pick value  
Eric on Li : 8/17/2019 10:35 am : link
Jones has shown he has first round tools. Period. We knew the off the field personality was going to be a fit, and now we are seeing that a lot of the knocks against him were hyperbole. His "lack of arm talent" and "upside" was actually an inability of talking heads on TV to look beyond mediocre stats even though he had receivers dropping deep balls twice a week.

That said still a very long way to go before we know if he's a starting QB. Plenty of highly drafted QBs take 30-40 games of play to determine whether or not they are starters, and in some of those cases it's still not clear - Tannehill, Jake Locker, Mariota, Winston, Bortles, Derek Carr, Jimmy G. etc. QB's bust at the highest rate of any position and are the hardest thing to find so there's still plenty of risk in projecting Jones' future. I don't think it's a stretch though to say his talent was worthy of being a high draft pick and he has the ability to be a high level QB if he continues to develop.
RE: Heís looked good  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/17/2019 11:18 am : link
In comment 14533551 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Encouraging to see. But it is vanilla defense played by backups. This is a far cry from Philly or Dallas. We do know this, I hope.

If a D ran a complex cover 0-1 blitz against DJ8, he's likely to run it to the house for 80 yards.
DG is just what this team needed, no nonsense, bottom  
gtt350 : 8/17/2019 11:23 am : link
lined oriented
Its about results  
upnyg : 8/17/2019 1:18 pm : link
Its hard not to get hung up on personalities whether in sports, entertainment or politics. However, most of us would agree that its about wins!
How do you...  
Brown_Hornet : 8/17/2019 1:42 pm : link
...hate the GM this early?

He's doing a great job.
How could anyone possibly know enough about him to hate him?
RE: How do you...  
eli4life : 8/17/2019 1:53 pm : link
In comment 14534010 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...hate the GM this early?

He's doing a great job.
How could anyone possibly know enough about him to hate him?


Because some people are morons
I'd  
crick n NC : 8/17/2019 1:55 pm : link
Say if you find yourself hating another individual in something that is meant to be entertainment then perhaps you're taking it too far.

If you don't literally hate the person, then why use that word?
The Gettleman hate by many...  
EricJ : 8/17/2019 2:12 pm : link
is likely due to his delivery and demeanor. If you are the type who does not like when people are direct with you (and you prefer to have the message softened because you cannot handle it), then you probably do not like DG.

As far as what he has done with the team, time will tell for sure. That being said, you need to step back from looking at specific roster decisions and look at it all collectively.

From my perspective, this team has more overall talent at more positions now, we are able to compete against our opponent at more positions, and there is obviously more team unity and a better locker room so far.

So, the ship is moving in the right direction. Remember, there are a lot of good GMs in the league but only two of them get to the Superbowl each year.

Gettleman is doing the right thing by dumping bad contracts, getting rid of players who are not on board, and building from the line of scrimmage out.
Not a big fan of  
Jay in Toronto : 8/17/2019 2:27 pm : link
His arrogance.

But i was impressed given his (correct) emphasis on the lines, his commitment to spending draft capital on DBs.
Another solid showing for Jones which is very nice to see.  
Jimmy Googs : 8/17/2019 2:56 pm : link
Haven't seen the whole game yet but was the first team O-line in the game on Jones' 2 fumbles or the backups?

RE: The Gettleman hate by many...  
Jay on the Island : 8/17/2019 3:10 pm : link
In comment 14534045 EricJ said:
Quote:
is likely due to his delivery and demeanor. If you are the type who does not like when people are direct with you (and you prefer to have the message softened because you cannot handle it), then you probably do not like DG.

As far as what he has done with the team, time will tell for sure. That being said, you need to step back from looking at specific roster decisions and look at it all collectively.

From my perspective, this team has more overall talent at more positions now, we are able to compete against our opponent at more positions, and there is obviously more team unity and a better locker room so far.

So, the ship is moving in the right direction. Remember, there are a lot of good GMs in the league but only two of them get to the Superbowl each year.

Gettleman is doing the right thing by dumping bad contracts, getting rid of players who are not on board, and building from the line of scrimmage out.

Well said Eric. He's not a popular person due to his honest, brunt nature. There is also a negative perception of Gettleman due to his decision to move on from Steve Smith and Deangelo Williams, rescind the franchise tender on Josh Norman, and he also discussed moving on from fan favorites Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis due to contract demands.


ďThere are times where my bedside manner hasnít been the best. People will tell you that millennials want honesty,Ē Gettleman told Sports Illustrated. ďSometimes Iíve been a little too abrupt and to the point. And I think itís because Iíve never been a pussyfooter. Iíve never dallied around. Ö Maybe there has to be a softer, kinder Dave Gettleman. Yeah, Iím 68, but Iím not an old man falling down. Iíd like to think that I can learn, that Iím agile and can still learn.Ē
Link - ( New Window )
You honestly can't say that Gettleman's tenure here has been a failure  
Jay on the Island : 8/17/2019 3:17 pm : link
thus far. Sure he has made some mistakes mostly in FA but as EricJ said you have to look at his cumulative work when evaluating his performance.

I suggest taking the time to look back at the roster the year before Gettleman arrived and compare it to the current roster.
RE: Another solid showing for Jones which is very nice to see.  
Strahan91 : 8/17/2019 3:21 pm : link
In comment 14534123 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Haven't seen the whole game yet but was the first team O-line in the game on Jones' 2 fumbles or the backups?

Backups
Is it officially time  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/17/2019 4:55 pm : link
To don the black tracksuit and Nikes and drink the kool-aid to take a ride on the Daniel Jones comet?
RE: The Gettleman hate by many...  
mrvax : 8/17/2019 6:24 pm : link
In comment 14534045 EricJ said:
Quote:
Fixed:
So, the ship is moving in the right direction. Remember, there are a lot of good GMs in the league but only one two of them get to the Superbowl each year...
RE: Another solid showing for Jones which is very nice to see.  
McNally's_Nuts : 8/17/2019 7:56 pm : link
In comment 14534123 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Haven't seen the whole game yet but was the first team O-line in the game on Jones' 2 fumbles or the backups?



Dropped snap was with the starters, the sack/fumble was with the backups
RE: I LOVE what I'm seeing  
81_Great_Dane : 8/17/2019 10:07 pm : link
In comment 14533549 liteamorn said:
Quote:
I thought Josh Allen should have been the pick, I was wrong. I love his attitude and his play so far . Gettleman has us moving in the right direction.
This is me exactly. Was amazed Allen fell to the Giants. Facepalmed when Jones was announced. I was wrong. Jones may or may not turn out to be an elite QB, but I'm now more than satisfied he was the right pick at #6. He's a major prospect.
Yeah, I don't get the DG hate  
.McL. : 8/18/2019 4:32 am : link
The man is obnoxious, but who cares if he builds a winner.

So far he seems to have the team moving in the right direction. Jury is still out though. He's had a few bad moves, but far more good than bad.

The most important thing he has done is purge the roster. That definitely needed to be done. And in doing so, he has created uber cap space for next year.
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