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Daniel Jones' first pass after the fumbled snap

ColHowPepper : 8/18/2019 2:07 pm
This came at 1st and 10 after the Giants regained possession after the Jones turnover, at about 12.44 left in 2Q. I've seen a number of posters, including Eric@BBI, assert that he left the pass short, others said similar things in different threads, and some posited this as a weak-armed throw to the sideline sticks.

When I watched real time Friday night--and multiple replays re-watched just now confirms my original view--Jones threw that ball away, essentially into the dirt at Tate's feet, so it would be uncatchable. Joseph had tight coverage and leverage, sideline just off Tate's shoulder, and imo if Jones had thrown a catchable ball it was a possible pic if not a pic 6. I think he threw it away.

That said, Jones did not appear to look right at all, seemed to stare down Tate at the left sideline and as he did so tapped the ball two or three times, so he was a big factor in the coverage Joseph had on Tate.

So, to me, a mixed bad and bag, but not in the way some posters have characterized it.

Too, I'll reiterate a point I made on Saturday: after the strip sack, I think Shurmur made it a point of emphasis to give Jones some very high percentage completion passes, short and dump off type, to get his head straight, and Jones did. But I give kudos for Shurmur for addressing Jones' head in coaching moments.
That is how it looked to me at first glance.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/18/2019 2:18 pm : link
I'd like to see the all 22 to get a better feel for that.
I havenít seen it again since Friday  
Strahan91 : 8/18/2019 2:19 pm : link
but I thought he was expecting Tate to come back quicker out of his route when I first saw the play live
though given Jones being locked in on Tate  
ColHowPepper : 8/18/2019 2:23 pm : link
or apparently so, unsure whether, even if there was an open receiver elsewhere, whether he would have seen it. But to your point on the all 22, I wonder whether some of Shurmur's scripting at this stage of the rookie's career has predominant long looks.
I saw that play twice  
Jay on the Island : 8/18/2019 2:32 pm : link
IMO Jones was essentially throwing the ball away.
91, very possibly  
ColHowPepper : 8/18/2019 2:36 pm : link
and that too goes to robbie's all 22: the view from the replays didn't capture Tate and Joseph coming into the viewable monitor screen until after the ball came out, so not possible to decipher what was going on in Tate's route.

And, I was wrong, watching it again just now: Joseph had leverage from inside out, meaning he would had the better angle on a catchable ball (and all the more reason for Jones to throw it away).

None of this is to exalt Jones' play, just to correct what I saw as erroneous takes.

As to how to assess his play, I'm with UberAlias: it's just too soon to form firm conclusions.
Throw away  
Mdgiantsfan : 8/18/2019 2:51 pm : link
I thought when I saw it live and during replays of the game that it was a throw away. But aside from staring Tate down I thought he shouldíve went to the RB in the flat. Couldíve at least picked up 4-5 yards instead of the incompletion.
RE: I saw that play twice  
Nine-Tails : 8/18/2019 3:01 pm : link
In comment 14535029 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
IMO Jones was essentially throwing the ball away.


Yep bouncing it was the right play. Those who call it a lack of arm just want to find something to put against him.
Face facts he is a bust  
superspynyg : 8/18/2019 3:04 pm : link
Any rookie Qb who fumbles the ball twice (even if one was not his fault) and then throws his next pass so itís not intersected is a huge bust.

Red flags everywhere
It's perfectly fine to lock in on a WR out route  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/18/2019 3:09 pm : link
It's usually a 1 on 1 route vs a CB.
Jay, Nine, Mdgiants  
ColHowPepper : 8/18/2019 3:10 pm : link
Jay and Nine: we agree! The narrative that emerged in the post-game shortly after was that DJ couldn't get the ball out to the receiver and even that it was knocked down because thrown (weakly) short. Aside from his locking in to Tate, his throwing it away was good judgment.

Now, Mdgiants, you are absolutely correct: Perkins was in the flat--Jones would have had to look off Tate and look at a flatter angle to his right--and wide open, though a S (or LB) had 'coverage' about 8 yards due south, so likely a short gain unless Perkins could have juked him.

A bit more evidence that Jones' vision/seeing the field needs work.
to his left, not to his right  
ColHowPepper : 8/18/2019 3:11 pm : link
.
Outside of the two fumbles, loved the performance.  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/18/2019 3:12 pm : link
Accuracy, arm strength, field vision, and ball placement is all very impressive, especially for a 22 year who has just played in 2 pre-season games.
RE: Face facts he is a bust  
Canton : 8/18/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14535065 superspynyg said:
Quote:
Any rookie Qb who fumbles the ball twice (even if one was not his fault) and then throws his next pass so itís not intersected is a huge bust.

Red flags everywhere


Especially, when he goes 8 for 8 with a TD, after his last fumble. Bench him for 2 years.
Not to go far off the topic  
chiro56 : 8/18/2019 3:48 pm : link
I noticed on the strip , DJ is quick as a cat in reacting to the pickup and tackling the guy from behind. Not many would make that play.
aside  
ColHowPepper : 8/18/2019 3:51 pm : link
from the sarcasm in many threads in response to over-reactions to the negatives, the fact is as some have pointed out in those threads that Jones' play far surpasses that of Nassib, Lauletta, and Webb in their exhibition stints, though Nassib did have a few good looking series during which he rifled the ball in accurately.

We should expect that from a #6 Overall compared to 4th (traded up to get Nassib), 3rd and 4th rounders.

As also much noted, we haven't yet seen any controlled roll-outs and RPOs--and we may well not, given that DJ in all likelihood will not be the starter, and such plays will be designed more for the rookie than Eli, who can probably execute some but not all of Shurmur's tricks for his QBs.
chiro56!!  
ColHowPepper : 8/18/2019 3:55 pm : link
he was and showed good form doing it, brought a much bigger guy right down.

But I cringed, and I bet half of 'Jints Central' did too, imagining torn soft tissue in his upper body. Can't imagine Eli making even a serious attempt at a tackle. Did DJ and Alonzo get Jabrill trophies for those?
Who cares about his pass after the fumble  
joeinpa : 8/18/2019 8:53 pm : link
If it was a bad pass, so what. He had some negative momentum going after the fumble, it happens. Pt is, he bounced back
point of the thread  
ColHowPepper : 8/18/2019 9:21 pm : link
joeinpa is that it was not a 'bad' pass: he threw it away to avoid potential pick
I thought he threw it where  
.McL. : 8/18/2019 9:39 pm : link
It would not get picked...

Not exactly a throw away, if Tate made a great play on it so be it. But more concerned with getting the ball out not getting a pick, and not having intentional grounding called.

RE: Face facts he is a bust  
uconngiant : 8/19/2019 1:23 am : link
In comment 14535065 superspynyg said:
Quote:
Any rookie Qb who fumbles the ball twice (even if one was not his fault) and then throws his next pass so itís not intersected is a huge bust.

Red flags everywhere


Moron who needs to drink less
^^^ I'm pretty sure that  
ChaChing : 8/19/2019 2:38 am : link
RE: Jay, Nine, Mdgiants  
Jimmy Googs : 8/19/2019 6:35 am : link
In comment 14535070 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
Jay and Nine: we agree! The narrative that emerged in the post-game shortly after was that DJ couldn't get the ball out to the receiver and even that it was knocked down because thrown (weakly) short. Aside from his locking in to Tate, his throwing it away was good judgment.

Now, Mdgiants, you are absolutely correct: Perkins was in the flat--Jones would have had to look off Tate and look at a flatter angle to his right--and wide open, though a S (or LB) had 'coverage' about 8 yards due south, so likely a short gain unless Perkins could have juked him.

A bit more evidence that Jones' vision/seeing the field needs work.


Agree. He basically threw it away because if the tight coverage and angle.

Was there some other conspiracy theory going on earlier that the throw was short therefore he has a weak arm or something?
Jimmy, yes  
ColHowPepper : 8/19/2019 7:45 am : link
a number of posters stating, essentially, that he couldn't get the pass to the Tate at the sideline on a rope
Seemed more like a rushed throw where he saw the defense  
Jimmy Googs : 8/19/2019 8:03 am : link
closing mid-throw and he decided to put it where no damage could be done.

Second strong outing throwing the ball and making decisions. Having turnovers in the preseason that you can learn from is what we want. There are going to be other mistakes and hopefully they all go to building Jones up versus the opposite.

BBI cannot help themselves sometimes
sometimes ?  
ColHowPepper : 8/19/2019 9:09 am : link
(: BBI thou are a many splendored thing! lol
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