Charlie Weis on Sirius re Preseason games & his solution

so let’s not discuss how realistic this is. Rather, can we address his reasoning and whether you agree or not?

this, they really need to make sure that more practice time is provided.

I have no reason why, but joint practices this year are down across the board vs. the previous few years. Combining less hard practices with fewer preseason action is a recipe to continue to see crappy football the first month of the season.

Some coaches like Nagy don't like preseason. Other coaches like Andy Reid and Fangio see the value in it. Nothing Weis is saying is unique nor is he the first one to come up with this. This has been talked about for a couple of years now.

I think they should increase the number of preseason practices. Return it to the way it was prior to the most recent CBA. Bring back two-a-days.

To fill in for pre-season games they need to have extended practice and more joint practices with other teams.

Overall an 18 game season is way better then 16 as far as fandom goes.

And add in a second bye.

training camp practices not preseason practices.

and make the season 18 games. The players' salaries get adjusted and the owners get more meaningful games. Add a second bye week into the schedule for the extended season which also gives the NFL an extra week of revenue. This also bumps the playoffs back one week and puts the Super Bowl the Sunday before Presidents' Day giving a lot of people the day off after. It seems so simple. Everybody wins.

In comment 14535620 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

and make the season 18 games. The players' salaries get adjusted and the owners get more meaningful games. Add a second bye week into the schedule for the extended season which also gives the NFL an extra week of revenue. This also bumps the playoffs back one week and puts the Super Bowl the Sunday before Presidents' Day giving a lot of people the day off after. It seems so simple. Everybody wins.

Like.

In comment 14535620 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

and make the season 18 games. The players' salaries get adjusted and the owners get more meaningful games. Add a second bye week into the schedule for the extended season which also gives the NFL an extra week of revenue. This also bumps the playoffs back one week and puts the Super Bowl the Sunday before Presidents' Day giving a lot of people the day off after. It seems so simple. Everybody wins.

That makes the most sense if they did it this way. Also increase the number of training camp practices and the size of the roster to 56-58.

would just shorten the preseason to two games, or possibly eliminate it completely. I would also add a second bye as others have suggested. I wouldn't extend the season to 18 games. Sixteen is already too many, although obviously the season won't be shortened.

Teams would benefit more with scrimmages with other teams. You can simulate game situations like 2 minute drills, red zone, 3rd and shorts...etc in a more controlled environment. You would get more reps spread around the whole team and can evaluate the progression of players.

Go to 2 preseason games just to give the starters some game work to prepare for the season and use the 2nd half to evaluate other players.

The NFL should assign teams to scrimmage with during training camp. Preferably AFC vs. NFC. Giants and jets, Baltimore and Washington.

In comment 14535625 AcidTest said:

Quote:

would just shorten the preseason to two games, or possibly eliminate it completely. I would also add a second bye as others have suggested. I wouldn't extend the season to 18 games. Sixteen is already too many, although obviously the season won't be shortened.

Agree about the 2nd bye during an 18 game season

In comment 14535613 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

Some coaches like Nagy don't like preseason. Other coaches like Andy Reid and Fangio see the value in it. Nothing Weis is saying is unique nor is he the first one to come up with this. This has been talked about for a couple of years now.

My feeling is you need to simulate a "real game" environment for new players (particularly rookies and young players), and for the coaching staff (especially new staffs). There is no way you can get that from training camp, especially with the rules now. Even simulating games with joint practices doesn't cut it IMO.

Eliminating preseason would produce even more garbage in the opening weeks.

Cutting it down to two games, and doing joint practices seems the way to go.

I'd still be against 18 games.....the sport is brutal enough already.

How do you do it? The teams already charge full price for tickets of the preseason games. They aren't increasing revenue there or with concessions or parking. They'll only see a marginal boost in TV revenue.

I don't see the need for more real games. 16 works for me.

That interests me more than the opinion of Charlie Weis and coaches. I for one, wish that:

1) the MLB season would run from May 1st to Columbus Day
2) the NBA season would run from Thanksgiving to the end of April
3) ditto for the NHL, and
4) the NFL season would run from mid-August to mid-January

In each case, I'm talking about the entire season, including the championships.

There are multiple reasons to this but some of them are health and limited practice time. We all complain now about how sloppy the game is especially with tackling. Not sure anything can be done about the tackling. Teams try to simulate it but nothing will fully prepare players for that other than just getting on the field and actually hitting each other in that environment. However, we could see a lot of other sloppy play especially early on in the season. Things like communication between an OL, a QB and his receivers, the secondary, etc. It is good to see another team come out and do things that you haven't been able to prepare for and see how the players adjust in the preseason. When things are scripted like joint practices it is different. The coaches are basically on the field with the players and talk to them between plays. That doesn't happen in a preseason game. There will be other aspects that could worsen the game that will lead to a lesser product. It doesn't mean it will but it is likely imo.

Pre-season is more for the rookies and FA and seeing if they can be added to the roster. Just play your young guys, but they dont get enough practice reps as it is. They dont need more games, they need more coaching.

In comment 14535630 Csonka said:

Quote:

How do you do it? The teams already charge full price for tickets of the preseason games. They aren't increasing revenue there or with concessions or parking. They'll only see a marginal boost in TV revenue. I don't see the need for more real games. 16 works for me.

TV but if there are more meaningful games I am sure the owners would increase the ticket prices. The Giants used to have them all the same price. Now, the preseason games are less than other regular season games. But there are more ways to get money and the biggest are the tv deals.

is to take the current 20 game format is simply make 2 more of them count by going to 2 preseason and 18 regular.

This should be done with expanded rosters, maybe 60 final roster and 53 dress on game day, as well as an extra bye week.

The owners get to keep their 10 game a year gate and their 18 game schedule.

Season ticket holders get to pay for one less meaningless game.

Players get the extra BYE week and the expanded rosters while ultimately the structure of the season is not dramatically different than what is asked already.

There are some things I would add to this like eliminating all Thursday games except for Thanksgiving (which would be another carrot for the players) and pushing the season back to have SB fall on President's day weekend (another carrot for the fans).

In comment 14535657 Chris684 said:

Quote:

is to take the current 20 game format is simply make 2 more of them count by going to 2 preseason and 18 regular. This should be done with expanded rosters, maybe 60 final roster and 53 dress on game day, as well as an extra bye week. The owners get to keep their 10 game a year gate and their 18 game schedule. Season ticket holders get to pay for one less meaningless game. Players get the extra BYE week and the expanded rosters while ultimately the structure of the season is not dramatically different than what is asked already. There are some things I would add to this like eliminating all Thursday games except for Thanksgiving (which would be another carrot for the players) and pushing the season back to have SB fall on President's day weekend (another carrot for the fans).

I agree that Thursday night games suck but I still watch. However, with 2 bye weeks it is easy to put it into the schedule that a team has a bye prior to the Thursday night game for injury purposes. This would also give them an extended break for their following game. So, I think this would actually help keep Thursday night games around, make it safer, and hopefully more watchable.

They're going to have to give a mahor concession to the NFLPA.

18 games is a nonstarter for players

How much revenue is generated by pre-season games? If it's significant at all they will never be eliminated, maybe cut down to 2 if they go with the 18 game schedule.

Any decision will be based on money not product quality.

isn't a coordinated effort to lay the groundwork for an 18 game season in the next CBA? But there will still be two preseason games too. The owners charge full price for those games. They're not going from 10 gates to 9 gates.

Make it 2 games, fine, but teams need a way to evaluate players for the bottom of the roster. Many guys practice well, but meltdown in games, so teams need a way to account for that.

Forget the 18-game season, it is a terrible idea any way you slice it. Eliminating the preseason to accommodate an 18-game season doesn't make any sense if starters aren't playing in preseason. It still means another 2 games for them. The NFL should add another bye week for each team. That would give them a 19-week schedule, and bring in more TV rev.

In comment 14535670 Sneakers O'toole said:

Quote:

They're going to have to give a mahor concession to the NFLPA. 18 games is a nonstarter for players

I think so much so, the NFLPA would be willing to strike an entire season (not unanimously, or course) to avoid it. The owners would have to not only flip the revenue sharing, but put it heavily in the players favor, among other things.

In comment 14535666 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

In comment 14535657 Chris684 said: Quote: is to take the current 20 game format is simply make 2 more of them count by going to 2 preseason and 18 regular. This should be done with expanded rosters, maybe 60 final roster and 53 dress on game day, as well as an extra bye week. The owners get to keep their 10 game a year gate and their 18 game schedule. Season ticket holders get to pay for one less meaningless game. Players get the extra BYE week and the expanded rosters while ultimately the structure of the season is not dramatically different than what is asked already. There are some things I would add to this like eliminating all Thursday games except for Thanksgiving (which would be another carrot for the players) and pushing the season back to have SB fall on President's day weekend (another carrot for the fans). I agree that Thursday night games suck but I still watch. However, with 2 bye weeks it is easy to put it into the schedule that a team has a bye prior to the Thursday night game for injury purposes. This would also give them an extended break for their following game. So, I think this would actually help keep Thursday night games around, make it safer, and hopefully more watchable.

These are excellent suggestions. I think you need to keep at least two preseason games so you can watch the rookies and less experienced players in real action to evaluate how they play. I would think most coaches would not play most of their starters and that is fine. It's like turning those games into team scrimmages.

it just means it will be even worse week 1 regular season.

Just cut the amount of them, increase practice time, and go from there. Its never going to be perfect.

the 4 preseason games whether used for starters or or backups is a way to evaluate players and teach the game in a live environment. injuries are going to happen in games and in practice if you are going live.

If you add 2 more games you have to add 2 more weeks of practice to the front end. Even if its just walk throughs you still need the practice. Rookies already have enough trouble making it through 16 games and now you want to do 18...

Sometimes things are better left as is. Look at some of the recent reactionary rules like the Pass Interference rule that happen because of one play. I don't think adding 2 additional real games would add to the season, it may take away from it as players would be more tired and possibly more injured by the end and the game will be more of survival than actual football.

Let the coaches do their job. If they feel their starters are ready they can sit them in preseason and the ones that want to play cam play. If I were a coach I would go out and test my 2 minute drills and other things rather than play it like its a real game. Have my kicking team come out like time is expiring whether it is or not. Get the team prepared for special situations. i didn't like that the Bears kneeled down at the end of the game. Its a scrimmage, they could have tested a hail mary or something.

It would dilute the value of each regular season game too much.

My proposals / ideas (most not original):

1) Add a second bye week for each team (one bye within in weeks 3 through 8; a second bye in weeks 9 through 14; no byes in the last 4 weeks, weeks 15 through 18).

2) Eliminate 1 preseason game (the current first one) and replace it with a scrimmage with another team.

3) Mandate the “starters” have to play 1 quarter in preseason game 1 and 2 quarters in preseason game 2 (come up with a definition of a starter that is hard to manipulate).

4) No restrictions on preseason game 3 (I.e. starters can sit)

5) Add a third wild card team to the playoffs. Only the “regular season champion” (team with the best regular season record in each conference) gets a first round playoff bye.

there is no way I agree to 18 games. Even at 16 it's a marathon with many playing through nagging injuries. An 18 game season means a shorter career for most as the physical beating per season increases and the offseason gets shorter.

new players rather than give practice opportunities to experienced players. If preseason were eliminated, coaches would need to be convinced that recent draftees and free agents can be fully evaluated during team scrimmages. Not sure a lot of coaches would agree that this is possible.

just reduce to 3 preseason games..

expand season to 17 games

this way teams do get enough pre season .. and you are just expanding one game which is doable in the league without overkill

If I was a season ticket holder and had to pay full price for these shitty games, I'd be in an uproar.

...you still need a couple of preseason 'games' to iron out procedures and put your youth in game situations to evaluate them.

When Goodell floated the 18 games with the utterly stupid idea of sitting players the part that makes sense is going from 4 to 2 preseason games. The part he left out was you have to 'find or add' two more weeks of off season practice so the teams can get ready. We already watch about a month of sloppy(being kind) football before things round into shape after the most recent CBA gutted practice time.

but increase mediatory practice sessions so staffs can evaluate their teams before the season begins.

In comment 14535670 Sneakers O'toole said:

Quote:

They're going to have to give a mahor concession to the NFLPA. 18 games is a nonstarter for players

It should be. A proposal to expand regular season games clearly demonstrates the owners/Goodell are not as interested in safety as they boast. Another two games of hits in a year that could impact future earnings is ridiculous.

Great I received another game or two of paychecks, but now I have spaghetti knee from a big hit I took in week 18...such a joke.

In comment 14535632 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

There are multiple reasons to this but some of them are health and limited practice time. We all complain now about how sloppy the game is especially with tackling. Not sure anything can be done about the tackling. Teams try to simulate it but nothing will fully prepare players for that other than just getting on the field and actually hitting each other in that environment. However, we could see a lot of other sloppy play especially early on in the season. Things like communication between an OL, a QB and his receivers, the secondary, etc. It is good to see another team come out and do things that you haven't been able to prepare for and see how the players adjust in the preseason. When things are scripted like joint practices it is different. The coaches are basically on the field with the players and talk to them between plays. That doesn't happen in a preseason game. There will be other aspects that could worsen the game that will lead to a lesser product. It doesn't mean it will but it is likely imo.

The only way to simulate a game is to actually play one, against other players you aren't familiar with. Substitutions, making calls, racing against the play clock, etc.

They still need a minimum of two in the preseason.

without any game action?

In comment 14535826 giantfan2000 said:

Quote:

just reduce to 3 preseason games.. expand season to 17 games this way teams do get enough pre season .. and you are just expanding one game which is doable in the league without overkill

Don't you need an even number of games?

Stretch the season without adding games and players get more recovery time in season.

Stretch the season without adding games and players get more recovery time in season.

Eliminate and go to 18 games. 2 bye weeks - weeks 6&7 and 13&14The season then is in thirds with no teams playing more than 7 weeks in a row. Each team has stretch of 5,6 &7 games

Expand rosters by a few players and allow all players to dress on game days

As part of negotiations, No Thursday night games until week 7 and none after week 14. Every NFL team does not need to be on prime time.

Also come up with an escalating scale of guaranteed money on contracts based upon years for rank and file players

This moves games to mid Jan and playoffs into mid Feb. Moves the SB to presidents weekend. The league now has the month of Feb, which is slow month, all to themselves. Their will be so much more money generated owning Feb than a few Thu night games

Money ultimately talks and it is there to be had for both sides