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I like the changes in the locker room...

EricJ : 8/17/2019 2:25 pm
I have always believed that a huge part of winning is the togetherness of unity of a team. It is not always about talent and if it was, then we may only have 1 Superbowl win.

I am seeing a transformation within the locker room. This is solely based upon the limited exposure we get as fans. I also recognize that these things are fragile and it can change later.

We heard about changing the culture on this team and I think it is starting to happen.
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RE: If locker room culture is  
christian : 8/18/2019 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14535027 Daniel in Kentucky said:
Quote:
...then Gettleman must be a wizard.

"So as he tries to rebuild the Giants into such a team, does he think there's a culture problem?
"Not anymore," Gettleman told NJ Advance Media's Steve Politi."

So do believe Gettleman or a random BBI poster?
I'll go with someone who has actually been in seven super bowl locker rooms over the past few decades and played a major part of the retention and selection of those players.

Gesh!


First -- there's a major difference between the GM saying he believes he's fixed a problem, and the OP who says he's seen "transformation in the locker room." That's where all this silliness started -- what evidence, in any way shape or form can someone outside point to regarding a "transformation."

Second -- and more importantly, let's see if this magic of culture starts contributing to some winning.
You clearly donít believe it matters  
UConn4523 : 8/18/2019 3:13 pm : link
and thatís fine. Admit it and move on. Plenty of posters, myself included, see a difference. Weíve given examples. None of it is good enough for you. At what point do you stop replying to each post asking for video/photo evidence along with Ed taking notes?

Christ this is tiresome. It looks and sounds like a completely different team to me. Donít agree? Thatís fine.
RE: If locker room culture is  
ron mexico : 8/18/2019 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14535027 Daniel in Kentucky said:
Quote:
...then Gettleman must be a wizard.

"So as he tries to rebuild the Giants into such a team, does he think there's a culture problem?
"Not anymore," Gettleman told NJ Advance Media's Steve Politi."

So do believe Gettleman or a random BBI poster?
I'll go with someone who has actually been in seven super bowl locker rooms over the past few decades and played a major part of the retention and selection of those players.

Gesh!


That was such a ridiculous statement from him.

He brought in how many new people? And he 100% knows how they're all going to react in adversary? Give me a fucking break.

RE: You clearly donít believe it matters  
christian : 8/18/2019 3:15 pm : link
In comment 14535073 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and thatís fine. Admit it and move on. Plenty of posters, myself included, see a difference. Weíve given examples. None of it is good enough for you. At what point do you stop replying to each post asking for video/photo evidence along with Ed taking notes?

Christ this is tiresome. It looks and sounds like a completely different team to me. Donít agree? Thatís fine.


What signs are there from the 2019 locker room that indicate a transformation?
Iíve answered that already  
UConn4523 : 8/18/2019 3:16 pm : link
Iím also not trying to convince you, I donít care what you think.
RE: Iíve answered that already  
christian : 8/18/2019 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14535077 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
Iím also not trying to convince you, I donít care what you think.


You're answer above was basically you don't have any (not surprising given that you, ya know have literally zero idea what's going on in the locker room), but the press has been more positive.

I completely agree the press and players have been more positive. I agree virtually every player who's expressed displeasure with the team has been let go, and I agree Shurmur has a clean slate to prove he can coach a winning team.

What's laughable is someone saying there's been a "transformation" when the "culture" problem just got wrapped up a few weeks ago, and the team is 2 pre-season games in.

Before declaring a transformation, maybe see how this group does when faced with any actual issues, and whether they can win 6 games?
It's got to..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/18/2019 3:30 pm : link
be really ponderous to be a contrarian. They often demand evidence to support the majority opinion but rarely use any to support the minority opinion that they dig into.

That's why it is often such circular argument here.

It is often too why the same posters are on that side of the argument.

Christian  
UConn4523 : 8/18/2019 3:36 pm : link
I just fucking posted my feelings on it. Iím not reposting, you can go back and read it. Iím not in the locker room, Iíve said repeatedly that this team looks and sounds different. Everything from top to bottom. If you think itís no different than any other offseason, so be it. Not sure why you are dying on this hill.
UConn..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/18/2019 3:58 pm : link
it doesn't matter.

The argument is only being made for the sake of it.

When the same crew argues that Gettlemen doesn't do something - like shopping around Beckham, they hold onto that argument. He didn't have a plan it was said - not because of any stronger evidence than the locker room situation.

Heck, the most damning is the argument that Gettleman shuns analytics. They hold onto that argument with very little evidence to support it. They cling to a throwaway joke made in a presser like it was absolute truth.

It would be a lot easier if these discussions came with the disclaimer that the same posters siding against Gettleman on most moves should just say:

Until proven otherwise over a few winning seasons, Gettleman will never convince me he's competent."
...  
BrettNYG10 : 8/18/2019 3:58 pm : link
I've criticized DG heavily, but if DJ is the goods, he'll win me over big time.
RE: It's got to..  
christian : 8/18/2019 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14535088 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
be really ponderous to be a contrarian. They often demand evidence to support the majority opinion but rarely use any to support the minority opinion that they dig into.

That's why it is often such circular argument here.

It is often too why the same posters are on that side of the argument.


Nothing circular for me champ -- my stance is pretty straight forward:

1) it takes way more than 2 weeks of pre-season to claim a "transformation" of the locker room and or culture. If even such a thing exists -- some time, adversity, and reacting well to the ups and downs of a season would be decent evidence before using such a broad term.

2) plenty of teams have won with dysfunctional locker rooms, players who act up, players who fight, and coaches and players who don't get along

3) a confident, well-prepared coach, stable management, and patient ownership are all good ways to combat the likely ups and downs in player behavior and actions, and being able to manage through those inevitabilities is paramount

Do you disagree?
RE: Christian  
christian : 8/18/2019 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14535096 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I just fucking posted my feelings on it. Iím not reposting, you can go back and read it. Iím not in the locker room, Iíve said repeatedly that this team looks and sounds different. Everything from top to bottom. If you think itís no different than any other offseason, so be it. Not sure why you are dying on this hill.


Amigo, you're the one cursing and seemingly getting bothered. I'm definitely no dying on an hills. I just think it's hokey, esoteric, rhetoric.

It'd be as loopy as if I said "I see the writing walls of a bad locker room because there is a brewing QB controversy, the prized offensive free agent acquisition is suspended, and there's already been a player dismissed from the team for a domestic violence incident."

Now all of those things are true, right? But because, ya know, it's week 2 of the pre-season, it's hokey to make a broad claim, right?
The circular..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/18/2019 4:13 pm : link
argument happens on anything regarding Gettleman:

Quote:
Nothing circular for me champ -- my stance is pretty straight forward:


The circular part comes when you have an OP talking about the locker room getting better and evidence is demanded, as if there aren't signs of better cohesion. Yet, threads can be made that Gettleman shuns analytics and no evidence is needed to be presented for the assumption that the board should just take the statement at face value.

This is a typical statement when it comes to some poster's views on Gettleman:

Quote:
That was such a ridiculous statement from him.

He brought in how many new people? And he 100% knows how they're all going to react in adversary? Give me a fucking break.


Yet when he says something like we can have a situation like the Kansas City or Green Bay plan, it is taken seriously and that we 100% expect to have Jones sit for eternity.

If he talks about pretzels and hot dogs, it means he stubbornly doesn't listen to any trade offers.

The quotes people choose to believe vs. the ones they choose to shit on are pretty telling.

And it leads to circular discussion
Sure, assume this for all my statements  
ron mexico : 8/18/2019 4:21 pm : link
"Until proven otherwise over a few winning seasons, Gettleman will never convince me he's competent."

I mean that's the point right, to have winning seasons?

I'm not sure what you are tuning in to see, but I'm looking for wins. Thats exactly his job description, put together multiple winning seasons.

You can give him a participation trophy if you want, I'll wait for results. So far, he took a three win team and turned it into a 5 win team. Not exactly setting the world on fire.






I'm tuning..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/18/2019 4:27 pm : link
it to not see a guy get shit on for everything, just because for some warped reason you hold him accountable for years of poor play.

Look at some of the threads on here about Gettleman. He literally gets zero credit for his body of work over a career by some here. Great lengths are gone through to show that his record in Carolina was really just because he inherited great players. His work with the cap there is not mentioned.

He can be the first GM to actually institute an analytics program for that franchise and a few posters go on and on saying just because you put something in place doesn't mean it's a positive.

It's just a clown show. With the same crew putting on clown shoes.

It isn't being a "realist" or even thinking "outside the box" when a person is given no credit by certain posters on every single scenario. It's just being willfully ignorant.

If Gettleman needs to prove to you he has to build a winning team, micro-analyzing every move by putting a negative slant on it really isn't doing a damn thing.
When I say tuning in  
ron mexico : 8/18/2019 4:36 pm : link
I mean tuning in to actual NFL games, not threads on here.
You know, what this is all about.

I don't even know what the rest of your post means. I'm only responsible for what I post. Christian is only responsible for his posts. Its sounds like you are using a bunch of different arguments from a bunch different posters to refute what what is a pretty simple argument: Namely: this team team (including the GM) hasn't proven anything YET.

Neither of us use Coach Red Ballou posts to refute things you write. Please don't take random posts from random posters and assign it to my arguments.



...  
christian : 8/18/2019 4:44 pm : link
It seems like you are projecting your feelings from the dude you argue about analytics with on this thread, and it doesn't really seem to apply.

There are a mix of posters who see Gettleman doing no good, no wrong, and then a majority waiting to see.

I tend to think culture and locker room are an effect of coaching, management, and ultimately winning. I hope the current group has the skills to deal with bad apples and bad personalities, because it's inevitable.

And making a claim there's been a "transformation" when we're at pre-season week two isn't pro-Gettleman, it's anti-logic.
RE: ...  
ron mexico : 8/18/2019 5:00 pm : link
In comment 14535119 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I've criticized DG heavily, but if DJ is the goods, he'll win me over big time.


I agree with this 100%

Hitting on Jones will flip my view 100%. So far so good.

Fuck, I don't care if its Eli, Jones, Tanney, Lauletta Just give me winning football.

Christian  
UConn4523 : 8/18/2019 5:23 pm : link
the QB controversy, in your hypothetical, is being handled by a 15 year vet and all time pros pro, and a rookie from what looks to be cut from the same cloth. So no, I wouldnít buy that hypothetical at all. We made sure to get a QB with the same character that we get from Eli. Good try though (not really, that was a poor effort).

And thatís the theme here. More guys like Eli/Barkley and less like Collins and Beckham. But you are right, Iím just making up a hokey argument.
...  
christian : 8/18/2019 5:36 pm : link
But you'd admit that because neither scenario has actually occured yet, neither are guaranteed nor evidence of a current "transformation," yes?
RE: It's got to..  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 6:50 pm : link
In comment 14535088 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
be really ponderous to be a contrarian. They often demand evidence to support the majority opinion but rarely use any to support the minority opinion that they dig into.



This is the poster child response as to what is wrong with debating anything on BBI.

Lord, you suck at it this and don't even see it...
And typing the word "ponderous" in your posts  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 6:56 pm : link
is probably the #1 most ironic thing on BBI.

Bar none...
RE: And typing the word  
dep026 : 8/18/2019 7:13 pm : link
In comment 14535270 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
is probably the #1 most ironic thing on BBI.

Bar none...


More ironic than you calling yourself smarter than a HOF football player?
This thread needs this  
crick n NC : 8/18/2019 7:18 pm : link
...  
christian : 8/18/2019 7:26 pm : link
Crick, coincidentally that poster now hangs prominently in the Giants new and transformed locker room as a sign of happiness to come.
RE: ...  
crick n NC : 8/18/2019 7:28 pm : link
In comment 14535281 christian said:
Quote:
Crick, coincidentally that poster now hangs prominently in the Giants new and transformed locker room as a sign of happiness to come.


Cool! I have the t-shirt. I get lotsa haterz.
...  
christian : 8/18/2019 7:32 pm : link
Now if the Giants break .500 -- that might end up FmIC and me.
That would warm my  
crick n NC : 8/18/2019 7:35 pm : link


DG  
Giant John : 8/18/2019 7:36 pm : link
Has brought new talent to the team. That talents needs to mature a bit but the progress is more than evident. DG has checked all the blocks to date. Enjoy this guys. We are going to show some teams playing the Giants isnít an off day on the schedule. Itís going to be fun. Credit goes to our GM for what heís done so far.
RE: RE: And typing the word  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14535275 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14535270 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


is probably the #1 most ironic thing on BBI.

Bar none...



More ironic than you calling yourself smarter than a HOF football player?


No dip...the bat signal isn't calling your name.
Agree with what you're seeing EricJ  
BigBlue in Keys : 8/18/2019 7:44 pm : link
Texted a similar thought to a friend after the game:
Team looks like a TEAM. All supporting each other and communicating. Not a bunch of individuals.

Yes it's very early and maybe it's a by-product of winning but I want to see more of it.
RE: DG  
christian : 8/18/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14535288 Giant John said:
Quote:
Has brought new talent to the team. That talents needs to mature a bit but the progress is more than evident. DG has checked all the blocks to date. Enjoy this guys. We are going to show some teams playing the Giants isnít an off day on the schedule. Itís going to be fun. Credit goes to our GM for what heís done so far.


Gettleman has been pretty decisive, and the team is chalk full of young, cost-controlled draft picks, and some good prime veteran talent. He's done a good job in rebuild mode.

The next steps are really on Shurmur -- can he get the young guys playing thoughtful, low mistake football, and also handle the personality challenges when they come up.

Obviously the last character who held the job could not.
DG has been very decisive. Lots of good moves speckled  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 8:10 pm : link
between some questionable ones which is a fair assessment for a team not yet showing anything yet on the board. Lets put up a better looking 2019 and see what happens.

Its Daniel Jones or bust for the fans that get it...
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/18/2019 8:44 pm : link
the irony is Googs talking about a fucking bat signal as he rushes to support the contrarian movement and joins the discussion just to add nothing.

And as usual with a prerequisite, pithy throwaway line.

The long, long troll job that continues to be a stain on BBI.
The stain on BBI is moreso you bullying posters with your tiresome  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 9:51 pm : link
antics and ponderous criticisms. Your posts are akin to watching the History Channel and picturing you in 1940 goosestepping down the streets of Berlin...


This team was in a state of rot in 2017  
Sneakers O'toole : 8/18/2019 9:55 pm : link
The reclamation project is ongoing.
There's yet..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/18/2019 9:56 pm : link
another parallel to Nazi Germany.

And you probably think that reflects more on me than you.

Just another feather to put in an already full Hat of Cluelessness.
Yeah I probably do  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 10:06 pm : link
...
Googs adds nothing to the discussion?  
dep026 : 8/18/2019 10:13 pm : link
Surely you jest. I mean how many people can tell former they are players that they are wrong from watching the game in the stands, drunk, and listening to the other experts fromnsection 202?

The first time Googs adds anything to the thread, it will be the first. Just be careful his protector doesnít read your replies to him FMiC. Heís has a god immunity cause going for him.
And by the way  
dep026 : 8/18/2019 10:13 pm : link
Itís dep.
You know the argument is in a stable place when Nazi Germany  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/18/2019 10:14 pm : link
enters the conversation.
Hey..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/18/2019 10:17 pm : link
when you can't add anything of substance, just insinuate someone is a Nazi.

That's what Googs has been reduced to (or basically has always fucking been)
Just once it would be cool for people to disagree  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/18/2019 10:21 pm : link
with each other and not go completely unhinged.
Whoa... I wondered how that took so long  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 10:23 pm : link
We really needed your repetitive colorful remarks which you spout off only have to do with football
The question I always wandered  
dep026 : 8/18/2019 10:27 pm : link
Is if he talks in the third person like another infamous Jimmy.
That..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/18/2019 10:27 pm : link
probably makes sense in some language....
RE: Hey..  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 10:29 pm : link
In comment 14535417 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
when you can't add anything of substance, just insinuate someone is a Nazi.



Yes, take the high road while calling posters fucksticks as you goosestep thru various threads...
I'm not..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/18/2019 10:32 pm : link
taking the high road.

But I definitely talk football.

And you definitely are a fuckstick and rarely discuss football.

Pointing that out isn't taking a high road. Now, when you can point to me calling people Nazi's and posting pictures of Nazi Germany come talk. Of course, it still won't be about football, but we already understand that isn't going to happen.
We have gone thru this before. Your football posts are fine.  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 10:46 pm : link
Its when you stray and you go into your degrading evil self and become the ponderous lol fukstick-calling chucklehead that we go head-to-head.

Nevertheless, Iím sure this isnít news to you...
RE: That..  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/18/2019 11:53 pm : link
In comment 14535426 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
probably makes sense in some language....


It doesn't surprise me that people with the dumbest takes generally can't string a sentence together.
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