....start Daniel Jones but is being thwarted by John Mara.
This morning he referenced a recent Shurmur quote when asked by the media for his evaluation of the current QB competition. It was something along the lines of "You heard what our owner recently said." Gio thinks that this implies Shurmur would really like to start Jones now, but he can't do so because his hands are tied.
But to suggest that Mara is intervening to limit Jones' reps in practice or the day-to-day on-goings of the team is a bridge too far. Way too far. But that's just me.
Do you believe Mara has issued a directive that Jones is not to get snaps with the 1's.
Put the cards on the table, Chief.
But to suggest that Mara is intervening to limit Jones' reps in practice or the day-to-day on-goings of the team is a bridge too far. Way too far. But that's just me.
No offense, but personally, I believe the whole Mara/Eli starting thing is the main reason that Reynolds and Alcoa's stock prices are up.
*Who the QB of the Giants is is a Mara decision, and he made that clear during the McAdoo fiasco. He actually used those exact words. Both John and Chris are heavily involved and have final say. It is really no different than many other corporations - it's Gettleman and Shurmur's job to carry out the wishes of the CEO, and take the brunt of all decisions. In this way, no different than what's happening at Alex & Ani, BlackRock or any other large corporation. The owner is shielded and stays above the fray even though they are completely in charge.
They will just never say it. Only in regards to the QB - Mara did.
And I even think you guys are wrong. I think in some of the early practices, Tanney had a few reps.
It is common to see the #1 QB get the reps when he's on the field. It isn't common to have the #1 guy go off for a water break and usher the #2 guy in. You are more apt to see an entire practice with him off.
But what you guys are insinuating is that because Eli isn't leaving the field that Jones is being stifled by Mara.
You don't find that to be a pretty stupid conclusion?
Its been reported that Eli has taken 100% of the reps.
Stop latching on to one phrase like water break and jumping to extreme conclusions on my behalf.
My stance is nothing more than what I wrote. I find it odd that our vet QB hasn't taken 1 rep off and that your #6 pick, who is showing he belongs, hasn't gotten 1 session in.
I'm not insinuating some Mara led conspiracy
Don't cherry pick, what Fatman is saying is pretty common. Whomever is deemed the starting QB for week 1 is going to get the majority of training camp.
There's a vast difference between 'majority' and 100%. I fully expected Eli to get the majority of reps and didn't envision a 50/50 qb competition. But i also didn't imagine DJ getting exactly zero snaps and the owner saying that he hopes out top draft pick doesn't see the field. He didn't have to say that, it is as simple as saying "having 2 top caliber quarterbacks is a good problem to have". He should've been rehearsing that answer for months. And everything the QB controversy co. Es up Shurmur looks like someone put a gun to his head.
If you think Eli is the best QB you should welcome a challenge instead of being put in a corner where you have to defend a guy who hasn't had to prove anything. You can say it's only preseason but DJ looks better than Eli has in 5 years, or maybe ever, there is not reason to get defensive if you want whats best for the team.
Yet, somehow gettleman is going to allow John mara dictate who plays, when they play and so on and so forth and gettleman is just going to bow.
I heard time and time again how it would be the same as it was and nothing was going to change with the hiring gettleman. Well, we have all seen that wasn't the case as gettleman has got rid of big name players like Beckham, snacks, Collins and Vernon, so now we get this.
Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, we still have people that will pound their fists that this is all John mara
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that Mara is a big part of the reason why Eli is the starting QB this season..
But to suggest that Mara is intervening to limit Jones' reps in practice or the day-to-day on-goings of the team is a bridge too far. Way too far. But that's just me.
No offense, but personally, I believe the whole Mara/Eli starting thing is the main reason that Reynolds and Alcoa's stock prices are up.
Everyone knows where you stand on it, boss. Eli deserves everything and anyone who says otherwise is crazy. Don't waste the keystrokes.
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I'm saying it isn't odd for the #1 QB to get the reps. There's a leap being made that Eli taking all the reps is something the owner is forcing as if it is being done for appearances only.
And I even think you guys are wrong. I think in some of the early practices, Tanney had a few reps.
It is common to see the #1 QB get the reps when he's on the field. It isn't common to have the #1 guy go off for a water break and usher the #2 guy in. You are more apt to see an entire practice with him off.
But what you guys are insinuating is that because Eli isn't leaving the field that Jones is being stifled by Mara.
You don't find that to be a pretty stupid conclusion?
Its been reported that Eli has taken 100% of the reps.
Stop latching on to one phrase like water break and jumping to extreme conclusions on my behalf.
My stance is nothing more than what I wrote. I find it odd that our vet QB hasn't taken 1 rep off and that your #6 pick, who is showing he belongs, hasn't gotten 1 session in.
I'm not insinuating some Mara led conspiracy
Eli is the 2019 #1 QB. Period. It's no more for Jones to take snaps with the first team offense than it is Tanney or Lauletta. And, generally you're not seeing the #1 or #2 QB take snaps with the #2 and #1 offenses, respectively. WHat you usually see id bob-QB #2 gys rotating in and out of the #1 offense, giving the impression that it's the QB's who are switching. Besides, Jones has clearly gotten snaps with the #1 offense in games, which one would assume both counts and is relevant.
Fantasizing something out of nothing seems to be the BBI M.O. this year. Hopefully, it won't carry forward into September but I am skeptical about that.
It is a fairly simple question to answer.
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In comment 14537838 bigbluehoya said:
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that Mara is a big part of the reason why Eli is the starting QB this season..
But to suggest that Mara is intervening to limit Jones' reps in practice or the day-to-day on-goings of the team is a bridge too far. Way too far. But that's just me.
No offense, but personally, I believe the whole Mara/Eli starting thing is the main reason that Reynolds and Alcoa's stock prices are up.
Everyone knows where you stand on it, boss. Eli deserves everything and anyone who says otherwise is crazy. Don't waste the keystrokes.
I don't know what he deserves. I do know that every report has him playing as well or better than he ever has and every report has him as the clear best QB in camp. But this really has nothing to do with Eli doing anything; it has to do with Mara. It's completely a conspiratorial fantasy to say he's dictating anything. In fact, last week, he explicitly said that it was SHurmer's call and only SHurmer's call. All he asked for was to be told about it instead of having to read it in the papers. As an owner, I think that should be his prerogative.
It is a fairly simple question to answer.
I'll answer. No Mara didn't order a directive that Jones shouldn't get any snaps
Now your turn.
Is it odd that Jones hasn't gotten 1 snap at this point in camp?
Simple yes or no will suffice
I'll also add that Jones has had snaps with the 1's in both preseason games.
And that isn't odd either.
Lauletta got first team practice reps last year
The real truth is - My comment was made as a disclaimer to further emphasize how crazy it is to suggest that Mara is intervening on Jones' participation level in practice. And yet it somehow still itched your Eli-related sensitivities to the point where you needed to take the conversation on a tangent.
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Neither has Lauletta, btw
Lauletta got first team practice reps last year
I'm not sure what this is supposed to show. That it was common for Eli to be spelled but this year he's stubbornly taking all the reps. That something nefarious is underfoot keeping Jones from playing with the ones? Two years ago, Webb got hardly any reps with the 1's or 2's which is why he wasn't available to start when eli was benched, but I don't think any other QB was getting reps in that camp either.
In a year when Mara supposedly wanted Eli benched.....
Yet, somehow gettleman is going to allow John mara dictate who plays, when they play and so on and so forth and gettleman is just going to bow.
I heard time and time again how it would be the same as it was and nothing was going to change with the hiring gettleman. Well, we have all seen that wasn't the case as gettleman has got rid of big name players like Beckham, snacks, Collins and Vernon, so now we get this.
Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, we still have people that will pound their fists that this is all John mara
He was asked about the QB situation and he said 'the owner' twice. He didn't speak to eith player's strengths or weaknesses, he said 'he' s the owner.... We are on the same page...you heard if from the owner'
It's super super easy to say that Eli is playing lights-out football. It's super super easy to say Jones is coming along nicely but you can't expect him to beat out a 15 year vet and 2x superbowl MVP. It's super easy to say that he is going to play the best man that gives him the best chance to win.
He goes out of his way to make sure he doesn't say any of tjose things. He only says 'Eli is the starter, you heard it from the owner'.
It's not a conspiracy theory is just obvious to anyone that has ever had to defer to a boss and say 'it is what it is, if that' s what they want I have to do it'.
Doesn't sound like a day off situation either.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 14537875 Bill L said:
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Neither has Lauletta, btw
Lauletta got first team practice reps last year
I'm not sure what this is supposed to show. That it was common for Eli to be spelled but this year he's stubbornly taking all the reps. That something nefarious is underfoot keeping Jones from playing with the ones? Two years ago, Webb got hardly any reps with the 1's or 2's which is why he wasn't available to start when eli was benched, but I don't think any other QB was getting reps in that camp either.
In a year when Mara supposedly wanted Eli benched.....
who thinks mara wanted eli benched?
we could actually have a decent conversation if you would just stop with accusing the other side of hot takes all the time
That he told McAdoo to bench him? That isn't what was said here?
And isn't the whole narrative that Eli is to remain the starter purported on the premise that Mara had the benching blow up in his face and now is indebted to the Mannings for life?
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Was the owner when reese / mcadoo was here and still the owner with gettleman and shurmur and yet we see two totally different ways the team is run especially with personnel. Dave gettleman was fired from the Panthers because he wouldn't bow to an owner who wanted to dictate personnel decisions to him and not allow gettleman to do his job.
Yet, somehow gettleman is going to allow John mara dictate who plays, when they play and so on and so forth and gettleman is just going to bow.
I heard time and time again how it would be the same as it was and nothing was going to change with the hiring gettleman. Well, we have all seen that wasn't the case as gettleman has got rid of big name players like Beckham, snacks, Collins and Vernon, so now we get this.
Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, we still have people that will pound their fists that this is all John mara
He was asked about the QB situation and he said 'the owner' twice. He didn't speak to eith player's strengths or weaknesses, he said 'he' s the owner.... We are on the same page...you heard if from the owner'
It's super super easy to say that Eli is playing lights-out football. It's super super easy to say Jones is coming along nicely but you can't expect him to beat out a 15 year vet and 2x superbowl MVP. It's super easy to say that he is going to play the best man that gives him the best chance to win.
He goes out of his way to make sure he doesn't say any of tjose things. He only says 'Eli is the starter, you heard it from the owner'.
It's not a conspiracy theory is just obvious to anyone that has ever had to defer to a boss and say 'it is what it is, if that' s what they want I have to do it'.
Way to distort the context of SHurmer's response to a reporter's question. Kudos.
The latest hot take is actually that Mara is intentionally keeping Jones from getting reps. You know "Prude" is actually holding this as a position.
Or is that completely unimportant to you?
Except there have been 2nd and 3rd teamers that have taken reps with the 1s at every position group besides qb. Mostly for older guys that wanted and/or needed a break. And none of them are as old as Eli and none of the fill ins were drafted as high as Jones. So despite your haughty tone you are absolutely full of shit.
None of them are QB's. Every team operates this way. You can say they shouldn't, that's fine, but using this as proof of some hidden conspiracy is lunacy.
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Was the owner when reese / mcadoo was here and still the owner with gettleman and shurmur and yet we see two totally different ways the team is run especially with personnel. Dave gettleman was fired from the Panthers because he wouldn't bow to an owner who wanted to dictate personnel decisions to him and not allow gettleman to do his job.
Yet, somehow gettleman is going to allow John mara dictate who plays, when they play and so on and so forth and gettleman is just going to bow.
I heard time and time again how it would be the same as it was and nothing was going to change with the hiring gettleman. Well, we have all seen that wasn't the case as gettleman has got rid of big name players like Beckham, snacks, Collins and Vernon, so now we get this.
Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, we still have people that will pound their fists that this is all John mara
He was asked about the QB situation and he said 'the owner' twice. He didn't speak to eith player's strengths or weaknesses, he said 'he' s the owner.... We are on the same page...you heard if from the owner'
It's super super easy to say that Eli is playing lights-out football. It's super super easy to say Jones is coming along nicely but you can't expect him to beat out a 15 year vet and 2x superbowl MVP. It's super easy to say that he is going to play the best man that gives him the best chance to win.
He goes out of his way to make sure he doesn't say any of tjose things. He only says 'Eli is the starter, you heard it from the owner'.
It's not a conspiracy theory is just obvious to anyone that has ever had to defer to a boss and say 'it is what it is, if that' s what they want I have to do it'.
Talk about cherry picking. If you are going to Quote shurmur then quote exactly what he said instead of taking a sentence or two to fit your agenda...
I think I’ve been saying it all along. I just get a sense once in a while that when I answer those questions nobody believes me.
I believe he thinks a qb controversy will be detrimental to the team in a ny media market. I disagree personally but I think that's his primary concern. I think he took people aside(not just Shurmur but lots of people) and said "I don't want this summer to turn into a QB controversy"
I think he believes a rookie can not possibly be as good as Eli. I think he believes that time on the bench will benefit Jones. I think he is trying to do the best thing for the team but it is just outdated thinking and marred by emotional ties to the Manning family.
It's not "nefarious" it's just not rational amd not supported by recent history. It has hamstrung the coaching staff and it has influenced the beat reporters whose career is predicated on access to the team and the facilities.
It's not evil, it's just not prudent.
Or is that completely unimportant to you?
I'm ambivalent to it. Like I said - Jones has gotten reps with the 1's in preseason games and in the individual passing drills in practice, he's throwing to all the receivers, so I'm not sure there is an issue. My hope is that he's ready to step in and play, and if the season goes South, he becomes the starter.
Should it be important for him to get reps? Does it delay his development by not getting those reps?
I believe he thinks a qb controversy will be detrimental to the team in a ny media market. I disagree personally but I think that's his primary concern. I think he took people aside(not just Shurmur but lots of people) and said "I don't want this summer to turn into a QB controversy"
I think he believes a rookie can not possibly be as good as Eli. I think he believes that time on the bench will benefit Jones. I think he is trying to do the best thing for the team but it is just outdated thinking and marred by emotional ties to the Manning family.
It's not "nefarious" it's just not rational amd not supported by recent history. It has hamstrung the coaching staff and it has influenced the beat reporters whose career is predicated on access to the team and the facilities.
It's not evil, it's just not prudent.
So do you believe Mara is forcing the coaches to give Eli all the snaps. And if so, why wouldn't that be "nefarious"?
The mopey feeling that 'nobody believes me' usually comes about when you are being deceitful. It's a natural emotional reponse.
When you are being clear and honest and people question your word you tend to get angry or indifferent. You will see a lot of both in this thread
Its also my theory that approach is not in the best long term interest of the franchise.
At the same time, I don't think that decision is going to set the franchise back decades or any other hyperbolic argument you will make on my behalf.
No. I believe Mara said "We can't let this turn into a qb controversy, we have to avoid that at all costs"
And the coaching staff and the PR department and the beat writers mostly did what they could to follow that directive to the best of their ability. I don't think Mara was dictating snap counts, I think a coach with a losing record was making sure he didn't piss off the owner. Understandable for sure.
I also think Shurmur gave a clue to future employers that he was taking orders re: DJ and Eli.
'I was just following orders from my employers' isn't the worst defense in a job intervier with future employers
I think way too much is being read into things here, including Shurmur's press conference statement. He was joking about Mara.
I'm pretty sure this is a fluid situation where if eli struggles or the team gets off to a slow start that Jones will play. If the team is eliminated from contention that Jones will play.
Unless you disagree with that, I'm not sure what the practice reps pertain to.
It's not his job to develop Jones or even look in the long-term interest of the team. That managements job.
I don't believe they'll make a switch at the first signs of struggle and it's my opinion that if they wait for mathematical of elimination excited and 17 , they will have waited too long.
We will all just have to wait and see how this all plays out. I'm willing to do that anyway
Talk to text on an old iPhone with the cracked screen isn't doing me any favors today
Talk to text on an old iPhone with the cracked screen isn't doing me any favors today
Lol my chinese phone with the extremely iffy spellcheck after 8 beers isn't doing much better
Opposing that, you have statements by Mara, Gettleman, and Shurmer on the record saying it's the coach's decision.
Seems like a reasonable thing to choose up sides upon.
If you think we shouldn't question anything the team does or says, I don't think message boards are for you.
If you think we shouldn't question anything the team does or says, I don't think message boards are for you.
I don't think it's inappropriate to question things. But baseless speculation on Mara saying or doing or instructing anything is not questioning things. It's manufacturing them.
Do you think that call was entirely made by Shurmur?
Do you think the owner wont have a say on the fate of the franchises most iconic players?
Its not like I'm saying the moon landing was faked here.
Do you think that call was entirely made by Shurmur?
Do you think the owner wont have a say on the fate of the franchises most iconic players?
Its not like I'm saying the moon landing was faked here.
I do believe you are.
Do you think that call was entirely made by Shurmur?
Do you think the owner wont have a say on the fate of the franchises most iconic players?
Its not like I'm saying the moon landing was faked here.
Every incumbent is the de facto starter until proven otherwise. Why would you think that is unusual.
You also have, and I keep coming back to this, because it completely is in contrast to your Mara statements, which are all conjecture, actual quotes from Mara, Shurmer, and Gettleman that dispute your speculation.
Even look at last year. Even Mayfield was sitting behind Taylor until an injury while Darnold started Day 1 because of a lack of an incumbent. That's not unusual in the least. The Chiefs traded up for Mahomes and he sat behind Smith.
What actually would be unusual is to have a proven starter and give the rookie a lot of time with the 1's just because of his draft status.
But acknowledging that takes a critical piece away from the contrarian view...
The real question is do you move on from Eli if you can still make a run for the playoffs or do you go to the rookie. I think they should definitely go to Jones in this situation as nothing about this team says it is Superbowl bound
That Mara is exerting special influence to have eli take as many snaps as possible. Hell, it is even intimated that Mara is putting pressure on Shurmur to make sure that happens, including a bizarre interpretation on what it means that Eli hasn't been given a day off.