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For Eric: Jones vs. Darnold

Stan in LA : 8/18/2019 8:12 pm
If you could have either one today, who ya got?
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I was not a big Darnold fan in the year he was drafted  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/18/2019 10:34 pm : link
and I still se a lot of the things that concerned me in his game

I think Jones is much more of the Giants prototype -- toughness, size and skill wise -- and I think he is going to turn out to be the more durable of the two of them
There is no argument. The bottom line is DG has had 4 first round  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2019 10:37 pm : link
picks in 2 years and he picked his rainmakers.

Make it rain otherwise he will be judged poorly...
I think Darnold has the skills  
dep026 : 8/18/2019 10:38 pm : link
To be an amazing QB. I think a lot of people are down on him cause he had bad games on a putrid team last year.

But give me Barkley and Jones everyday of the week and 2x on Sundays 😉
Its not just Jones vs Darnold, its the whole cpmparison  
PatersonPlank : 8/18/2019 10:39 pm : link
Darnold + whoever (Williams?), vs Barkley + Jones.
To really evaluate  
V.I.G. : 8/18/2019 10:46 pm : link
It would be something like

Barkley
Jones
Lorenzo
-vs-
Darnold
Royce Freeman
Josh Allen

On that basis, I like where we are
^  
V.I.G. : 8/18/2019 10:50 pm : link
I should say, I like what DG has done
They both have lots of potential  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/19/2019 6:35 am : link
and both are on their respective rookie contracts. I think there is much to be determined.

One thing that will impact how they are viewed is how well the front offices build the teams around them and maximize their abilities as well as how they are coached.

Ultimately in the NY market, it may come down to which one delivers in the big moment and whose team has the more success.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/19/2019 7:42 am : link
Barkley has to factor in. If you say you'd prefer Darnold, that doesn't just mean Darnold... it also means no Barkley.

Of course, that DOES mean Josh Allen (Kentucky) or anyone else who was available @ 6 in this past draft.

In any event... I think I like what we wound up with so far.
No micky  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/19/2019 7:49 am : link
two preseason games doesn't "do it for me."

Two full 16-game regular seasons wouldn't "do it for me."

I am merely saying so far, so damn good. I didn't expect him to look this good.
I like both...  
guineaT : 8/19/2019 7:57 am : link
And I also like Haskins. Maybe Iím just easy to please. Nah. All could develop into good players.
RE: I wasn't terribly impressed with Darnold last year.  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/19/2019 8:00 am : link
In comment 14535322 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
People are already talking about him as a franchise QB. Maybe it was the games I saw, but I didn't come away thinking he was going to set the league on fire. And I get he is young & will probably improve, but that's my opinion. Now expecting fanofthejets to kill me.

He already has repeatedly exhibited the penchant to wilt at big moments at the end of the game. He's the Antieli. Just compare and contrast him to Mayfield in the Browns game.
RE: RE: I wasn't terribly impressed with Darnold last year.  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/19/2019 8:02 am : link
In comment 14535524 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14535322 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


People are already talking about him as a franchise QB. Maybe it was the games I saw, but I didn't come away thinking he was going to set the league on fire. And I get he is young & will probably improve, but that's my opinion. Now expecting fanofthejets to kill me.


He already has repeatedly exhibited the penchant to wilt at big moments at the end of the game. He's the Antieli. Just compare and contrast him to Mayfield in the Browns game.

He melts down in the 4th quarter like Davis Webb in a preseason game XD
I interpreted the question differently than most  
armstead98 : 8/19/2019 8:29 am : link
If you had to pick one QB right now of the two, who do you take? Nothing about Barkley or the past or who would you pick if you could redo the draft.

If the Jets called and offered Darnold straight up for Jones, what do you say?

I think I say no, which is kinda crazy.
Letís hope this discussion becomes another Mays vs Mantle  
Spider56 : 8/19/2019 8:56 am : link
And lasts another 10 years ... with the same outcome, no clear winner.
RE: The argument..  
Brown_Hornet : 8/19/2019 9:35 am : link
In comment 14535428 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
should be Darnold vs. Barkley and for right now, Barkley is winning hands, feet and any other body part down.

If Darnold is just another guy, we will have made the right decision regardless of what Jones pans out to be.
yup
Two preseason games  
Gjfro : 8/19/2019 9:44 am : link
don't matter much but it should be unanimous that Jones has shown as much and more than anyone could have expected in these first two preseason games
Way, way, way  
Beer Man : 8/19/2019 10:05 am : link
too early for those kinds of comparisons. Same questions were asked years ago with Eli, Ben, and Philip. They are still NFL starters 15 years later and its still not answered.
If we drafted Darnold, it would have changed our draft position  
twostepgiants : 8/19/2019 10:06 am : link
There is no way the Giants do not start Sam Darnold at 1-7 and heading into the bye week. Darnold would have played and went through rookie struggles and the Giants likely would not have finished as strong as they did. (Plus there would have been Saquon Barkley on the team)

IMO there is a high probability the Giants land higher than the 6 pick and possibly even up to the 1-2 pick. Who knows.

If I had to guess the Giants may even have walked with Quinnen Williams.
Iím sorry - No Saquon Barkley  
twostepgiants : 8/19/2019 10:07 am : link
On the team so the record down the stretch would defiantly be worse.
RE: Iím sorry - No Saquon Barkley  
Jay on the Island : 8/19/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14535610 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
On the team so the record down the stretch would defiantly be worse.

Hard to argue with that. The Giants would have been 3-13 or 4-12 at best had they taken Darnold instead of Barkley.
RE: Darnold 7 days a week...  
rnargi : 8/19/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14535326 Tesla said:
Quote:
and twice on Sundays.

If you think otherwise I dare you to find a single Jets fan who'd swap Darnold for Jones at this point.


Do you think there are any Jets fans who would swap Darnold AND Williams for Jones AND Barkley?
What I love about Darnold  
UberAlias : 8/19/2019 10:51 am : link
Is his ability to extend plays, make play down field on the move, and make plays at angles when you can't step into your throws, etc. In this area Darnold is exception which in today's game is huge. I know Jones can run, but in this area I don't believe he's Darnold's peer. Not saying he can't, but in his body of work this hasn't jumped out at me. He's more of a stay in the pocket or take off running guy.
I love what I've seen from Jones in the PS  
UberAlias : 8/19/2019 10:57 am : link
But thus far he's been able to stand in a clean pocket and step into his throws. I need to see him extend plays, make plays under pressure, throw with velocity/accuracy on the move /at angles or when you can't step into your throws. This is what he's going to need to do to win games in the playoffs or against Philly/Dallas. I'm anxious to see.
PFF just ranked the QBs heading into 2019  
BSIMatt : 8/19/2019 11:42 am : link
And they ranked Darnold 25th best quarterback heading into the season.

I didn't realize that one of Darnold's issues, going back to USC was throwing deep. Apparently that's something he's struggled with.

Quote:

Darnold is excellent at throwing with accuracy and anticipation at the short and intermediate level while complementing his in-pocket play with out-of-structure magic that was on display in the early going at USC. He is primed to take a big step forward, regaining his strong play on passes up to 20 yards. The big question for Darnold is the deep ball where he was inconsistent in college and last year posted a passer rating of just 42.3 on 20-plus yard passes
Darnold  
PaulN : 8/19/2019 11:50 am : link
Sat the first 2 pre season games, played the next 2, he was 11 of 14 for 114 yards and a td. I would say Jones has looked as good as Darnold at the same point. A great start by both.
RE: Darnold  
Strahan91 : 8/19/2019 11:54 am : link
In comment 14535802 PaulN said:
Quote:
Sat the first 2 pre season games, played the next 2, he was 11 of 14 for 114 yards and a td. I would say Jones has looked as good as Darnold at the same point. A great start by both.

No he didn't. Those are his preseason stats this year. He was 13/18 for 96 yards and a TD in his first preseason game. Second one he was 8/11 for 62 yards, no TD's and 1 Int. I watched both those games and Jones has been more impressive than Darnold was.
Anyone  
PaulN : 8/19/2019 12:03 pm : link
With a brain understands Darnold played a season of regulation football. That makes him far more prepared, it does not make him a better player either. The eye test tells me both have good tools, over time we will learn who we would rather have, some smug people act like Darnold won 10 games, he didn't and looked bad at times. So there is no wise answer, it is a stupid question with no answer.
Not So Much What Jones Has Done; It's What He Hasn't Done,  
clatterbuck : 8/19/2019 12:07 pm : link
and that's stink. So far, he's shown the so-called experts who ripped him, the pick, his arm strength, who called him a "third-round talent," are either fools, were pursuing an agenda, or both. I wanted Rosen which shows how much I know. But I also know what I don't know. Jones, may, indeed, provide another cautionary tale about buying in to conventional "wisdom" perpetrated by talking heads and internet nerds.
RE: I interpreted the question differently than most  
Stan in LA : 8/19/2019 12:30 pm : link
In comment 14535544 armstead98 said:
Quote:
If you had to pick one QB right now of the two, who do you take? Nothing about Barkley or the past or who would you pick if you could redo the draft.

If the Jets called and offered Darnold straight up for Jones, what do you say?

I think I say no, which is kinda crazy.



Yes, that's the intended question. If the Jets called and offered that trade today, would you take that?
RE: RE: I interpreted the question differently than most  
figgy2989 : 8/19/2019 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14535878 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 14535544 armstead98 said:


Quote:


If you had to pick one QB right now of the two, who do you take? Nothing about Barkley or the past or who would you pick if you could redo the draft.

If the Jets called and offered Darnold straight up for Jones, what do you say?

I think I say no, which is kinda crazy.




Yes, that's the intended question. If the Jets called and offered that trade today, would you take that?


Tough call as they are essentially the same age and Darnold has a year of experience under his belt. If you are saying straight up and we still have Barkley, then that is definitely something to think about.
'That makes him(Darnold) far more prepared...  
Torrag : 8/19/2019 12:39 pm : link
I'm not so sure. If you take both players development back to their grass roots Jones has played a helluva lot more QB to date than Darnold has. He's also had far superior and in depth coaching for the position imo.
RE: RE: Darnold has won regular season...  
odunde : 8/19/2019 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14535387 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14535372 bw in dc said:


Quote:


football games and played very well the last quarter of the season when the fog started to clear as a rookie. And in NY. So there is a real proven value there.

This isn't even close. Jones is still a dream with fingers crossed right now...



Perhaps. But I saw what I saw in the first two preseason games.


I don't have a strong opinion on this beyond disliking Darnold because he played for USC, but it is fun seeing Eric this excited about a giants qb after the last few years where he has (justifiably) expressed a lot of frustration with this team.
RE: RE: RE: Darnold has won regular season...  
Jay on the Island : 8/19/2019 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14535927 odunde said:
Quote:


I don't have a strong opinion on this beyond disliking Darnold because he played for USC, but it is fun seeing Eric this excited about a giants qb after the last few years where he has (justifiably) expressed a lot of frustration with this team.

I mentioned this a few weeks ago. It appears that Eric is very enthusiastic about the current state of the team. Last year he was very down on the team. I've never seen Eric that pessimistic and bitter. It's great to see him enjoying football again.

It was hard to remain optimistic last year especially when the Giants passed on all those QB in the 2018 draft and there was fear that they would waste Barkley's prime trying to find Eli's replacement.
No one can make this choice before seeing how Jones performs  
GeofromNJ : 8/19/2019 1:10 pm : link
after a few games facing 1st string defenses. He had yet to do this. It's way too soon to know whether Darnold has improved and Jones can peform at the NFL level. I say this liking what I've seen of Jones, but I haven't seen him face 1st string NFL defenses who are doing everything they can to confuse him, pressure him, and deny him the ability to execute the offense.
i'm cautiously  
FranchiseQB : 8/19/2019 2:09 pm : link
optimistic about Jones. Let's not lose our minds, though. he is essentially playing like a robot. Midseason game action will require him to play at a higher level and make pro reads, winning in the pocket.
With all honesty  
BSIMatt : 8/19/2019 2:30 pm : link
I'd take playing like a robot as high praise. That's one of the descriptions I always used with Peyton,(not trying to compare Jones to Peyton) but that Peyton looked like a machine playing football. That was actually one of his "knocks" coming out, being a bit robotic...I'm not sure why that would get cast as a knock...it seemed to serve him extremely well..and one of the best things about Peyton is he pretty much knew where the ball was going 90% of the time before the ball was ever snapped.
RE: RE: Darnold 7 days a week...  
fanofthejets : 8/19/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14535650 rnargi said:
Quote:
In comment 14535326 Tesla said:


Quote:


and twice on Sundays.

If you think otherwise I dare you to find a single Jets fan who'd swap Darnold for Jones at this point.



Do you think there are any Jets fans who would swap Darnold AND Williams for Jones AND Barkley?


Well no. Because how would that make us a better team? Now Jones may end up a top 5 QB who knows, but right now the Jets are more confident and secure with Darnold. Of course there is still uncertainty in Darnolds future but there's more uncertainty with Jones, simply because he wasn't as highly regarded a QB prospect out of college and hasn't even played a regular season snap yet. Though he's looked really great in pre-season. Very impressive, accurate, poised. The fumbles don't matter that will be sorted out easily

Throwing in Williams and Barkley doesn't move the needle. Now we're loaded at RB but take on more ? at the QB position and our defense takes a hit. Plus I don't want to trade quality assets for a RB with how easy it is to find one in the mid to late rounds of the draft or free agency
RE: RE: RE: Darnold 7 days a week...  
BSIMatt : 8/19/2019 2:43 pm : link
In comment 14536038 fanofthejets said:
Quote:
In comment 14535650 rnargi said:


Quote:


In comment 14535326 Tesla said:


Quote:


and twice on Sundays.

If you think otherwise I dare you to find a single Jets fan who'd swap Darnold for Jones at this point.



Do you think there are any Jets fans who would swap Darnold AND Williams for Jones AND Barkley?



Well no. Because how would that make us a better team? Now Jones may end up a top 5 QB who knows, but right now the Jets are more confident and secure with Darnold. Of course there is still uncertainty in Darnolds future but there's more uncertainty with Jones, simply because he wasn't as highly regarded a QB prospect out of college and hasn't even played a regular season snap yet. Though he's looked really great in pre-season. Very impressive, accurate, poised. The fumbles don't matter that will be sorted out easily

Throwing in Williams and Barkley doesn't move the needle. Now we're loaded at RB but take on more ? at the QB position and our defense takes a hit. Plus I don't want to trade quality assets for a RB with how easy it is to find one in the mid to late rounds of the draft or free agency



[quote] there's more uncertainty with Jones, simply because he wasn't as highly regarded a QB prospect out of college[quote]

Splitting hairs there...that's all out the window now, what they did in college means absolutely nothing anymore.
RE: Gotta remember if we have Darnold we don't have Saquon  
fanofthejets : 8/19/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14535333 Blue21 said:
Quote:
. As Eric said I don't want to jinx it but right now no disapointment.


You wouldn't have Saquon last year. You'd have rookie Darnold and would have to sunset Eli Manning. This year you need a running back so you sign Bell. You're not trading Beckham because you don't strip your young QB of the leagues best receiver in year two. Now in the draft you don't need a QB so you take Josh Allen. So now you have your QB, RB, WR and pass rusher
Darnold's issue  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 8/19/2019 2:47 pm : link
continues to be turnovers.
RE: RE: RE: Darnold 7 days a week...  
Jay on the Island : 8/19/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14536038 fanofthejets said:
Quote:


Throwing in Williams and Barkley doesn't move the needle. Now we're loaded at RB but take on more ? at the QB position and our defense takes a hit. Plus I don't want to trade quality assets for a RB with how easy it is to find one in the mid to late rounds of the draft or free agency

If it's so easy to find quality RB's in the mid to late rounds why did the Jets feel the need to give Le'Veon Bell a 4 year $52.5 million dollar contract? They could have use that cap room to sign young OL like Trent Brown, Dary Williams, Mitch Morse, Ja'Wuan James, etc.
RE: RE: Gotta remember if we have Darnold we don't have Saquon  
BSIMatt : 8/19/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14536053 fanofthejets said:
Quote:
In comment 14535333 Blue21 said:


Quote:


. As Eric said I don't want to jinx it but right now no disapointment.



You wouldn't have Saquon last year. You'd have rookie Darnold and would have to sunset Eli Manning. This year you need a running back so you sign Bell. You're not trading Beckham because you don't strip your young QB of the leagues best receiver in year two. Now in the draft you don't need a QB so you take Josh Allen. So now you have your QB, RB, WR and pass rusher


That's a quantum leap right there.
RE: RE: RE: Gotta remember if we have Darnold we don't have Saquon  
Jay on the Island : 8/19/2019 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14536065 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
In comment 14536053 fanofthejets said:


Quote:


In comment 14535333 Blue21 said:


Quote:


. As Eric said I don't want to jinx it but right now no disapointment.



You wouldn't have Saquon last year. You'd have rookie Darnold and would have to sunset Eli Manning. This year you need a running back so you sign Bell. You're not trading Beckham because you don't strip your young QB of the leagues best receiver in year two. Now in the draft you don't need a QB so you take Josh Allen. So now you have your QB, RB, WR and pass rusher



That's a quantum leap right there.

He is suggesting that the Giants should have kept a player in Beckham who didn't want to be here. A player that many feel quit on the team last year and disrespected the head coach. Not to mention they wouldn't have Jabrill Peppers, Dexter Lawrence, Oshane Ximines, or Golden Tate in this scenario.

Also had they made the win now move of signing Bell they would be gambling on winning the next two years. The Jets will be lucky to get two good years out of Bell with all the touches he has already accumulated during his career.
Darnold can make elite throws  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 8/19/2019 7:56 pm : link
he has that ability to make the big boy plays that often decide a ball-game. That's why he went early and that's what he flashed at times as a rookie.

Daniel Jones has made some nice throws this pre-season and shown off a generally better than expected arm. His touch and accuracy have been so damn nice to see, and gives me hope. But I need to see more to say his pure arm talent is Darnold level.

Less athletic/Better arm Alex Smith vs. Jay Cutler with an actual heart, that's how I'm looking at it now until either guy steps up or drops off.

I'd still take Darnold right now because of the ceiling, but it's just impossible to answer at this moment. But considering the equation is really Jones/Barkley vs. Darnold/top RB talent, it's hard not to lean towards our direction considering what Barkley proved last year.

I was extremely low on darnold coming out of college  
huygens20 : 8/19/2019 8:42 pm : link
I had

mayfield
Gap
Rosen
Big gap
Darnold


Darnold in college couldnít read defenses for shit. And his magic throws into double and triple coverage was something people touted as a skill but itís really a detriment. The guy doesnít have a high football iq and constantly threw into coverage. And he did it last year too.

I still think heís fools gold
This is such a dumb thread.  
justafan : 8/19/2019 8:49 pm : link
Post this again in two years.
RE: Darnold can make elite throws  
BestFeature : 8/19/2019 10:38 pm : link
In comment 14536273 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
he has that ability to make the big boy plays that often decide a ball-game. That's why he went early and that's what he flashed at times as a rookie.

Daniel Jones has made some nice throws this pre-season and shown off a generally better than expected arm. His touch and accuracy have been so damn nice to see, and gives me hope. But I need to see more to say his pure arm talent is Darnold level.

Less athletic/Better arm Alex Smith vs. Jay Cutler with an actual heart, that's how I'm looking at it now until either guy steps up or drops off.

I'd still take Darnold right now because of the ceiling, but it's just impossible to answer at this moment. But considering the equation is really Jones/Barkley vs. Darnold/top RB talent, it's hard not to lean towards our direction considering what Barkley proved last year.


A better arm Alex Smith is an excellent QB, IMO. That's not a knock.
I wasnít trying to knock him  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 8/20/2019 8:55 am : link
A better arm Alex Smith would be ideal next to a RB like Saquon.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/20/2019 9:23 am : link
All I will say is this: if Daniel Jones was on the Cowboys, Redskins, or Eagles, and he did what he did in the first two preseason games, I would be worried as a Giants fan.

Too early? Of course. Again, it would be too early with two full seasons under his belt (see innumerable "franchise" QBs who disappeared after a fast start).

But you have to go with what you see.
What you want to see from a rookie QB  
mrvax : 8/20/2019 1:19 pm : link
We saw some good Darnold plays last year. Talent is there. He now has to cut down on bad plays and become more consistent. Gotta be over 60% completion this year and cut down on the INTs.
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