Gio (from Boomer & Gio) thinks Pat Shurmur wants to....

In comment 14535754 HomerJones45 said:

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In comment 14535651 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: Jones would start. The rest is nonsense. Shurmur doesn't have that kind of juice. He's lucky to even be a head coach and he won't be one for much longer unless he cracks the magical 6 win barrier that has so far eluded him as a HC. He will do what he is told and like it or he'll be replaced. That said, I don't think that was the Gettlemen plan and the plan isn't changing because the kid completed a few passes in preseason games against scrubs. For the business minded, Mara isn't writing multi-million dollar checks to Manning to sit on the bench in the final year of his contract. Manning is playing this year.

As an investor, the worst thing to do is look back on $$ spent to influence future decisions. Paying Eli elite $$ and playing him have to be viewed as two different things. Whether the compensation is a mistake or not is one thing. Don't double down on the mistake by starting him if he will continue to play poorly as I would expect.

In comment 14535818 Pep22 said:

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In comment 14535754 HomerJones45 said: Quote: In comment 14535651 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: Jones would start. The rest is nonsense. Shurmur doesn't have that kind of juice. He's lucky to even be a head coach and he won't be one for much longer unless he cracks the magical 6 win barrier that has so far eluded him as a HC. He will do what he is told and like it or he'll be replaced. That said, I don't think that was the Gettlemen plan and the plan isn't changing because the kid completed a few passes in preseason games against scrubs. For the business minded, Mara isn't writing multi-million dollar checks to Manning to sit on the bench in the final year of his contract. Manning is playing this year. As an investor, the worst thing to do is look back on $$ spent to influence future decisions. Paying Eli elite $$ and playing him have to be viewed as two different things. Whether the compensation is a mistake or not is one thing. Don't double down on the mistake by starting him if he will continue to play poorly as I would expect.

Expectations borne of hope and fantasy. By all accounts, Eli has been the best Qb in camp this summer and, even when comparing him to himself of last year, looks significantly better. As an investor, I would want my sunk money to be best used to produce the best product. Seems like that aligns pretty well with fantastical theories of Mara's directives.

Gee, let me read between the lines something that wasn't intended or more accurately not there at all.

Pats comment taken in context included the fact that he had been saying the same thing from the beginning, with the insinuation that the media had either ignored or misconstrued his comments.

Sadly this BS is the norm these days and not only for 'sports journalists' but nearly everyone in the media in any capacity.

In comment 14535668 GiantsRage2007 said:

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Now it isn't what people say, it's how they say it, or what they implied? Good God.... when does the season start?

What, the quality of posts improves during the regular season??

I won't believe a word of it till bw confirms...

In comment 14535727 Pete in MD said:

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who witnessed or listened to a recording of that Q&A with Shurmur would have taken his comment as a veiled complaint about Mara telling him who start at QB. He was trying to be funny or cheeky. It was basically saying, "Eli is the starter, I keep saying it, Dave Gettleman keeps saying it, even the owner said it the other day."

. Agree with this thought. Think Shurmur can't seem to form a straight forward reply to this implication from the NY media. He should heve been ready with a definitive answer that shuts them up once and for all and stop trying to be witty or cute. Does not handle the press well at all. They will keep asking till he does that. They are all shit stirrers looking for controversy. End it.

believe that Shurmur is handcuffed by Mara

people who hate superhero movies think it's total BS.

I am so right about this

In comment 14535908 I Love Clams Casino said:

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believe that Shurmur is handcuffed by Mara people who hate superhero movies think it's total BS. I am so right about this

I may be an outlier to your thesis. I don't like superhero movies, and I think Mara certainly weighs on the QB decision-making of the last couple seasons through the present.

Getting involved in the Mara/Eli debate, the only way I can see this season as a failure is if the Giants are not a playoff team and DJ has not obtained significant experience. If the Giants walk into 2020 without a good sense of what DJ actually is, 2019 will have been a lost season (of course this assumes no playoffs).

If the Giants are 3-5 halfway through, there has to be a realistic discussion of moving toward DJ, let him have his growing pains and work through his struggles. Ultimately, if the Giants end up 6-10 and we leave 2019 with an of 2004 feeling (i.e., Eli leads the game winning drive against Dallas), I think the season will have been at least a moderate success and the arrow is pointing up.

Isn't Gio a little late to the game at this point?

In comment 14535925 jcn56 said:

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Isn't Gio a little late to the game at this point?

Must be ripping off bbi for talking points. I expect a convoluted rambling on Redskins name and gun control next.

If Shurmur wanted to start Jones over Eli he would discuss it with Gettleman before Mara. If Gettleman agreed that was the right decision and Mara then objected and told them no does anyone honestly believe that Gettleman would just accept that?

Gettleman was fired from Carolina because h3 discussed moving on from a couple of Richardson's two favorite players. They fought and it ultimately lead to Gettleman's dismissal.

"The entire organization backs Eli as the starter," rather than passing the buck as Gio implies.

In comment 14535940 Jay on the Island said:

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If Shurmur wanted to start Jones over Eli he would discuss it with Gettleman before Mara. If Gettleman agreed that was the right decision and Mara then objected and told them no does anyone honestly believe that Gettleman would just accept that? Gettleman was fired from Carolina because h3 discussed moving on from a couple of Richardson's two favorite players. They fought and it ultimately lead to Gettleman's dismissal.

One way or another, the three of them (at a minimum) came to the decision in the offseason that Eli was the starting quarterback to begin 2019 (we may all debate who wanted what within that process, and realistically will probably never know). But, in making the decision, they likely established that regardless of the outcome of the draft, there wouldn't be any change to that decision until the season was a few games underway, at least.

It would be surprising if the offseason decisions were made in such a fashion (in terms of the communication between owner/GM/coach) that Shurmur felt like it was even an option at this stage to propose that Eli not be the starter Week 1.

So the whole hypothetical of "Shurmur walks into DG's office today..." seems far-fetched.

I say this as someone who felt the best course of action was to move on from Eli in the offseason (or sooner...) -- if they chose to start Jones week 1 right now, it would really call into question what they hell they are doing in terms of the way they make decisions as an organization.

and I’ll add that no good coach ever wants to start a rookie QB from the get go ... they do it because the talent gap is obvious and the upside outweighs the downside risk ... this is definitely not the case for the Giants right now. Eli is proven and looks VG in camp ... only a fool would want to start DJ right now.

How some people still do not get its all about ratings. The media will try to read into any quote and take it and run with it. These people are like herds of sheep buying into anything they say

want to start Jones? Jones is clearly the better prototype to run PS's offense. Having Eli limits the playbook because Eli is 38 and a mediocre athlete on a good day. Jones, who I'm not sold on yet, is younger, clearly a better athlete, and has the capacity to make off-schedule plays.

As for Mara, well, I have absolutely no doubt the delegations of authority at Jints Central precludes Shurmur from making ANY final decisions on Eli without Mara's signature.

In comment 14535680 Jints in Carolina said:

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If Shurmur wants to start Jones, he will.

He would and it'd eventually go through once he convinced Mara. If one doesn't think Mara has ties to the Mannings, then one is blindly fooled. But, if schurmur wanted to really start Jones, he would..but unlike other situations, he'd really have to sell Mara

BBI has lost its collective minds.

from Mayfield, and if you look at as whole, it was maybe at best slightly above average QB play. Eli with protection is going to give you average QB play at least, it is when he doesn't have protection he looks awful because of his atrocious mobility at this point, anyone arguing otherwise is offbase. To think Daniel Jones is going to come in week 1 of the regular season and give you the best rookie season ever is gotta be drinking the koolaid pretty hard and delusional.

In comment 14536040 bw in dc said:

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want to start Jones? Jones is clearly the better prototype to run PS's offense. Having Eli limits the playbook because Eli is 38 and a mediocre athlete on a good day. Jones, who I'm not sold on yet, is younger, clearly a better athlete, and has the capacity to make off-schedule plays. As for Mara, well, I have absolutely no doubt the delegations of authority at Jints Central precludes Shurmur from making ANY final decisions on Eli without Mara's signature.

If only PS could get them to allow DJ to run his offense against something other than a defense.

said a little while back regarding Jones that it will be "clear" to everyone when he starts. Coaches, the team, fans, staff etc. will know if it gets to that point.

Personally, I think Eli will perform well with this line and the team as a whole is going to challenge for the East. If they fall out of contention, then Jones will be inserted imo.

Has been around for a while now. It s almost taken on the life of a “conspiracy theory”. As in the case with most people and their conspiracy theory, they are convicted in their belief to the pt of referring to their theory as fact when making an argument that is supported by their theory.

Having seen Wellington allow his beloved Phill Simms released and son John allowing Eli to be benched for Geno Smith, should be enough evidence to make one at least consider that their “Mara calls the shots” narrative might not be true; but it won’t, nothing will.

In comment 14536040 bw in dc said:

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want to start Jones? Jones is clearly the better prototype to run PS's offense. Having Eli limits the playbook because Eli is 38 and a mediocre athlete on a good day. Jones, who I'm not sold on yet, is younger, clearly a better athlete, and has the capacity to make off-schedule plays. As for Mara, well, I have absolutely no doubt the delegations of authority at Jints Central precludes Shurmur from making ANY final decisions on Eli without Mara's signature.

Wait a second... Having a 15 year NFL veteran QB who has already had a year in the system is going to limit the playbook vs. a rookie QB who has only had the playbook in his hands for a couple of months, not to mention never taking a snap vs. an NFL caliber defense?

is off the table with Eli, it's a fair point.

Eli's experience is also a fair point.

In comment 14535658 Spider56 said:

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PS was getting frustrated with the dumbass media asking him the same shit over and over ... so he meant even if you don’t believe me, the owner just said It (Manning’s the starter) too. It’s with good reason that journalists are often called muckrakers.

Thank you. If the cannot report a story, they make on up...

because they are looking for clicks and attention. However, to see the people here buy into it is really not surprising.

Like FMiC said... Mara wanted Eli benched and now he insists that he start? Really?

If Mara told Shurmur that he wanted Eli to start, that would be the best scenario for Shurmur. He gets an out of jail free card because the owner made that decision. It also takes the tough decision away from Shurmur.

Did any of you think that "IF" Mara said something like that it would be to help suppress the QB controversy and make it easier for Shurmur?

The idea that the head coach wants to start a rookie QB in week 1 even though the kid has played only about one half of pre season football and has not seen a #1 defense yet is just ridiculous.

People here are getting played every day... and have no idea that it is happening.

In comment 14536284 Britt in VA said:

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Wait a second... Having a 15 year NFL veteran QB who has already had a year in the system is going to limit the playbook vs. a rookie QB who has only had the playbook in his hands for a couple of months, not to mention never taking a snap vs. an NFL caliber defense?

Correct. Being a year in the system doesn’t change the fact that Eli can’t perform the parts that require mobility. Shurmur prefers the dual threat QB, especially the QB with the ability to make impromptu plays.

Eli needs many elements in the offense to be clicking to be successful. On paper, Jones looks to not require all of those prerequisites.

Given the gnashing of teeth, locker room tears, and jobs lost the last time a coach thought about playing a quarterback ahead of Manning, I find it quite comical anyone thinks Shurmur wouldn't confer with ownership and management when it comes up again.

Imagine you're Pat and you guess wrong on the "What dopey plan does John Mara have this time for Manning" quiz.

In comment 14536395 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14536284 Britt in VA said: Quote: Wait a second... Having a 15 year NFL veteran QB who has already had a year in the system is going to limit the playbook vs. a rookie QB who has only had the playbook in his hands for a couple of months, not to mention never taking a snap vs. an NFL caliber defense? Correct. Being a year in the system doesn’t change the fact that Eli can’t perform the parts that require mobility. Shurmur prefers the dual threat QB, especially the QB with the ability to make impromptu plays. Eli needs many elements in the offense to be clicking to be successful. On paper, Jones looks to not require all of those prerequisites.

You don't consider beaing able to read a defense to be a prerequisite?

In comment 14536395 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14536284 Britt in VA said: Quote: Wait a second... Having a 15 year NFL veteran QB who has already had a year in the system is going to limit the playbook vs. a rookie QB who has only had the playbook in his hands for a couple of months, not to mention never taking a snap vs. an NFL caliber defense? Correct. Being a year in the system doesn’t change the fact that Eli can’t perform the parts that require mobility. Shurmur prefers the dual threat QB, especially the QB with the ability to make impromptu plays. Eli needs many elements in the offense to be clicking to be successful. On paper, Jones looks to not require all of those prerequisites.

Are we talking designed run/option type plays here? Because if not, the ability to run or not doesn't "open up or limit the playbook". Seems to me you're mistaking the ability to extend plays with the ability/knowledge to diagnose the defense and execute plays.

But this situation has been driving me crazy. You have to do a bit of reading between the lines but to me it's obvious Mara has dictated that Eli is the starter.

-he declared Eli the starter last week
-he said it's Shurmur's decision but those are hollow words when the last hc was fired midseason after benching Eli
-after he said it was Shurmur's decision he said that he wants to be notified beforehand(why?)
-during spring camp Shurmur insinuated best man plays and since then has done everything he can to backtrack and declare Eli the starter
-has never once said Eli gives the team the best chance to win, which is a boilerplate soundbyte when you want the media to drop a qb controversy
-DJ hasn't had a single snap with the 1's in camp, Eli hasn't even taken a play off for a veteran break or even a water break. Really unusual for a 38 year old guy. Really unusual to not get the backup familiar with the starters. It all reeks of avoiding a "qb controversay" at all costs


Jones has the tools run Shurmur's offense better than Eli does and is not just looking competent, but exceptional. This is not a normal situation. Mara invites the Manning family into the owner's booth every week and said the decision to move on from Eli will be 'tough and emotional'. We all love Eli but deciding who to start should be cold and calculated, just like the other 89 players on the roster. I am sure there's plenty of guys that are going to get cut in 2 weeks that gave their all, are good people and have inspiring back stories but just aren't good enough to make the 53.

It's debatable at this point whether we win more games with Eli than Jones this year but DJ is the future of this team. He is going to make rookie mistakes in his first few games whether they come in 2019 or in 2020. There' s not a reasonable expectation of our squad winning a SB this year but next year we have 70 million dollars to spend after 2 or 3 really solid drafts. There is a legit chance at a deep run next year but instead you are taking a 3 year rebuild and making it a 4 year rebuild. There is no upside. I don't want to go into that season with a qb that's learning the ropes. I can't imagine that Shurmur wants to either when his job is almost certainly on the line. Mara should, and probably will, give Eli a job inside the organization when he hangs it up but he needs to let the coach make the decisions regarding who starts and who plays. The NYG has had success because ownership has traditionally taken a hands-off approach to these situations. Really don't want to see this team run like the Knicks and the Redskins or the Cowboys because those teams don't win

I think there is consensus on the plan throughout all the levels of the organization - Eli starts the season. DJ will play when it is time for him to play. I don't think this is a dictate from Mara. He would have to be in the loop on Eli's status as he is an icon of the franchise.

Gio is clearly trying to stir the pot.

I think it is a decent plan.

Barring a miraculous run by Eli, Jones likely starts mid-season against the Cardinals. He needs to play.

But, if Eli makes a playoff run, which is unlikely, it would be a great thing to see. How could they bench him if the team is winning and he's playing well? Wouldn't make any sense.

Its a win-win for the Giants.

--- Either Eli takes them on a magical run...

--- Or, DJ gets playing time and the team gets ready for 2020, a big year given the amount of cap they have.

Both will keep the fans engaged with the team.

Who finds this even the teeny bit odd.

-DJ hasn't had a single snap with the 1's in camp, Eli hasn't even taken a play off for a veteran break or even a water break. Really unusual for a 38 year old guy. Really unusual to not get the backup familiar with the starters. It all reeks of avoiding a "qb controversay" at all costs

In comment 14537712 Rong5611 said:

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I think there is consensus on the plan throughout all the levels of the organization - Eli starts the season. DJ will play when it is time for him to play. I don't think this is a dictate from Mara. He would have to be in the loop on Eli's status as he is an icon of the franchise. Gio is clearly trying to stir the pot. I think it is a decent plan. Barring a miraculous run by Eli, Jones likely starts mid-season against the Cardinals. He needs to play. But, if Eli makes a playoff run, which is unlikely, it would be a great thing to see. How could they bench him if the team is winning and he's playing well? Wouldn't make any sense. Its a win-win for the Giants. --- Either Eli takes them on a magical run... --- Or, DJ gets playing time and the team gets ready for 2020, a big year given the amount of cap they have. Both will keep the fans engaged with the team.

Or you just evaluate both quarterbacks equally and the best man plays. What could go wrong there from a team perspective?

In comment 14537718 ron mexico said:

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Who finds this even the teeny bit odd. -DJ hasn't had a single snap with the 1's in camp, Eli hasn't even taken a play off for a veteran break or even a water break. Really unusual for a 38 year old guy. Really unusual to not get the backup familiar with the starters. It all reeks of avoiding a "qb controversay" at all costs

It's absolutely odd. You have seen 4th,5th,6th,7th rounders and UDFAs getting limited snaps with the 1s but your #6 overall pick has never spelled a 38 year old qb? Something stinks there, and when the owner says "i hope Daniel Jones doesn't play all season" I definitely believe him.

In comment 14537718 ron mexico said:

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Who finds this even the teeny bit odd. -DJ hasn't had a single snap with the 1's in camp, Eli hasn't even taken a play off for a veteran break or even a water break. Really unusual for a 38 year old guy. Really unusual to not get the backup familiar with the starters. It all reeks of avoiding a "qb controversay" at all costs

I guess it is only odd if you don't understand the way camp works. Most team practices are just like this. The #1 QB gets his reps with the starters. They don't give the #2 guy reps sprinkled in. They don't take individual water breaks.

It really is like people actively look for ways to feed a conspiracy and they apparently don't mind looking ignorant when it comes to practice protocol while espousing such thoughts.

In comment 14537751 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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In comment 14537718 ron mexico said: Quote: Who finds this even the teeny bit odd. -DJ hasn't had a single snap with the 1's in camp, Eli hasn't even taken a play off for a veteran break or even a water break. Really unusual for a 38 year old guy. Really unusual to not get the backup familiar with the starters. It all reeks of avoiding a "qb controversay" at all costs I guess it is only odd if you don't understand the way camp works. Most team practices are just like this. The #1 QB gets his reps with the starters. They don't give the #2 guy reps sprinkled in. They don't take individual water breaks. It really is like people actively look for ways to feed a conspiracy and they apparently don't mind looking ignorant when it comes to practice protocol while espousing such thoughts.

Except there have been 2nd and 3rd teamers that have taken reps with the 1s at every position group besides qb. Mostly for older guys that wanted and/or needed a break. And none of them are as old as Eli and none of the fill ins were drafted as high as Jones. So despite your haughty tone you are absolutely full of shit.

Serious question, because I genuinely don't know.

I'm talking about the QB position.

You show me the camps around the league where the #1 QB is splitting reps with the #2 QB. If there is a clear starter, they don't. Again - if you've followed the sport, this is common protocol. Hell, even in Carolina, Cam Newton is coming off of a shoulder injury and he's taking the practice reps and not the backup.

Like I said above, it seems you really don't give a fuck if you sound like you have no clue what goes on in practices, but are damn sure going to rail against it anyways!

In comment 14537751 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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In comment 14537718 ron mexico said: Quote: Who finds this even the teeny bit odd. -DJ hasn't had a single snap with the 1's in camp, Eli hasn't even taken a play off for a veteran break or even a water break. Really unusual for a 38 year old guy. Really unusual to not get the backup familiar with the starters. It all reeks of avoiding a "qb controversay" at all costs I guess it is only odd if you don't understand the way camp works. Most team practices are just like this. The #1 QB gets his reps with the starters. They don't give the #2 guy reps sprinkled in. They don't take individual water breaks. It really is like people actively look for ways to feed a conspiracy and they apparently don't mind looking ignorant when it comes to practice protocol while espousing such thoughts.

Both Lauletta and Webb got reps with the 1s last year.

Are you saying its normal for a vet of Eli's stature to take 100.000% of the reps?

Brees Took a day off

https://wwl.radio.com/blogs/steve-geller/emmanuel-butler-back-saints-practice-drew-brees-gets-day

Brady took a day off

https://www.wcvb.com/article/tom-brady-gets-day-off-at-patriots-training-camp-practice/28519089

Big Ben took a day off
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2019/7/28/8934068/ben-roethlisberger-maurkice-pouncey-get-day-off-the-first-practice-in-pads-training-camp-mike-tomlin

You still want to talk about not understanding practice protocol?

That's gonna sting

has been the best QB in camp this summer. And not be a small margin. Everything else in your post re: Mara/Shurmer is trash and not worth pointing our the falsehoods for the um[pteempth time.

I'm saying it isn't odd for the #1 QB to get the reps. There's a leap being made that Eli taking all the reps is something the owner is forcing as if it is being done for appearances only.

And I even think you guys are wrong. I think in some of the early practices, Tanney had a few reps.

It is common to see the #1 QB get the reps when he's on the field. It isn't common to have the #1 guy go off for a water break and usher the #2 guy in. You are more apt to see an entire practice with him off.

But what you guys are insinuating is that because Eli isn't leaving the field that Jones is being stifled by Mara.

You don't find that to be a pretty stupid conclusion?

.

In comment 14537817 Prude said:

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That's gonna sting

dupe accusations coming in 3....2.....1....

of course there are going to be instances for whatever reason. Injury, day off, etc....

Jones is likely going to get the start in the final preseason game when Eli sits. That will be time with the ones. And that is pretty standard.

Don't cherry pick, what Fatman is saying is pretty common. Whomever is deemed the starting QB for week 1 is going to get the majority of training camp.

Patrick Mahomes sat on the bench for an entire year behind Alex Smith.

In comment 14537827 ron mexico said:

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In comment 14537817 Prude said: Quote: That's gonna sting dupe accusations coming in 3....2.....1....

LOL. Well, it is clear you are thinking it, but if guessing you're going to throw shade on the poster who actually calls him out.

You literally take the least popular side even when you know it is wrong.

In comment 14537821 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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I'm saying it isn't odd for the #1 QB to get the reps. There's a leap being made that Eli taking all the reps is something the owner is forcing as if it is being done for appearances only. And I even think you guys are wrong. I think in some of the early practices, Tanney had a few reps. It is common to see the #1 QB get the reps when he's on the field. It isn't common to have the #1 guy go off for a water break and usher the #2 guy in. You are more apt to see an entire practice with him off. But what you guys are insinuating is that because Eli isn't leaving the field that Jones is being stifled by Mara. You don't find that to be a pretty stupid conclusion?

No.