I have always believed that a huge part of winning is the togetherness of unity of a team. It is not always about talent and if it was, then we may only have 1 Superbowl win.
I am seeing a transformation within the locker room. This is solely based upon the limited exposure we get as fans. I also recognize that these things are fragile and it can change later.
We heard about changing the culture on this team and I think it is starting to happen.
"So as he tries to rebuild the Giants into such a team, does he think there's a culture problem?
"Not anymore," Gettleman told NJ Advance Media's Steve Politi."
So do believe Gettleman or a random BBI poster?
I'll go with someone who has actually been in seven super bowl locker rooms over the past few decades and played a major part of the retention and selection of those players.
Gesh!
First -- there's a major difference between the GM saying he believes he's fixed a problem, and the OP who says he's seen "transformation in the locker room." That's where all this silliness started -- what evidence, in any way shape or form can someone outside point to regarding a "transformation."
Second -- and more importantly, let's see if this magic of culture starts contributing to some winning.
Christ this is tiresome. It looks and sounds like a completely different team to me. Dont agree? Thats fine.
"So as he tries to rebuild the Giants into such a team, does he think there's a culture problem?
"Not anymore," Gettleman told NJ Advance Media's Steve Politi."
So do believe Gettleman or a random BBI poster?
I'll go with someone who has actually been in seven super bowl locker rooms over the past few decades and played a major part of the retention and selection of those players.
Gesh!
That was such a ridiculous statement from him.
He brought in how many new people? And he 100% knows how they're all going to react in adversary? Give me a fucking break.
Christ this is tiresome. It looks and sounds like a completely different team to me. Dont agree? Thats fine.
What signs are there from the 2019 locker room that indicate a transformation?
You're answer above was basically you don't have any (not surprising given that you, ya know have literally zero idea what's going on in the locker room), but the press has been more positive.
I completely agree the press and players have been more positive. I agree virtually every player who's expressed displeasure with the team has been let go, and I agree Shurmur has a clean slate to prove he can coach a winning team.
What's laughable is someone saying there's been a "transformation" when the "culture" problem just got wrapped up a few weeks ago, and the team is 2 pre-season games in.
Before declaring a transformation, maybe see how this group does when faced with any actual issues, and whether they can win 6 games?
That's why it is often such circular argument here.
It is often too why the same posters are on that side of the argument.
The argument is only being made for the sake of it.
When the same crew argues that Gettlemen doesn't do something - like shopping around Beckham, they hold onto that argument. He didn't have a plan it was said - not because of any stronger evidence than the locker room situation.
Heck, the most damning is the argument that Gettleman shuns analytics. They hold onto that argument with very little evidence to support it. They cling to a throwaway joke made in a presser like it was absolute truth.
It would be a lot easier if these discussions came with the disclaimer that the same posters siding against Gettleman on most moves should just say:
Until proven otherwise over a few winning seasons, Gettleman will never convince me he's competent."
That's why it is often such circular argument here.
It is often too why the same posters are on that side of the argument.
Nothing circular for me champ -- my stance is pretty straight forward:
1) it takes way more than 2 weeks of pre-season to claim a "transformation" of the locker room and or culture. If even such a thing exists -- some time, adversity, and reacting well to the ups and downs of a season would be decent evidence before using such a broad term.
2) plenty of teams have won with dysfunctional locker rooms, players who act up, players who fight, and coaches and players who don't get along
3) a confident, well-prepared coach, stable management, and patient ownership are all good ways to combat the likely ups and downs in player behavior and actions, and being able to manage through those inevitabilities is paramount
Do you disagree?
Amigo, you're the one cursing and seemingly getting bothered. I'm definitely no dying on an hills. I just think it's hokey, esoteric, rhetoric.
It'd be as loopy as if I said "I see the writing walls of a bad locker room because there is a brewing QB controversy, the prized offensive free agent acquisition is suspended, and there's already been a player dismissed from the team for a domestic violence incident."
Now all of those things are true, right? But because, ya know, it's week 2 of the pre-season, it's hokey to make a broad claim, right?
The circular part comes when you have an OP talking about the locker room getting better and evidence is demanded, as if there aren't signs of better cohesion. Yet, threads can be made that Gettleman shuns analytics and no evidence is needed to be presented for the assumption that the board should just take the statement at face value.
This is a typical statement when it comes to some poster's views on Gettleman:
He brought in how many new people? And he 100% knows how they're all going to react in adversary? Give me a fucking break.
Yet when he says something like we can have a situation like the Kansas City or Green Bay plan, it is taken seriously and that we 100% expect to have Jones sit for eternity.
If he talks about pretzels and hot dogs, it means he stubbornly doesn't listen to any trade offers.
The quotes people choose to believe vs. the ones they choose to shit on are pretty telling.
And it leads to circular discussion
I mean that's the point right, to have winning seasons?
I'm not sure what you are tuning in to see, but I'm looking for wins. Thats exactly his job description, put together multiple winning seasons.
You can give him a participation trophy if you want, I'll wait for results. So far, he took a three win team and turned it into a 5 win team. Not exactly setting the world on fire.
Look at some of the threads on here about Gettleman. He literally gets zero credit for his body of work over a career by some here. Great lengths are gone through to show that his record in Carolina was really just because he inherited great players. His work with the cap there is not mentioned.
He can be the first GM to actually institute an analytics program for that franchise and a few posters go on and on saying just because you put something in place doesn't mean it's a positive.
It's just a clown show. With the same crew putting on clown shoes.
It isn't being a "realist" or even thinking "outside the box" when a person is given no credit by certain posters on every single scenario. It's just being willfully ignorant.
If Gettleman needs to prove to you he has to build a winning team, micro-analyzing every move by putting a negative slant on it really isn't doing a damn thing.
You know, what this is all about.
I don't even know what the rest of your post means. I'm only responsible for what I post. Christian is only responsible for his posts. Its sounds like you are using a bunch of different arguments from a bunch different posters to refute what what is a pretty simple argument: Namely: this team team (including the GM) hasn't proven anything YET.
Neither of us use Coach Red Ballou posts to refute things you write. Please don't take random posts from random posters and assign it to my arguments.
There are a mix of posters who see Gettleman doing no good, no wrong, and then a majority waiting to see.
I tend to think culture and locker room are an effect of coaching, management, and ultimately winning. I hope the current group has the skills to deal with bad apples and bad personalities, because it's inevitable.
And making a claim there's been a "transformation" when we're at pre-season week two isn't pro-Gettleman, it's anti-logic.
I agree with this 100%
Hitting on Jones will flip my view 100%. So far so good.
Fuck, I don't care if its Eli, Jones, Tanney, Lauletta Just give me winning football.
And thats the theme here. More guys like Eli/Barkley and less like Collins and Beckham. But you are right, Im just making up a hokey argument.
This is the poster child response as to what is wrong with debating anything on BBI.
Lord, you suck at it this and don't even see it...
Bar none...
Bar none...
More ironic than you calling yourself smarter than a HOF football player?
Cool! I have the t-shirt. I get lotsa haterz.
Quote:
is probably the #1 most ironic thing on BBI.
Bar none...
More ironic than you calling yourself smarter than a HOF football player?
No dip...the bat signal isn't calling your name.
Team looks like a TEAM. All supporting each other and communicating. Not a bunch of individuals.
Yes it's very early and maybe it's a by-product of winning but I want to see more of it.
Gettleman has been pretty decisive, and the team is chalk full of young, cost-controlled draft picks, and some good prime veteran talent. He's done a good job in rebuild mode.
The next steps are really on Shurmur -- can he get the young guys playing thoughtful, low mistake football, and also handle the personality challenges when they come up.
Obviously the last character who held the job could not.
Its Daniel Jones or bust for the fans that get it...
And as usual with a prerequisite, pithy throwaway line.
The long, long troll job that continues to be a stain on BBI.
And you probably think that reflects more on me than you.
Just another feather to put in an already full Hat of Cluelessness.
The first time Googs adds anything to the thread, it will be the first. Just be careful his protector doesnt read your replies to him FMiC. Hes has a god immunity cause going for him.
That's what Googs has been reduced to (or basically has always fucking been)
Yes, take the high road while calling posters fucksticks as you goosestep thru various threads...
But I definitely talk football.
And you definitely are a fuckstick and rarely discuss football.
Pointing that out isn't taking a high road. Now, when you can point to me calling people Nazi's and posting pictures of Nazi Germany come talk. Of course, it still won't be about football, but we already understand that isn't going to happen.
Nevertheless, Im sure this isnt news to you...
It doesn't surprise me that people with the dumbest takes generally can't string a sentence together.