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Eli Manning the most important Giant of all time?

Junior22 : 8/18/2019 11:08 am
I do not know if I should laugh now or later.

I can counter Lupica all day on how Eli is not a top 5 Giant of all time or important Giants of all time
Lupica - ( New Window )
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How about this junior22  
18E : 8/18/2019 11:33 am : link
Fuck off.
RE: Dep  
section125 : 8/18/2019 11:34 am : link
In comment 14534805 crick n NC said:
Quote:
He's trying to draw you in with nonsense. Don't take the bait man.


agree walk away - done with this thread. Keeps bring up Jeter when there are likely 4 or 5 more important Yankees all time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Where did I say that slapnuts?  
dep026 : 8/18/2019 11:35 am : link
In comment 14534803 Junior22 said:
Quote:

38 and acting like a teen girl in love with a boy band....GTFO I said Eli has nothing left to prove but any sign of Eli negativity and your feelings get hurt....Grow up and allow another person have an opinion.....We know you are a Jaded eli fan...Your opinion is irrelevant


Wow you know a lot for someone who joined a few weeks ago.... haha. Dupe says whaaaaaat?!?!?!

Great thread by the way. Your original statement showed what this was going to be and I was right. Canít wait til your next gem under a new name.
RE: RE: Dep  
Eman11 : 8/18/2019 11:39 am : link
In comment 14534809 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14534805 crick n NC said:


Quote:


He's trying to draw you in with nonsense. Don't take the bait man.



agree walk away - done with this thread. Keeps bring up Jeter when there are likely 4 or 5 more important Yankees all time.


Agreed.

As much as we all loved Jeter and acknowledge his greatness and importance, he doesn't even crack the greatest Yankees all time top five.
Big difference between Jeter and Eli  
Chip : 8/18/2019 11:41 am : link
Jeter was always surrounded by superstars and that list of superstars is very long. Eli had to suffer with bad offensive lines and terrible drafting by Reese and Ross and football is more of a team game than baseball which on offense is the batter vs the pitcher. stupid analogy
slapnuts is a dead giveaway  
Jints in Carolina : 8/18/2019 11:50 am : link
dupe.
Jeter and Eli do have one thing in common  
ajr2456 : 8/18/2019 11:57 am : link
Both occupied a critical position they weren't good enough to play anymore, made way too much money toward the end and lived off past legacy.
RE: Jeter and Eli do have one thing in common  
crick n NC : 8/18/2019 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14534842 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Both occupied a critical position they weren't good enough to play anymore, made way too much money toward the end and lived off past legacy.


I just don't see why you would make sure a negative point. I don't see the good in it.
RE: Jeter and Eli do have one thing in common  
dep026 : 8/18/2019 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14534842 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Both occupied a critical position they weren't good enough to play anymore, made way too much money toward the end and lived off past legacy.


I guess Jeters year at age 38 was lousy, right?
RE: Big difference between Jeter and Eli  
ajr2456 : 8/18/2019 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14534824 Chip said:
Quote:
Jeter was always surrounded by superstars and that list of superstars is very long. Eli had to suffer with bad offensive lines and terrible drafting by Reese and Ross and football is more of a team game than baseball which on offense is the batter vs the pitcher. stupid analogy


To be fair, Jeter had to deal with pitching rotations comprised of Jared Wright, Kevin Brown, Javier Vazquez, Esteban Loiaza, Kei Igawa, Jose Contreras.

That's pretty comparable to the Giants oline woes.
RE: RE: Jeter and Eli do have one thing in common  
ajr2456 : 8/18/2019 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14534846 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14534842 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Both occupied a critical position they weren't good enough to play anymore, made way too much money toward the end and lived off past legacy.



I guess Jeters year at age 38 was lousy, right?


What's that got to with the fact he shouldn't have been playing shortstop because he was a defensive liability?
Cause sometimes you take a few misplayed  
dep026 : 8/18/2019 12:05 pm : link
Balls in exchange for a guy who was raking all year.
And letís get back to the important  
dep026 : 8/18/2019 12:06 pm : link
Thing.

How shitastic this thread is!!
RE: Cause sometimes you take a few misplayed  
ajr2456 : 8/18/2019 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14534852 dep026 said:
Quote:
Balls in exchange for a guy who was raking all year.


And what about age 36,37, 39, and 40?
Ajr  
crick n NC : 8/18/2019 12:11 pm : link
Does it escape you that the initial point you brought to thread is to demean two great franchise players?

It takes effort on your part to think of and deliver such a point
RE: Ajr  
ajr2456 : 8/18/2019 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14534859 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Does it escape you that the initial point you brought to thread is to demean two great franchise players?

It takes effort on your part to think of and deliver such a point


It's not demeaning them. I love Jeter and Eli for all they accomplished. Pointing out they both hung on too long is wrong?
Itís LT then Eli (Iíll give consideration to Parcells)  
UberAlias : 8/18/2019 12:14 pm : link
Eli was fantastic in both SB runs.
RE: RE: Ajr  
crick n NC : 8/18/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14534862 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14534859 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Does it escape you that the initial point you brought to thread is to demean two great franchise players?

It takes effort on your part to think of and deliver such a point



It's not demeaning them. I love Jeter and Eli for all they accomplished. Pointing out they both hung on too long is wrong?


You said they have one thing in common, basically that they both sucked in the end bad enough to hurt their respective teams. That is the point you chose to bring up instead of several positive comparisons.
RE: Itís LT then Eli (Iíll give consideration to Parcells)  
ajr2456 : 8/18/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14534863 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Eli was fantastic in both SB runs.


If we're counting coaches and executives then I think it might be:

1. Parcells
2. LT
3. Young
4. Eli
RE: RE: RE: Ajr  
ajr2456 : 8/18/2019 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14534866 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 14534862 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 14534859 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Does it escape you that the initial point you brought to thread is to demean two great franchise players?

It takes effort on your part to think of and deliver such a point



It's not demeaning them. I love Jeter and Eli for all they accomplished. Pointing out they both hung on too long is wrong?



You said they have one thing in common, basically that they both sucked in the end bad enough to hurt their respective teams. That is the point you chose to bring up instead of several positive comparisons.


one thing is common does not mean only thing in common.
Again  
crick n NC : 8/18/2019 12:20 pm : link
It is what you chose to bring up in comparing the two players. Oh well, at this point we are beginning to run a circle of conversation.
LT is the best defensive player  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 8/18/2019 12:38 pm : link
He helped revolutionize the way football is played today. His talent allowed Parcells/Belichick the ability to think outside the box and get more creative with the way pass rushing works. LT was the MVP of the 80s Giants, a team that was a consistent threat and won 2 SBs during a stretch where the NFC was ridiculously stacked.

He also happens to be an enormous piece of shit and a despicable human being. He knows how to smile and use his football legacy to avoid being defined by what a garbage human he is, but he really is trash.

So it depends on what you mean by ďMost Important GiantĒ and how you balance your views of LT the player and LT the man. Eli and Frank Gifford are probably the next 2 up.
RE: RE: Itís LT then Eli (Iíll give consideration to Parcells)  
section125 : 8/18/2019 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14534867 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14534863 UberAlias said:


Quote:


Eli was fantastic in both SB runs.



If we're counting coaches and executives then I think it might be:

1. Parcells
2. LT
3. Young
4. Eli


If you are going that route, the Young replaces Parcells as Young hired Parcells.

And then what of Tim Mara who started the Giants?
I never knew that the Giants just came into the league  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 12:53 pm : link
in the 1980s...
The most important Giants of all time is...  
Milton : 8/18/2019 1:08 pm : link
Bennie Friedman. And it's not even close. Just like the most important Yankee of all time is Babe Ruth and it's not even close.
RE: You can make a case for Eli at 2 or 3 in terms of importance  
Ivan15 : 8/18/2019 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14534760 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
but #1 is LT.


Right now, LT is #1. Eli is #2 but ask me again in February.

Optimist I am.

If Eli leads the Giants into another era of great Giants football, he moves up. Even if he is done at the end of the year.
In terms of talent, LOLNo.  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/18/2019 1:14 pm : link
But in terms of importance? I'd put Eli at #2 only behind LT. Eli was around and a very important factor in both SB's of this era, just like LT was the first 2 Giants SB's. LT 1, Eli #2.
RE: RE: Itís LT then Eli (Iíll give consideration to Parcells)  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/18/2019 1:51 pm : link
In comment 14534867 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14534863 UberAlias said:


Quote:


Eli was fantastic in both SB runs.



If we're counting coaches and executives then I think it might be:

1. Parcells
2. LT
3. Young
4. Eli

It's no coincidence LT/Parcells/Belichek all came up together, could have done it without all together.
The
The greatest coaching tree, greatest coach of all time, an greatest player of all time who defined today's NFl.

Throw in mad scientist Gibbs trying to counter LT and the intertwined history Wirth Walsh WCO.
It's not even close....  
Milton : 8/18/2019 1:53 pm : link
Quote:
Most football fans today, including Giants fans, have never heard of Benny Friedman. Thatís too bad because not only was Friedman one of the greatest quarterbacks ever to play in the NFL, he, in fact, revolutionized the pro game by becoming the Leagueís first great passer. There are only four quarterbacks with ties to the Giants in the Hall of Fame: Y.A. Tittle, Fran Tarkenton, Arnie Herber, and Benny Friedman. The two longest tenured quarterbacks with the team Ė Phil Simms and Charlie Conerly Ė are not in the Hall. Yet Friedmanís induction in 2005 went barely noticed by the media and fans. Even the Giants organization did not publicize it much.
Benny Friedman: The QB Who May Have Saved the New York Giants


And here's an archived BBI thread on Benny Friedman - ( New Window )
Lol  
Les in TO : 8/18/2019 2:35 pm : link
Needed that laugh
Funny how...  
BMac : 8/18/2019 3:14 pm : link
...Charlie Conerly's name never comes up in these shitfests.
Thanks for posting the article  
BBelle21 : 8/18/2019 3:46 pm : link
Even though it was to kinda trash Eli Manning. I agree with the article and so do a ton of Giants fans. BBI is wonderful but it does sometimes feel like a foreign land for Giants fans and especially those of us who revere Eli. He may not be the best player, but you can definitely make a strong case that he is the most important. From the SBs, to the records, the streak, the WPMOTY honor, funny commercials and media appearances like Sunday Night, to being a member of so called football royalty. All of it combined has reached everyone.

I frequently mention my family in my posts and thatís because weíre Giants fans through generations. Through the men, women and kids. The most fascinating thing about Eli is how everyone from my grandfather, grandmother, uncles, aunts, etc., we always all stood strongly behind Eli. He NEVER let us down. That is very unique. Some say Lawrence Taylor is the greatest player, but most of the women (and many of the men) in my family canít stomach him anymore. On the field and OFF, Eli is it. The Jeter comparison is common and understandable. Not sure why so many fans here dislike him. I hope Daniel Jones can earn this kind of stature one day. But it wonít be easy.
RE: Funny how...  
BBelle21 : 8/18/2019 3:48 pm : link
In comment 14535075 BMac said:
Quote:
...Charlie Conerly's name never comes up in these shitfests.


Well, it possible Eliís new son is named after Charlie Conerly. If he ever plays QB for the Giants, Charlie Conerlyís name will come up a bit more. Which would be pretty cool.
RE: Lol  
dep026 : 8/18/2019 3:48 pm : link
In comment 14535034 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Needed that laugh


Someone get serious hurt or have a life threatening illness?
You youngins  
joeinpa : 8/18/2019 4:56 pm : link
Need to research the history of the New York Giants before you anoint with certainty Eli or any other recent player as greatest Giants anything.

Not saying he wouldnít be under consideration for that honor, but there was a lot of Giants football prior to Eli.
RE: You youngins  
Diver_Down : 8/18/2019 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14535182 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Need to research the history of the New York Giants before you anoint with certainty Eli or any other recent player as greatest Giants anything.

Not saying he wouldnít be under consideration for that honor, but there was a lot of Giants football prior to Eli.


Does this work for you?
NY Giants Mt. Rushmore - ( New Window )
For 15 years  
snumber6 : 8/18/2019 6:07 pm : link
Every week the coaches could count on a QB to achieve without any worry about the game plan, the opposition or the physical or mental ability of the QB ... Gave a lot of time to insure other matters will be taken care of ...
That importance to a coaching staff is probably the best the Giants ever had ...
The discussion should've ended when I said Benny Friedman  
Milton : 8/18/2019 6:54 pm : link
How can you argue that any of the players that followed were more important than him (or as important as him)? The guy revolutionized the passing game in all of football. He was the New York Football Giants during his years with the team.
RE: For 15 years  
Les in TO : 8/18/2019 6:56 pm : link
In comment 14535244 snumber6 said:
Quote:
Every week the coaches could count on a QB to achieve without any worry about the game plan, the opposition or the physical or mental ability of the QB ... Gave a lot of time to insure other matters will be taken care of ...
That importance to a coaching staff is probably the best the Giants ever had ...
Eli was reliable and durable but his actual output was very hot and cold over the years. There were some brilliant moments and horrid stinkers.
Sigh - I could give two craps about  
Dave on the UWS : 8/18/2019 7:25 pm : link
what Eli did when he was 27 and 31. It has NO relevancy in this year. Yeah, heís one of the greatest Giants ever! BUT, the organization would be better off NOW, turning the page.
I don't need to read this thread  
arniefez : 8/18/2019 8:21 pm : link
Anyone over 55 years old who roots for the Giants knows exactly who is the #1 NY Giant in any and/or every positive way. #2 is closer to #20 than he is to #1. You want to discuss Eli being #2 since 1965 when I really started going to games you'd have a good case. I can't speak to pre 1965 when it comes to #2. But there is 0.0 discussion who #1 is period.
Jeter never  
tikimvp : 8/18/2019 8:47 pm : link
Dragged a shit team to a championship like Eli did in 2011. That was a 4 win team if not for Eli. Jeter played on loaded teams with a payroll 2x the size of the rest of the league.
Simms needs to be in this discussion...  
bw in dc : 8/18/2019 8:58 pm : link
he was a huge part of the Camelot Era. And he played when the NFC was an absolute beast in the '80s with the Skins, Bears, and 9ers. The Giants were really a pretender until Simms emerged as the leader of the offense.

He, unfortunately, gets screwed by the fact he got hurt in 1990 when he was having a sensational year before the injury against Buffalo...But I refuse to hold that against him.

Without him, there is no Camelot. And that carries significant weight.





Most important Giants of all time?  
FStubbs : 8/18/2019 9:13 pm : link
LT is #1 but Eli vs Frank Gifford, pick one.

The discussion starts at #4.
LT #1  
Torrag : 8/19/2019 1:00 am : link
Manning in the distance at #2.
RE: Simms needs to be in this discussion...  
GiantEgo : 8/19/2019 8:28 am : link
In comment 14535357 bw in dc said:
Quote:
he was a huge part of the Camelot Era. And he played when the NFC was an absolute beast in the '80s with the Skins, Bears, and 9ers. The Giants were really a pretender until Simms emerged as the leader of the offense.

He, unfortunately, gets screwed by the fact he got hurt in 1990 when he was having a sensational year before the injury against Buffalo...But I refuse to hold that against him.

Without him, there is no Camelot. And that carries significant weight.






I totally agree with all of this. It was very difficult in the pre salary cap era to break into the top tier of teams. There was no such thing as worst to first as is common now.

Phil Simms never had a great wide receiver. He also played in the pre climate change old Giants stadium which was always very windy and cold and still compiled huge numbers.

The most important Giants after the 50's-60's were Simms/Young/Parcells.

GiantEgo...  
bw in dc : 8/19/2019 11:02 am : link
I was going to mention GY and Parcells. And even Rozelle for stepping in and brokering the deal for GY.

But I was thinking the OP meant players.

The Giants has a championship caliber D for a long time actually in those early '80s. However, it wasn't until Simms found himself that this organization became an NFL power. Not recognizing that is a poor understanding of the history here...
Phil Simms is my favorite Giant player ever  
arniefez : 8/19/2019 11:08 am : link
He is not in the discussion for #1. Top 10? Sure. #1? Not even in the discussion and he's behind Eli on the top 10 list too.
RE: Phil Simms is my favorite Giant player ever  
bw in dc : 8/19/2019 11:47 am : link
In comment 14535725 arniefez said:
Quote:
He is not in the discussion for #1. Top 10? Sure. #1? Not even in the discussion and he's behind Eli on the top 10 list too.


He's not in the discussion because people aren't thinking clearly... ;)
I'm not even sure what "important" means.  
Bill L : 8/19/2019 12:19 pm : link
What the hell?

The most important Giants were the owners, since they paid for the damn thing. I suppose the Gm's would be second since they made sure that there was someone to step on the field. I might put the groundskeepers third in terms of importance.
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