Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Why do we question Pat Shurmur's qualifications?

Nolan64 : 8/20/2019 1:37 pm
As far as I know Pat Shurmur is a highly regarded and respected coach in the NFL. He has worked under some of the games most innovative minds in Andy Reid and, yes even, Chip Kelly. Nick Foles' 27-2 TD to INT ratio, the Minneapolis Miracle, and I don't think Keenum, Diggs and Thielen would have been as productive in 2017 without the eventual Asst. Coach of the Year. It can't just be because of his 2 years in the dumpster fire that was Cleveland.
.  
Danny Kanell : 8/20/2019 1:52 pm : link
He's 15-34 as an NFL head coach.
RE: .  
kinard : 8/20/2019 2:00 pm : link
In comment 14536975 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
He's 15-34 as an NFL head coach.


Like Kanell said above. You are what your record says you are.

Three years as a head coach is pretty decent sample size. I saw the way he managed games last year and thought he was below average. The Giants lost a bunch of close games last year and you have to wonder if one or two of the coach's decisions could ave made a difference.

He seems like a good guy and I'm rooting hard for him. Like everyone else in the organization, he needs to up his game and get better.
Clock management last year  
RollBlue : 8/20/2019 2:01 pm : link
was not good. Running back to back QB sneaks on the 1 yard line at Atlanta............
RE: .  
Les in TO : 8/20/2019 2:06 pm : link
In comment 14536975 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
He's 15-34 as an NFL head coach.
yup. He may find his stride this year but so far he’s been a loser in three seasons. Some coaches are better off as coordinators
No different than...  
Ryan : 8/20/2019 2:11 pm : link
..any other coach. It's that conundrum that you don't truly have qualifications as a HC until you do as it carries such a different set of responsibilities and expectations than being coordinator or position coach.
RE: .  
TyreeHelmet : 8/20/2019 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14536975 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
He's 15-34 as an NFL head coach.


This. And what has he proven he's good at?
He Has Been  
lax counsel : 8/20/2019 2:17 pm : link
Suspect as an NFL head coach. He is a fantastic coordinator, but the NFL is littered with great coordinators who were awful head coaches. Maybe he turns it around this year.
Belichick  
pjcas18 : 8/20/2019 2:19 pm : link
was questioned not just after Cleveland, but even after winning a super bowl with the under Pats in 2001 after cutting Lawyer Milloy on the eve of the season.

Why shouldn't Shurmur's qualifications be questioned until he has results to show for it?

For me it’s about his ability to provide the leadership a HC  
RDJR : 8/20/2019 2:20 pm : link
Needs to bring to the team in today’s day and age. DG talks a lot about having “adults” in the locker room, but the reality is that these young men are not yet adults in a number of ways. Getting rid of certain players as a way to improve “culture” sounds great, but ultimately a head coach is going to be confronted with situations that determine his fate with a franchise. How he deals with them is more important then X’s and O’s. He can do the X’s and O’s as his stints as a coordinator show. Clearly the jury is still out regarding his ability to lead. We shall see.
His record as a head coach is bad  
Rudy5757 : 8/20/2019 2:40 pm : link
But can anyone honestly say they thought the Giants were a playoff team last year? The teams he coached have been bottom feeders. He has to go out and prove it so he will be questioned until he helps turn this team around but he may have a losing record this season too maybe 6-8 or 7-8 who knows but is that going to show progress or just add to his losing resume?

To me it would be progress. he is in a tough situation right now with the QB situation. Most likely this is Eli's last year and then next year will be with a 1st year starter. Not likely there will be winning seasons but the team has to show progress. Just looking at preseason I see a lot of progress in the talent level, now we have to see it in games.

Jury is out on him still but I dont think you can judge him off of just win - loss record. I think last year he gets a C+ or a B- on overall coaching. Lots of room for improvement but not the worst we have seen.
He has a lot to prove  
antdog24 : 8/20/2019 2:42 pm : link
but I do like the way the team responds to him. He does have that team behind him and playing hard for him even when they are losing. Lets see if he can be more than just a player's coach though.
Proven OC  
JonC : 8/20/2019 2:43 pm : link
HC? Not so much.
i dont  
blueblood : 8/20/2019 2:51 pm : link
thats that
I think its really hard to say what separates successful  
ron mexico : 8/20/2019 2:57 pm : link
coaches from mediocre coaches(which in this league means you are out of a job).

There is a certain alchemy to putting together a winning team that's hard to put your finger on and is usually fleeting.

I guess that's just a complicated way of saying, I have no fucking clue if Pat will be good or not.

Yeah, the Giants won 5 games last year, but the defense was a disaster  
GeofromNJ : 8/20/2019 3:03 pm : link
If the Giants hadn't blown late game leads, they would have won 4 more games and their record would have been 9-7 and we'd be saying Shurmur is our guy. I would give him this year with a slightly improved defense and much better O line.
do his first years a browns coach even count?  
Platos : 8/20/2019 3:07 pm : link
last year was a midseason rebuild. lets see how he does now with "his" guys
RE: .  
outeiroj : 8/20/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14536975 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
He's 15-34 as an NFL head coach.


and you have a losing record as a qb and a qbr in the low 60's yet that enough for you to bash eli and mock the DJ pick?

if your going to question his credentials as a coach based on 2 years in cleveland and a rebuild your with the nyg maybe everyone here should question your ability to evaluate qb talent based on your career as a qb
He's still..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/20/2019 4:30 pm : link
here because the team thinks he has promise and has learned from the Cleveland situation, but until he shows that he can take a team and win, he'll be questioned, and rightfully so.

The HC is there to win. That is really the only qualification that matters in the end.

Developing players is the job of assistants and coordinators.
Agree  
PaulN : 8/20/2019 4:53 pm : link
I know how disappointed I was with him and I am not at all convinced he is even mediocre. If this team does not win at least 7 games, would you keep him? Is winning 6 games with a happy lockerroom going to be acceptable now, it better not be.
As long as he has this team playing hard and improving  
idinkido : 8/20/2019 6:52 pm : link
he will be here next season. Giants see continuity as a must in Daniel Jones development. If the D falters again, then Bettcher will be on the hot seat, though I do think he will survive, too.
The only reason not to "count" his record in cleveland  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/20/2019 7:27 pm : link
would be out of some bizarre loyalty to the guy. Of course Cleveland counts. It's two years of his coaching career. It matters.

You take the circumstances into account, but he has a lot to prove. Whatever success he had in Minnesota only tells you that he's a very good coordinator. It's not the same thing as being a good head coach.
Why shouldn't we question it?  
HomerJones45 : 8/20/2019 7:49 pm : link
he's done nothing as a HC and even the OP has a hard time crediting him with much. We offed a good bit of the talent we had because he couldn't control the locker room. Foles has done ok without the great Shurmur's tutelage, the Minneapolis Miracle was more on the guy who missed the tackle and it appears Diggs and Thelien did more to make Shurmur than the other way around.

They will probably hang in there with this stiff because they would look like real buffoons getting rid of him quickly after the debacle with McAdoo but I am not getting my hopes up.
RE: The only reason not to  
Jay on the Island : 8/20/2019 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14537471 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
would be out of some bizarre loyalty to the guy. Of course Cleveland counts. It's two years of his coaching career. It matters.

You take the circumstances into account, but he has a lot to prove. Whatever success he had in Minnesota only tells you that he's a very good coordinator. It's not the same thing as being a good head coach.

He was in a no win situation in Cleveland. His starting QB's were Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brandon Weeden, and Thad Lewis. Now I am not suggesting he is a good HC but I am reserving judgement to see how he does over the next two years.

I was a fan of his hire because I expected the Giants to add a QB in round 1 last year and Shurmur has a proven track record of getting the most out of his QB's. Even if he isn't here for the long haul he will have a positive impact on Jones' development.
I like Shumur. He comes off as a pretty decent, personable guy.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/20/2019 8:46 pm : link
But that's not important. The only thing that really matters is winning. This is a business. As Kannell wrote, his HC record is awful. And he made some WTF? calls last year, like basically shelving Saquon in that Eagles game.

The jury is still out on him.
RE: RE: The only reason not to  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/20/2019 8:55 pm : link
In comment 14537534 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14537471 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


would be out of some bizarre loyalty to the guy. Of course Cleveland counts. It's two years of his coaching career. It matters.

You take the circumstances into account, but he has a lot to prove. Whatever success he had in Minnesota only tells you that he's a very good coordinator. It's not the same thing as being a good head coach.


He was in a no win situation in Cleveland. His starting QB's were Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brandon Weeden, and Thad Lewis. Now I am not suggesting he is a good HC but I am reserving judgement to see how he does over the next two years.


Nothing you're saying is out of line, but as head coach, he does bear some responsibility for the QBs on his roster. It's not like he was a bystander. The head coach plays a role in roster building, so on some level at minimum, these are the players he felt he could make the best of.
His ceiling is Andy Reid  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/20/2019 9:58 pm : link
Wiz at play calling and designing plays, milquetoast, not quite able to punch it through for a SB. And it doesn't seem likely he will be near that ceiling.

I would have preferred Vrabel who would have fit the Giants coaching mold better, gritty, outsized personality, and force of Will.

Some of you guys are ridiculous. Lombardi couldn't have won with  
yatqb : 8/20/2019 10:16 pm : link
the rosters he had either in Cleveland or NY. He is NOT what his record says he is. He's a coach who didn't get a chance to finish a rebuild in Cleveland (a team with a horrendous FO) and whose worth as a HC can only be fairly judged by this team's performance over the next few seasons.

I don't know if he's a top HC or not, but it's unfair imo to judge him by his record if considered in isolation.
Back to the Corner