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NFT: Disney has abandoned the Middle Class model ....

Manny in CA : 8/19/2019 5:34 pm

https://www.businessinsider.com/disney-world-expensive-middle-class-2018-12

I remember when our kids were little in the 79s & 80s, my wife and I could easily afford to take them to Disneyland any time we wanted to.

A young family today with three kids is not getting off for less than $700 a day after tickets, food and a few "cheap" toys and hats.

I think that it's more than artificially trying to keep the crowds down; the real targets are the lower middle class and the poor.
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Sorry  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/20/2019 11:35 am : link
confused Fast Pass with the one they have at Universal.
RE: Walt Steadnow Enterprises has done a masterful job  
BMac : 8/20/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14536265 Red Dog said:
Quote:
Something like half the people in the country don't have $5,000 to cover an emergency, and no real savings for retirement, often because they spent it on Walt Dizzy attractions or cell phones or cruises to the Caribbean or something else that they don't need.


I think that number is closer to $400...it certainly isn't as high as $5000.
RE: RE: and  
BMac : 8/20/2019 11:46 am : link
In comment 14536331 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14536310 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


re: commercials. I am convinced that some of these companies could run the same ads from the 1970s-1980s and still be more effective.

People remember things like "Where's the beef?", "Don't squeeze the Charmin," "I'd like to buy the world a Coke," etc.

Now it's just bland, boring, and unforgettable.



This is a great point.

I often wonder how effective some ads even are or if companies even care.

A lot of times people don't even know what the commercial was for since it has nothing to do with the product.

Miller Lite commercials were classic
Energizer Bunny
Heinz ketchup (anticipation)
Oscar Meyer
Hey Kool-Aid

I'm sure there are more...


Schultz and Dooley for Utica Club beer!
A bunch of old people pining for the old days...  
RC in MD : 8/20/2019 12:09 pm : link
yawn...
Taking my family in mid-January  
bigbluehoya : 8/20/2019 12:38 pm : link
in conjunction with a trip to Florida for my sister-in-law's wedding. Me, wife, and 3 kids (one will only be about 8 months old, so really 2 kids).

Based on the 45 minutes of research I've pieced together thus far, tickets for 3 days are going to run me somewhere in the vicinity of $1600. Add another few hundred for the 1 day I'm asusuming we'll shoot over to Universal Studios.

Flights are basically on the arm (been banking the AmEx points for this for some time).

Accomodations will be about $1k -- we are renting a pretty cool house off-premises about 15 minutes away with my wife's other siblings and their families.

Add in food/beverage/souvenirs/etc and I'll probably be in for $5-6k when all is said and done.

I'm grateful that we can afford to do it, and I'm excited for it, but it most definitely represents the 'big vacation' for the year.
so tickets come out to basically $140pp, per day  
Eric on Li : 8/20/2019 1:03 pm : link
not sure if your kids have been before but my experience is it's the single easiest "win" for a parent there is in terms of guaranteeing a fun time for kids for a full day of activities. I've only done disneyland as a parent and with world being bigger and having more stuff i'd guess that's even more true there. To me that's a reasonable value considering the alternatives for full day activities (or even multiple partial day activities) are usually a lot more hit or miss. If you get bad weather at sporting event or a bad game, etc. I've been at disney with bad weather too and you can manage it a lot better by doing the indoor stuff than having kids in the rain at a baseball stadium.
RE: Taking my family in mid-January  
RC in MD : 8/20/2019 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14536833 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
in conjunction with a trip to Florida for my sister-in-law's wedding. Me, wife, and 3 kids (one will only be about 8 months old, so really 2 kids).

Based on the 45 minutes of research I've pieced together thus far, tickets for 3 days are going to run me somewhere in the vicinity of $1600. Add another few hundred for the 1 day I'm asusuming we'll shoot over to Universal Studios.

Flights are basically on the arm (been banking the AmEx points for this for some time).

Accomodations will be about $1k -- we are renting a pretty cool house off-premises about 15 minutes away with my wife's other siblings and their families.

Add in food/beverage/souvenirs/etc and I'll probably be in for $5-6k when all is said and done.

I'm grateful that we can afford to do it, and I'm excited for it, but it most definitely represents the 'big vacation' for the year.


We're also planning on taking our kids at the end of January next year. The last time we went was when my oldest was 4 and now she's 8 with her brother being 4 and her sister being 1. I know that my kids will enjoy the shit out of it, and that's really the most important thing.

And to add to the ongoing discussions on other terrible Disney products, etc. My kids have absolutely enjoyed getting to watch Marvel movies. They're for entertainment purposes, and people are being entertained. We forget that aspect when we pine of the past like it was some golden age of anything. Bleh.
Marvel movies get a really bad rap, IMO  
UConn4523 : 8/20/2019 1:13 pm : link
I don't like most superhero movies but there's no doubt in how much they pack into the films, and what it takes to bering characters like this to life. Overkill? Sure, IMO. But it hardly dampens the industry. If anything its allowed these studios some flexibility on profit margins to cushion for losses that may occur if new IP doesn't work out.

Shit like Skyscraper and The Wall I can absolutely do without, those are definitely made for the Asian markets. But I just don't go to them. Instead I'll look into the endless library of Indie movies that are streaming or will go to a boutique theater to check something out. There's a ton of great stuff no one has or will ever see.
RE: Marvel movies get a really bad rap, IMO  
RC in MD : 8/20/2019 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14536912 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I don't like most superhero movies but there's no doubt in how much they pack into the films, and what it takes to bering characters like this to life. Overkill? Sure, IMO. But it hardly dampens the industry. If anything its allowed these studios some flexibility on profit margins to cushion for losses that may occur if new IP doesn't work out.

Shit like Skyscraper and The Wall I can absolutely do without, those are definitely made for the Asian markets. But I just don't go to them. Instead I'll look into the endless library of Indie movies that are streaming or will go to a boutique theater to check something out. There's a ton of great stuff no one has or will ever see.


And I agree with you that acting today is far better than back in the day. We can talk about all the great creative ideas from the past, but they still were shitty creative ideas with so many plot holes and other nonsenses that we just overlooked.

Today, some of the smaller studio movies are amazing pieces of cinematic art.

In the end though, movies are all subjective.
All movies are subjective  
Greg from LI : 8/20/2019 1:20 pm : link
Except comic book movies, which are collectively a skidmark on mass culture.
RE: UConn4523  
Mike in Long Beach : 8/20/2019 1:26 pm : link
In comment 14536306 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I'll watch movies from any era. When I was 10, I was watching films from the 1930s.

Movies are shit now. They keep coming out with remakes, reboots, sequels, God knows how many super hero movies (they've ruined the genre for me), and and endless and bland action films catered to not culturally offend overseas audiences, particularly in China (who has way too much influence in Hollywood).

It's boring. It's lazy.

When ticket and concession prices go through the roof, of course the $$$ figures still look good. And our population is larger than ever. But don't tell me the movies are better than ever. That's absurd.


This is mostly incorrect. Yes, there are more reboots and cash-cow type films than ever, but it doesn't mean the good movies have just disappeared. Not to over-simplify it, but if you go to Rotten Tomatoes' "Best of the Year" lists, yes you'll have a couple super hero movies sprinkled in, but you'll also see a ton of films that you'd never have heard of if you only went by the commercials you saw.

In fact, I think it's fair to say that--in a round-about way--the influx of cookie-cutter super hero films is beneficial to film making. Reason being, these studios love toting their resume when they have a bunch of Oscar-nominated/award-heavy movies. But much of the time, those movies don't make very much money, and that's if they're lucky enough to not lose money. But when the studios have the super hero movies pulling in literally billions of dollars, they're far more inclined to take the loss on the good films, produce them, and then pat themselves on the back for having critically acclaimed cinema in their portfolios. Without the influx of cash, the studios wouldn't give the true creators the liberty to create authentic film. They'd push for the movies to, simply be, what sells.. and then we wouldn't have some of the best movies that have been made over the last decade.
RE: Taking my family in mid-January  
Ron from Ninerland : 8/20/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14536833 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
in conjunction with a trip to Florida for my sister-in-law's wedding. Me, wife, and 3 kids (one will only be about 8 months old, so really 2 kids).

Based on the 45 minutes of research I've pieced together thus far, tickets for 3 days are going to run me somewhere in the vicinity of $1600. Add another few hundred for the 1 day I'm asusuming we'll shoot over to Universal Studios.

Flights are basically on the arm (been banking the AmEx points for this for some time).

Accomodations will be about $1k -- we are renting a pretty cool house off-premises about 15 minutes away with my wife's other siblings and their families.

Add in food/beverage/souvenirs/etc and I'll probably be in for $5-6k when all is said and done.

I'm grateful that we can afford to do it, and I'm excited for it, but it most definitely represents the 'big vacation' for the year.
Your estimate for the price of tickets may be a tad high. Right now Disney is offering a discount for tickets with the restriction that you don't show up before 12 N. Since you're staying at a house off site and you have an 8 month old, you're probably not getting there before 12 Noon. A 3 day adult pass will run you about $250.00. Kids under 10 are less and the 8 mo old will be free.
RE: All movies are subjective  
RC in MD : 8/20/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14536931 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Except comic book movies, which are collectively a skidmark on mass culture.


You shut your suckhole!
RE: RE: Taking my family in mid-January  
bigbluehoya : 8/20/2019 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14536969 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
In comment 14536833 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


in conjunction with a trip to Florida for my sister-in-law's wedding. Me, wife, and 3 kids (one will only be about 8 months old, so really 2 kids).

Based on the 45 minutes of research I've pieced together thus far, tickets for 3 days are going to run me somewhere in the vicinity of $1600. Add another few hundred for the 1 day I'm asusuming we'll shoot over to Universal Studios.

Flights are basically on the arm (been banking the AmEx points for this for some time).

Accomodations will be about $1k -- we are renting a pretty cool house off-premises about 15 minutes away with my wife's other siblings and their families.

Add in food/beverage/souvenirs/etc and I'll probably be in for $5-6k when all is said and done.

I'm grateful that we can afford to do it, and I'm excited for it, but it most definitely represents the 'big vacation' for the year.

Your estimate for the price of tickets may be a tad high. Right now Disney is offering a discount for tickets with the restriction that you don't show up before 12 N. Since you're staying at a house off site and you have an 8 month old, you're probably not getting there before 12 Noon. A 3 day adult pass will run you about $250.00. Kids under 10 are less and the 8 mo old will be free.


Thank you, Ron! - something I need to find a few minutes to look at later!
quick side note - movie concession prices  
bigbluehoya : 8/20/2019 1:59 pm : link
I don't go to the movies much at all. Recently took my 2 kids to see a flick, and was pleasantly shocked when each of the "Kids' combos" (small fountain drink, popcorn, fruit snacks) were only $7.99 each. I know that's basically all still profit to the theater, but in my head I had figured i was getting banged for $30 easy on kids food/snacks.
RE: quick side note - movie concession prices  
RC in MD : 8/20/2019 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14536991 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
I don't go to the movies much at all. Recently took my 2 kids to see a flick, and was pleasantly shocked when each of the "Kids' combos" (small fountain drink, popcorn, fruit snacks) were only $7.99 each. I know that's basically all still profit to the theater, but in my head I had figured i was getting banged for $30 easy on kids food/snacks.


I do the same for my two older ones whenever we take them out to the movies (well, one parent since the other stays home with the baby). It's not a bad deal with all things being considered on how expensive things can get in trying to have fun with kids for a few hours when you just want to relax in a climate controlled place.
Arguing about eras in movies  
AJ23 : 8/20/2019 2:03 pm : link
is like arguing about eras in sports. Completely different games... Useless endeavor.

Of course the quality appears to have diminished. There are 700+ feature films released in the US per year these days, and that number was near 100 in 1980.

Of course actors appear to "act better" in 2019. Look at the technology we have and the resources available to actors.
RE: RE: All movies are subjective  
Greg from LI : 8/20/2019 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14536972 RC in MD said:
Quote:
You shut your suckhole!


Aye aye, sir, corporal don't know.
most theaters have super Tuesdays  
UConn4523 : 8/20/2019 2:22 pm : link
your ticket, soda and popcorn would be less than $12 per person. That's a great deal, IMO. You also don't need to have anything, or can bring in some candy. Seeing people ordering hot dogs, nachos, etc at a theater makes me laugh, just eat better, and cheaper food before the show starts.

So complaining about concession prices is kinda pointless. It isn't mandatory, and you don't "need" it. My kid likes popcorn (which we split) and I bring in water bottle for her. Doesn't need to be anything more than that, IMO. I'm in/out for about $20 with her on a weekend morning.
RE: I don't care much for Disney  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/20/2019 2:54 pm : link
In comment 14536236 jcn56 said:
Quote:
scratch that - I don't like it at all - save for a few of the classic movies, and they're far removed from that Disney.

Having said that - is there any entertainment that's not ridiculously overpriced relative to a decade or two ago? Not sporting events. Not concert tickets. Movies are not cheap, but they're probably the closest thing to a "bargain" relative to past pricing. I don't know if their pricing has gone off the rails, or if they're just like everything else discretionary, priced high because people are willing to pay it.

Define overpriced. If something is priced to a level that no one is buying it, that's overpriced. If it's even priced to the point where there is distressed inventory, it's overpriced.

If a service/product/attraction is selling to full capacity (and doing so far in advance), it's not overpriced. If anything, it's underpriced, purely in terms of pricing.

Just because something isn't necessarily affordable for everyone doesn't make it overpriced, as long as the seller has identified enough customers who can afford it.

This (along with the examples you listed) is simply a function of demand far outpacing supply.

Even if Disney decided to use its theme parks as a loss leader and price their entry fee in such a way that it was accessible to every income level, the demand would surge to an extent that it wouldn't result in any additional people gaining access, just (potentially) different people. And it would remain out of reach of others because there just isn't enough supply to satisfy demand.

And if they then reacted to that by increasing supply (without any infrastructure changes), the customer experience would suffer. Or they could make capital improvements to help increase their supply level, but remember, we just slashed prices to help make the theme parks affordable. I guess we'll have to increase those prices back up to generate enough revenue to allow those improvements to be self-liquidating.

Pricing is a balance. A lot of people fall on the wrong side of that balance because a lot of what they want are luxury items that they probably can't really afford. It's no fun to be on the wrong side of the balance, but it doesn't mean those things are overpriced.
RE: A bunch of old people pining for the old days...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/20/2019 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14536751 RC in MD said:
Quote:
yawn...


Not at all. If you're a kid, cartoons are way better today. Non-network TV is way better.

I'll stick with what I said...movies, music, advertising have deteriorated.
RE: RE: A bunch of old people pining for the old days...  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/20/2019 4:09 pm : link
In comment 14537153 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14536751 RC in MD said:


Quote:


yawn...



Not at all. If you're a kid, cartoons are way better today. Non-network TV is way better.

I'll stick with what I said...movies, music, advertising have deteriorated.

Advertising hasn't deteriorated that much - look at how many people complain about wanting things they feel like they can't afford!
just be aware that concessions are the only way theaters make money  
Greg from LI : 8/20/2019 4:29 pm : link
You want to get angry at someone about popcorn and soda costing so much, blame the studios who charge such enormous fees for screening movies that gouging viewers at the concession stands is the only way the theater can generate a profit.
Complaining about the deteriotion of music is an old man move  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/20/2019 5:46 pm : link
since time immemorial. If the first instrument was a dude banging two rocks together and the next generation came up with banging sticks on rocks the guy banging rocks together would bitch about how music sucks now.
RE: Complaining about the deteriotion of music is an old man move  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/20/2019 9:03 pm : link
In comment 14537367 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
since time immemorial. If the first instrument was a dude banging two rocks together and the next generation came up with banging sticks on rocks the guy banging rocks together would bitch about how music sucks now.


No, there is actual measurable proof. I doubt you will really take the 12 minutes to actually watch this, but if you do, you will see what I'm talking about.
The Death of Melody - ( New Window )
Disney owns a ton of land in South Florida...  
Tesla : 8/20/2019 9:23 pm : link
they'd never do this but I wonder if it would make sense to build a second Magic Kingdom Park right next to the original. Make it identical to the first one in every way....just as a way to bring more visitors in and alleviate some of the insane crowds they get.
RE: RE: Complaining about the deteriotion of music is an old man move  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/20/2019 9:27 pm : link
In comment 14537548 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14537367 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


since time immemorial. If the first instrument was a dude banging two rocks together and the next generation came up with banging sticks on rocks the guy banging rocks together would bitch about how music sucks now.



No, there is actual measurable proof. I doubt you will really take the 12 minutes to actually watch this, but if you do, you will see what I'm talking about. The Death of Melody - ( New Window )


He referenced songs that were hitting the top of the charts. Chart toppers are practically inconsequential now due to the dearth of options available. It isn't 1985 where the number 1 on the charts was universally known by every single person in the country (recent exception Old Town Road). Everyone my age or younger uses Spotify. I wouldn't be surprised that the death of melody comes at a time when pop music is just used as background music at bars and clubs. Something easy to digest, you can sing along with, and hypnotic. I don't really listen to modern rap, but that is an art form that doesn't rely on melody at all. If melody is what you are searching for there is a ton of it out there.
I can tell your out of your depth on music too  
UConn4523 : 8/20/2019 9:31 pm : link
there is so much innovative music out there, which is incredible to think about considering there's only so many sounds/patterns/melodies that can exist. New styles of music are continually made each decade, but yeah, lets chalk everything up to Cardi B.

I actually clicked your link and shockingly (not really) most of what's in there is comparing today's pop music with yesterdays top musicians like Led Zeppelin. You are once again confusing what's popular with what's actually out there, and not only that, but you aren't even discussing the utter trash music that has existed in any era.

I don't care for pop music, but there's other genres out there that are great, that didn't exist even a decade ago, let along 30/40 years ago. Does that not count for anything? Why is pop music the benchmark of your argument? It wouldn't have anything to do with you broadstroke "hollywood" argument, would it?
I listed to your link Eric...  
Tesla : 8/20/2019 9:53 pm : link
I thought it was pretty interesting. But Uconn is right, that guy is picking a few #1 hits to make his point. I think most of the stuff on the radio is crap....but there is a TON of great music out there if you look for it.

Here's a song with some melody by a local Brooklyn band....take 4 minutes to listen to it and tell me that melody is still dead in today's music (the video is a bit odd though).
Sonsick by San Fermin - ( New Window )
Disney was my customer for 6 years...  
EricJ : 8/21/2019 12:07 am : link
and I was working closely with the parks and resorts. They are often sold out and yeah it is a supply and demand thing.

They are always testing their price elasticity and any dips in attendance or usually due to factors other than price. Weather, alligators, etc

Disney gets about 65 million visitors per year. They are not all upper class. It is a destination that people choose to save $$ for.
I'm not old, just turned 36.  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/21/2019 12:34 am : link
And movies do indeed mostly suck now. It's mostly (awful) remakes of movies from the 80's and 90's, or super-hero movies.

Wow. How creative! There's a tiny bit of decent stuff out there. But by and large, woof. Hollywood certainly is not in it's most creative, inventive, or even just good quality time period for these last however many years it's been now. It can rebound when someone comes up with something original that's good, but man, it's been awhile since that's happened. Hoping that happens sooner than later. I love going to the movies, and there's barely a reason to go these days. And I'm not even one of those people that have a big problem with movie ticket prices or anything like that.
There is a sub-set of Disney's customer base  
Knineteen : 8/21/2019 12:37 am : link
that is loyal to a fault; it should really be classified as a mental disorder. Unfortunately, I know more than a few people that fit into this class, some of them being family members. Essentially, Disney can do no wrong in their eyes. These people hold the company to absolutely no standard. It's this mentality that really hurts all of us.

I will say, this is the one area where competition doesn't benefit the consumer. In Orlando...Disney, Universal and Sea World are all horrifically expensive. Universal alone wanted $750 just to take my family of 4 for the day and that didn't include their line skipping option.
RE: There is a sub-set of Disney's customer base  
section125 : 8/21/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14537689 Knineteen said:
Quote:
that is loyal to a fault; it should really be classified as a mental disorder. Unfortunately, I know more than a few people that fit into this class, some of them being family members. Essentially, Disney can do no wrong in their eyes. These people hold the company to absolutely no standard. It's this mentality that really hurts all of us.

I will say, this is the one area where competition doesn't benefit the consumer. In Orlando...Disney, Universal and Sea World are all horrifically expensive. Universal alone wanted $750 just to take my family of 4 for the day and that didn't include their line skipping option.


Is it any more an issue than people who live and die with their favorite sports team(s)?
And yes it is a way of life for some(a lot) of people and I mean a way of life - I know a few.

As far as I am concerned, the fast pass thing should go away.
agreed  
UConn4523 : 8/21/2019 9:39 am : link
I find spending thousands on season tickets to sports teams to be a waste, but I can atleast admit that's my opinion and realize going to these events mean more to others than it does/would to me. Adults spending $200 on authentic jerseys I'll never understand either.
I have a friend - a gown 40-year old man - who drunk  
pjcas18 : 8/21/2019 9:44 am : link
ordered an authentic Celtics jersey with #34 and Barkley on the back.

He woke up the next afternoon and saw an email receipt and had vague recollections of it.

he actually wears out in the summer sometimes and I will say it's a legit conversation starter - though he did have some regerts.



Fast pass is supposed to serve the purpose of assisting  
Matt M. : 8/21/2019 10:13 am : link
those with special needs, right? Or is it available to anyone willing to pony up?
RE: There is a sub-set of Disney's customer base  
PatersonPlank : 8/21/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14537689 Knineteen said:
Quote:
that is loyal to a fault; it should really be classified as a mental disorder. Unfortunately, I know more than a few people that fit into this class, some of them being family members. Essentially, Disney can do no wrong in their eyes. These people hold the company to absolutely no standard. It's this mentality that really hurts all of us.

I will say, this is the one area where competition doesn't benefit the consumer. In Orlando...Disney, Universal and Sea World are all horrifically expensive. Universal alone wanted $750 just to take my family of 4 for the day and that didn't include their line skipping option.


This is me. I love Disney, I admit it.
RE: Fast pass is supposed to serve the purpose of assisting  
section125 : 8/21/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14537989 Matt M. said:
Quote:
those with special needs, right? Or is it available to anyone willing to pony up?


For all, and there is no charge. It is now an app that allows you to sign up for a designated slot with a 10 minute window. People with needs have their own access(I believe they use the Fast Pass line.(?)
RE: RE: Fast pass is supposed to serve the purpose of assisting  
Jim in Fairfax : 8/21/2019 11:03 am : link
In comment 14538017 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14537989 Matt M. said:


Quote:


those with special needs, right? Or is it available to anyone willing to pony up?



For all, and there is no charge. It is now an app that allows you to sign up for a designated slot with a 10 minute window. People with needs have their own access(I believe they use the Fast Pass line.(?)


People with special needs can get a return time at any attraction, not just those with Fastpass. The return time is based on the current wait time for the attraction.
Man  
figgy2989 : 8/21/2019 11:20 am : link
Reading this thread is giving me anxiety. My boys are 2 and 4 and we wanted to wait until the little guy was at least 5 to go down to Disney.

I may have to remortgage my house to pay for the trip.
RE: RE: There is a sub-set of Disney's customer base  
Knineteen : 8/21/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14537842 section125 said:
Quote:
Is it any more an issue than people who live and die with their favorite sports team(s)?
And yes it is a way of life for some(a lot) of people and I mean a way of life - I know a few.

As far as I am concerned, the fast pass thing should go away.

They are the exact same thing and I've said that all along. Both Disney-fanatics and sports-fanatics ruin it for the rest of us. When you don't think with your wallet and don't hold these companies to any sort of standard, they will continue to grind out profit at any cost.
RE: Man  
x meadowlander : 8/21/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14538111 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Reading this thread is giving me anxiety. My boys are 2 and 4 and we wanted to wait until the little guy was at least 5 to go down to Disney.

I may have to remortgage my house to pay for the trip.
Took my 3 boys twice.

Second time, we drove. I was fucking Griswold, 5 of us, Binghamton to Orlando.

Was actually a great vacation, because I PLANNED THE FUCK out of that trip.

Each day, I'd be up early, scrubbing the park map, figuring out the best way to use fastpasses - back then, they were available to EVERYONE. New, classist systems are against the spirit of the park. Should be OUTLAWED, man!

My youngest on that second trip - Billy was 9 and REFUSED to go on anything remotely threatening. So I literally dragged him kicking and screaming across the parks, from Space Mountain to the Aerosmith coaster - he even tried to back out of the Haunted Mansion, and every damned time - 10 seconds into the ride, he's hootin and hollerin and loving it, would want to get right back in line afterward!

Then it would be the same thing heading to the next ride. I literally had bruises on my legs and arms from the little shit, but I wasn't going to let him miss it.

So - fair warning. If they're ride wimps, they'll drive you nuts.

Also - BE PREPARED if you're not used to 100 degrees, 100% humidity. Those parks are a gauntlet if you're not in shape.
RE: RE: RE: There is a sub-set of Disney's customer base  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/21/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14538298 Knineteen said:
Quote:
In comment 14537842 section125 said:


Quote:


Is it any more an issue than people who live and die with their favorite sports team(s)?
And yes it is a way of life for some(a lot) of people and I mean a way of life - I know a few.

As far as I am concerned, the fast pass thing should go away.


They are the exact same thing and I've said that all along. Both Disney-fanatics and sports-fanatics ruin it for the rest of us. When you don't think with your wallet and don't hold these companies to any sort of standard, they will continue to grind out profit at any cost.

Whether or not you realize it, you probably "ruin it" for someone else with whatever things you enjoy beyond a rational level. It could be a pizza place that you order from more often than your neighbors, thereby keeping the pizza place from needing to put out a coupon. It could be a store that you shop in that would have to run a sale if it wasn't for the clothes you buy.

It's impossible to price in a way that disregards the most avid customer because they're still going to beat you to the purchase at a lower price too. If it wasn't price elasticity, it would be willingness to wait in line, and if it wasn't that, it would be something else. The people who want something more than you do will find a way to buy it, even if it means that it has a ripple effect that deprives others of access.

The flip side to all of that is that frugal consumers can just as easily "ruin it" for others by allowing businesses to close, or causing businesses to produce less inventory, etc. A lot of times a band books a venue and puts one (or two or however many) performances on sale, with optional performances hidden behind it. If sales are slow, those optional performances never happen; if sales are strong, the optionals go on sale to the public. When a band you'd like to see never puts on those optional shows, who did the ruining?

Water seeks its own level, and so does consumerism.
RE: RE: RE: Fast pass is supposed to serve the purpose of assisting  
Dunedin81 : 8/21/2019 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14538095 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 14538017 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14537989 Matt M. said:


Quote:


those with special needs, right? Or is it available to anyone willing to pony up?



For all, and there is no charge. It is now an app that allows you to sign up for a designated slot with a 10 minute window. People with needs have their own access(I believe they use the Fast Pass line.(?)



People with special needs can get a return time at any attraction, not just those with Fastpass. The return time is based on the current wait time for the attraction.


That's consistent across most large theme parks, and was very helpful for my wife for the rides she was able to undertake.
RE: RE: RE: RE: There is a sub-set of Disney's customer base  
Knineteen : 8/21/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14538395 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
Whether or not you realize it, you probably "ruin it" for someone else with whatever things you enjoy beyond a rational level. It could be a pizza place that you order from more often than your neighbors, thereby keeping the pizza place from needing to put out a coupon. It could be a store that you shop in that would have to run a sale if it wasn't for the clothes you buy.

It's impossible to price in a way that disregards the most avid customer because they're still going to beat you to the purchase at a lower price too. If it wasn't price elasticity, it would be willingness to wait in line, and if it wasn't that, it would be something else. The people who want something more than you do will find a way to buy it, even if it means that it has a ripple effect that deprives others of access.

The flip side to all of that is that frugal consumers can just as easily "ruin it" for others by allowing businesses to close, or causing businesses to produce less inventory, etc. A lot of times a band books a venue and puts one (or two or however many) performances on sale, with optional performances hidden behind it. If sales are slow, those optional performances never happen; if sales are strong, the optionals go on sale to the public. When a band you'd like to see never puts on those optional shows, who did the ruining?

Water seeks its own level, and so does consumerism.

I guess my point is, these consumers will complain about X,Y or Z...yet they don't actually do anything to force companies to change.

Over the past couple decades, Disney has become significantly (and insanely) more expensive while cutting the product. Disney in 2000 is NOT the same product as Disney today. Visitors will bitch and complain but at the end of the day they still fork over their cash and allow the company to do as they please. It's this blind loyalty that hurts us all.

If the majority of Disney's consumer base became frugal, the company would have no choice but to lower prices and/or offer a better product. But just like a drug-dealer with addicted clients, there is a sub-set of the customer base who will go at any cost. While purely anecdotal, I know a couple families who can barely support themselves financially, yet they visit Disney annually. It's somewhat mind-blowing.
Itís 2 fold  
UConn4523 : 8/21/2019 5:13 pm : link
first, you can apply that to anything thatís taken a dip in quality. Itís simple to preach but hard to execute enough to matter. Second, most people go to Disney due to A they feel differently about the product than you do and/or B they want to fulfill for their children what they got to experience as a child.

I can take or leave Disney but when itís time to bring my now 4 year old I will deal with the bullshit because sheís going to be over the moon about going. Iím also not opposed to going in October during a school week when Disney is at its cheapest and slowest 2-3 weeks of the year.
I do understand that it's subjective  
Knineteen : 8/21/2019 7:49 pm : link
However, the parks are open less now than they use to be. 9/10 pm close during the summertime was unheard of 15 years ago. They are also getting in the habit of shutting down rides BEFORE the park actually closes.
There hasn't been very many meaningful attraction openings in the past 10 years. Resort pools shut-down at 10pm nightly, etc, etc. I could go on and on. Even Disney is indirectly acknowledging the lack of product as they have invested heavily to add attractions over the next 3-5 years.
It's a multi-faceted game ...  
Manny in CA : 8/22/2019 1:49 pm : link

- Which is the point of the article -

The economy is doing well, more people can afford to go, which is good for business, sort-of ...

Customers have to wait in unending lines at the rides (this dilutes the experience, especially for the deep-pocket folks, who have plenty of other entertainment choices).

The choice is easy, boost the prices, keeping the "unwashed masses" away; carefully move toward a "gourmet" experience (eliminating the elbow-to-elbow aggravation) and make a ton of money.
RE: It's a multi-faceted game ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/22/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14539454 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

- Which is the point of the article -

The economy is doing well, more people can afford to go, which is good for business, sort-of ...

Customers have to wait in unending lines at the rides (this dilutes the experience, especially for the deep-pocket folks, who have plenty of other entertainment choices).

The choice is easy, boost the prices, keeping the "unwashed masses" away; carefully move toward a "gourmet" experience (eliminating the elbow-to-elbow aggravation) and make a ton of money.

Wrong.

It's knowing that you have a finite amount of product to sell and pricing that product so that your demand curve only slightly outpaces your supply curve. All you need to do is count up all the widgets you have to sell (n) and then find the highest price you can where n+1 people will still buy your widgets. It's very simple.

There's no nefarious effort to box out the great unwashed in favor of some gourmet bullshit. There's no lack of elbow to elbow crowds even with their pricing as is. The goal isn't to eliminate anyone (or their elbows).

Lay off the tube, Manny. It's barely noon where you are.
Gator, it's not all about Keynesian theory ...  
Manny in CA : 8/23/2019 4:13 pm : link

I'm talking customer experience; if you have enough deep pocket customers, (who are willing to pay more) why not try not to treat them like canned sardines ?

As a parent, try to manage three (or more) hyper-excited kids in line for a hour or more, and not lose them.

Our family has experienced this terrifying situation a couple of times; thankfully the kids were old enough to find someone that could help them.

The other factor is equipment fatigue; the machines are only designed for an "X"number of runs. After that they break down, and disaster waits.

So no, it's much more complicated than supply & demand.

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