I have always believed that a huge part of winning is the togetherness of unity of a team. It is not always about talent and if it was, then we may only have 1 Superbowl win.
I am seeing a transformation within the locker room. This is solely based upon the limited exposure we get as fans. I also recognize that these things are fragile and it can change later.
We heard about changing the culture on this team and I think it is starting to happen.
PS and staff appear to have them quite organized. We shall see how that translates into the regular season.
Depth is another overlooked part of building a team. Some of the signings go unnoticed but when you have a huge liability at any position when your starter goes down, it can disrupt everything.
It didn't seem like the locker room was a problem last year.
PS and staff appear to have them quite organized. We shall see how that translates into the regular season.
On offense. Defense still looks raw from that standpoint. Very Raw. It just isn't apparent to the average fan from a "crispness" standpoint.
It didn't seem like the locker room was a problem last year.
Gettleman got rid of all of the losers — Beckham, Vernon, Snacks, Apple, Collins, etc.
These guys were talented but they weren’t winners. Anyone who has played team sports understands the dynamic.
I guess Archie Manning and a dozen other all time greats who didn't win are losers too.
We've got to be able to do better at thinking about football than this.
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We heard about changing the culture on this team and I think it is starting to happen.
Good words Robbie. I will be honest with you, I didn’t want us to win those last 4 games because I was not wanting to pick out of the top 10 in the draft. But now I see things differently....winning the last 4 of 8 and almost winning 2 more actually was a building process that is now carried over to this year and hopefully beyond.
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Genuinely interested to understand what the evidence of this changed locker room is.
It didn't seem like the locker room was a problem last year.
Gettleman got rid of all of the losers — Beckham, Vernon, Snacks, Apple, Collins, etc.
These guys were talented but they weren’t winners. Anyone who has played team sports understands the dynamic.
I remember nearly identical sentiment regarding the 2003 Giants, and how guys like Strahan, Toomer, Shockey, Barber, etc. were losers and would never win anything.
And then a bunch of the guys who weren't winners were, and a bunch of those guys were eventually champions.
And just to make matters more awesome the Giants added Burress, Bradshaw, Boley, and Rolle and those loser assholes also became champions.
Was Burress a winner we he told his head coach to f-ck off on the sideline, and when he refused to practice? Was Strahan a winner when we threatened to retire so he could skip training camp? How about when Boley beat up his wife. Or when Amani Toomer pissed in his wife's closet. Or when Bradshaw got arrested for stealing a PlayStation in college. Or when Rolle nearly got kicked out of college for going at a cop?
But more importantly, what was actually, demonstrably wrong with the locker room last year?
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Genuinely interested to understand what the evidence of this changed locker room is.
It didn't seem like the locker room was a problem last year.
Gettleman got rid of all of the losers — Beckham, Vernon, Snacks, Apple, Collins, etc.
These guys were talented but they weren’t winners. Anyone who has played team sports understands the dynamic.
Exactly
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In comment 14534264 christian said:
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Genuinely interested to understand what the evidence of this changed locker room is.
It didn't seem like the locker room was a problem last year.
Gettleman got rid of all of the losers — Beckham, Vernon, Snacks, Apple, Collins, etc.
These guys were talented but they weren’t winners. Anyone who has played team sports understands the dynamic.
I remember nearly identical sentiment regarding the 2003 Giants, and how guys like Strahan, Toomer, Shockey, Barber, etc. were losers and would never win anything.
And then a bunch of the guys who weren't winners were, and a bunch of those guys were eventually champions.
And just to make matters more awesome the Giants added Burress, Bradshaw, Boley, and Rolle and those loser assholes also became champions.
Was Burress a winner we he told his head coach to f-ck off on the sideline, and when he refused to practice? Was Strahan a winner when we threatened to retire so he could skip training camp? How about when Boley beat up his wife. Or when Amani Toomer pissed in his wife's closet. Or when Bradshaw got arrested for stealing a PlayStation in college. Or when Rolle nearly got kicked out of college for going at a cop?
But more importantly, what was actually, demonstrably wrong with the locker room last year?
Team dynamic and character issues off the field are two different things
But it does seem like players and management have often noted an improved “culture” or tenor of the team this year.
Team dynamic and character issues off the field are two different things
OK assuming that, what were the bad dynamics on the team last year? What is the evidence of that?
I thought the team played hard for Shurmur, didn't quit, etc. The guys who didn't return just were not part of that?
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Team dynamic and character issues off the field are two different things
OK assuming that, what were the bad dynamics on the team last year? What is the evidence of that?
I thought the team played hard for Shurmur, didn't quit, etc. The guys who didn't return just were not part of that?
Exactly. You just don’t know what you’re talking about.
The group Gettleman got rid of had one playoff season on their resume. They were the core when the team essentially mutinied on McAdoo. The same core who started 1-7 last year. No surprise the team started playing better and winning once those guys were either jettisoned or injured.
It’s not all about talent. There’s a chemistry and attitude element to success and they don’t have it.
I think this was all starting to build last year. perhaps because the leadership was so bad in 2017 and the team was a complete mess from every point, but I like what I'm seeing so far.
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In comment 14534402 joeinpa said:
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Team dynamic and character issues off the field are two different things
OK assuming that, what were the bad dynamics on the team last year? What is the evidence of that?
I thought the team played hard for Shurmur, didn't quit, etc. The guys who didn't return just were not part of that?
Exactly. You just don’t know what you’re talking about.
The group Gettleman got rid of had one playoff season on their resume. They were the core when the team essentially mutinied on McAdoo. The same core who started 1-7 last year. No surprise the team started playing better and winning once those guys were either jettisoned or injured.
It’s not all about talent. There’s a chemistry and attitude element to success and they don’t have it.
I don’t know what was wrong in the locker room. I was more agreeing with the statement anyone who has played team sports understands team dynamics
Here's hoping many of the young guys develop the same issues the group of jerks and malcontents under Coughlin did, and actually win something.
And even more importantly Shurmur has the agency to coach a team with some jerks, and doesn't need to get rid of anyone who's not well behaved, because that's a heck of a way to assemble a football team.
Here's hoping many of the young guys develop the same issues the group of jerks and malcontents under Coughlin did, and actually win something.
And even more importantly Shurmur has the agency to coach a team with some jerks, and doesn't need to get rid of anyone who's not well behaved, because that's a heck of a way to assemble a football team.
What do you keep babbling on about? The core of this team wasn’t getting it done, period. Gettleman gave them a clean slate last year and they responded with a fuck you 1-7 start. So he cleaned house.
You keep bringing up the Coughlin Giants so let’s explore that. They had the same issues, albeit they were a more talented roster. That team didn’t turn the corner until some of the Fassel holdovers were out of the picture and the rest were able to find common ground with Coughlin. The Giants winning a SB after Tiki retires and Shockey goes down mid season is a perfect example of what I’m talking about.
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Lol OK. So because the team is young the locker room is "fixed."
Here's hoping many of the young guys develop the same issues the group of jerks and malcontents under Coughlin did, and actually win something.
And even more importantly Shurmur has the agency to coach a team with some jerks, and doesn't need to get rid of anyone who's not well behaved, because that's a heck of a way to assemble a football team.
What do you keep babbling on about? The core of this team wasn’t getting it done, period. Gettleman gave them a clean slate last year and they responded with a fuck you 1-7 start. So he cleaned house.
You keep bringing up the Coughlin Giants so let’s explore that. They had the same issues, albeit they were a more talented roster. That team didn’t turn the corner until some of the Fassel holdovers were out of the picture and the rest were able to find common ground with Coughlin. The Giants winning a SB after Tiki retires and Shockey goes down mid season is a perfect example of what I’m talking about.
And yet a number of the Fassel hold overs were key cogs in the championship in 2007. The point is you can't cut your way to a good team.
The key is competent coaching, confident management, and ownership that stays out of football decisions.
Strong leadership can handle all kinds of characters, assholes, former losers, and idiots. You must be able to coach and lead all kinds.
Plenty of good teams have had dysfunctional locker rooms, players who hate each other, players who hate the coaches and vice versa, who get at each other, who do stupid shit. It doesn't need to be the magical fairy dust of a "good locker room" to win.
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In comment 14534449 christian said:
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Lol OK. So because the team is young the locker room is "fixed."
Here's hoping many of the young guys develop the same issues the group of jerks and malcontents under Coughlin did, and actually win something.
And even more importantly Shurmur has the agency to coach a team with some jerks, and doesn't need to get rid of anyone who's not well behaved, because that's a heck of a way to assemble a football team.
What do you keep babbling on about? The core of this team wasn’t getting it done, period. Gettleman gave them a clean slate last year and they responded with a fuck you 1-7 start. So he cleaned house.
You keep bringing up the Coughlin Giants so let’s explore that. They had the same issues, albeit they were a more talented roster. That team didn’t turn the corner until some of the Fassel holdovers were out of the picture and the rest were able to find common ground with Coughlin. The Giants winning a SB after Tiki retires and Shockey goes down mid season is a perfect example of what I’m talking about.
And yet a number of the Fassel hold overs were key cogs in the championship in 2007. The point is you can't cut your way to a good team.
The key is competent coaching, confident management, and ownership that stays out of football decisions.
Strong leadership can handle all kinds of characters, assholes, former losers, and idiots. You must be able to coach and lead all kinds.
Plenty of good teams have had dysfunctional locker rooms, players who hate each other, players who hate the coaches and vice versa, who get at each other, who do stupid shit. It doesn't need to be the magical fairy dust of a "good locker room" to win.
It’s not “magical fairy dust.” Just because PFF or some other donk stat site can’t quantify it doesn’t mean it’s not real.
Let’s look at the Shockey example. The 07 team was treading water and Shockey was pretty vocal about Eli and the HC. He goes down with an injury, Eli doesn’t have to force feed targets to him, the Giants get on a roll and the rest is history. In the off-season Shockey is shipped to New Orleans for a draft pick.
Team chemistry is real and it matters. It has nothing to do with the rap sheet or history of any individual player. It’s about how the collection of players come together to work towards a common goal.
+1. They may or may not have improved the locker room, but there's absolutely no way of telling at this point.
Oh, and the saints managed to win a SB with him in their locker room.
Oh, and the saints managed to win a SB with him in their locker room.
Yes because Brees made it clear who was the leader in that locker room. He wouldn’t tolerate Shockley s shenanigans
Think he s just making the pt that we as fans create many narratives and then create opinion as fact to support that narrative
He just didn’t express it very nicely. By the way I think he s correct in his assessment, me included.
I don’t have any “proof” the locker room is better but it sure as hell looks like it is. Just think about what reporters are reporting back on and what sound bytes are coming out. Complete 180 from last year. No Beckham crap, no Apple crap, no Collins mouth running, no Flowers garbage. The focus seems to be Jones’ progress in camp, guys like Shepard stepping up to lead the locker room, Ballentine looking like a pro, etc.
Far less negativity surrounds this team right now. If that isn’t in part due to an improved culture/locker room then I don’t know what to tell you.
I don’t have any “proof” the locker room is better but it sure as hell looks like it is. Just think about what reporters are reporting back on and what sound bytes are coming out. Complete 180 from last year. No Beckham crap, no Apple crap, no Collins mouth running, no Flowers garbage. The focus seems to be Jones’ progress in camp, guys like Shepard stepping up to lead the locker room, Ballentine looking like a pro, etc.
Far less negativity surrounds this team right now. If that isn’t in part due to an improved culture/locker room then I don’t know what to tell you.
What negative things were being reported last preseason ?
Pretty easy to have character until the live bullets start flying
Whatever changes are needed , happened or didn't happen, I will measure them in wins.
Pre-season, doesn't count. But actually it does. Winning is contagious just as losing is. Win often, get leads and play smart, hard team oriented physical football.
I really hope, and I think there's a punching chance this team can play .500 or better ball.
That is what success looks like. Build on last year. Win.
Those guys were jettisoned one-by-one. A few played last year and cohesion was better than in 2017, but you still had Beckham and IV-Gate and Flowers smirking on the sidelines while guzzling down sunflower seeds. Last year was a year to put in place a new system and get the locker room in order and while it is early, 2019 looks like the year where it is now stabilized.
If you need evidence on what issues there were in the locker room in 2018, then you should just go back to 2017 and see what a shitshow it was and how many of those "leaders" were still here.
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DG got rid of players who either A. Severely under performed B. we’re severely over paid C. We’re causing too many issues or D any combo of these issues.
I don’t have any “proof” the locker room is better but it sure as hell looks like it is. Just think about what reporters are reporting back on and what sound bytes are coming out. Complete 180 from last year. No Beckham crap, no Apple crap, no Collins mouth running, no Flowers garbage. The focus seems to be Jones’ progress in camp, guys like Shepard stepping up to lead the locker room, Ballentine looking like a pro, etc.
Far less negativity surrounds this team right now. If that isn’t in part due to an improved culture/locker room then I don’t know what to tell you.
What negative things were being reported last preseason ?
Pretty easy to have character until the live bullets start flying
None of that stuff was in the preseason.
Everything was roses till we started playing games that counted.
IMO the team attitude and culture is pointing up. Winning will heal all but I feel a lot better about who’s leading this locker room heading into 2019 than I have in years.
Then miffs on the onside kick and benches himself with an injury
Apple is a quitter as well as a cry baby
Snacks declared “I’m not a leader!”
Collins went to the papers about teammates in the locker room
Flowers and Jerry no explanation needed - wouldn’t workout with line
Vernon I have nothing bad to say - probably wanted to unload his huge contract
How can some here not see that most of these guys were not team players
They were me me me me
Then miffs on the onside kick and benches himself with an injury
Apple is a quitter as well as a cry baby
Snacks declared “I’m not a leader!”
Collins went to the papers about teammates in the locker room
Flowers and Jerry no explanation needed - wouldn’t workout with line
Vernon I have nothing bad to say - probably wanted to unload his huge contract
How can some here not see that most of these guys were not team players
They were me me me me
Vernon disrespected the American flag.
Don't forget jpp, he's a hot mess.