The morning after the draft, there was plenty of questions/disappointment/outrage with the selection of Jones at 6, especially since Allen was there for the taking. Well, would anyone today trade Jones for Allen straight up? In fact, would you trade him straight up for anyone in the top 10 selections in this years draft? I know it's way to early to know how it will all pan out, but the excitement of having a potential future starting franchise QB is hard to top. As a side note, after rewatching Fridays game, he only had one bad pass. The first incompletion was thrown short. Incomplete pass to TJ Jones was a beautiful pass, but he stumbled coming out of his break. The other was a pure drop.
As to the question, I wanted Jones on draft night, that has not changed
You cannot fake what jones has shown in practice and in the two preseason games. I know folks contend that it’s only preseason, but we’ve seen plenty of Giants qbs not be able to hold their own against practice squad players, let alone a smattering of some other teams starters or backups. Most recently, Davis Webb has that dubious distinction. However, we also don’t know what Josh Allen will be and whether DJ will continue to develop.
You cannot fake what jones has shown in practice and in the two preseason games. I know folks contend that it’s only preseason, but we’ve seen plenty of Giants qbs not be able to hold their own against practice squad players, let alone a smattering of some other teams starters or backups. Most recently, Davis Webb has that dubious distinction. However, we also don’t know what Josh Allen will be and whether DJ will continue to develop.
100% agree. Unfortunately, that same logic should have been applied on draft night. Surely, there must be ONE person that still would select Allen a mere 13 passes later....
Could see his quick get off on the snap but he didn't show much in the way of moves. He matched up often with Andre Dillard and Dillard handled the bull rush pretty easily it seemed.
Allen did get a half sack on a play where he was left unblocked.
Quick take: no "second coming of Von Miller" regrets on passing on Allen.
But Eagles could have a good one in Dillard. He looks prototypical.
Guaranteed you will now that you brought it up. That may go on for years now. LOL
Can't we be happy Jones is looking good without rehashing old debates in order to make a cheap point?
Yes, that point is legit. However, with the skills that Jones has displayed, does it give the idea that he may have been selected by Denver or Cincinnati prior to 17 more credibility?
Can't we be happy Jones is looking good without rehashing old debates in order to make a cheap point?
The point of the thread is not an "I told you so" point. It's a reminder that 99.9% of us know less about draft selection/player evaluation than the football professionals. This year the reactions were so extreme in such a short amount of time, that I think it's a fun discussion.
17 to where? The Broncos were at 10, the Bengals at 11 and Redskins at 15. The Bengals or Broncos might have attempted to trade up themseelves and more importantly at what cost? We certainly wouldn't have Baker if we had to trade up.
If you like a quarterback, you just don't mess around and hope that you might be able to trade up before another team beats you to the punch
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Like Gettleman (the God) says, you can't look at any one move in a vacuum. Obviously, anyone who didn't want Jones as the pick had other ideas for quarterback that would make picking Josh Allen at 6 irrelevant to the QB question.
Can't we be happy Jones is looking good without rehashing old debates in order to make a cheap point?
The point of the thread is not an "I told you so" point. It's a reminder that 99.9% of us know less about draft selection/player evaluation than the football professionals. This year the reactions were so extreme in such a short amount of time, that I think it's a fun discussion.
Pros more often then not get a QB selection wrong, let alone us fanboys. That's why can't stand bbi blowhards. Can't stand them. HERR DERR SAM DONALD ROSEN
Too soon to tell anything past that, though if Jones continues to improve, then you absolutely would never make that trade.
And yeah, it's obvious Jones vs Darnold is going to be a thing for years to come.
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They probably could have had both. Sure maybe Jones wouldn’t have made it to 17, but they probably could have drafted Allen and traded up from 17 to land Jones.
17 to where? The Broncos were at 10, the Bengals at 11 and Redskins at 15. The Bengals or Broncos might have attempted to trade up themseelves and more importantly at what cost? We certainly wouldn't have Baker if we had to trade up.
If you like a quarterback, you just don't mess around and hope that you might be able to trade up before another team beats you to the punch
I don't think Giants fans sound insecure. Reading some of your posts since Jones has played certainly make you appear to be the insecure one, though.
The question "would you trade Jones for Allen today?" can absolutely be answered today.....it's a opinion question on a football discussion website that has plenty of opinions, many of which we expressed immediately after the draft.
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They probably could have had both. Sure maybe Jones wouldn’t have made it to 17, but they probably could have drafted Allen and traded up from 17 to land Jones.
Yes, that point is legit. However, with the skills that Jones has displayed, does it give the idea that he may have been selected by Denver or Cincinnati prior to 17 more credibility?
There is no discussion of credibility on this matter. Cincy already had a deal worked out wit Buffalo to trade ahead of Denver, hinging on Giants pick. DG played the rest of the league like a fiddle.
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IMO, Giants fans appear very insecure right now. Jones has looked good in the preseason, but they’re scrambling to make more of it than they should. If Jets fans were hyping one of their guys we’d all be pointing to vanilla schemes no game planning, lack of pressure / clean pocket, facing backups etc as reason not to get carried away, and justifiably so. There seems to be a desperate need go back and justify all the moves and manufacture optimism. It’s not a good look, IMO, but I get it. We’ve become one of those fan bases. Losing will do that to you. But truth is, there won’t be any meaningful answer to any of these questions for a couple years. Not until we have meaningful body to assess the QBs. Like it or not, we have to be patient. But the world isn’t patient these days. People have to defend the cause in social media on a daily basis.
I don't think Giants fans sound insecure. Reading some of your posts since Jones has played certainly make you appear to be the insecure one, though.
+3
The more I think about it, the more I'm sure we're seeing something from Jones we really never seen in a Giants QB before. He's like LT.
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In comment 14534692 adamg said:u
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Like Gettleman (the God) says, you can't look at any one move in a vacuum. Obviously, anyone who didn't want Jones as the pick had other ideas for quarterback that would make picking Josh Allen at 6 irrelevant to the QB question.
Can't we be happy Jones is looking good without rehashing old debates in order to make a cheap point?
The point of the thread is not an "I told you so" point. It's a reminder that 99.9% of us know less about draft selection/player evaluation than the football professionals. This year the reactions were so extreme in such a short amount of time, that I think it's a fun discussion.
Pros more often then not get a QB selection wrong, let alone us fanboys. That's why can't stand bbi blowhards. Can't stand them. HERR DERR SAM DONALD ROSEN
If the football professionals are right 40% of the time, I'm willing to bet the fan base is right less than that.
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IMO, Giants fans appear very insecure right now. Jones has looked good in the preseason, but they’re scrambling to make more of it than they should. If Jets fans were hyping one of their guys we’d all be pointing to vanilla schemes no game planning, lack of pressure / clean pocket, facing backups etc as reason not to get carried away, and justifiably so. There seems to be a desperate need go back and justify all the moves and manufacture optimism. It’s not a good look, IMO, but I get it. We’ve become one of those fan bases. Losing will do that to you. But truth is, there won’t be any meaningful answer to any of these questions for a couple years. Not until we have meaningful body to assess the QBs. Like it or not, we have to be patient. But the world isn’t patient these days. People have to defend the cause in social media on a daily basis.
I don't think Giants fans sound insecure. Reading some of your posts since Jones has played certainly make you appear to be the insecure one, though.
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In comment 14534702 UberAlias said:
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IMO, Giants fans appear very insecure right now. Jones has looked good in the preseason, but they’re scrambling to make more of it than they should. If Jets fans were hyping one of their guys we’d all be pointing to vanilla schemes no game planning, lack of pressure / clean pocket, facing backups etc as reason not to get carried away, and justifiably so. There seems to be a desperate need go back and justify all the moves and manufacture optimism. It’s not a good look, IMO, but I get it. We’ve become one of those fan bases. Losing will do that to you. But truth is, there won’t be any meaningful answer to any of these questions for a couple years. Not until we have meaningful body to assess the QBs. Like it or not, we have to be patient. But the world isn’t patient these days. People have to defend the cause in social media on a daily basis.
I don't think Giants fans sound insecure. Reading some of your posts since Jones has played certainly make you appear to be the insecure one, though.
+3
The more I think about it, the more I'm sure we're seeing something from Jones we really never seen in a Giants QB before. He's like LT.
How do you know at this point? It's only been a handful of drives thus far.
But I do find it funny that people say QB trumps all in the 2019 draft, then neglect to apply the same logic to the 2018 draft. I know fans tend to be homers, but we simply don't know at this point.
The worst case scenario: Darnold becomes a QB-winning, franchise QB. Barkley is an all-time great, but fails to make a difference (just like LDT, Sanders...so many others.) Josh Allen becomes another Von Miller. The Giants tank again this year but double down on Daniel Jones and not draft a QB next year even with several highly touted ones within their grasp.
If Jones turns out to be the goods, then his draft position would be a moot point. However, if he is less than inspiring, there are a lot of good players in the alternate scenarios who could make us cry into our cereal bowls.
Then they don't get Deandre Baker who might be their starting corner for the next 5-10 years. Baker might end up being a much better player than Josh Allen.
How do you know at this point? It's only been a handful of drives thus far.
But I do find it funny that people say QB trumps all in the 2019 draft, then neglect to apply the same logic to the 2018 draft. I know fans tend to be homers, but we simply don't know at this point.
The worst case scenario: Darnold becomes a QB-winning, franchise QB. Barkley is an all-time great, but fails to make a difference (just like LDT, Sanders...so many others.) Josh Allen becomes another Von Miller. The Giants tank again this year but double down on Daniel Jones and not draft a QB next year even with several highly touted ones within their grasp.
If Jones turns out to be the goods, then his draft position would be a moot point. However, if he is less than inspiring, there are a lot of good players in the alternate scenarios who could make us cry into our cereal bowls.
while this is the true, well thought out, ultimate answer, its not reality. (Unless you have a time machine). The simple question is, "would you trade Allen for Jones today?".
Regardless of the OP’s stated reason for starting this thread it comes across as an “I told you so” thread.
It’s presented as a sincere question for discussion when the true intent is to ask… Are any of you dumb-ass posters who didn’t want Jones ready to admit you were wrong yet?
Similar threads were started last year regarding the Barkley vs. QB choice, but at least then there were plenty of posters who went on record as wanting Barkley. I can’t recall a single BBIer who advocated (prior to the draft) that the Giants should take Jones at 6.
Not to mention the fact that last year posters had the good sense to wait until Barkley acutually accomplished something in games that counted, before starting their "I told you so" threads.
Regardless of the OP’s stated reason for starting this thread it comes across as an “I told you so” thread.
It’s presented as a sincere question for discussion when the true intent is to ask… Are any of you dumb-ass posters who didn’t want Jones ready to admit you were wrong yet?
Similar threads were started last year regarding the Barkley vs. QB choice, but at least then there were plenty of posters who went on record as wanting Barkley. I can’t recall a single BBIer who advocated (prior to the draft) that the Giants should take Jones at 6.
Not to mention the fact that last year posters had the good sense to wait until Barkley acutually accomplished something in games that counted, before starting their "I told you so" threads.
nope...not my intention at all. If someone wants to say, the defenses are vanilla, and Allen still was the better pick, id completely respect that opinion. My point (since I'm the one making it) is that opinions change to such extremes in such a short amount of time, that it gives interesting perspective going forward.
How the Browns doing? And why are you here?
Anyone going to Canton to see induction?
Anyone going to Canton to see induction?
saying you wouldn't trade Allen for Jones today is an over reaction?
Jones has played a total of about 2 quarters of pre-season football and (fumbles aside) has looked pretty good.
How has Josh Allen looked? Beats the hell out of me. Like (I’m guessing) the majority of BBIers who opened this thread, I haven’t seen a single second of a Jags’ pre-season game. So how exactly are we supposed to answer whether we would trade Jones for Allen at this point?
And of course if the Giants had taken Allen at 6, then it’s not like the rest of their draft would have gone exactly the same.
Could they have gotten Jones at 17 or traded up to get him?
If they had to settle for Haskins, Lock or even Rosen would any of those QBs be performing as well in Shurmur’s offense?
Without knowing the answers to these other questions it’s impossible to say whether I would trade Jones for Allen.
And again, it's only been two pre-season games.
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nope...not my intention at all. If someone wants to say, the defenses are vanilla, and Allen still was the better pick, id completely respect that opinion. My point (since I'm the one making it) is that opinions change to such extremes in such a short amount of time, that it gives interesting perspective going forward.
Jones has played a total of about 2 quarters of pre-season football and (fumbles aside) has looked pretty good.
How has Josh Allen looked? Beats the hell out of me. Like (I’m guessing) the majority of BBIers who opened this thread, I haven’t seen a single second of a Jags’ pre-season game. So how exactly are we supposed to answer whether we would trade Jones for Allen at this point?
And of course if the Giants had taken Allen at 6, then it’s not like the rest of their draft would have gone exactly the same.
Could they have gotten Jones at 17 or traded up to get him?
If they had to settle for Haskins, Lock or even Rosen would any of those QBs be performing as well in Shurmur’s offense?
Without knowing the answers to these other questions it’s impossible to say whether I would trade Jones for Allen.
And again, it's only been two pre-season games.
pretty convoluted answer to the simple question. Im assuming you would have had a more definitive answer on draft night...its a yes or no question.
The worst case scenario: Darnold becomes a QB-winning, franchise QB. Barkley is an all-time great, but fails to make a difference (just like LDT, Sanders...so many others.) Josh Allen becomes another Von Miller. The Giants tank again this year but double down on Daniel Jones and not draft a QB next year even with several highly touted ones within their grasp.
Failed to make a difference? I hate when people make this argument. Barry Sanders failed to make a difference? Those Lions teams are 3/4 win teams without him. Calvin Johnson failed to make a difference? Two guys that retired early due to the ineptitude of the franchise. Football is still a team sport. Switch Eli with Stafford and the results aren't different. That isn't a knock on Eli either. Stafford is a practically an Eli clone, inconsistent gunslinger that turns it up in the 4th. The difference being that Eli only had to deal with a completely inept front office for half his career.
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In comment 14534748 Jolly Blue Giant said:
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nope...not my intention at all. If someone wants to say, the defenses are vanilla, and Allen still was the better pick, id completely respect that opinion. My point (since I'm the one making it) is that opinions change to such extremes in such a short amount of time, that it gives interesting perspective going forward.
Jones has played a total of about 2 quarters of pre-season football and (fumbles aside) has looked pretty good.
How has Josh Allen looked? Beats the hell out of me. Like (I’m guessing) the majority of BBIers who opened this thread, I haven’t seen a single second of a Jags’ pre-season game. So how exactly are we supposed to answer whether we would trade Jones for Allen at this point?
And of course if the Giants had taken Allen at 6, then it’s not like the rest of their draft would have gone exactly the same.
Could they have gotten Jones at 17 or traded up to get him?
If they had to settle for Haskins, Lock or even Rosen would any of those QBs be performing as well in Shurmur’s offense?
Without knowing the answers to these other questions it’s impossible to say whether I would trade Jones for Allen.
And again, it's only been two pre-season games.
pretty convoluted answer to the simple question. Im assuming you would have had a more definitive answer on draft night...its a yes or no question.
Then I'm done. Because it's a dumb question.
Obviously few Giants' fans would want to trade Jones for Allen TODAY, because that would leave us without a future QB.
On draft night I would have taken Allen and the Giants then would hopefully have made a move to get their future QB later in the draft.
Darnold
Rosen (TWICE)
The TWO Josh Allen's -- the QB and the pass rusher
or Haskins
They chose Jones (AND Barkley). Time will tell if they're right.
If Jones becomes a top-tier QB and one of the others is maybe a little better, you could argue that having Jones AND Barkley is more valuable. As in, would you rather have had Aikman AND Smith, or just Brett Favre? Or just Steve Young?
I agree....and on draft night I would have taken Allen in a second.
When Gil Brandt Said he saw a mirror of Peyton Manning that meant a lot. Gil has been one of the most successful talent evaluators in NFL history..