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NFT: Mets at Royals Game 2. deGrom

ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 4:49 pm
Mets Lineup

Amed Rosario DH
Joe Panik 2B
Pete Alonso 1B
Michael Conforto RF
Wilson Ramos C
Todd Frazier 3B
Luis Guillorme SS
Juan Lagares CF
Aaron Altherr LF

Royals Lineup

Whit Merrifield 2B
Alex Gordon LF
Hunter Dozier RF
Jorge Soler DH
Cheslor Cuthbert 3B
Brett Phillips CF
Ryan O’Hearn 1B
Meibrys Viloria C
Nicky Lopez SS

Mets have to battle back tonight with deGrom on the mound. The lineup keeps getting uglier with now Davis out with a calf injury. Lockett is in Kansas City in case Davis or Gsellman get placed on the IL. Take 2 of 3 on the road here and all is still good but this is getting pretty ugly. LFGM!
This is sickening...  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 4:52 pm : link
The all injured Mets lineup would be incredible!

1.) Nimmo CF
2.) McNeil 3B
3.) Cespedes RF
4.) Davis LF
5.) Smith 1B
6.) Cano 2B
7.) Lowrie SS
8.) Mesaraco C
RE: This is sickening...  
dep026 : 8/17/2019 4:53 pm : link
In comment 14534263 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
The all injured Mets lineup would be incredible!

1.) Nimmo CF
2.) McNeil 3B
3.) Cespedes RF
4.) Davis LF
5.) Smith 1B
6.) Cano 2B
7.) Lowrie SS
8.) Mesaraco C


Conforto?
RE: RE: This is sickening...  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 4:54 pm : link
In comment 14534267 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14534263 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


The all injured Mets lineup would be incredible!

1.) Nimmo CF
2.) McNeil 3B
3.) Cespedes RF
4.) Davis LF
5.) Smith 1B
6.) Cano 2B
7.) Lowrie SS
8.) Mesaraco C



Conforto?


Conforto is playing?
Oh my fault...  
dep026 : 8/17/2019 4:54 pm : link
I thought it was your best lineup with everyone playing.
Cause I think Alonso  
dep026 : 8/17/2019 4:55 pm : link
Would be there too haha
Gsellman is officially on the IL  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 4:55 pm : link
Lockett activated. Right triceps injury for Gsellman.
RE: This is sickening...  
pjcas18 : 8/17/2019 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14534263 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
The all injured Mets lineup would be incredible!

1.) Nimmo CF
2.) McNeil 3B
3.) Cespedes RF
4.) Davis LF
5.) Smith 1B
6.) Cano 2B
7.) Lowrie SS
8.) Mesaraco C


Mesaraco? Didn't he ask for his release after getting cut/ sent to the minors?

RE: Cause I think Alonso  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 4:56 pm : link
In comment 14534270 dep026 said:
Quote:
Would be there too haha


Yes. And Rosario. Still sickening that we can field an entire lineup of guys on the IR or that are currently injured. And it looks MUCH better than any actual lineup we fielded this year. lol
RE: RE: This is sickening...  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 4:58 pm : link
In comment 14534274 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14534263 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


The all injured Mets lineup would be incredible!

1.) Nimmo CF
2.) McNeil 3B
3.) Cespedes RF
4.) Davis LF
5.) Smith 1B
6.) Cano 2B
7.) Lowrie SS
8.) Mesaraco C



Mesaraco? Didn't he ask for his release after getting cut/ sent to the minors?


Yes. And we declined. So he is currently on the IL. Obviously, thats the only player I reached on a little to make the lineup work.
Davis available to pinch hit per Mickey  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 5:19 pm : link
So I guess the calf isn't too bad.
RE: RE: RE: This is sickening...  
gmenatlarge : 8/17/2019 5:24 pm : link
In comment 14534277 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14534274 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14534263 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


The all injured Mets lineup would be incredible!

1.) Nimmo CF
2.) McNeil 3B
3.) Cespedes RF
4.) Davis LF
5.) Smith 1B
6.) Cano 2B
7.) Lowrie SS
8.) Mesaraco C



Mesaraco? Didn't he ask for his release after getting cut/ sent to the minors?




Yes. And we declined. So he is currently on the IL. Obviously, thats the only player I reached on a little to make the lineup work.


Maybe Diaz should join them on the IL with an “injury”
I wouldnt be opposed to Diaz being  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 5:26 pm : link
IL'd or demoted at all actually. Give him some time to get away from the spotlight, work on his slider, etc. Only have a couple weeks left of minor league games to do it...

Of course, it won't realistically happen.
Diaz is a prime example  
pjcas18 : 8/17/2019 5:31 pm : link
why you don't give up high value assets or $$$ for a closer - especially in the off-season. I guess at the deadline when you're a contender you make exceptions.

They are fungible and variable.

By all accounts Diaz velocity is fine, and no one could have seen this decline coming.

Except almost everyone. Or at least almost no one is surprised by it except for a handful of people who defended the trade and hailed Diaz as the next Rivera.
RE: Diaz is a prime example  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 5:37 pm : link
In comment 14534300 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
why you don't give up high value assets or $$$ for a closer - especially in the off-season. I guess at the deadline when you're a contender you make exceptions.

They are fungible and variable.

By all accounts Diaz velocity is fine, and no one could have seen this decline coming.

Except almost everyone. Or at least almost no one is surprised by it except for a handful of people who defended the trade and hailed Diaz as the next Rivera.


That’s a major stretch. There wasn’t a single poster in baseball calling Diaz Mariano Rivera. He was, however, the best closer in baseball last year and only 24 years old. That holds value in any baseball market and the going price for that, whether anyone agrees with it or not, is a good prospect or two. I also don’t remember a single poster calling it a “win” for the Mets. At best a few thought it was “fair”. I was in that camp and I’m not changing that stance because of hindsight. Obviously, it’s ugly right now but we won’t know how that deal turns out for many years. Diaz could rebound next year. Cano could come back and play better... Kelenic could suck....

Either way it’s done. Nothing we can do about it. BVW made a great trade for Davis also.
The Davis trade  
pjcas18 : 8/17/2019 5:51 pm : link
was much better than I gave him credit for at the time. And it was never because I questioned Davis' bat, no one did, it was because he was a defensive liability and generally played positions the Mets didn't need.

His best has proven to be so good it outweighs his D.

Still felt like those resources could have been better used in a bullpen or defense first position player trade, but who knows what trades present themselves.

I was wrong on Davis.

The Diaz trade has a better chance to get added to the "10 worst trades in Mets history" than it does of being straightened out especially if BVW compounds it by dealing Diaz. He'll almost never get close to the value back that he gave up.
They traded 1 of the best prospect packages in recent memory  
Eric on Li : 8/17/2019 6:04 pm : link
for a player who is not 1 of the best players traded in recent memory by a long shot. Even if Diaz was Chapman a very good case could have made it would have been better to keep Kelenic off the table unless they were getting a young every day player - like Realmuto.

The chances of Diaz being so much better than Familia (or Miller or Ottavino), who all got signed for reasonable money and 0 prospects, that he was worth also giving up Kelenic + Dunn was always extremely remote.

I'll give BVW all the credit in the world for JDD though. There is a good chance he's a better hitter than Kelenic will be and we got his entire first contract. That move was as potentially volatile as the Diaz move so in a live by the sword/die by the sword things kind of evened out, but it doesn't excuse the mistake of giving up blue chip assets for a player whose prior season was an outlier in every sense.
Best prospect packages in recent memory??  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 6:24 pm : link
Kelenic and Dunn were nationally ranked 50-100 guys. Neither was a true blue chipper going the other way. Gimenez and Alonso were more highly regarded.

We can talk about Kelenic's upside all day long, but the truth is the further you are away from the majors, the more of a bust factor you have.

His value at the time of the deal was his value at the time of the deal. Now Kelenic has moved up the latter since then... but you can also make the case Dunn has gotten worse (99 ranked on BA as of its last ranking).
Rene Rivera is scorching hot  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 6:46 pm : link
in AAA right now. No idea if we can utilize that in some way. Probably not.
The roster is still bothering me...  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 6:52 pm : link
Dilson Herrera should be up on the bench. Id certainly take Rajai Davis over Altherr too. I dont know why we need so many relievers.
Ugh oh  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 6:54 pm : link
Sale is going to see Andrews about his elbow... Could be Tommy John. Yikes.
deGrom looks great  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 7:53 pm : link
But we can't score so....
think we need to pump the brakes on the  
Rory : 8/17/2019 7:57 pm : link
Diaz trade being a top 10 disaster, performances chance from year to year.

Diaz has showed some serious talent and has that talent, just need to figure out how to release the nerves, or find out if he's hiding an injury.

Cano could surprise next year it just sucks he holds McNeil's spot hostage.
RE: The roster is still bothering me...  
pjcas18 : 8/17/2019 7:57 pm : link
In comment 14534385 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Dilson Herrera should be up on the bench. Id certainly take Rajai Davis over Altherr too. I dont know why we need so many relievers.


Agree. Davis or Herrera should be up as bench bats/defense.
RE: think we need to pump the brakes on the  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 8:01 pm : link
In comment 14534421 Rory said:
Quote:
Diaz trade being a top 10 disaster, performances chance from year to year.

Diaz has showed some serious talent and has that talent, just need to figure out how to release the nerves, or find out if he's hiding an injury.

Cano could surprise next year it just sucks he holds McNeil's spot hostage.


Cano isnt holding McNeil's spot hostage. McNeil split time at 3B and 2B in the minors and judging by a small sample, McNeil's best position is actually 3B which happens to be wide open going forward.
RE: deGrom looks great  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 8:04 pm : link
In comment 14534417 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
But we can't score so....

This lineup somehow seems worse than last night

Pulling for them all, but Panik at #2, Guillorme, Lagares, my fav Altherr....ugh
RE: RE: deGrom looks great  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 8:10 pm : link
In comment 14534429 ChaChing said:
Quote:
In comment 14534417 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


But we can't score so....


This lineup somehow seems worse than last night

Pulling for them all, but Panik at #2, Guillorme, Lagares, my fav Altherr....ugh


Just brutal. This lineup is trash. We better get some pieces back soon or we are sunk.
In my face!!!  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 8:23 pm : link
Lagares & Altherr hits

What were the chances
AND Panik  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 8:26 pm : link
w/ the RBI single
I'm not going to weigh in on interleague or not...  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 8:44 pm : link
but this convo...Apples says "late season Mets are in KC in the middle of the div / WC races"

This a few minutes after showing the Mets' schedule of series after this one...ALL div or WC race teams
6 innings—time for Degrom to come out  
Vanzetti : 8/17/2019 8:46 pm : link
So Mickey can work his magic with the pen
RE: Best prospect packages in recent memory??  
Eric on Li : 8/17/2019 8:48 pm : link
In comment 14534356 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Kelenic and Dunn were nationally ranked 50-100 guys. Neither was a true blue chipper going the other way. Gimenez and Alonso were more highly regarded.

We can talk about Kelenic's upside all day long, but the truth is the further you are away from the majors, the more of a bust factor you have.

His value at the time of the deal was his value at the time of the deal. Now Kelenic has moved up the latter since then... but you can also make the case Dunn has gotten worse (99 ranked on BA as of its last ranking).


I've never been an overhyper of Kelenic and I'm still not but he and Dunn ended up a better package than what the Marlins got for Realmuto this year or Yelich/Ozuna last year (imo). Or what the yanks gave up for James Paxton or stros w/ Cole. Can't think of too many other big trades the past few offseasons. Hand+ brought back Francisco Mejia last year in-season. Teams have been a lot less inclined to give up top prospects in the last several years. Meadows/Glasnow almost definitely a better haul but they were both already in the big leagues.
RE: 6 innings—time for Degrom to come out  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 8:49 pm : link
In comment 14534458 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
So Mickey can work his magic with the pen

Does KC have some righties coming up? Lets get Avilan in there
Oof not hoping for Altherr to get hit in the head  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 8:51 pm : link
but that's doing us a favor w/ his scorching .089...

Gotta score now w/ top order coming up
big AB for polar bear  
Eric on Li : 8/17/2019 8:59 pm : link
good need some heroics from someone while the lineup sucks. That walk by Rosario btw was extremely impressive.
No granny  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 9:04 pm : link
but big Pete comes through...with a little shaky D by KC too

2RBI single 3-1 Mets
Rosario  
pjcas18 : 8/17/2019 9:08 pm : link
out of the game
Degrom is gassed  
Vanzetti : 8/17/2019 9:16 pm : link
Hot day
RE: RE: Best prospect packages in recent memory??  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 9:17 pm : link
In comment 14534459 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14534356 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Kelenic and Dunn were nationally ranked 50-100 guys. Neither was a true blue chipper going the other way. Gimenez and Alonso were more highly regarded.

We can talk about Kelenic's upside all day long, but the truth is the further you are away from the majors, the more of a bust factor you have.

His value at the time of the deal was his value at the time of the deal. Now Kelenic has moved up the latter since then... but you can also make the case Dunn has gotten worse (99 ranked on BA as of its last ranking).



I've never been an overhyper of Kelenic and I'm still not but he and Dunn ended up a better package than what the Marlins got for Realmuto this year or Yelich/Ozuna last year (imo). Or what the yanks gave up for James Paxton or stros w/ Cole. Can't think of too many other big trades the past few offseasons. Hand+ brought back Francisco Mejia last year in-season. Teams have been a lot less inclined to give up top prospects in the last several years. Meadows/Glasnow almost definitely a better haul but they were both already in the big leagues.


I dont agree with this. The Marlins trades for Yelich and Ozuna are notoriously shit on for the lack of talent the Marlins brought back but they still brought back prospects that were top 50. Brinson was around 32 which is way higher than Kelenic was. Also, you're getting into control time too now(Realmuto one year of control VS Diaz 4).

Best to keep it simple and compare the trade to high profile relievers such as Miller, Kimbrell, and Chapman over recent years IMO. All had significant prospects going the other way in those deals.

Need better ABs from Conforto  
Vanzetti : 8/17/2019 9:22 pm : link
With all the injuries, Conforto needs to step up.

In the four losses, there have been several occasions where he has been up in a potentially game changing situation, and he is swinging from the heels.

Needs to cut down on his swing, especially with two strikes. Go the other way. He is trying to hit a five-run homer when all they need is a single
Now Guillorme & Lagares  
ChaChing : 8/17/2019 9:28 pm : link
Single then a triple for Lagares...another 3 hits today, 4-1

Ima start shit talking all Mets moving fwd
Lagares definitely heating up  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 9:29 pm : link
Amazing what consistent atbats can do for a player. Nice to see.
PIITB  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 9:52 pm : link
Nice win. Win again tomorrow and all is well.
Ugly win but I’ll take it  
Metnut : 8/17/2019 10:19 pm : link
Please win tomorrow.
RE: Lagares definitely heating up  
Metnut : 8/17/2019 10:20 pm : link
In comment 14534498 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Amazing what consistent atbats can do for a player. Nice to see.


Yea, I’ve always liked him. Glad to see him hanging in there
RE: Lagares definitely heating up  
81_Great_Dane : 8/17/2019 10:20 pm : link
In comment 14534498 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Amazing what consistent atbats can do for a player. Nice to see.
If Lagares regains his Gold Glove form in CF and just hits decently, that's huge for this team. They need a true centerfielder who is a solid bat, at least off the bench.

I think Guillorme is a very nice bench player, BTW. Underrated so far. I'd be happy to see him as the utility infielder in 2020. Rosario seems to finally have SS locked down. McNeill should be at either 2nd or 3rd IMO. I don't know what to make of Cano at this point. Davis needs to play every day somewhere, but so does Smith... and Nimmo... and Conforto... and assuming he comes back, Cespedes.

Alonso needs to spend the winter taking grounders at first base. He hasn't been as bad as advertised, but he hasn't been real good either. Good at scooping throws, not so much on ground balls.

I think there's a big trade for coming in the offseason. The Mets have too many corner outfielders and an extra 1st baseman in Smith, not enough relievers, centerfielders and catchers. The roster doesn't make sense. But there are plenty of assets to trade.
The Mets need to get healthier  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 10:36 pm : link
offensively or they are going to get mauled by the Indians and Braves coming up. We need Davis back tomorrow and we need McNeil back by next weekend. Hopefully, Nimmo is right behind them.
I would also send Sewald, Tejada, and Altherr packing  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 10:38 pm : link
And call up Dilson, Rajai Davis, and Rivera.
This is the great thing about baseball...  
Chris684 : 8/17/2019 10:39 pm : link
Bounce back after last night, win the series tomorrow and all is well.
Nats/Brewers in a huge battle  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 10:58 pm : link
In extra innings. Hader just had the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth and struck out three in a row (Turner, Eaton, and Rendon) to send it to extras. Score is 12-12. Wow.
Mets only have 13 road games left  
Vanzetti : 8/17/2019 11:01 pm : link
1 in KC

And 3 game series vs Phil’s, Nats, Reds and Rockies

All the rest are at home. Where they play much better
RE: Nats/Brewers in a huge battle  
Metnut : 8/17/2019 11:53 pm : link
In comment 14534538 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In extra innings. Hader just had the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth and struck out three in a row (Turner, Eaton, and Rendon) to send it to extras. Score is 12-12. Wow.


Who do we want to win? I think Brewers...
RE: RE: Nats/Brewers in a huge battle  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2019 11:54 pm : link
In comment 14534562 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 14534538 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In extra innings. Hader just had the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth and struck out three in a row (Turner, Eaton, and Rendon) to send it to extras. Score is 12-12. Wow.



Who do we want to win? I think Brewers...


Yes. Doolittle gave up 3 home runs in the 9th. Crazy. If Diaz did that we'd be jumping off buildings. These bullpens in our division are comical.
RE: RE: RE: Nats/Brewers in a huge battle  
Rory : 8/18/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14534564 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14534562 Metnut said:


Quote:


In comment 14534538 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In extra innings. Hader just had the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth and struck out three in a row (Turner, Eaton, and Rendon) to send it to extras. Score is 12-12. Wow.



Who do we want to win? I think Brewers...



Yes. Doolittle gave up 3 home runs in the 9th. Crazy. If Diaz did that we'd be jumping off buildings. These bullpens in our division are comical.


He's waaaay overworked, been saying it since June, Nats put alot on Doolittle this year and he's not going to be able to be doing it by himself much longer.

And yes you're right on McNeil, I forgot Frazier is a FA next year.
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