Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Iyo, where should the “uber” cap money go in 2020?

Big Blue '56 : 8/18/2019 5:59 am
Priority of course is extending our own where appropriate. And yes, it’s imperative we continue to draft well and build with talented youth. That all said, for the first time in forever, we may indeed have more available cap money than we’ve ever enjoyed, if the projections are reasonably correct.

So, what would you, the armchair GM, do for this roster in addition to keeping our own talent?
And what areas  
Big Blue '56 : 8/18/2019 6:00 am : link
would you tackle?
I'd keep an eye on the WR market, we don't have a legit #1 there  
Torrag : 8/18/2019 6:09 am : link
Pass rush is always on the radar and a priority. I really like the youth and talent we are accumulating on the inside of the DL but at Edge/OLB we may have some work to do.

Longterm we may need an upgrade at RT as well.

IMO come next off season those positions could be at the top of the wishlist. Things could change however.
I think our biggest need will be pass rush.  
Diver_Down : 8/18/2019 6:36 am : link
Carter and X-Man are expected to continue to develop. Golden on a 1yr prove it deal will either be allowed to walk or look to be extended. The question is how much will he be worth? He has an injury history and if proven healthy, will be looking to max out his earning potential. I wouldn't blame him. But given options between Golden and Yannick, I'm hoping DG chooses the young stud Ngakoue. He has no injury history and consistently produces as a top edge rusher.

Many will point to OV as a lesson in caution, but OV's problem was the projection. Reese saw a guy who was young and healthy (before his Giants tenure) that was a consistent 8 sack guy. The projection was that he was ready to take the next step into a consistent double-digit sack leader. It turns out he is and will be the consistent 8 sack guy, but now misses games on a yearly basis to injury.

Ideally, we continue to draft and develop our young talent. But the risk is that you are burning Barkley's youth in an attempt to save money and capture lightening in a bottle. If a difference maker like Yannick is available, you don't have to project what he will be. You don't have to wait and hope that he develops into a star. Pay him and capture his youth and productivity while it aligns with Barkley.

OL is imperative that we continue to draft/develop. We have to see what we have in Gates and Big George. But we can't wait as counting on Remmers and Solder is a losing hand in the long run. We need a long term answer at RT next year. Big George and Gates might only serve as depth. I would like a high draft pick at OT next year to add to the stable. Long term, Hernandez will be looking to be extended in 2 years. If he continues his development, he'll set the market. Zeitler if he continues his steady play will be looking for an extension at the same time. It is reasonable that we might be having the highest paid tandem at guard in a few years. Solder's contract will be tolling at the same time. We can't have 3 out of 5 OL be paid top salaries for their position. While it is nice to find OL to develop in the later rounds, sometimes you need to hedge your bet by picking talent higher.
Good discussion to have  
pjcas18 : 8/18/2019 6:37 am : link
because in 2020 the Giants are projected to have over $55M in cap space, which is "only" 9th most in the league - I think before any 2019 carryovers and before any cuts, but unlike many teams ahead of them the Giants will not have any major free agents in need of being extended in 2020.

The big NYG FA's will be Rosas (RFA), Remmers, Eli obviously and role players.

so, they can choose to be involved in FA if they decide or could extend young guys Barkley (if they want) or some of the other young guys who have 2020 as their last year under contract like Peppers. I don't have the answer, but it's interesting to think about.

I'll give you an example of what I mean. The Cowboys are projected to have the 2nd most space ($74M, but they have many potential FA's including Prescott (who would eat up $25M+ of that $74M, Sean Lee, Amari Cooper, La'el Collins, Byron Jones, Robert Quinn, and more.

I want Jaylon Smith  
CMicks3110 : 8/18/2019 6:40 am : link
And Daryl Williams, extend Dalvin Tomlinson. Add an edge rusher (doubt owner is available, but if he is, open the flood gates for him); consolation prize, add Von Miller
Doubt *Clowney  
CMicks3110 : 8/18/2019 6:40 am : link
.
pj -  
Diver_Down : 8/18/2019 6:42 am : link
I don't think Barkley is eligible for an extension. I believe players on rookie deals must have 3 accrued years of service before being eligible. In 2021 is the earliest that SB can get an extension.
RE: I want Jaylon Smith  
Diver_Down : 8/18/2019 6:45 am : link
In comment 14534609 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
And Daryl Williams, extend Dalvin Tomlinson. Add an edge rusher (doubt owner is available, but if he is, open the flood gates for him); consolation prize, add Von Miller


No to Daryl Williams. Can't continue to set the market for OL especially those with an injury history.

And definitely no to Clowney. He's a dog.
WR FA market next year will be dry in 2020  
Capt. Don : 8/18/2019 6:46 am : link
Whereas the draft should be quite strong. That said we will definitely need depth signings there bc we are losing Lstimer, Cleman and Fowler. Bring some of those guys back or someone like Jaelen Strong.

Only big time FA I'd really go after is Myles Jack and the depending on how Remmers and some of the young tackles look, maybe Daryl William's or bring in Jack Conklin to compete on a 1 year deal.
RE: pj -  
pjcas18 : 8/18/2019 6:49 am : link
In comment 14534612 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
I don't think Barkley is eligible for an extension. I believe players on rookie deals must have 3 accrued years of service before being eligible. In 2021 is the earliest that SB can get an extension.


interesting, and any position other than RB a healthy super star is a no-brainer, but teams just seem hesitant to give that 2nd RB contract early. So, in that case look for more opportunities like Peppers (if he's a good fit and high performer this year).
Jaylon Smith is not an UFA  
Capt. Don : 8/18/2019 6:50 am : link
I dont believe.

I'd also look at someone like Sean Davis or Justin Simmons at FS.
Great insights above.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/18/2019 7:04 am : link
Additionally, now that (hopefully) our future QB is in tow as is out superstar RB, we really can do some “damage” in next year’s draft with the OL, WR and LB. I have zero idea how the draft projects for those positions, but having (again, hopefully) the pressure removed at QB should be huge.

Jaylon Smith  
KarenP : 8/18/2019 7:11 am : link
this will be his 4th year in the league, so I expect he'll be a free agent after this season. he was drafted in the 2nd round.
OL, OL, OL  
AnnapolisMike : 8/18/2019 7:27 am : link
If the last 5 years has taught us anything...it's that without a decent OL you are sunk. Need to keep throw shit at that line. We are going to need a new LT in two years. I'd make that priority one.
Put it in layaway  
ron mexico : 8/18/2019 8:12 am : link
For Barkley

Kidding aside but if these draft classes pan out, would've nice to be able to keep them.
RE: And what areas  
Earl the goat : 8/18/2019 8:14 am : link
In comment 14534603 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
would you tackle?



Happy Birthday I believe
Pass rush & the OL.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/18/2019 8:16 am : link
It all starts in the trenches.
I would go out and get a center at all costs  
Earl the goat : 8/18/2019 8:17 am : link
Whether it’s in FA or draft. I don’t believe in Halapio and with Barkley and Jones being your top picks in the last two drafts and the most important pieces on the team I believe a center will elevate their play
I believe they will need to  
section125 : 8/18/2019 8:23 am : link
see how the season plays out before looking to spend on FAs. Offensive line will always be a priority, but the draft is better than FA. Zeitler and Solder are good through 2022. So there is time to draft and develop. Remmers is the guy they may need to re-sign unless another younger solid RT becomes available.
Let's see what happens with WR. Will Slayton or Russell develop?
OLB/pass rush - again need to see if Carter and Xman develop or if Golden regains form.
FS - this seems to be the area most in need of help. Maybe Love turns into a keeper with his CB ability.
TE - will Engram shine or will they need a dominant TE
Don't spend the cap money just to do it and wind up with long term  
Ira : 8/18/2019 8:25 am : link
contracts that hand cuff the team in future years.
RE: RE: And what areas  
Big Blue '56 : 8/18/2019 8:30 am : link
In comment 14534640 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
In comment 14534603 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


would you tackle?




Happy Birthday I believe


Yesterday. Thanks, buddy
RE: OL, OL, OL  
mavric : 8/18/2019 8:33 am : link
In comment 14534627 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
If the last 5 years has taught us anything...it's that without a decent OL you are sunk. Need to keep throw shit at that line. We are going to need a new LT in two years. I'd make that priority one.


My sentiments exactly. Not only a power starting o-line, but young studs backing up the starters who have the qualities of future pro-bowlers. Build it like a concrete wall / bulldozer with solid depth. Keep Jones healthy and safe for the rest of his Giants' career.
Spend less on WRs and RBs that are in their 30s  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 8:36 am : link
and more on impactful LBs and experienced O-lineman...
I'd go after a  
Big Rick in FL : 8/18/2019 8:48 am : link
Right Tackle, pass rush and an ILB. Not in any specific order. The WR market is horrible. So I'd go after a WR in the draft. Most likely there will be good value in the 2nd round.

Yannick Ngakoue would be my top target for ER. If we can't sign him I'd go after Clowney. If we can't sign either I'd go after Matt Judon.

I'd try to sign either Daryl Williams or Jack Conklin.

Jaylon Smith is a RFA next year, because he didn't play his entire rookie year. So he's off the table. In order at LB I'd try to sign one of Myles Jack, Jatavis Brown or Kamu Grugier-Hill.

Good question  
UberAlias : 8/18/2019 8:53 am : link
I wouldn’t spend FA money in Oline. We need to start building that up via the draft. I would say maybe a pass rusher if one is available, but we need to continue drafting those as well. Also a WR, perhaps.
A good question I don't have an answer for right now...  
Dan in the Springs : 8/18/2019 8:57 am : link
But, considering the very real likelihood of a labor stoppage soon I would be putting as many of my cap dollars into salaries as possible, instead of bonuses, to encourage my players to get back to work. Not sure it would be easy, but it would be in my mind.
Here is my mentality  
robbieballs2003 : 8/18/2019 9:20 am : link
You overpay for certain positions in FA like pass rusher. You are better off drafting one. WR can be hit or miss. I feel that the top guys always get paid a ton but then there is that bargain area. With that said, it sounds like WR is not a strength next year in FA but is a huge strength in the draft. Pass rusher and WR could be two early picks for us next year.

I 100% agree with going after Jaylon Williams if he continues to stay healthy. Dallas is having a hard time paying the top 3 guys in Dak, Zeke, and Cooper. It looks as if Smith is not a priority. Nothing better than strengthening your team while weakening a division rival.

Also, I think it makes sense to pay for an OL. OL used to be one of the highest hit rates in the draft. It is becoming the worst now. It is so hard to evaluate OL in college nowadays. EVERY TEAM is in need of OL. If zi am going to spend big money then OL tops the list before pass rusber for me. 3/5 of our OL looks set. The two main question marks are C and RT. If they work out then resign them. If not, we could be players in the OL market. This doesn't mean that we should just ignore the position in the draft. We still need some developmental players but that is where those mid round picks come in handy.

We also may need a backup QB and a guy like Keenum could fit the bill.

Overall, just because we have the money doesn't mean we will be reckless with it. I think OL makes the most sense in protecting your top two picks the last two years in Barkley and Jones. That has to be a priority. After that edge rusher could be in play but no need to overspend imo. Jaylon Smith could line up next to Connelly next year and that looks pretty damn good. I don't think we should spend big on WR either as we seem to be getting production from the WR group. But the draft will have plenty of talent available there.
Thanks Rick re  
Big Blue '56 : 8/18/2019 9:26 am : link
Jaylon Smith being an RFA and not a UFA
Question for Diver  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/18/2019 9:35 am : link
I defer to your cap expertise on this but was actually just wondering, with the Giants' cap room next offseason, would it make sense for them to pay out high guaranteed salaries in the first year of new deals in lieu (to whatever extent) of signing bonuses?

The players get the same guaranteed money, the team spends a lot of cap room up front to ensure additional space in subsequent years, and it helps keep the dead money from becoming an issue if the free agent(s) turn out to be a bad fit.

The only thing I can think of that might be a sticking point could be agents actually knowing the value of the dead money as implied leverage to help ensure that a greater sum of non-guaranteed money becomes likely to be paid.
Clowney  
Toth029 : 8/18/2019 9:37 am : link
Will want $20M a year and he isn't a dominant pass rusher.

Why would anybody want that?
Depends on who shakes loose  
WillVAB : 8/18/2019 10:01 am : link
But I’d spend at OL, ER, and LB. Conklin and Bulaga would make sense at RT. Von Miller if he hits the market. Myles Jack at LB.
This draft is littered with WR talent  
Jim in Forest Hills : 8/18/2019 10:07 am : link
I’d look at OC, LB and edge
1. OL (can never have enough), 2. playmaker on D, 3. playmaker on O  
Eric on Li : 8/18/2019 10:07 am : link
in that order. Positions don't matter as much as scheme fits. If he stays healthy Daryl Williams will be a very appealing FA target once again. Next up would be anyone who can help the pass rush or add some explosiveness on offense.

And then rinse and repeat with the top picks in the draft, though you can probably wait on OL a little bit if they add a starter via FA.
Yannick Ngakoue for  
Pete in MD : 8/18/2019 10:11 am : link
the pass rush and Sean Davis for FS. Get more Terps on the team.
I’d love Conklin,  
Big Blue '56 : 8/18/2019 11:41 am : link
but it might require breaking the bank. Not certain I’d do that, but he’s still really young.
Pay for a RT that  
Sy'56 : 8/18/2019 11:52 am : link
And put attention on drafting a LT in the next 1-2 years.
A lot depends on who's out there at each position, but all things  
Ira : 8/18/2019 12:16 pm : link
being equal, targeting offensive tackle makes sense. With Barkley on the club, a top notch offensive line can give him the kind of running room that he can take advantage of.
An impact LB is my first choice  
JerseyCityJoe : 8/18/2019 12:22 pm : link
Its also my second choice.
Wouldn't  
Thegratefulhead : 8/18/2019 12:31 pm : link
Young ascending players without history of injury. Would stay away from QB and RB but anything else would be good.
Like how the 2020 draft is lining up so far for oline and wr  
Payasdaddy : 8/18/2019 12:43 pm : link
If our Qb of the future is settled with Jones and we have 6-8 yrs top Saquon, I would continue to fortify oline every yr. And the timing should be much better bringing in top wr talent in draft in 2020 with ascending team compared to where we were last yr with that other guy at wr with a non contending team
F/A. Absolutely see if u can go ER. Or a real active ilb who can cover or top ballhawk safety
I like the idea so much of signing better core players who’s arrow is up like ss than overpaying a guy to stay when in f/a like jpp
RE: Question for Diver  
Diver_Down : 8/18/2019 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14534682 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
I defer to your cap expertise on this but was actually just wondering, with the Giants' cap room next offseason, would it make sense for them to pay out high guaranteed salaries in the first year of new deals in lieu (to whatever extent) of signing bonuses?

The players get the same guaranteed money, the team spends a lot of cap room up front to ensure additional space in subsequent years, and it helps keep the dead money from becoming an issue if the free agent(s) turn out to be a bad fit.

The only thing I can think of that might be a sticking point could be agents actually knowing the value of the dead money as implied leverage to help ensure that a greater sum of non-guaranteed money becomes likely to be paid.


It is an interesting theory to discuss. A number of factors have to be considered to employ such a tactic.

First and foremost, we will have an eye to taking care of our own. Barkley is going to get paid a ton. He doesn't strike me as a player that will be demanding a new contract after next year when he'll be eligible. Also, the DG has annointed SB as the Chosen One. He is the Franchise. DG won't run Barkley into the ground with 5th year options and subsequent Franchise Tags. Barkley will get his deal, but it will likely be at the end of year 4. Planning ahead of time by rolling over cap will ensure the Giants are not left with their pants down.

The type of player personality wise determines if the high salary tactic could be used. For example, if Jalen Ramsay and Yannick are both to be paid, both deserve the money. But Jalen strikes me as a player interested in not only getting what he deserves, but also capturing the headline as being the highest paid. Once the PR subsides and other players surpass the benchmark, Ramsey will be griping about his contract in the team friendly years. Yannick on the other hand strikes me as a player who just wants to be fairly compensated. The headline doesn't matter to him. A player such as him, you can pay the high salary in year 1 with lower salaries in subsequent years.

Overall, I think it would be a good idea to front load the contract. With the emphasis on culture, DG isn't going to be shopping for players interested in capturing the headlines.
Save most of it to re-sign our excellent group of young players  
djm : 8/18/2019 2:47 pm : link
Use some of it on a stabilizing force at LB, ala Antonio Pierce or Mike Barrow.

Hopefully add good OL talent via the draft.
DE and WR.  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/18/2019 2:50 pm : link
.
No signing bonuses should be given.  
jlukes : 8/18/2019 2:51 pm : link
First (and second) year salaries should simply be guaranteed.

Isn't there a rule  
pjcas18 : 8/18/2019 2:59 pm : link
about how much of the contract can be in the first year(s) as salary or was that just in the uncapped year?

IOW (and this is an obviously extreme example to make a point) I thought you couldn't give a player a 5 year 100M contract with a $98M salary in year 1 and a $1M signing bonus and 250k salaries year 2 - 5.

Or am I just completely mistaken?
RE: Isn't there a rule  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/18/2019 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14535059 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
about how much of the contract can be in the first year(s) as salary or was that just in the uncapped year?

IOW (and this is an obviously extreme example to make a point) I thought you couldn't give a player a 5 year 100M contract with a $98M salary in year 1 and a $1M signing bonus and 250k salaries year 2 - 5.

Or am I just completely mistaken?

I think there might be a rule that dictates the maximum year over year decrease in salary within the same contract, or at least there used to be, if memory serves. If that's the case, you're right - it would dictate the extent to which this tactic could be utilized.
RE: RE: Isn't there a rule  
Diver_Down : 8/18/2019 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14535123 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14535059 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


about how much of the contract can be in the first year(s) as salary or was that just in the uncapped year?

IOW (and this is an obviously extreme example to make a point) I thought you couldn't give a player a 5 year 100M contract with a $98M salary in year 1 and a $1M signing bonus and 250k salaries year 2 - 5.

Or am I just completely mistaken?


I think there might be a rule that dictates the maximum year over year decrease in salary within the same contract, or at least there used to be, if memory serves. If that's the case, you're right - it would dictate the extent to which this tactic could be utilized.


I think what PJ is referring to was within regards to the uncapped year. In his hypothetical, it couldn't happen as there are minimum that must be adhered to. Assumption that anyone getting a second contract is a vested veteran so the vet. minimum has to be the floor. A 250K salary is fiction, but for the sake of the hypothetical the point is clear.

Now, I can't remember specifics, but I think we did this with Osi's contract. His initial year was front loaded and subsequent years decreased. But in Osi's case, he was bitching in the later years because those year's salary was vastly underpaid. It is a delicate situation because then the club is made to look like bad guys when they have to remind the player that they were already paid.
Good points and informative.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/19/2019 6:46 am : link
Thankfully, I believe Abrams has a good handle on things, imo
What they should do  
JonC : 8/19/2019 8:00 am : link
is not spend like drunken sailors. Contracts like those to Solder, Tate, et al should be less frequent if not gone entirely. Lock up the core talent, and try to add ascending talent wisely, which is easier said than done especially when they've not done so well with it in recent years.
As to positions  
JonC : 8/19/2019 8:02 am : link
if the right opportunities present themselves, we figure to be shopping for an edge rusher, WR, and RT. On a lower cost tier, we could be looking for a FS, C, ILB.
RE: Good points and informative.  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/19/2019 8:23 am : link
In comment 14535503 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Thankfully, I believe Abrams has a good handle on things, imo

Meh. Abrams is good enough, but hardly represents any sort of competitive advantage for the Giants.
Clowney is a football and cap IQ test  
JonC : 8/19/2019 8:25 am : link
.
RE: Clowney is a football and cap IQ test  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/19/2019 8:26 am : link
In comment 14535539 JonC said:
Quote:
.

This should be made into a neon sign and hung from a billboard stanchion on route 3.
...  
christian : 8/19/2019 10:55 am : link
I think 20 & 21 are great years to lean into spending in UFA.

There are no UFAs that are "must" re-signs on the roster. Remmers and the second group of receivers will be evaluated, but they won't block a younger, better replacement.

The Giants also have 2 straight 1st round picks they didn't re-sign or sign the 5th year option, that's talent that needs to be replaced and money that is there.

The key if they are going to open up the purse is to sign guys in their 5th or 6th year in the NFL not 9th or later.
RE: RE: Good points and informative.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/19/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14535538 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14535503 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


Thankfully, I believe Abrams has a good handle on things, imo


Meh. Abrams is good enough, but hardly represents any sort of competitive advantage for the Giants.


Wasn’t implying a competitive advantage. Merely stating that Abrams is quite good at what he does imo and so I have little concern with him moving forward. Nothing more than that.
Something to consider  
AcesUp : 8/19/2019 3:04 pm : link
Engram, Peppers, Hernandez, Hill and LCs contracts/options expire the same year with Barkley on his final year option. If everything breaks right with our young talent, that is something this team will need to contend with pretty shortly. We'll know more by next offseason but that's priority 1 if they mature.

If the arrow is pointing up, I'd follow the Colts lead from this offseason in targeting some "prove it" types and veteran cap casualties at positions of need. Maybe target a top shelf guy if there'e one there but it's pretty rare to find value in the early wave. I'm definitely in the "don't spend it just to spend it" camp.
RE: Question for Diver  
ron mexico : 8/19/2019 3:30 pm : link
In comment 14534682 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
I defer to your cap expertise on this but was actually just wondering, with the Giants' cap room next offseason, would it make sense for them to pay out high guaranteed salaries in the first year of new deals in lieu (to whatever extent) of signing bonuses?

The players get the same guaranteed money, the team spends a lot of cap room up front to ensure additional space in subsequent years, and it helps keep the dead money from becoming an issue if the free agent(s) turn out to be a bad fit.

The only thing I can think of that might be a sticking point could be agents actually knowing the value of the dead money as implied leverage to help ensure that a greater sum of non-guaranteed money becomes likely to be paid.


This is an interesting strategy and one that makes sense to me for the right candidate. But I don't think I've ever seen a team do this. There must be a valid reason why not.

1) Best possible center to anchor the line, and give our QB  
CT Charlie : 8/19/2019 3:41 pm : link
a pocket to step into. RT? We'll see.

2) LB because they're so important in a 3-4.

3) Anything else to solidify defense.

4) I'd actually rather invest in a premier double-threat TE and depth at WR rather than put huge money into a star WR. WR's always seem to get hurt and I'd rather have 3 very good and 2 good receivers rather than 1 great one and not much depth.
Regarding what positions to target in FA:  
81_Great_Dane : 8/19/2019 5:55 pm : link
The problem with getting guys in free agency is you almost always overpay for top talent. That's how it works. So if you need to fill a spot, it makes sense — signing Plaxico Burress, for example. But you can't do a lot of that or you get in trouble. It's MUCH more important to draft well, because at some point, in order to keep the stars at the top of the rosters, you're going to have to let depth guys go in free agency and replace them with guys on their rookie contracts.

What positions make sense in free agency to me? Maybe a left tackle or a really good young center. A top wide receiver. A young Edge guy with a lot of upside.

Sometimes you can strike gold with guys who were buried on their previous team and are trying to step up, as Linval Joseph and Visanthe Shiancoe did on leaving the Giants for the Vikings. That's pretty much what the Giants did when they acquired Rob Carpenter in the 80s. Also pretty much how it went with Ottis Anderson, I think. Both turned out to be bargains because they weren't premier names .

The 2020 cap space is kind of a luxury, because it'll be a young team, but also a trap, because if they lean too much on acquiring FA veterans they're going to have trouble down the road.
Back to the Corner