Possibly The best baseball player of all time???
Now obvious this is a little premature. And he does have to do it for a decade or more. Getting into the playoffs would help too and get rid of the injury bug he seems to get once in awhile but...
But he is on pace for over 600 HRs, 1000 runs scored, 300 steals, hit around .300. He is going to win his 3rd MVP this year (should be closer to 5). His OPS and OPS+ are just ridiculous.
I think its time the conversation about him being the best ever get a tad bit warmer.
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In comment 14537359 SchindlersFist said:
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First, that statement is bullshit.
Second - if if it wasn't, look more closely at what Ruth did compared to everyone else during that era. Was anyone else even close to what he could do on the mound AND the plate. During his prime, he hit more home runs in several seasons by himself than 8-10 TEAMS did.
He was head and shoulders above not only everyone else during his ERA, but is rightfully considered one of - if not the - best of all time.
And Ottavino would definitely have not struck out Ruth "every time", lol. Would he have had some success? Sure - even the best players fail 7 of 10 times. But Ruth would have no doubt taken him yard a few times.
Ruth played in an era where players often had jobs in the offseason. Spring training was needed to literally get the players in shape. If he played today, he'd have the same access to training that everyone else did today- as someone above said, he'd look like Trout, etc.
Babe Ruth couldn't be a bench bat in the current major league
He'd be 124 years old, no shit he couldn't be a bench bat. He probably couldn't lift a bat.
Babe Ruth couldn't be a bench bat in the current major league
You're attacking a position I didn't take.
Can't speak for others, I mentioned Williams as in the conversation as greatest player of all time unrelated to your points about anything, but as a solid case that could be made based on his years lost to military service.
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I never once said Ted Williams is the greatest of all time. You guys are using it as an example of a player who had minimal playoff success/opportunity. You're attacking a candidate you brought up, not me. I don't think he's the greatest player of all time. So I don't know what you're trying to prove by bringing up Ted Williams.
Can't speak for others, I mentioned Williams as in the conversation as greatest player of all time unrelated to your points about anything, but as a solid case that could be made based on his years lost to military service.
Yep, I got you. But my position on Trout not sniffing playoff success eliminating from the convo somehow turned into me backing Williams, lol.
He's in the same category for me, to be honest. Hall of Famer. One of the greatest. But not the greatest.
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In comment 14538286 Mike in Long Beach said:
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I never once said Ted Williams is the greatest of all time. You guys are using it as an example of a player who had minimal playoff success/opportunity. You're attacking a candidate you brought up, not me. I don't think he's the greatest player of all time. So I don't know what you're trying to prove by bringing up Ted Williams.
Can't speak for others, I mentioned Williams as in the conversation as greatest player of all time unrelated to your points about anything, but as a solid case that could be made based on his years lost to military service.
Yep, I got you. But my position on Trout not sniffing playoff success eliminating from the convo somehow turned into me backing Williams, lol.
He's in the same category for me, to be honest. Hall of Famer. One of the greatest. But not the greatest.
I think the Mays comparison highlighted that even with Mays stellar D and the D contribution to his WAR that even if one day Trout might be/could be the greatest of all time he's got half a career left to prove it (or to prove otherwise).
Today it's wrong to say Trout is the greatest of all time.
I was a very young pup watching him in the '80s but what an absolute joy he was. Great power, great fielder, great arm, great athlete.
I tend to agree with this. Most dominant player I've seen in my lifetime in comparison to his peers and that includes Jordan and James. Look at some of his insane point totals, especially to the next closest players!
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Since the convo's shifted a little, Wayne Gretzky is the best player of all time in any of the four major sports, and it isn't close.
I tend to agree with this. Most dominant player I've seen in my lifetime in comparison to his peers and that includes Jordan and James. Look at some of his insane point totals, especially to the next closest players!
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Since the convo's shifted a little, Wayne Gretzky is the best player of all time in any of the four major sports, and it isn't close.
I tend to agree with this. Most dominant player I've seen in my lifetime in comparison to his peers and that includes Jordan and James. Look at some of his insane point totals, especially to the next closest players!
I think this is right.. if you take away every single goal he ever scored, he still has the most points in NHL history.
This one I know is right. What pair of brothers have the most combined points in NHL history? Why it's the Gretzky brothers! Wayne and Brett. Brett contributing 4 points to that total :)
If you add 40 fWAR to Williams he's #1.
But he didn't so it's all conjecture, but IMO that is a fair argument vs injury or other "what ifs".
I'm saying he's the best hitter of all-time, which has nothing to with cumulative numbers, although his are elite. The man had a 1.096 OPS at age 41 in his final season. He won the triple crown twice, 6 batting titles, drove in 159 runs in 155 games one year, and the last man to break .400 (and he did it with a .406 average). I think his resume as an overall hitter is the best of all-time.
Honestly, Babe is up there, but really it's about the K's for me that puts Williams over the top. Ruth struck out 12.5% of his PA's in his career, Williams only 7.4%. Translates to the Babe striking out once every 6.3 ABs, Williams once every 10.9 ABs. I know conventional wisdom is Babe is the best ever. Best power hitter, I'd agree. Best overall hitter ever? Just my .02 cents but I'm going with Williams.
Is this going to be the anti-Trout argument when in 50 years we have aliens and AI players in the league?
Please. It's always going to be Ruth because he was the perfect player at a critical time in the history of this game.
1957: Teddy: Mickey - 217 wRC+ — Ted Williams — 224 wRC+
Those are the career high hitting years for DiMaggio and Mantle and yet Teddy ballgame was a better or equal hitter for both. 17 years apart. 17.
I love the history of sports in America. The two dudes who stand out the most are Ruth and Bill Russell. The most transformational athletes in this country’s history. I am absolutely pissed at the way Bill Russell is treated. Give him 6 months today and he’d be the most impactful player in the NBA.
Babe Ruth redefined the way hitting is judged while also being a beast pitcher before that. He is the easy GOAT in terms of impact. He redefined the sport itself with his pure power and overall talent.
Ty Cobb was the best player of the original sport before Ruth destroyed it. Guys like Wagner and Hornsby were in the mix but Cobb was just perfection as a hitter for that era. While also being a speedy good CFer.
Mays has probably the best argument for baseball GOAT outside Ruth. In terms of 5-tool prowess, no one has ever been better. His combination of speed/power and peak/longevity is unreal. In an era where dark skinned players were actually allowed. His problem is mainly how Mickey Mantle had a better peak at the same time/position in the same city which makes it weird to call him GOAT.
Barry Bonds was a cheat code. But that’s because he cheated. Most dominant athlete I’ve seen but mainly because he cheated. He’s a GOAT candidate for sure and his steroid run was something else, but thats because he cheated Hard.
Cobb/Ruth/Mays/Bonds is the Mt. Rushmore of baseball.
Ted Williams would’ve made it 5 and lives up to the name of best hitter who ever lived. If he wasn’t an epic fighter pilot, he would be Bonds/Ruth level with less BS variables. He was a below average fielder/base-runner though, which makes it tough to call him the best ever.
Trout is the best player of the last 20-40 years. Better than Griffey or pre-roid Bonds or A-Rod or Schmidt/Pujols. He’s amazing. But he has a long way to go before this thread is actually worthy.